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Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:28:01 -
[1] - Quote
My idea is to allow Covert cyno activation in complexes which also are availble to black ops's themselves.
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Esmanpir
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
12
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:41:36 -
[2] - Quote
No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players. |
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:52:26 -
[3] - Quote
Esmanpir wrote:No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.
Compex PVE is too safe, to be honest |
Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
142
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Posted - 2014.12.22 13:58:24 -
[4] - Quote
with the iminant recon changes. those plexes are about to get a whole lot harder. so thats a no from me |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
852
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Posted - 2014.12.22 14:40:56 -
[5] - Quote
Dark Drifter wrote:with the iminant recon changes. those plexes are about to get a whole lot harder. so thats a no from me
QFT |
Shivanthar
154
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Posted - 2014.12.22 15:19:56 -
[6] - Quote
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:Esmanpir wrote:No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players. Compex PVE is too safe, to be honest
Is warping through acceleration gates too hard?
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
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Iain Cariaba
802
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Posted - 2014.12.22 16:22:18 -
[7] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Pelle Wittewoa wrote:Esmanpir wrote:No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players. Compex PVE is too safe, to be honest Is warping through acceleration gates too hard? OP is just mad that he can't hotdrop his blops on a mazegu, but that he actually has to use the blops' warp drive.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.12.23 12:23:44 -
[8] - Quote
More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations. |
Shivanthar
159
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Posted - 2014.12.23 12:52:54 -
[9] - Quote
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.
Considering all the fit sums of the predators are less than the preys and considering prey is in struggle with multiple npcs, possible neut pressure, cap management, ewar, range and prop/damage mod management, yeah, this gives at least some well-deserved time to open eyes. Not to mention clicking that precious d-scan could be forgotten easily within that much stuff going on.
I don't want to mean he should be immune. But the thing is you're catching a mistake, not the ship/or pilot in reality. But did you know that once I got tackled in low-sec with my TFI by an interceptor while on low-sec mission. I got so excited and my heart was racing so hard that my "save-me" button was in front of me going unnoticed while I was suddenly covered by multiple predators. Guess what, I left my d-scan on "use overview settings" and my overview was showing wrecks only so I didn't see those coming.
Finally I pushed my mjd button and thankfully it worked, I slipped away from the disrupt tackle, that was predators' mistake at their part. But I can say that that was a fun struggle for a full of ~30 seconds :P
So, yeah, you're catching mistakes and they can be made no matter what ;)
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
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Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.12.23 13:55:03 -
[10] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Pelle Wittewoa wrote:More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations. Considering all the fit sums of the predators are less than the preys and considering prey is in struggle with multiple npcs, possible neut pressure, cap management, ewar, range and prop/damage mod management, yeah, this gives at least some well-deserved time to open eyes. Not to mention clicking that precious d-scan could be forgotten easily within that much stuff going on. I don't want to mean he should be immune. But the thing is you're catching a mistake, not the ship/or pilot in reality. Did you know that once I got tackled by an interceptor while in low-sec l4 mission with my TFI. I got so excited and my heart was racing so hard that my "save-me" button was in front of me going unnoticed while I was suddenly covered by multiple predators. Guess what, I left my d-scan on "use overview settings" and my overview was showing wrecks only so I didn't see those coming. Finally I pushed my mjd button and thankfully it worked, I slipped away from the disrupt tackle, that was predators' mistake at their part. But I can say that that was a fun struggle for a full of ~30 seconds :P So, yeah, you're catching mistakes and they can be made no matter what ;) Consider lowering your visible signature as a predator. Probe skillfully fast and don't use that cyno. Use covert cyno instead. Have a ceptor/hic planned to seem like a neut in system hours before. Create setup, wait for prey and catch it. This is generally what is going on nearly on all ratting titans. Why not catch smaller fish in the same manner?
Where are your talking about? Have you ever been on a "predator side" yourselve? Mostly, if not always, people fit their ship vs the plexes. So that argument of "having no time to open eyes" is kinda flawed Basicly you are saying; a pve'r should always be safe unless he makes a mistake. I disageee, there should be a balance, as in the anomalies. Your sugestion to catch escalation plexers with neuts hic/dic alts is also not making sence at all. You still need to probe it, cyno in, warp to gate, get in plex ect ect vicem still has 10 minuts to get safe.
You are obvius talking from out a low sec perspective. I am more talking from a null sec perspective. Maybe it is a good ide to differentiate the idea accourdingly! |
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Shivanthar
159
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Posted - 2014.12.23 14:09:01 -
[11] - Quote
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:Where are your talking about? Have you ever been on a "predator side" yourselve? Mostly, if not always, people fit their ship vs the plexes. So that argument of "having no time to open eyes" is kinda flawed Basicly you are saying; a pve'r should always be safe unless he makes a mistake. I disageee, there should be a balance, as in the anomalies. Your sugestion to catch escalation plexers with neuts hic/dic alts is also not making sence at all. You still need to probe it, cyno in, warp to gate, get in plex ect ect vicem still has 10 minuts to get safe. You are obvius talking from out a low sec perspective. I am more talking from a null sec perspective. Maybe it is a good ide to differentiate the idea accourdingly!
Whoops! I didn't expect this much disagreement.
Don't underestimate me my friend. Yes, I've been at the predator side myself. Do you practice probing missioners? The ones I was talking about found me within less than two minutes. You say 10 minutes! OMG, there must be definitely a mistake.
Sometimes, just for fun, I take out my cheetah and try to find a missioner when I get my safe spot. I've set my own records. Do you do the same?
I'm stuck and lost my mind at 10 minutes mark. You're very very unsuccesful at probing my friend. No hard feelings, but that needs to be definitely improved.
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
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Iain Cariaba
812
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Posted - 2014.12.23 19:29:40 -
[12] - Quote
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations. if it takes you 10 minutes to probe me down, you fail at probing and need to either practice more, or find another way to get targets.
I only do occasional pvp combat probing, and I can get a target probed down in way under 10 minutes, usually in a bit over 2 minutes if I don't already know where they're located. If I have a rough idea where to look, I can get a lock under a minute.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.01.09 10:08:09 -
[13] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Pelle Wittewoa wrote:More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations. if it takes you 10 minutes to probe me down, you fail at probing and need to either practice more, or find another way to get targets. I only do occasional pvp combat probing, and I can get a target probed down in way under 10 minutes, usually in a bit over 2 minutes if I don't already know where they're located. If I have a rough idea where to look, I can get a lock under a minute.
I think you mistinterpertate the probing part. The secret lies in the "give or take" part. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1115
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Posted - 2015.01.09 11:03:23 -
[14] - Quote
And where's the problem? Flush them out of the Plex:
to a POS that you have scouted before or Station and put up a bubble in line with the Plex. You get him. to a Safe Spot and then you can combat probe him. You get him with skills. |
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:23:08 -
[15] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:And where's the problem? Flush them out of the Plex:
to a POS that you have scouted before or Station and put up a bubble in line with the Plex. You get him. to a Safe Spot and then you can combat probe him. You get him with skills.
If he undocks he sees bubble right or at pos... Or are your thinking of dictors with cov cyno's?
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
301
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:50:21 -
[16] - Quote
The combat recon d-scan invisibility will change things a bit, and in theory makes it possible to catch a plexer. Which currently is impossible because of the gates.
However, cynoing a blops into a site could still be interesting also for the plexers, there are some Overseers that require quite a bit of dps and dropping a gank Sin on those would make things go faster.
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Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.01.09 18:55:25 -
[17] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:
However, cynoing a blops into a site could still be interesting also for the plexers, there are some Overseers that require quite a bit of dps and dropping a gank Sin on those would make things go faster.
Wouldnt it be alot more faster to finish the plex if the extra character is doing pve pew pew in that plex all the time?
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Trii Seo
703
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Posted - 2015.01.09 19:03:22 -
[18] - Quote
"In theory"
It's all nice in theory until you realize that all they need to do is pull range from the beacon. MJD 100km in a BS? Burn in an Ishtar?
The beacon decloaks, too - have to be really lucky to land in a way that it doesn't (or manage to burn off and recloak before the rats lock you, then cloak)
Not sure if covert cynos in deadspace would solve much, but they wouldn't break much to be honest - it's not like you can squeeze a capital through into a complex that theoretically shouldn't have one.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
426
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Posted - 2015.01.09 19:04:48 -
[19] - Quote
Esmanpir wrote:No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.
you understand PvE is only there to drive PvP right |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1049
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Posted - 2015.01.09 19:09:26 -
[20] - Quote
Nope i disagree. Use combat recons with DSCAN immunity. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7037
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Posted - 2015.01.09 19:11:47 -
[21] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Don't underestimate me my friend. Yes, I've been at the predator side myself. Do you practice probing missioners? The ones I was talking about found me within less than two minutes. You say 10 minutes! OMG, there must be definitely a mistake.
Sometimes, just for fun, I take out my cheetah and try to find a missioner when I get my safe spot. I've set my own records. Do you do the same?
I'm stuck and lost my mind at 10 minutes mark. You're very very unsuccesful at probing my friend. No hard feelings, but that needs to be definitely improved. Bear in mind that Local chat is a HUGE factor in null-sec. As soon as someone "not blue" appears in Local chat every non-PvP person will immediately begin to scurry away and hide.
Generally speaking (and from my own experience), once you enter a 0.0 system you have less than 10 to 20 seconds (if that) to find a target and pin it down before everyone notices you are in system and run. Of course... this is also assuming that you were not reported in every intel channel beforehand and/or the PvEers/Miners are not scrammed by an NPC. PvP roamers have to get VERY lucky and/or encounter and very unaware target to score a good kill in 0.0.
In low-sec, this is less the case because there is almost always some kind of hostile in the system... so PvEers/Miners/Industrialists are a little more "desensitized" to possible risk.
Esmanpir wrote:No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players. Weeeellllll... that IS rather the point behind BLOP-Drops.
A group of Recons, SBs, and Black-Ops won't really stand up very well (see: they will be massacred) against a group of actual, organized PvP-ships.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Esmanpir
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
20
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Posted - 2015.01.10 03:57:07 -
[22] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Esmanpir wrote:No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players. you understand PvE is only there to drive PvP right
Facetiously, yes. Actually, no.
But I do understand that PVE people are generally more risk adverse, that their ships are fitted for PVE and not PVP, and that their accounts (subscriptions) are not an insignificant contribution to the coffers of CCP.
So as much as some people, (not say you) despise the risk adverse, mining, PVE, care bearing, industry producing, high-sec ganking 'dweebs', CCP can't do too much to disrupt their game play without running the risk of alienating them an losing a revenue stream.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
428
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Posted - 2015.01.10 05:21:16 -
[23] - Quote
Actually yes
PvE is in eve is by design meant to promote PvP either by earning isk to go out and do it or by putting you in space to be shot at.
that it gives something for people to do that don't wish to PvP at all is a side benefit
To be honest i feel a cov cyno should be light-able anyplace (outside of HS and FW plexs) if you see a cov ops fitted ship you should warp or assume he's got a fleet behind him however acc gates need to require de-cloak to activate
one thing i do hate is where you have no chance of knowing an enemy is coming like in WH asteroid belts |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1117
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Posted - 2015.01.10 06:55:52 -
[24] - Quote
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:And where's the problem? Flush them out of the Plex:
to a POS that you have scouted before or Station and put up a bubble in line with the Plex. You get him. to a Safe Spot and then you can combat probe him. You get him with skills. If he undocks he sees bubble right or at pos... Or are your thinking of dictors with cov cyno's? How can they undock if you drive them out of a Plex towards a station or a POS where they land in your bubble?
@Lugh Crow-Slave Why not FW Plexes? How are they different from DED plexes? Why should they be different from them? |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
472
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:22:15 -
[25] - Quote
You want to set up the kill, you oughta work for it. Set up your "AFK" cloaky scanner for an hour or two while actually AFK. Pre-scan your target before bringing in the killer. actually do the OPERATIONS part of black ops. They're already an incredibly flexible and potentially effective tool, all you need to do is the basic leg work of making sure you have a target localized before you try to kill it.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Lugh Crow-Slave
429
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Posted - 2015.01.10 11:47:57 -
[26] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:
@Lugh Crow-Slave Why not FW Plexes? How are they different from DED plexes? Why should they be different from them?
DED Plexes were not set up to get new players and people new to PvP into PvP FW plexes were
I wouldn't see much of a problem letting them in as it wouldn't affect me much however i could see the argument as to why they shouldn't be |
Haywoud Jablomi
The Circus Corp Alternate Allegiance
7
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Posted - 2015.01.10 12:40:18 -
[27] - Quote
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.
So you are going to cry that it takes time to get a possible target. Not even really pointing out that a person in a DED site is setup to PVE and not PVP, so you're looking for an easy kill anyway and now you want to be able to hot drop the people in the site.
Let me guess. You're planning to make it fair while waiting for them to clear the rats before engaging them, right?
-1 for just the insanity of the idea. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
429
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:01:57 -
[28] - Quote
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:Not even really pointing out that a person in a DED site is setup to PVE and not PVP, so you're looking for an easy kill anyway and now you want to be able to hot drop the people in the site.
That's their fault you can run those sites in a PvP fit its just slower so no you wont make as much ISK/hr and you will need to do some piloting since you won't have the same tank |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
723
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:12:05 -
[29] - Quote
Why bother with a black ops when a T3 with scanning subsystem can do the same....about the same price, less train time, less investment, aligns faster, warps faster, DPS + probe in one ship (with Mobile Depot). Hmm, weird, must require that instant escape tool with a cyno out since the probe ship is so much cheaper and easier to lose when used in conjunction with the BLOP assuming a third character is waiting where the BLOP jumped from.
I vote no, cause it makes things far easier for the OP at less risk to himself since obviously a PVE ship can fight a BLOP BS easily while using another tool (the probe ship) to get into the complex (since probe ships are so cheap and easy to lose should the cat screw the pooch ), lol active tank vs low skill passive buffer since it would never win. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
431
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:43:08 -
[30] - Quote
Yes because i'm going to drop a BLOPS into the deadspace pocket and not the bomber/recon fleet |
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