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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 56 post(s) |
Noriko Mai
1670
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:30:57 -
[31] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:[..]How will my session changes work under such load? Will I black screen until all assets are fetched from CCP's CDN? What happens when a ship warps on grid and I don't have the asset for that ship already fetched? Will my client freeze until it is loaded?[..] At the moment everything just black screens if it isn't downloaded already. Really confusing.
Please at least add a loading wheel or something. |
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CCP Maxwell
C C P C C P Alliance
32
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:31:47 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Maxwell wrote:Noriko Mai wrote:CCP Maxwell wrote:Agent Known wrote:Just ran through the install and it does appear to go under %Appdata% ...so C:\Users\user\Appdata\Local\CCP.
Edit: Also, it's configured in the Launcher settings to be under C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\SharedCache ...so it can be changed. Those would likely be the usual client settings. Not the resources. Have you tried looking into C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\SharedCache ? Can you please leave your dirty fingers from my filesystem. Stay where I allow you to through the install path! Ummmm......Sure.
Although, I will admit that setting the cache-path is not yet in the installer. It can be set in the launcher settings.
CCP Maxwell - QA Engineer - Team RnB
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drummendejef maaktnietuit
Active Fusion
10
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:32:14 -
[33] - Quote
Quote:If you prefer, we will of course also have the option of downloading all resources beforehand.
Yes please |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
555
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:33:02 -
[34] - Quote
Agent Known wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:CCP Maxwell wrote:Those would likely be the usual client settings. Not the resources. Have you tried looking into C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\SharedCache ? Why not in actual game folder by default? Before you edit this setting first time, launcher already downloading cache to ProgramData and then leaves thousands of empty directories there. This is probably because the client will share this cache with others installs of the same client (hence SharedCache). This also means those who test on Singularity won't have to download and patch the entire client twice ...at least, that's what I'm thinking. Not quite sure how it would handle that. Correct - these resources will be shared between EVE installations, making for easier setup for test servers. EVE Probe will also share that same folder.
Before we release this on TQ the choice of where to put this folder will be done in the installer, for players installing for the first time. If this hasn't been set (as will be the case for existing players) the launcher will prompt you before it downloads anything. We didn't want to postpone initial public testing while waiting for those installer/launcher changes, so bear with us for now.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
81
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:33:27 -
[35] - Quote
I am an absolute idiot in this conversation as I just open my game and play it. So from what I hear:
I won't notice anything, save a bit longer load time when I click on that fancy new destroyer and zoom in on it to see it.
I have the "option" to keep things moving the "old" way, if I can figure out a bit of Tech Savvy (/me looks for his tech savvy skillbook)
If I can't get my tech savviness up to the appropriate level, I'll be stuck (for good or bad) with this new system.
My question:
Is this an every-time-I-launch-the-game sort of thing? Like will i need to DL these resources over and over each play session? Each patch? Each Update?
Cedric
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
555
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:34:32 -
[36] - Quote
Noriko Mai wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:[..]How will my session changes work under such load? Will I black screen until all assets are fetched from CCP's CDN? What happens when a ship warps on grid and I don't have the asset for that ship already fetched? Will my client freeze until it is loaded?[..] At the moment everything just black screens if it isn't downloaded already. Really confusing. Please at least add a loading wheel or something. Where are you getting a black screen? That should not happen, and is not what we've seen in our testing.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
555
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:34:58 -
[37] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Will we get an option to force the full download so we don't have to rely on any streaming of data on demand as you can bet it will try to download something just as you are about to blow something up? Yes.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
129
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:35:04 -
[38] - Quote
Is this somehow connected to the down time less server model?
The UI is still bad.
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Noriko Mai
1670
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:36:45 -
[39] - Quote
drummendejef maaktnietuit wrote:Quote:If you prefer, we will of course also have the option of downloading all resources beforehand. Yes please It's already implemented. Launcher should force a restart because activating it and saving the settings leaves the user there with a "Client is ready" message and nothing happens. |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
555
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:37:35 -
[40] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:CCP Maxwell wrote:Those would likely be the usual client settings. Not the resources. Have you tried looking into C:\ProgramData\CCP\EVE\SharedCache ? Why not in actual game folder by default? Before you edit this setting first time, launcher already downloading cache to ProgramData and then leaves thousands of empty directories there. The default installation folder is under Program Files - Windows does not like you writing to that folder outside of an installer.
We will improve the process in the launcher before releasing this on TQ so that you will always have a way of setting the cache folder location before we download anything. This is just the first public test of the feature in the game itself - not the final version.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Alundil
Isogen 5
791
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:37:55 -
[41] - Quote
What nefarious uses can (and will) this be put too? Scenario: Want to know what's in a neighboring wh system. Exit Eve client. Clear cache on scouts account. Login and load wh system. Analyze the files downloaded on demand for currently connected systems. Intel?
How will the prefetching handle bridging? Scenario: New player joined a "titan-owning" corp/alliance. Is told to join fleet and warp to a POS for Titan bridge. Takes titan bridge to a system he's never been to before. Will he die while resources are loading for what's in that system and surrounding systems?
These types of things, I think, could hinder adoption of this deployment methodology.
I'm right behind you
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Noriko Mai
1670
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:38:16 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Snorlax wrote:Noriko Mai wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:[..]How will my session changes work under such load? Will I black screen until all assets are fetched from CCP's CDN? What happens when a ship warps on grid and I don't have the asset for that ship already fetched? Will my client freeze until it is loaded?[..] At the moment everything just black screens if it isn't downloaded already. Really confusing. Please at least add a loading wheel or something. Where are you getting a black screen? That should not happen, and is not what we've seen in our testing. Docking to a station (for the first time) gives me a unusual long black screen. Leading Preview mode give a black Preview window for ~2 seconds. |
Aliventi
Hard Knocks Inc.
789
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:40:03 -
[43] - Quote
Since you are looking at downloading... an issue that people have with the launcher is that if you have a poor connection, that disconnects fairly often, every time your internet connection dies you have to restart any download. Which is really... when you have a multigig release update you are downloading and your internet connection decides to die. Is there a way to fix the launcher so that when you reconnect it continues downloading or will this new system fix that? |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
555
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:41:32 -
[44] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:I am an absolute idiot in this conversation as I just open my game and play it. So from what I hear:
I won't notice anything, save a bit longer load time when I click on that fancy new destroyer and zoom in on it to see it.
I have the "option" to keep things moving the "old" way, if I can figure out a bit of Tech Savvy (/me looks for his tech savvy skillbook)
If I can't get my tech savviness up to the appropriate level, I'll be stuck (for good or bad) with this new system.
My question:
Is this an every-time-I-launch-the-game sort of thing? Like will i need to DL these resources over and over each play session? Each patch? Each Update?
Any resource the game downloads will be cached locally on disk, so no, it will only download it once. It only downloads it again if it changes.
The goal is that the average player, tech savvy or not, will not really notice a difference, except you were quicker into the game when setting up for the first time, or after a patch. What might have taken hours before, may now take minutes.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
555
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:44:19 -
[45] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:Since you are looking at downloading... an issue that people have with the launcher is that if you have a poor connection, that disconnects fairly often, every time your internet connection dies you have to restart any download. Which is really... when you have a multigig release update you are downloading and your internet connection decides to die. Is there a way to fix the launcher so that when you reconnect it continues downloading or will this new system fix that? Our hope is that this new scheme will alleviate many of those problems. We're no longer downloading huge patch files - the patches will be much smaller, increasing the success rate of downloads.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
44
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:46:17 -
[46] - Quote
Is this a step towards those HD textures mentioned a while back or have you stuffed that in the 'shiny but never' pile? |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
246
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:46:40 -
[47] - Quote
You quite know a way to make me renew subscription.
What about people who don't want to use launcher?
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
---áHarlan Ellison
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Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
81
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:47:39 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Snorlax wrote:Dr Cedric wrote:I am an absolute idiot in this conversation as I just open my game and play it. So from what I hear:
I won't notice anything, save a bit longer load time when I click on that fancy new destroyer and zoom in on it to see it.
I have the "option" to keep things moving the "old" way, if I can figure out a bit of Tech Savvy (/me looks for his tech savvy skillbook)
If I can't get my tech savviness up to the appropriate level, I'll be stuck (for good or bad) with this new system.
My question:
Is this an every-time-I-launch-the-game sort of thing? Like will i need to DL these resources over and over each play session? Each patch? Each Update?
Any resource the game downloads will be cached locally on disk, so no, it will only download it once. It only downloads it again if it changes. The goal is that the average player, tech savvy or not, will not really notice a difference, except you were quicker into the game when setting up for the first time, or after a patch. What might have taken hours before, may now take minutes.
First Dev Quote! Yay!
A follow-up question then:
If an update/patch is released, and there are things that aren't touched (like the way a can looks floating in space) then that thing hasn't changed and should need to be updated, right? Is this the way it has been in the past, only things that are new are DL'ed then installed, or is everything "copy and replaced" with the newest patch files.
Another other question:
Could this lead to on-the-fly patches? Lets say there is a problem with a ship model looking wonky. Could you (the Devs) put an updated file on the server to fix the issue, and the next time I look at the wonky ship, its magically fixed?
Another other other question:
What if there is a problem with a file, and it just so happens that a player never interacts with whatever asset that file is associated with. Wouldn't that player technically be playing with a broken client, just never looking at the broken part?
Cedric
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
556
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:50:37 -
[49] - Quote
Rainus Max wrote:Is this a step towards those HD textures mentioned a while back or have you stuffed that in the 'shiny but never' pile? Let's just say that this gives us a way to implement that feature.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
246
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:52:09 -
[50] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:Another other question:
Could this lead to on-the-fly patches? Lets say there is a problem with a ship model looking wonky. Could you (the Devs) put an updated file on the server to fix the issue, and the next time I look at the wonky ship, its magically fixed?
Assuming the cache is implemented properly, this kind of patching wil be likely possible.
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
---áHarlan Ellison
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Sarmatiko
1654
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:53:40 -
[51] - Quote
I just don't like sixty thousands files and directories with random hash-like names in file system. What I think about could be described as "fragmentation hell". Maybe there is a simple way to group all those in a single uncompressed file (virtual file system) like in other games with DoD like .dat in Guild Wars, for example?
Anyway DoD is a great achievement. Good work! |
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
557
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:56:37 -
[52] - Quote
Alundil wrote:What nefarious uses can (and will) this be put too? Scenario: Want to know what's in a neighboring wh system. Exit Eve client. Clear cache on scouts account. Login and load wh system. Analyze the files downloaded on demand for currently connected systems. Intel?
How will the prefetching handle bridging? Scenario: New player joined a "titan-owning" corp/alliance. Is told to join fleet and warp to a POS for Titan bridge. Takes titan bridge to a system he's never been to before. Will he die while resources are loading for what's in that system and surrounding systems?
These types of things, I think, could hinder adoption of this deployment methodology. Prefetching for neighboring systems only looks at static data that the client already has. This means what stations, stargates, planets, moons, etc. are in the systems. We do not get any extra information, whatsoever, from the server to decide what do download beforehand. So sorry, no help there for your nefarious purposes.
Within a few minutes of gameplay the client will have downloaded low-detail models for everything - all ships, stations, stargates, etc. so you will never enter space and not see anything. Besides, the overview and brackets will always show up immediately.
And finally, if anyone has concerns over not seeing things right away due to downloading, have the launcher download everything before entering the game. That option will always be available.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4031
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:59:47 -
[53] - Quote
Great - looking forward to it. Now when can we get hi-res textures as a downloadable option?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2963
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:00:01 -
[54] - Quote
I already can see the sh!tstorm of whine threads that will happen on GD. Like all launcher whine x 100.
But I like the change especially if that will allow to bring some other more awesome features sooner or easier or preferably both :)
Invalid signature format
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
557
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:02:46 -
[55] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:I just don't like sixty thousand files and directories with random hash-like names in file system. What I think about could be described as "fragmentation hell". Maybe there is a simple way to group all those in a single uncompressed file (virtual file system) like in other games with DoD like .dat in Guild Wars, for example?
Anyway DoD is a great achievement. Good work! Just think of the SharedCache folder as a virtual file system for EVE :)
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
246
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:12:12 -
[56] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:I just don't like sixty thousands files and directories with random hash-like names in file system. What I think about could be described as "fragmentation hell". Maybe there is a simple way to group all those in a single uncompressed file (virtual file system) like in other games with DoD like .dat in Guild Wars, for example?
Anyway DoD is a great achievement. Good work! The .stuff files are exactly that, an uncompressed "flat" archives. This, however, has nothing to do with fragmentation, large files fragment as much as smaller. The space used (rather, space wasted) and access times for many small files versus one big linear archive, however, is a concern. Especially for a thousand of very small (under 4k) files. MFT$ could grow enormously and will be more prone to loss of data on system crashes, as small files are stored directly in MFT.
How I see this, it can be implemented in two ways. A large .stuff file and unpacked amendments for chnaged stuff. At some regular intervals, the amendments are incorporated into archive for easier access. This will let you have an "archived" retail client and a bunch of amendments for test server client, which will be incorporated into archives at release date (for example).
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
---áHarlan Ellison
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
246
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:13:23 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Snorlax wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:I just don't like sixty thousand files and directories with random hash-like names in file system. What I think about could be described as "fragmentation hell". Maybe there is a simple way to group all those in a single uncompressed file (virtual file system) like in other games with DoD like .dat in Guild Wars, for example?
Anyway DoD is a great achievement. Good work! Just think of the SharedCache folder as a virtual file system for EVE :) I don't need to think about it. I know how it works on a filesystem level. And did you ignored my question about laucher, or don't know the answer?
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
---áHarlan Ellison
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CCP Snorlax
C C P C C P Alliance
559
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:17:03 -
[58] - Quote
Tonto Auri wrote:You quite know a way to make me renew subscription.
What about people who don't want to use launcher? Nothing changes, really. The launcher still does the patching of the binaries so you will still need it for that.
The launcher does prefetch some files to improve the startup time of the client, like shaders and basic UI resources but the client will always go and fetch any file it needs if hasn't been cached already.
CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
246
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:24:29 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Snorlax wrote:Tonto Auri wrote:You quite know a way to make me renew subscription.
What about people who don't want to use launcher? Nothing changes, really. The launcher still does the patching of the binaries so you will still need it for that. The launcher does prefetch some files to improve the startup time of the client, like shaders and basic UI resources but the client will always go and fetch any file it needs if hasn't been cached already. Thank you for clarification. The launcher is just an unbearable burden, basically doubling the startup time, if not more. I don't want to have any sex with it any more than absolutely necessary.
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
---áHarlan Ellison
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Karbowiak
4M-CORP Black Legion.
193
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Posted - 2014.12.16 17:31:34 -
[60] - Quote
Please for all that is holy, tell us that you've switched to a proper CDN, that doesn't eat **** and die everytime we try and download anything from it.
Please?! |
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