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Caanan
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.09.10 18:40:00 -
[1]
So since theres so many threads about "ZOMG CCP YUR SERVERS SUCK I CANT LOG IN" because of Jita being so laggy why don't we all just discuss this in one thread so that we can have some form of organized discussion about the current problem Eve is facing with Jita.
There is no doubt that the immense lag in Jita is the fault of CCP. However people should be less harsh on CCP, and should refrain from making "ZOMG CCP I WANT MY MONEY BACK I CANT LOG IN" threads. Just ask yourself, in what other game can you interract with 30k people on the same server? Eve is the only one. People need to give CCP some credit for pulling this off at this level. Whining is not going to solve the problem.
The lag in Jita is something people have to deal with. If you realize how the server works, you'll realize that 700 people in one system is going to crash the node one way or another. CCP may add more servers, or develop some load balancing system or something. But if EVE continues to grow I predict we will see the same trend happening, Jita constantly growing and constantly facing the same problem.
So let me describe why Jita is why it is the way I see it.
Jita has has a lot of stations with a lot of agents ranging from all levels and types. This attracts a lot of newer players looking to make money by doing missions. These agent runners supply the market with some mods and items, but mostly they demand items that they need for running their missions. This attracts producers to supply the agent runners with ships and mods because they have a market for their products. Now Jita has become a center of commerce. Next, other players come to Jita for shopping since the market is so plentiful and they can get everything they need in one stop.
Along with Jita there are Rens and Oursulaert, which are all similar because they have lots of agents and have stable and plentiful markets. However they don't lag nearly as bad as Jita because their populations aren't as large. This leads me to think that people are attracted to Caldari space for a reason. A large amount of the population is newer players running agent missions which is what really makes the system of Jita, Oursulaert, and Rens. But Jita is larger because it is caldari. Caldari are the most favored starting race for new players and alts. Why? Because Caldari ships are the best for running agent missions. Why be Gallente and train for a megathron or dominix when a raven will fulfill your needs? The Caldari race is overpowered, and as a result Jita has a much larger population. Rens and Oursulaert don't have nearly as bad as a problem with lag because they aren't caldari.
CCP's mistake was concentrating all the agent missions in Jita, Rens, and Oursulaert. If they weren't there, then we would have a more distributed population, and no huge node crashes and whatnot.
Sure you can add more servers, have better hardware, or a load balancing system, but in the end the problem is going to get continually worse. My suggestion is to remove all the agents in Jita, Rens and Oursulaert and spread them out among their race's space. This will help balance the populations of each races space and will balance the lag on the server.
So what do you guys think?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.10 18:42:00 -
[2]
Yes, I feel that newbies and trial accounts should start in one of the new Dragon newbie systems, where they can do their tutorials and lvl 1 missions.
Jita should stay the trade & travel hub it is today, but without the mission runners and the newbies.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Savesti Kyrsst
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Posted - 2006.09.10 18:45:00 -
[3]
Kick most of the agents to nearby systems. Then allow people to have the NPC convoys haul items for them - for a small fee, and only to hisec. Then they know they can either enter lag/corpwar hell or wait half an hour and get it to the next system over.
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.09.10 18:47:00 -
[4]
half of my missions in perimeter send me to to Jita. why??
all the area around jita has : the best market, plenty of agents, hundreds of stations
why?
jita and its closest neighbours have a better place (if you killed everyone) than the entire derelik region lol
spread the good spots around! its not queues that will solve anything. its changing the offer and demand...
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Tides of Silence recruiting miners and overall fun people |
Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.10 18:48:00 -
[5]
How about a congestion charge, the busier a system gets above a certain point, the higher the fees to dock, jump into the system/etc.
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Iyanah
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.10 18:51:00 -
[6]
I do things in the simple way. Rens is the closest such hub to me, so i run missions there. my base is in abudban - the next system over, where i can mine, manufacture, and store all my items. i only go into rens itself to actually do the missions.
i think if people did this rather than sit in space doing a whole load of nothing, then there would be less of an issue. having 300 players doing bugger all asside from occupy space (and bump anyone trying to undock) is more of a cause of problems than the system's NPC occupants
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Iy |
Ryas Nia
Minmatar
Stormriders
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Posted - 2006.09.10 19:02:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
There is no doubt that the immense lag in Jita is the fault of CCP
Yes there is its the fault of the 400 players and alts that CHOOSE to use that system. I DO NOT got to Jita, and i can live just fine in EVE with out it. The ideas of moving all the noob corps and most the agents out of the big hubs is not bad but your going to have people start screaming about having to do missions in low sec or 3 jumps from a hub....
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FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.09.10 19:05:00 -
[8]
Two reasons Jita is too busy:
1) It has a starter system for Caldari (the most popular race in-game) 1 jump out.
2) All ships passing from 'the south' to 'the north', travel through Jita
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.10 19:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ryas Nia
The ideas of moving all the noob corps and most the agents out of the big hubs is not bad but your going to have people start screaming about having to do missions in low sec or 3 jumps from a hub....
I see it as a excellent business opportunity to provide these mission runners with ships and modules they need for their missions, so they dont have to to go Jita. :)
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
RichThugster
Gallente
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.10 19:10:00 -
[10]
or maybe a 30minute timer. if you do nothing for 30mins you get disconnected, im sure that will cut down on a good portion of ppl in peak systems, and also in eve in general. Droping the ppl in general ingame will reduce the lag in peak systems
but my opinion is, if you dont like it, dont play. Simple as that. Dont moan ***** or cry, cus i dont care, the player base doesnt care, and your what a tiny tiny minority within 100K+ players. CCP would like your money, but is neither going to go broke, or cry themselves to sleep if you quit.
Originally by: KIATolon
I just got owned
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TorpSpammer ExtraordinR
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Posted - 2006.09.10 19:31:00 -
[11]
make it .4
et voila 
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Pericles Maranhao
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.10 19:38:00 -
[12]
All I know is that I gave up on my good standings and etc, packed my stuff, and hauled out of Jita. Now looking for a new agent... Can't take that lag anymore.
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MobileBlack
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Splagada
half of my missions in perimeter send me to to Jita. why??
same question :)
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Lala Ru
Gallente
Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:08:00 -
[14]
Also move Jita somewhere out of the way, with only one entrance. This prevents idle travelers from moving through Jita and helps lessen the load. I've been in Jita many times, but in all but one of the times I was just passing through.
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Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:25:00 -
[15]
All level 3 and 4 mission agents need to be in low security space.
period.
Merc Blog |
Kye Kenshin
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:25:00 -
[16]
Jita seems to be the nearest market for nearly one third of 0.0
All the north use jita as their shopping hub and i reckon a good portion of NW regions do as well so you get alot of traffic.
Im only speculating here i could be wrong.
www.beaglecorp.com | Join "BEAGLEPUBLIC" channel ingame. |
SIlk Predator
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:30:00 -
[17]
I think we should have some sort of bypass built that allows all us travellers to bypass Jita without adding a silly number of jumps to our routes. Just moving the agents out of Jita and distributing them through the surrounding area will not really cure the problem as there are plenty of people who have set-up businesses there which will continue to draw people in.
However, adding a bypass in conjunction with the re-distribution of agents may, over time, help reduce the substantial lag throughout most of the immediate area. Of course, by moving agents and adding a bypass, it would open up the forums for flame and whine threads about CCP killing off peoples business in Jita and the immediate vicinity.
So is it time for a hyperspace by-pass in EVE?
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Caanan
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ryas Nia
Quote:
There is no doubt that the immense lag in Jita is the fault of CCP
Yes there is its the fault of the 400 players and alts that CHOOSE to use that system. I DO NOT got to Jita, and i can live just fine in EVE with out it. The ideas of moving all the noob corps and most the agents out of the big hubs is not bad but your going to have people start screaming about having to do missions in low sec or 3 jumps from a hub....
First of all it is CCP's fault because they created Jita what it is. The agents in the system cause a chain reaction which attracts more and more people. Thus it is CCP's fault, and I'm sure they're aware of it.
People shouldn't worry about getting their agents moved.
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ElGuapo
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2006.09.10 20:57:00 -
[19]
I started a thread in the ideas forum on solving the jita problem:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=393684
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Runt Mcgoire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.10 21:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Karash Amerius
All level 3 and 4 mission agents need to be in low security space.
period.
Agreed. My main does run his missions out of a .2 system; where 3 level IV agents live.
Question tho is why put them all in the same place? Me think that some planned funelling is happening where CCP is trying to foister some player conflict.
(/em wraps head in tin...)
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3Jane Tessier'Ashpol
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Posted - 2006.09.10 22:11:00 -
[21]
Jita now = Yulai back then
It's not exactly a new problem. Anyone been to Yulai recently? Noticed a difference to what it used to be?
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.10 23:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Caanan
First of all it is CCP's fault because they created Jita what it is. The agents in the system cause a chain reaction which attracts more and more people. .
Umm, and how is that CCP's fault exactly? And what could they possibly do to alter it? Move the best agents to Oipo? Okay, now the biggest agent-running system is Oipo, so the people building stuff to sell to mission-runners go to Oipo, and the people selling faction items go to Oipo, and everyone who wants to buy faction items goes to Oipo, and now you've got nobody in Jita and 700 people in Oipo.
Change it to Tannolen, you've got 700 people Tannolen. It is *NOT* CCP's fault that people tend to concentrate into a single market system, and there's no way, short of changing human migratory patterns, to stop it. Since CCP is only CCP and not the almighty ruler of the Universe, that's a little beyond them.
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.09.10 23:45:00 -
[23]
You'd have to make Jita less of a hub in order to cut down a majority of the lag.
Have you ever looked at how many instas Jita itself has? A LOT of systems connect to it making it easy to get to no matter where you are almost.
Pushing agents out of it. Closing off some routes to it. And opening up routes to other systems would "help" create more hubs in eve so that 500+ don't have to go into Jita to sell their faction loot.
I'm just of the opinion jita should be destroyed in the up-coming faction war though.
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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StarStryder
Wise Guys
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Posted - 2006.09.11 00:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
[And what could they possibly do to alter it? Move the best agents to Oipo?
This is the key to the problem. "The best agents". What we need is lots of high quality lvl 3 and 4 agents spread around. They need to be of equal quality to stop everyone converging on the best one.
An increase in the number of top quality agents is also needed if they are to be moved to low sec. Otherwise all that will happen is that the pirates will work out where the best agent is and camp it 24/7 as many mission runners as possible which will simply irritate a lot of people. Another solution to this problem is to allow agent convos to take place in space.
Also, to the OP: Please don't start using the Jita situation to call for a Caldari nerf. The state of the races' ships has nothing to do with the large Caldari population. Newbies don't know anything about that stuff. When they choose a race all they have to go on are the brief generic descriptions. More people choose Caldari because they are described as a warrior race and this is considered to be good by a large number of people looking to play a game. That is the reason Caldari are numerous.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.09.11 00:47:00 -
[25]
Any points made about Jita being a hub and busy are irrelevent.
Before Dragon (actually i'd say a week or so before that too) Jita ran fine. As soon as the servers started acting funny just before Dragon went in, suddenly the lag increase's ten fold and now we get this que ****.
Something was broke that was working before.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.11 00:50:00 -
[26]
Imho the current Jita problem is more of a Dragon code problem. Before Dragon, Jita was perfectly fine (at least for me) with close to 700 people, which I found amazing seeing how a few months back it would go **** up with just 500. I thought CCP did a really good Job somewhere along the way.
But ever since the dragon patch (and it got worse with the followup fix-patch), I even get a lot of lag there with only 400 people. Just glad I do not live there, only trade. Still its unpleasant when you have to wait ages when moving stuff or opening market/escrow, and I think CCP messed up big time somewhere in Dragon.
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Trem Sinval
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Posted - 2006.09.11 00:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: SIlk Predator
I think we should have some sort of bypass built that allows all us travellers to bypass Jita without adding a silly number of jumps to our routes.
There's a simple way around Jita that only adds 2 jumps if I remember right. You've got to plot it manually, but it's there. 0.7 and 0.6 space, practically deserted (since the autopilot never considers it). But worth it to avoid the jump queue's, suicide squads, and IV M4. *shudder*.
- Trem
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.11 06:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: StarStryder
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
[And what could they possibly do to alter it? Move the best agents to Oipo?
This is the key to the problem. "The best agents". What we need is lots of high quality lvl 3 and 4 agents spread around. They need to be of equal quality to stop everyone converging on the best one.
Won't help. It's in everyone's interest to have a single, massive market hub; that's why Jita evolved into what it is now. Nerf Jita, and one will develop somewhere else. It already did, after all.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.09.11 07:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SIlk Predator
...So is it time for a hyperspace by-pass in EVE?
Bahaha, call in the Vogon Constructor Fleet!!
The way I see it there will always be hubs. Get some good agents together and you get mission runners. Mission runers generate loot and need ships / ammo. Instant trade hub.
The ice in Jita is on the way out, maybe all the belts should should be removed from hub systems. We are talking 3-4 high sec systems without belts. No miners or ratters, they can just go one system over.
After that maybe leave the agents where they are but tweak the code so the mission is never in that system. No missions actually take place there. If it's such a good agent you can stand to make a couple of jumps. Other agents shouldn't send mission runners there from other systems.
After that, and this is the controversial bit, make all war decs null in market hub systems. Just call it a change to Concord law. That will cut out all the pilots camping stations day and night waiting to catch a war target on a shopping trip. They will just have to camp the routes in and out of the system instead.
The biggest problem I see with the above is that these market hubs grew for a number of reasons. If any of my suggestions were implemented we may just quickly find that one of the key ingredients in the market hub pie has been removed and instead of Jita the new hub is two jumps over. Personally I get around the issue by not going to market hubs.
>> RECRUITING << |
Helmut 314
Amarr
J.H.E.N.R
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.09.11 08:09:00 -
[30]
The thing that you are all missing is that we NEED trade hubs. Humans always do this, we flock together and set up shop next to each other because more people passing through the same area means more trade and some of that might just come your way.
Yulai was exactly as Jita is, but when Yulai was the place to be the servers peaked at 10k people, not 30k. Thats one of the problems. The other is that no matter how you try to twist and turn and manipulate the flow of people they will eventually congregate around one or two systems that will become THE hub.
________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.11 08:23:00 -
[31]
All very sensible approachs there Telemicus, agree about the idea of removing ice at the very least, no need to fully remove the belts, just reduce to a single belt to keep the programmers happy :-)
Also, excellent idea about tweaking mission code so missions are in another system always, though perhaps reducing the agent numbers a little and thining them out and spreading them out more would also help a little.
war dec null idea is interesting, but I think then we will see huge gate camps to catch people coming out.
I do also agree that there is a natural tendancy for hubs to develop, but perhaps we can create a hub consisting of several systems, rather than a single all singing all dancing system.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.09.11 10:17:00 -
[32]
TBH i think Yulai should still be the central hub. For Eve's story's sake, thats where everything happened. Conventions etcetc
..but what's done is done, shifting the hub again wont do a damn thing, something was broke that was working before and it needs fixing.
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Xaarist
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.11 10:40:00 -
[33]
there are some ideas for solving jita problems. to find a solution one has to take a look at where lag is created.
in jita you have the best market, which means that there is a lot of traffic. there are a lot of transactions, escrows, buy and sell orders, and a lot of people checking them. this requires server interaction. a lot of server interaction. then there are warring factions camping jita, since it is used as supply for themselves and their opponents. this created a lot of lag, too. so the first aproach could be to separate this by creating two jitas, on taffic hub which is accessible from a lot of other systems (stargates) and one deadend jita. in deadend jita players won't be able to activate any modules on their ships, hence no fighting, no mission whoring, stuff like this. only trade actions and traffic may cause lag. by talking about only trade hub i mean no labs and factories, too. have only one station but undocking ships will be teleported outside on a sphere of 100 km radius. (if you ever tried undocking with a freighter in p4 m4 station then you know why). it does not matter since nobody will camp station exit anyways.
in traffic hub jita ppl will only need to camp the gate to trade hub jita, is it a disadvantage? in fact, today they only have to camp exit of p4m4 station, so it does not change much. both jitas get of course a special server treatment. i don't know anything about percentage of lag cause by action X, but with easy numbers this would cut the server load in each of the systems by 50% making both of them playable. atm, jita is a no go during main hours. it took 30 minutes to log on, change ship, undock, warp to kisogo gate, approach the gate and jump out yesterday. this is more than an annoyance to paying customers.
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(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is an alien dressed as Bunny to secretly gain world domination.
...if you don't know Happy Tree Friends, just imagine Teletubbies on LSD... |
Todaviho
Minmatar
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.11 10:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Helmut 314
The thing that you are all missing is that we NEED trade hubs. Humans always do this, we flock together and set up shop next to each other because more people passing through the same area means more trade and some of that might just come your way.
Yulai was exactly as Jita is, but when Yulai was the place to be the servers peaked at 10k people, not 30k. Thats one of the problems. The other is that no matter how you try to twist and turn and manipulate the flow of people they will eventually congregate around one or two systems that will become THE hub.
This is just so true. And since its obvious that this will always happen it IS CPPs fault. They should have know it was going to happen and thought of a way to prevent this from getting out off hand. A possible solution. A new system with NO agents, NO asteroids. A 100% pure trade hub. A no shoot zone patrolled by Concord. That would cut down the number off ppl in that system to a minimum.
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StarStryder
Wise Guys
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Posted - 2006.09.11 10:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: StarStryder
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
[And what could they possibly do to alter it? Move the best agents to Oipo?
This is the key to the problem. "The best agents". What we need is lots of high quality lvl 3 and 4 agents spread around. They need to be of equal quality to stop everyone converging on the best one.
Won't help. It's in everyone's interest to have a single, massive market hub; that's why Jita evolved into what it is now. Nerf Jita, and one will develop somewhere else. It already did, after all.
True, but the old risk/reward thing comes into play again, or in this case maybe more risk/convenience. Basically if Jita is laggy then people will be tempted to move away so long as they don't feel they're losing out on their income. Even if they only move a few jumps away and still come to Jita to shop, it would still reduce the load since shopping take 10 minutes; mission running takes hours.
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Fillmeup
Gallente
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.09.11 11:59:00 -
[36]
Actually (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Jita and Eve in general needs more people. The way I see it, Jita and Eve in it's current form are stuck between having enough players for expanding into surrounding systems and actually doing it. Like anything, if player numbers keep steadily growing, then problems in Jita will grow worse, then people will start setting up shop in systems on the way to Jita etc. due to the sheer frustration of a lagfest.
Dispersing some more agents to other regions may help as well. Then again, I haven't been to Jita in 6 months plus.
I will say though that I really want hubs systems to stay, and instead increase server capacity / efficiency yada yada. I want to see relatively safe inner core systems with 1000's of pod pilots all doing their thing. And I want it to be sufficiently different to the relative emptyness of 0.0., cause that's the way it's meant to be.
Nothing reminds me of how vast Eve is than jumping into a system and seeing 70 other unrelated pod-pilots coming or going, especially seeing as I spend 99% of my time in 0.0. It'd be nice if CCP was concetrating on ways to cope with the load in so-called hub systems without necessarily reducing the player numbers ... I can only hope the code and hardware revision are designed to cope with these things into the future 
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Alberta
Gallente
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.09.11 12:04:00 -
[37]
I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so I apologise if anybody's already posted something along these lines.
I see 4 main contributing factors to Jita's popularity:
1. It is on a major travel route.
2. It has a large number stations with lab and factory slots
3. It has a good spread of agents.
4. It is in Caldari space, and Caldari are the most popular race.
Ignoring point 4, since I can't really see an obvious way of changing that and really a general approach to reducing hub activity is preferable, here's what I would suggest doing to reduce the concentration of people in Jita (and the other hubs).
1. Only allow systems to have either a concentration of labs and factories or agents, not both.
2. Re-distribute labs, factories and agents such that there are 2-3 hubs per region (or possibly 1 per constellation). Each hub consisting of an agent-market pair separated by one other system.
3. Add bypass jumps on for the activity hubs. Any 2 systems which are connected by jumping through a hub should also be connected directly to eliminate through traffic.
4. No agents should give missions with a hub system as the destination (with the possible exception of agents located in that system).
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Bazman
Caldari
The Establishment
Establishment
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Posted - 2006.09.11 12:11:00 -
[38]
Seriously, a balanced redistribution of level 3 and 4 agents around Caldari space would ease the pressure on Jita while not destroying its use as a trade hub. IMO there should be no level 4 Agents in Jita. Level 2 Agents at max.
-----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training. |
Koth Krakenworth
Minmatar
S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.09.11 12:21:00 -
[39]
Telemicus got the best idea so far I think, to remove Jita as a mission location completely. The agentrunners would still have their agent, after a completed mission they would still sell and buy their equipment where their agent is but this would mean that people would only jump into Jita in order to trade or start a mission. But aslong as it is the trading hub, it will always attract the people who start wars and the people who suicide bomb and those add a lot to the lag also. The solution there would be to make Jita PvP free, but that's just plain wrong 
Signature: Complete Image
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Fr3nzi
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.09.11 14:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Caanan
So since theres so many threads about "ZOMG CCP YUR SERVERS SUCK I CANT LOG IN" because of Jita being so laggy why don't we all just discuss this in one thread so that we can have some form of organized discussion about the current problem Eve is facing with Jita.
There is no doubt that the immense lag in Jita is the fault of CCP. However people should be less harsh on CCP, and should refrain from making "ZOMG CCP I WANT MY MONEY BACK I CANT LOG IN" threads. Just ask yourself, in what other game can you interract with 30k people on the same server? Eve is the only one. People need to give CCP some credit for pulling this off at this level. Whining is not going to solve the problem.
The lag in Jita is something people have to deal with. If you realize how the server works, you'll realize that 700 people in one system is going to crash the node one way or another. CCP may add more servers, or develop some load balancing system or something. But if EVE continues to grow I predict we will see the same trend happening, Jita constantly growing and constantly facing the same problem.
So let me describe why Jita is why it is the way I see it.
Jita has has a lot of stations with a lot of agents ranging from all levels and types. This attracts a lot of newer players looking to make money by doing missions. These agent runners supply the market with some mods and items, but mostly they demand items that they need for running their missions. This attracts producers to supply the agent runners with ships and mods because they have a market for their products. Now Jita has become a center of commerce. Next, other players come to Jita for shopping since the market is so plentiful and they can get everything they need in one stop.
Along with Jita there are Rens and Oursulaert, which are all similar because they have lots of agents and have stable and plentiful markets. However they don't lag nearly as bad as Jita because their populations aren't as large. This leads me to think that people are attracted to Caldari space for a reason. A large amount of the population is newer players running agent missions which is what really makes the system of Jita, Oursulaert, and Rens. But Jita is larger because it is caldari. Caldari are the most favored starting race for new players and alts. Why? Because Caldari ships are the best for running agent missions. Why be Gallente and train for a megathron or dominix when a raven will fulfill your needs? The Caldari race is overpowered, and as a result Jita has a much larger population. Rens and Oursulaert don't have nearly as bad as a problem with lag because they aren't caldari.
CCP's mistake was concentrating all the agent missions in Jita, Rens, and Oursulaert. If they weren't there, then we would have a more distributed population, and no huge node crashes and whatnot.
Sure you can add more servers, have better hardware, or a load balancing system, but in the end the problem is going to get continually worse. My suggestion is to remove all the agents in Jita, Rens and Oursulaert and spread them out among their race's space. This will help balance the populations of each races space and will balance the lag on the server.
So what do you guys think?
Big post just to say Nerf Caldari 
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X3vious
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Posted - 2006.09.11 16:09:00 -
[41]
<rant>
I really wish people would stop the constant whinning about Jita.
Its popular - so what? Its a trading hub - so what?!!!
The RL also has major trading hubs ( Cities ) - so why should Eve be any different?
"Nerf this, Nerf that " - people - please get a life! There are other people who play Eve besides you!
( p.s., I've visited Jita only once - and i'm many jumps away )
</rant>
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Caanan
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.09.11 17:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: X3vious
<rant>
I really wish people would stop the constant whinning about Jita.
Its popular - so what? Its a trading hub - so what?!!!
The RL also has major trading hubs ( Cities ) - so why should Eve be any different?
"Nerf this, Nerf that " - people - please get a life! There are other people who play Eve besides you!
( p.s., I've visited Jita only once - and i'm many jumps away )
</rant>
So what? Its a problem because one weekends it lags so bad you can't log in or get into it.
It is not just a trade hub and that's the problem. There are too many people there, and many of them are not traders. It should stay a trade hub, but in order to be able to even log in on a weekend something has to be done to remove the lag.
The point is to not nerf Jita but to solve the lag problem. You probably have no idea about the situation because you have probably been to Jita only once and it was probably on a weekday where there were not as many people online thus you didn't notice much lag.
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call mebtch
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Posted - 2006.09.11 17:40:00 -
[43]
well looking at the problem moving these things wont realy solve anything
it would be better to move all agents and missions but lvl 1 out of nooby areas thus forceing peeps to move out
example=
1.0 nooby areas get lvl i missions
.9 .8 lvl 1 / 2
.7 .6 lvl 1/2/3
.5 .4 lvl 2/3/4
.4 and below 2/3/4/5 lvl missions / agents
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Natas Dog
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Posted - 2006.09.11 18:17:00 -
[44]
For the record, Jita is nowhere near the only place suffering horrendous lag following the dragon code upgrade. I operate out of low sec in a relatively quiet region pretty much exclusively. In the system I use most frequently there's usually less than 20 people in it, and yet there's a tremendous amount of lag there as well. PvP is a PITA when you're stuck wondering "Did I hit the wrong shortcut, or is it just server lag keeping my weapons from coming online?". I can't imagine what fleet battles must be like with the servers behaving this way.
Running L4s I get to deal with waiting 10-15 seconds just to see my weapons come online at times, and NPCs 'warping' back to their spawn points 100-150k away from me mid-mission. Not to mention lag when opening cans as I'm tractoring them in mid-fight to minimize having to bookmark 50 cans that I don't want to have to chase down after each mission. Jita's only the tip of the iceberg, there's more to this than just node populations if you ask me.
Don't get me wrong, I still try to have a blast in spite of the crippling lag; but it's getting to a point where I just want to log off when this starts happening and come back later to see if the servers are behaving somewhat normally. I hope that these issues are cleared up before Kali, because I can't see it getting any better when they start adding even more features and functionality that are handled server side.
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.09.11 18:28:00 -
[45]
Don't stop with the agents you have to go all the way and remove all but one of the station and for every station removed a new sytem should be added other wise the same thing will happen to anouther system.
The reason my have been because of the agents but the only reason its like it is now is because of the commerce. You can go to those systems and have a crap load of competition for the same product I lower prices. Remove the commpetision prices in system will rise and shopers will go to anouther system where the product is cheaper.
Lag removed, but possible to anouter system...
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Acheron Cyc
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.11 18:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: X3vious
The RL also has major trading hubs ( Cities ) - so why should Eve be any different?
Let me know when you start lagging in your local WalMart/Super Market, and have to wait 10 minutes to get the cart out, through the front door, mkay?.
------------------------------------------
"To do something right it must be done twice. The first time instructs the second."
Simon Bolivar.
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Gretchen Dawntreader
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.11 19:33:00 -
[47]
My understanding of the history of changes was that Yulai was the crowded hub until they changed the jump routes to promote more region-centered trading, so now we have 3 big hubs. And yes, Rens gets laggy sometimes. Not as bad as Jita...
All you have to do to understand why is look at the ingame map. Flatten the map and look at Jita. It's at the center of a web of routes and is a natural hub. Rens similarly has numerous gates. "All roads lead to Rome."
The same market forces that create large cities where rivers meet the ocean, created virtual "cities" at Jita, Rens and Oursaleart. It is natural to want to bring your goods to the largest marketplace to be seen by the most customers. If you dismantle Jita, a new Jita will emerge.
Also, enough with the suggestions that level 3 and 4 mission agents should be low sec. Don't you have noobs to gatecamp? I'd seen the level 4 suggestion before, and that was silly enough. Suggesting the same for level 3 is breathtaking. So people can mission run until they get their first cruiser, then they go out into pvp land? 
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X3vious
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Posted - 2006.09.13 16:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Acheron Cyc
Originally by: X3vious
The RL also has major trading hubs ( Cities ) - so why should Eve be any different?
Let me know when you start lagging in your local WalMart/Super Market, and have to wait 10 minutes to get the cart out, through the front door, mkay?.
Shopping at Walmart is akin to selling your soul to Satan. :-)
Nerfing Jita due to lag is covering the problem of excess lag up... the lag issues should be fixed or at least, improved, and not nerfing anything and everything that causes lag.
I've went to Jita on a Saturday, 500 players in there.
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