Will only be meaningful on WH and maybe FW sites. Every other activity already relies in local 10 times more than in DSCAN.



Unfortunately the sensors mechanics in this game are too simplistic. The directional scanner should never be absolute. It should always have a chance of detecting something, and each ship would be a different chance, based on their signature againdt he scanning sensor strenght. Then would be easier and more balanced to just give a BONUS to the combat recons on that.

This also would create a good reason to keep a fleet small, because less hips woudl mean less likely to be detected. But we are stuck with a primitive and oversimplistic mechanic.

I don't understand all the complaints about the d-scan thing. How is this different in principle to the covert ops cloak? It 'breaks' just as many things as d-scan immunity does. But then I've always thought that there should be a specific probe to detect (if not necessarily resolve) cloaked ships.

And how exactly inflation and ISK faucets affect availability of long-present things that are built with materials?
Please.

:shrug: Don't sit at zero on the beacon. You will see them as soon as they land on grid.

Perfect intel is bad, just like perfect stealth is bad.

By availability I mean scarcity or abundance, which directly affects price. If you want them to be rarely used due to price, you must change something in material / effort cost to make them. Tweaking ISK printing volumes will not affect that in the slightest in the long run. Prices will just adjust accordingly if you do, both ISK/PLEX and ISK/T3 ones, if you're so concerned about real money equivalents.

In short, the reason you see a lot of T3s is because a lot of T3s are built. Without production factor you can have all ISK in the world and still be unable to buy them to the extent that you "overuse them". If they aren't as much more expensive than T2s and other K-space produced ships as you think they should be, then it's because it doesn't take that much more effort to build them relatively to T2s and Co, at least not enough for their price to be sky-high. Again, all is relative because T3s aren't exactly cheap and easy to build.

What happens today when you dscan a plex, find a ship that 'would be a good fight', warp in, get scrammed and webbed, then his buddy uncloaks in [insert powerful ship here]? Or a bunch of his buddies enter system and warp to you?

What's the difference? The small chance you have today of getting away in that situation while the nasty people have targeting delay or are warping to you?


But then again, this will only apply to medium fw plexes. Recons are too fat for novices and smalls, and you can easily check out larges by warping in @100.


So quit whining and just be more careful in medium plexes. Please note that it's ALWAYS about the PLAYERS, not about the ships: you'll NEVER get a 'good fight' anyway out of the kind of player that would sit in a d-scan invisible recon in a medium plex just to blap unsuspecting T1 frigs...

Yes, people are risk averse, they want to make good decisions when they're taking risks and that often leads being conservative. That's exactly why I like this kind of mechanic. People want to do the fun thing and take more engagements, but when they have enough information to know that they aren't the favorite they shy away from fighting. However, when some information is obscured they become optimistic and take more risks. I've seen players so willing to make decisions that are likely too risky simply because they lack perfect information. Jumping into gate camps where positional information isn't guaranteed, engaging on stations with people docked, fighting in systems with more in local than can be accounted for, etc. These mechanics that obscure information give people the excuses needed to take risks. Take the example given somewhere in this thread of a low sec camp with 2 Vexors and 2 Rooks. Before these changes, the gang considering fighting them never would because they know they can't deal with the Rooks. After, they won't see them and so they will probably engage. That's more fights because people are risk averse.

Would behave like a cloak, with none of the disadvantages, and still make combat recons more appealing. I know they're one of the least flown ships in game, after EAFs. Would be nice to see them get some mclovins. After all, other than a curse, when was the last time you saw one in space?

I am not sure why the dscan immunity is such a big deal. Instead of a Rapier, now i have a reason to fly a Hugin. What case does dscan change having a gang on a plex cloaked vers dscan immune? seriously whats the difference?

And in WHs who the hell is flying around without a cloakie. We just don't fly non cloaks most of the time. I sure as hell aren't going to waste time ratting sleepers in anything smaller than a t3. It would just be far too slow.

So now you will have to be smarter, do something else, bring friends, and adapt.

No where does CCP say "you will be able to do the same thing the same way for ever". While not all change is good, some change has to happen for a game to stay vital and interesting. If having to change tactics pushes you out of your comfort zone, the problem isn't the change, it's the fact that you allowed yourself to have a comfort zone in a competative game in the 1st place.

Not inside the plex, on the acceleration gate. Where we put our camps.

So low sec only has gates and plexes, it doesn't have moons, planets, a star and billions of kilometers of space between those things. Hell someone call CCP and tell them low sec is broken lol.

This post is an example of a person rationalizing why their comfort zone MUST exist. People do this to convince themselves that they don't need to adapt because "there is only one reasnable way anyways, so I can't adapt even if I wanted to".

D-scan immunity changes very little. It costs very little on many ships to lnclude a scan probe launcher that lets you detect ANY uncloaked ship.

If d-scan immunity is so dangerous, how then do you deal with covert cloaked ships for which not amount of combat probes will help you.

I think it was you who said that the cloaked ship has to decloak BEFORE you get in the plex, right? Well, if you have scan probes out where he can see them, nothing changes at all.

Hell, you don't even have to scan, jsut launching the probes andhainvg them out where a Combat Recon pilot can see them on d-scan would cause enough psycoligical unertainty to give you an advantage. You and others would be able to think of these things if you weren't too invested in the status quo.

Thats the smarmiest argument for a bait and switch scam ive heard today.

CCP builds a game then changes a core rule and fanboys expect people not to question it lol.

I personally suggest Elite Dangerous instead.

Besides, how in the name of Zeus does this "kill solo"?

It buffs solo a fair bit, since you can hunt people wtih Combat Recons now, with some actual potency. Hunting ratters for example just got a lot easier, ditto hunting wormhole bears.

Two of those things almost certainly should not exist.

Viable recons almost certainly should.



There are several. You just reject them because you think refusing to play an MMO with other people somehow makes you better than other people.



See the above.



Yeah, actually there is. It's just "cloak lite", giving you similar functionality while in warp but not on grid. The only major benefit is in fitting, which really doesn't mean much since most ships that fit cloaks do so with a fitting bonus anyway.

It came along fine once I installed a "I am not the only person flying" module ie a friend in a ship with combat probes.

Or did I miss the memo from CCP that said you can do everything you want with 1 frigate sized ship and be safe from advanced CRUISERS like Combat Recons?

Devils usually flies less than a dozen people. In our "stream snipe" of Lazarus Telraven the other day, we flew a smaller handful of pilots.

We somehow manage to have scouts and eyes where we need them with little trouble.

But all of your "I shouldn't have to" just exposes how fat and comfortable you've gotten with d-scan providing such perfect intel. Something comes along that bypasses that otherwise perfect trick, and you lot lose your freaking minds.

What is wrong with your attitude? All I can think of for these ships is how much fun I will have hunting people in a Curse.

With the slight exception of cloak delay, a cov ops cloak is still the superior of the two mechanics.

But let's not even pretend that you're here trying to look out for the cloaked recons. You're here to protect your niche from something that you think might rattle it some, simple as that.

I have constructive input.

CCP Rise, these are excellent changes, please do not bow to pressure from groups who are trying to argue their own self interest coming before proper ship balancing.

The end.

So you'd totally engage a Zealot fleet with a bunch of Thoraxes?

Kmelx, I stopped reading when you made a claim that e-honor should come before ship balancing.

Do you have a TL;DR for that post?

First of all, and coming from me it's especially damning, that is a massive run-on sentence.

Secondly, you seem to act like scouts are some big gigantic unreasonable weight around your neck or something.

Thirdly, what in the Burning Hells is a "coolbro", anyway?

I have constructive input.

CCP Rise, these are excellent changes, please do not bow to pressure from groups who are trying to argue their own self interest coming before proper ship balancing.

The end.

No, I'm arguing for this because I actually want to fly these ships. They are cool as hell, and they've been pretty badly unviable for a long damned time now.

Changes that improve them to be useful and viable are a positive. Being off of d-scan is unique, useful, and opens up a whole new dimension of combat in the game.

And I truly don't care if said changes upset your little birdcage.




You first.

Says the guy arguing that his desire to not have scouts in his fleet should dictate game balance?

How is that? I'm just countering your assertions.

Claiming that the changes are bad because you can't be asked to bring probes is what's really not constructive here.





Plenty of people make it work. Your failings don't reflect on ship balance.

We use remote sebo instalockers... solo players never get away.

Ok, dock up and buy a T1 frigate and Expanded launcher whenever you need one... single character solution solved. Or you could use the alt and save yourself time and money, which is what I would do. Not to mention it's quicker to just switch characters and probe and switch back. I do stuff like this all the time when it would be useful to have a second account.

The issue with needing an alt revolves around paying for an additional account so you can have both characters online at the same time. I'm telling you how to avoid that. If you can't handle "Quit Game, Click Play on already authenticated launcher, Use Alt" then nobody can help you. Use the resources that are available to you, or don't, but that doesn't mean they aren't available.

I hope CCP doesn't cave on a great new step in getting rid of perfect intel due to a bunch of players unwilling to adapt to such changes.
Most of what has made Eve strong is the constant re-invention of the game. Don't lose sight of that.

Oh yeah; adapt or cry in your bear threatening to unsub, only to adapt later once you realize your threatening to unsub has been used more than "crying wolf" and has lost its apparent effect.

As a true solo player