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Seymarr
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
0
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Posted - 2014.12.14 04:30:51 -
[1] - Quote
So, a friend and I were spitballing back and forth trying to figure out some way that (t1) battleships could make a comeback without being generally overpowered. The main problems preventing them from being in widespread use, as we identified them, were their very slow warp speed and their vulnerability to bombers. (Cost is a minor concern given insurability; the potential to use t3 cruisers nearly as powerful but much more agile may contribute, but is outside the scope of this idea.)
We agreed that, in general, the warpspeed change was necessary and proper, and the battleship will be and should be relegated primarily to stratop roles - as, in most other contexts, just about anything could choose to run rather than fight them given their low mobility, and that's the way it should be. However, they are highly vulnerable to bombing runs, especially given their slow acceleration into warp leaving them less able to warp out as an evasion tactic than most ships, and it's that weakness which this idea proposes to address.
The idea is a mini-siege similar in principle to the Marauder's Bastion Mode, but much more limited and purely defensively focused, allowing battleships fitted with the module to "hunker down" to attempt to survive incoming bombs rather than attempting to evade them. Mode would last either 30 or 60 seconds.
Positive effects: -Greatly reduce user's signature radius (1/2 to 1/4) -Possibly give a small resist bonus (something like 15-20%)
Negative effects: -Immobilize user -Substantial damage output reduction (probably a 50% rate-of-fire reduction, effect extending to deployed drones as well) -Possible: Disallow remote assistance (most notably, reps) - if it proved to be too powerful a "getting primaried, push buton" tool in general -Possible: Heavy capacitor drain from use
I am uncertain which slot this would go in, but likely a high slot would be appropriate, continuing the theme of "trade off damage for survivability", though this may unfairly favor battleships with utility highslots.
I'm sure this is somewhere on the axis between "why would anyone ever fit this" and "why would you possibly think this would be good for the game", but nonetheless felt like tossing it out there, as I had fun with the discussion that generated the idea. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
758
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Posted - 2014.12.14 04:42:43 -
[2] - Quote
Or you could stop beating around the bush and flat up ask for bomber nerfs. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome.
322
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Posted - 2014.12.14 07:50:32 -
[3] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPN3KTtrnZM#t=264 |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1913
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Posted - 2014.12.14 08:20:02 -
[4] - Quote
On the momber issue. Just make the bomb havea longer travel time before exploding. Give enough time for somethign be done.
But the battleshipsthemselves need some more oomph. THey lost 50% of their mobility and got NOTHING in return.
I still say they should get a 4th rig slot (they are large... there are more things taht you can pttimize in such a machine). THey should also get a small review on fittings. Battleships are the class the suffers the most on fittinng (specially CPU most of the time). THey are more simplistic and brute force than other classes so they should be a bit less triccky to fit. Several of them could get some 5% more CPU and PG.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
214
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Posted - 2014.12.14 09:53:08 -
[5] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:On the momber issue. Just make the bomb havea longer travel time before exploding. Give enough time for somethign be done.
But the battleshipsthemselves need some more oomph. THey lost 50% of their mobility and got NOTHING in return.
I still say they should get a 4th rig slot (they are large... there are more things taht you can pttimize in such a machine). THey should also get a small review on fittings. Battleships are the class the suffers the most on fittinng (specially CPU most of the time). THey are more simplistic and brute force than other classes so they should be a bit less triccky to fit. Several of them could get some 5% more CPU and PG.
Eh, they've already nerfed bomb travel time slightly, most bombers warp a little slower and have higher sig rads now. Too much would make them useless against smaller subcaps. The only thing I think that you could really do with bombs themselves is to make their damage scale in a weak logarithmic fashion with increasing signature radius so that there's a diminishing return on increased damage with larger sig rad or some other change to the scaling relationship.
It's more than just bombs though and honestly, and not considering battleships, I think bombers are pretty close to being in a fine place, with only a few tweaks needed. Battleships were in decline before the warp speed changes, taking big hits with the introduction of t3s, HAC rebalance, medium long range weapon rebalance, and paradoxically the nerfs to the drake and the hurricane, which took away a widespread and viable target for battleships.
It goes down to every attribute of the hulls and how ship stats are budgeted. James Baboli has a great thread with a list of potential changes here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=383678&find=unread
Please read the thread, the recommendations, and add your commentary. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
153
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Posted - 2014.12.14 10:13:07 -
[6] - Quote
Seymarr wrote: trying to figure out some way that (t1) battleships could make a comeback without being generally overpowered.
Come back? Are you serious? There are still a lot of players who fly t1 battleships since they can't afford a t2 or faction... I believe they are fine as they are... Besides... For us players with more SP, they are cheap and expendable.
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
123
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Posted - 2014.12.14 10:57:33 -
[7] - Quote
I believe the OP was talking "in pvp" i mean barring Baltec fleet and Rooks and kings Goldfleet/pipebombing endeavors i wouldnt know of a single big pvp docterine...
And ALL of those examples might be hilariously out of date and buried under a thick layer of slippery petes assorted ishtars and tracking dreadnaughts (and the occasional bomber) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14210
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Posted - 2014.12.14 11:05:14 -
[8] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:I believe the OP was talking "in pvp" i mean barring Baltec fleet and Rooks and kings Goldfleet/pipebombing endeavors i wouldnt know of a single big pvp docterine...
And ALL of those examples might be hilariously out of date and buried under a thick layer of slippery petes assorted ishtars and tracking dreadnaughts (and the occasional bomber)
Domi fleet.
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Seymarr
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
0
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Posted - 2014.12.14 17:47:10 -
[9] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Or you could stop beating around the bush and flat up ask for bomber nerfs.
Mostly I just want it to be a bit more targeted - making bombers less effective against battleships without making them useless against other compositions. (The possible counterpoint, of course, being "then what do you want bombers to counter" - dunking ABCs is nice and all, but...) |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
218
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Posted - 2014.12.14 20:40:52 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:FireFrenzy wrote:I believe the OP was talking "in pvp" i mean barring Baltec fleet and Rooks and kings Goldfleet/pipebombing endeavors i wouldnt know of a single big pvp docterine...
And ALL of those examples might be hilariously out of date and buried under a thick layer of slippery petes assorted ishtars and tracking dreadnaughts (and the occasional bomber) Domi fleet.
Fatfleet is getting dropped by Brave in favor of tengus because of petes and bombs. |
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