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If the PLEX can only be traded one time.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.12.23 07:44:36 - [1] - Quote If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2876	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:00:24 - [2] - Quote Always thought this was a good idea, too. Players with huge amounts of ISK can manipulate any market. This is fine as long as the effects are in-game, but PLEX prices affect players RL choices to buy PLEX for cash, sub, grind ISK, or just unsub some or all accounts. I never thought that was a good thing... Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Miko Valentine Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 16	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:07:18 - [3] - Quote yeah CCP should Change the Plex . maybe the solution is that you have to Change yourself
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 4192	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:09:29 - [4] - Quote ...then PLEX prices would fall in ISK, with no change to the effort required to earn that ISK in game, meaning more people would turn to illicit RMT as their method of choice for 'buying' ISK. Bad idea. More account hacking would be the #1 effect of this change. Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC 1170	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:37:17 - [5] - Quote Stealth PLEX whine thread. Heard it before, so its not allowed to be discussed here. This forum is only for totally new ideas and concepts. Gas thread.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2876	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:44:22 - [6] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: ...then PLEX prices would fall in ISK, with no change to the effort required to earn that ISK in game, meaning more people would turn to illicit RMT as their method of choice for 'buying' ISK. Bad idea. More account hacking would be the #1 effect of this change. Why are you so sure about that? If anything, supply would decrease dramatically. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Sequester Risalo Significant Others 36	Posted - 2014.12.23 09:04:29 - [7] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: ...then PLEX prices would fall in ISK, with no change to the effort required to earn that ISK in game, meaning more people would turn to illicit RMT as their method of choice for 'buying' ISK. Bad idea. More account hacking would be the #1 effect of this change. It really depends on how low the price would fall.I take it that at one point in time plex prices were only half of the last peak. Are you implying that at that point in time there was more illicit RMT and more acount hacking? I doubt this. I think that there is only a minority who would venture into the field of illicit or even illegal behaviour. And of this minority a fraction would do this regardless of the price. If plexes could only be traded once obviously only those who actually are going to use them will ever buy. This reduced demand will most likely lead to a reduced price. No one knows how much the price would drop.
VaIefar Drekavac Independent Sharpshooters 8	Posted - 2014.12.23 09:10:32 - [8] - Quote So much for player driven economy.
SpaceSaft Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club 136	Posted - 2014.12.23 09:55:45 - [9] - Quote I thought about that too, but it really wouldn't work. Any thing like that would break the market in one form or another. Increased taxes would just increase price or decrease the $ to Isk ratio which is to the detrement of people buying isk with $ legally. Trading limitations would decrease the market volume if anything, which would drive prices up even more. Wouldn't want to waste your 1 sell per plex on a price too cheap right? In the end the jita plex market just reflects game time value very well. I don't think that has to change. Any change in how that's being valued should come from increasing challenge for ratting or such things. For example I've recently experienced just how ridiculously easy and boring it is to rat with sentries in nullsec. The UI is still bad.
War Kitten Panda McLegion 5666	Posted - 2014.12.23 11:31:48 - [10] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value You think prices are too high, therefore you want to change something... something you admit that you have no idea what the repercussions would be. I think the biggest failure of your idea is that you think a random limitation is better than simple supply and demand that we have now. If you think PLEX prices are high, go buy some and sell them on the market. If you think PLEX prices will continue to rise, acquire some and hold them as an investment. If you can't afford either of these options, why are you worried about the price of a Ferrari on a Ford budget? PLEX are a luxury item, not a necessity. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.

Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1723	Posted - 2014.12.23 12:39:32 - [11] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Players with huge amounts of ISK can manipulate any market. This is fine as long as the effects are in-game, but PLEX prices PLEX price in RL money is unaffected. Only PLEX value in-game is affected. Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Hiasa Kite Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 96	Posted - 2014.12.23 12:51:36 - [12] - Quote War Kitten wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value You think prices are too high, therefore you want to change something... something you admit that you have no idea what the repercussions would be. I think the biggest failure of your idea is that you think a random limitation is better than simple supply and demand that we have now. If you think PLEX prices are high, go buy some and sell them on the market. If you think PLEX prices will continue to rise, acquire some and hold them as an investment. If you can't afford either of these options, why are you worried about the price of a Ferrari on a Ford budget? PLEX are a luxury item, not a necessity. ISD, you have the Internet's permission to lock the thread now. People to vote for CSM X(in order): Sabriz Adoudel, Steve Ronuken, Manfred Sideous, Mike Azariah, Gorski Car
Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.12.23 13:31:52 - [13] - Quote War Kitten wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value You think prices are too high, therefore you want to change something... something you admit that you have no idea what the repercussions would be. I think the biggest failure of your idea is that you think a random limitation is better than simple supply and demand that we have now. If you think PLEX prices are high, go buy some and sell them on the market. If you think PLEX prices will continue to rise, acquire some and hold them as an investment. If you can't afford either of these options, why are you worried about the price of a Ferrari on a Ford budget? PLEX are a luxury item, not a necessity. If you think 800mil isk is a Ferrari, what will happen while PLEX rise to 8billion. I'm not talking about buying plex or selling plex. I'm worried about if plex keep rising (some businessman have huge amount of isk, what if they do some malicious speculation make the plex to a very high price, for example 8billion) , then economic crisis break out. This is not good signal to this game.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9251	Posted - 2014.12.23 13:39:16 - [14] - Quote Right now a plex costs about 28 million isk per day. If you can't make 28 million isk per day, you should not be using PLEX. So what if someone manipulates plex prices? This is a game, yo shouldn't be plexing more accounts than you could pay for with cash anyway.
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 152	Posted - 2014.12.23 13:49:08 - [15] - Quote I agree its a PLEX whine thread. One assumption was bann isboxer and PLEX prices would drop. They did, but they recovered to a certain grade. PLEX as item that can be marketed is the intended idea, the OP idea is the same as removing PLEX complety from EvE. Put something on the market and supply and demand will make the price. It can be manipulated to a certain degree but that would be only be reliable if one had a monopoly on it. One has. CCP! But its not CCP who keeps the prices up. Traders do. Even MMOs like WoW has players who do nothing else then trading. So with a Market like New Eden, what would you think? Eve might be the most interesting MMO-market there is. Stuff is lost for good and can not be restored. Almost every game relevant stuff has to be mined from rocks or moons, researched and build. google for hulkageddon... Those traders laugh their heads of for the hate that miners get for AFK Playing. Thats why i despise this freaking AFK argument of some certain wackos , it overlooks those traders completly. They can do a lot of harm. So, OP, thats a completly stupid idea. Forum Main
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 153	Posted - 2014.12.23 13:57:13 - [16] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: what will happen while PLEX rise to 8billion. I'm not talking about buying plex or selling plex. I'm worried about if plex keep rising (some businessman have huge amount of isk, what if they do some malicious speculation make the plex to a very high price, for example 8billion) , then economic crisis break out. This is not good signal to this game. If they would cost 8bill and ppl would buy them directly from CCP. Seller could not sell for the price. The price would drop. Who would be the victim of those booooohooo crisis? Hm? The people who whould hoard those PLEXes... Well, that would be the people who where interested in those high prices. And since the empire will not have to rescue those bad banks, the playing folks would come out unharmed. Forum Main
handige harrie Hedion University Amarr Empire 283	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:01:43 - [17] - Quote VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. Baddest poster ever
Daemun Khanid Saeculari 42	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:02:25 - [18] - Quote I hate to post in a plex thread but... As someone else mentioned, this would drastically decrease the amount of plex on the market. If supply drops while demand remains constant, price will increase. It's basic supply and demand. It's like saying lets stop drilling for oil to lower the price of gas. I really don't see why on earth a plex thread is even showing up right now. The price has been plummeting the last few weeks all because the market is saturated with plex sell orders. At this point I'd love to see the price going up again. My wallet is getting a little light and I'm certainly not selling low. Daemun of Khanid
Xavier Holtzman Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension 245	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:13:38 - [19] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. PLEX prices are going down. What is an appropriate price for PLEX? I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug
Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:18:03 - [20] - Quote handige harrie wrote: VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. but that can prevent speculate, let the plex stay in some normal price. because plex is for using, not for speculation.

Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:29:45 - [21] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. PLEX prices are going down. What is an appropriate price for PLEX? i dont know. but believe me, low prices are temporary, PLEX prices will keep rising if ccp don't take fundamental actions. think about: if a new player comes to EVE, he find that everything is on an odd high price, he check out the PLEX, omg it's 8bil, if I don't spend my real money to redeem PLEX, how can I live in this universe? That's what i'm worried. I want this game better, afterall everything will be late when that day comes
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 153	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:13:14 - [22] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: handige harrie wrote: VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. but that can prevent speculate, let the plex stay in some normal price. because plex is for using, not for speculation. BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. Forum Main
Abyss Azizora Temporary Corp 12 130	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:18:49 - [23] - Quote It's a smart choice to change it to only be traded once. While it would in fact cause the price to increase at first, it would quickly cause the price to drop sharply thereafter, as the mega-rich who hoard PLEX to keep their isk immune to inflation, can no longer hoard them. (And even the non-mega-rich, hell even I keep about 20b in PLEX, and that's pocket change compared to the hoarders.) The result is that people who actually "USE" the PLEX will be the ones buying them, and not isk hoarders. Resulting in better supply, and hence lower prices.
Sol Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 843	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:19:12 - [24] - Quote Yeah let's cripple the eco omy with this change and make thousands of people unhappy, because they can't trade in PLEX anymore. Such a brilliant idea, totally not born out of selfishness. "Babies scream all the time, for no good reason" post "This is hilarious. Watch it" post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yugcNW_xI ("Fuck EVE!") -- Sabriz Adoud
Ayx Shewma 0scope Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 77	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:24:45 - [25] - Quote VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. This. We need fewer restrictions, not more. EVE is a libertarian game, not communist.
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 153	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:26:29 - [26] - Quote Abyss Azizora wrote: It's a smart choice to change it to only be traded once. While it would in fact cause the price to increase at first, it would quickly cause the price to drop sharply thereafter, as the mega-rich who hoard PLEX to keep their isk immune to inflation, can no longer hoard them. (And even the non-mega-rich, hell even I keep about 20b in PLEX, and that's pocket change compared to the hoarders.) The result is that people who actually "USE" the PLEX will be the ones buying them, and not isk hoarders. Resulting in better supply, and hence lower prices. No, its plain stupid. Whats so hard to understand? Selling and re-selling is the Intention behind Plex. Forum Main
Xavier Holtzman Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension 245	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:33:56 - [27] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: Xavier Holtzman wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. PLEX prices are going down. What is an appropriate price for PLEX? i dont know. but believe me, low prices are temporary, PLEX prices will keep rising if ccp don't take fundamental actions. think about: if a new player comes to EVE, he find that everything is on an odd high price, he check out the PLEX, omg it's 8bil, if I don't spend my real money to redeem PLEX, how can I live in this universe? That's what i'm worried. I want this game better, afterall everything will be late when that day comes So 817mil and falling is too much? Please answer my question and tell me what an appropriate price would be? Also, you speak about PLEX like its every players god given right to buy, sell, possess and use PLEX. PLEX is nothing more than a luxury item. If you can afford it .. GREAT! If you can't, no big deal. There are bigger and better things in EVE than PLEX and their prices. Also, I don't understand how the price of PLEX makes "everything is on an odd high price." I also don't uderstand what you mean by "if I don't spend my real money to redeem plex, how can I survive?" So, you're trying to tell me that PLEX prices will drive up the price of EVERYTHING ELSE, at which point the new player will convince him/herself that he/she must purchase a PLEX with real money so that they can sell it to get more ISK so that they can purchase items in EVE Online that are ridiculously expensive because PLEX prices are ridiculously expensive? I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug
Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:36:46 - [28] - Quote La Rynx wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: handige harrie wrote: VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. but that can prevent speculate, let the plex stay in some normal price. because plex is for using, not for speculation. BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. , But the more you Post, the more it gets obvious, that you are One of the typical plex-price-is-to-high whiner. But PLEX is created by real money, not redeem from LP or manufactured in stations. It should be controled because it is equal to RMT. The only difference is the seller is CCP itself.
Xavier Holtzman Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension 245	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:44:02 - [29] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: La Rynx wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: handige harrie wrote: VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. but that can prevent speculate, let the plex stay in some normal price. because plex is for using, not for speculation. BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. , But the more you Post, the more it gets obvious, that you are One of the typical plex-price-is-to-high whiner. But PLEX is created by real money, not redeem from LP or manufactured in stations. It should be controled because it is equal to RMT. The only difference is the seller is CCP itself. So why didn't you say that from the very beginning? Why has it taken you this long to come out and say your reason for wanting PLEX to be only tradable once? Why didn't you say in your OP that PLEX prices should only be tradable once because PLEX is equal to RMT? Oh thats right, because the reason you posted your terrible idea to begin with is because you can't afford to buy PLEX and you think the price should be lower. Not because "it is equal to RMT." edit: by the way, you never answered my question..... How much should a PLEX cost? Let me guess .. they should cost less than the amount of ISK you currently have. I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug
Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:46:13 - [30] - Quote La Rynx wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: handige harrie wrote: VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. but that can prevent speculate, let the plex stay in some normal price. because plex is for using, not for speculation. BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. , But the more you Post, the more it gets obvious, that you are One of the typical plex-price-is-to-high whiner. No, i don't think the price is too high, but it should be noticed. Im not whiner, I'm telling the truth. have you listened warm boiled frog before? yeah , maybe we are the frog now

Francis Inch Kador Defence Initiative 21	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:52:09 - [31] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: La Rynx wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: handige harrie wrote: VaIefar Drekavac wrote: So much for player driven economy. ? Plex are still sold and bought by players, this thought experiment would change nothing about that. but that can prevent speculate, let the plex stay in some normal price. because plex is for using, not for speculation. BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. , But the more you Post, the more it gets obvious, that you are One of the typical plex-price-is-to-high whiner. But PLEX is created by real money, not redeem from LP or manufactured in stations. It should be controled because it is equal to RMT. The only difference is the seller is CCP itself. It is controlled. CCP set the price in real currency and its value is constant - one month's worth of game time. How players choose to value that remains a matter of personal choice - no one is forced to use them and no one has the right to deserve or demand them. Fundamentally EVE is not a Free 2 Play game and any argument otherwise will not change PLEX only encourage their removal.
Sol Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 844	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:53:25 - [32] - Quote Why can't people just link to all the other threads with ... ... EXACTLY THE SAME QUESTIONS ... ... with the exact SAME RESPONSES! This way trolls like the OP would have no ground playing you people ... ... but I know, you lot want to be played anyway. Any ets on how many pages this will reach? "Babies scream all the time, for no good reason" post "This is hilarious. Watch it" post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9yugcNW_xI ("Fuck EVE!") -- Sabriz Adoud
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 154	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:58:06 - [33] - Quote Noticed? CCP knows who owns all the PLEX in game and how much they are worth in ISK and RM. It is a risk to make such deals possible. If i am not wrong CCP hired a market specialist extra for the markets. If PLEX cost to much isk, CCP sell more PLEX for real money. If PLEX cost not much ISK, PLEX will be bought ingame. The amount of availlable PLEX would sink and ISK price would rise again... The ones that could be hurt alot? The ingame PLEX speculators. Forum Main
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 154	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:01:34 - [34] - Quote Sol Project wrote: Why can't people just link to all the other threads with ... ... EXACTLY THE SAME QUESTIONS ... ... with the exact SAME RESPONSES! This way trolls like the OP would have no ground playing you people ... ... but I know, you lot want to be played anyway. Any ets on how many pages this will reach? No, no idea, but he sounds like another guy coming from serenity. A lock would be more than OK. Forum Main
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 7743	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:02:29 - [35] - Quote Internet Economists are coming out.. Again. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
War Kitten Panda McLegion 5673	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:13:46 - [36] - Quote Abyss Azizora wrote: It's a smart choice to change it to only be traded once. While it would in fact cause the price to increase at first, it would quickly cause the price to drop sharply thereafter, as the mega-rich who hoard PLEX to keep their isk immune to inflation, can no longer hoard them. (And even the non-mega-rich, hell even I keep about 20b in PLEX, and that's pocket change compared to the hoarders.) The result is that people who actually "USE" the PLEX will be the ones buying them, and not isk hoarders. Resulting in better supply, and hence lower prices. Why not make every item in the game follow this rule? The only people who buy ships will be the ones who use them. The only people who buy Damage Control IIs are the ones who use them. No more market trading for anything, because buying and selling is obviously bad and we need to remove this ultra-important cornerstone of the Eve economy. Why? Because the OP and this guy are worried that prices might actually go up and down in an open market. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
knowsitall Adeptus iNdustry and Logistics Silent Eviction 25	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:18:53 - [37] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value PLEX can never be too high. They have an infinite non time bound supply (as far as in game is concerned). The only people that think PLEX is too high is the buyers. Im sure the sellers are happy with high PLEX prices. If PLEX gets too high FOR YOU don't buy them, then the price will fall as demand falls. Eve is not and never has been a free to play game. It is just some players trade subscription time to buy in game isk grinding time. Others trade in game isk grinding time for subscription time. The price you pay for that conversion is set by what PLAYERS are prepared to pay. As with everything in Eve (and in general), its worth is what someone will pay, not what it cost. KIA
Sam am I'll wait for muh friends 0	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:20:16 - [38] - Quote At first i thought it was a good idea. Then i realized,that less availibility means higher prices. No,bc no.
Signal11th 1586	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:20:49 - [39] - Quote pretty simple answer to be honest just put a time limit on plex, say 30/60 days then no one can hold onto it.it either gets used or it expires. Personally I couldnt care if they go up or goes down as I don't use enough to worry about it. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 613	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:28:28 - [40] - Quote Buyers wish to pay less. Seller wishes to be payed more. I think that sums it up? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." - Aaron Birch

Karl Hobb Imperial Margarine 2190	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:29:28 - [41] - Quote Only people who shouldn't be playing EVE complain about the price of PLEX. A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4819	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:34:54 - [42] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: If you think 800mil isk is a Ferrari, what will happen while PLEX rise to 8billion. I'm not talking about buying plex or selling plex. I'm worried about if plex keep rising (some businessman have huge amount of isk, what if they do some malicious speculation make the plex to a very high price, for example 8billion) , then economic crisis break out. This is not good signal to this game. Plex prices will continue to rise, and yes, one day they will be worth 8b isk. Next year they will be breaking the 1b mark. At no point will an economic crisis break out because PLEX is expensive. You're issue is you don't like PLEX price because to you it's too high. Too bad, get over it. They system shouldn't be changed to make PLEX the first non-tradeable commodity just because you don;t like the price of them. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 75	Posted - 2014.12.23 17:32:26 - [43] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: Clever than CCP If each PLEX could be traded only one time. What would happen next? Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value bad idea. please don't mess with my main source of isk. thank you Just Add Water
Barakach Caldari Provisions Caldari State 209	Posted - 2014.12.23 17:41:49 - [44] - Quote Watch buy and sell orders disappear over night. Buy a plex now, wait a month to sell it. People trading plex smooths out the market by allowing buying and selling to happen even when there is no production or demand. Without traders, the only way to buy or sell is when there is a buyer or seller right now. Might as well remove Plex from the market, you'll get the same effect without changes to how Eve works.
SECOND ASSAUIT 23rd Tier Overseer's Personal Effects Pangu Coalition 0	Posted - 2014.12.23 19:13:17 - [45] - Quote http://tieba.baidu.com/photo/p?kw=tamakomarket&flux=1&tid=3484636728&pic_id=7c8c3e66d0160924311b9ba1d70735fae6cd343b&pn=1&fp=2&see_lz=1
DaReaper Net 7 1560	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:23:04 - [46] - Quote Ok lets work this idea through to its natural conclusion. I want to sell a plex but I am limited to selling it only once. So I would check the market, and decide if it was worth it to me to put it on the market. If its not, I then either 1) decide to horde it. or two) sell it a different way to try and get around the market. Now I can horde and hope the price rises, as in theory if I am hording, others who want a plex will start offering more. eventually I will hit a point where I will say 'yea that's good' and sell my plex. Guy who just bought my plex is now locked with it. He can't trade it and has to use it. But he doesn't want to, he wants to make money. He knows there is a way to do this... so, he chekcs the market, then decided to go to the forums and offers the plex there, but he offers it as gifted time, so someone who wants it has to want it for time. He gets offers, and then give it via the new give game time to the new guy. Congrads, you have just created an out of game black market. So now instead of just selling for isk, if I bought 500, all locked, I can offer a service to sell my gifted time for a cheaper fee then ccp charges. "don't like paying $15 a month? i'll sell you 30 days of time right now for $5" This limitiation fixes nothing. I found a way t increase RMT, and increase the plex price astronomically in one stroke. locking it reduces suppy. with reduced supply people will want there plex. they don't want to pay $20, however, if billy bob says get time for $5... well... that's different. What stops this now is tons of supply. shrugs OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Marsha Mallow 1795	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:38:54 - [47] - Quote I know it's an unpopular stance but I agree with the OP, although I'm not sure making Plex tradable once is the only possible solution. Plex aren't a purely ingame item the way that ships or mods are, and I think player speculation and profiteering needs to be decoupled from impacting subs. It's not about stopping the players who sell plex from profiting due to ingame inflation, it's more about minimising the ability of speculators to manipulate the market to a degree that it affects retention rates. If you don't care about retention rates in the slightest, don't bother reading the rest. I've seen a lot of remarks that people who can't afford to play have their priorities wrong and should sort their lives out. It strikes me as a massively hypocritical attitude when on the same forum people encourage each other to "Broadcast for Reps" if they are feeling suicidal. Spend some time talking to players ingame and you'll find a % who are unemployed (made redundant or struggling due to their local economy), or students, or suffering from a host of real life issues. They might be playing Eve as an outlet or as their main hobby. A lot have been suckered into running multiple accounts, which is not -ú10/$10 a month, so stop trotting that out. When they start seeing Plex prices spike it just adds to a spiral of misery they are already in. I find the attitude of "well, tough luck" from some of the forum shitbirds disgusting tbh in this context. You'd have to be a complete ******* to actually say this to someone ingame who is already down and is getting worked up over not having the time to grind to keep their accounts up. Fair enough, some people are whiners, but some are genuinely struggling. There's no counter argument when they threaten to quit and go play something cheaper that isn't such a massive timesink, and I personally resent seeing people I like unsub over this. Something that might be more dynamic would be to set a timer on a Plex from the moment it is issued ingame (say 90 days). That way they can still be traded, but as the timer degrades it becomes more pressing to get them sold. Allowing a few greedy gits to affect so many is not healthy for the wider playerbase and needs to be curbed. * Not talking about myself here, I stay subbed via passive ISK generation. But not everyone can be taught (or wants to learn) and if I was forced to PVE-grind to stay subbed, I'd probably be bawwing too. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
Nemah Xadi Hedion University Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:40:47 - [48] - Quote No. The ability of people with too much ISK to screw over the general population by artifically inflating the price of basic goods that (some) people need in order to play the game is an integral part of any free market. Removing it would make Eve much less real. Also, I'm not buying plexes at these prices either and my accounts will be unsubbed once they expire in a month. But who cares. And no you can't have my stuff.
DaReaper Net 7 1562	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:43:03 - [49] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: I know it's an unpopular stance but I agree with the OP, although I'm not sure making Plex tradable once is the only possible solution. Plex aren't a purely ingame item the way that ships or mods are, and I think player speculation and profiteering needs to be decoupled from impacting subs. It's not about stopping the players who sell plex from profiting due to ingame inflation, it's more about minimising the ability of speculators to manipulate the market to a degree that it affects retention rates. If you don't care about retention rates in the slightest, don't bother reading the rest. I've seen a lot of remarks that people who can't afford to play have their priorities wrong and should sort their lives out. It strikes me as a massively hypocritical attitude when on the same forum people encourage each other to "Broadcast for Reps" if they are feeling suicidal. Spend some time talking to players ingame and you'll find a % who are unemployed (made redundant or struggling due to their local economy), or students, or suffering from a host of real life issues. They might be playing Eve as an outlet or as their main hobby. A lot have been suckered into running multiple accounts, which is not -ú10/$10 a month, so stop trotting that out. When they start seeing Plex prices spike it just adds to a spiral of misery they are already in. I find the attitude of "well, tough luck" from some of the forum shitbirds disgusting tbh in this context. You'd have to be a complete ******* to actually say this to someone ingame who is already down and is getting worked up over not having the time to grind to keep their accounts up. Fair enough, some people are whiners, but some are genuinely struggling. There's no counter argument when they threaten to quit and go play something cheaper that isn't such a massive timesink, and I personally resent seeing people I like unsub over this. Something that might be more dynamic would be to set a timer on a Plex from the moment it is issued ingame (say 90 days). That way they can still be traded, but as the timer degrades it becomes more pressing to get them sold. Allowing a few greedy gits to affect so many is not healthy for the wider playerbase and needs to be curbed. * Not talking about myself here, I stay subbed via passive ISK generation. But not everyone can be taught (or wants to learn) and if I was forced to PVE-grind to stay subbed, I'd probably be bawwing too. I agree with part of this. Plex needs to be decoupled from everything except game time. It needs to be that you can ONLY use plex for game time, that's it. can't buy Iceland tickets, cant use it in the AT, can't use it to buy stuff from eve store, can't resculpt, JUST game time. They have Aurum, this si what Aurum should be, you buy and sell tokens. they are used for all the extra crap. Plex is just for game time. This would reduce a lot of the demand for plex, cause Aurum to rise and people will shift to Aurum. Wait.. then we would have Aurum whine threads... yea.. never mind lol OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
FunGu Arsten Fungu .Inc 58	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:56:04 - [50] - Quote OP please shutup... i'm making billions

Xen Solarus Inner 5phere Republic of the 5phere 874	Posted - 2014.12.23 21:14:36 - [51] - Quote You'd be better off arguing that CCP should reduce the cash value to buy a PLEX. More PLEX on the market, less value. You're suggestion would do the opposite. They won't do that, of course. Bet they're making absolute bank off of PLEX's. The in-game value of a PLEX is going to continue to rise as long as there is a demand. People that play the game for free by earning isk for PLEX are continuing to be able to afford them, even at their higher prices. Christ, I can remember when they were worth 200mill! There's only so much market manipulation that can be done here. It's the people that use and absorb the PLEX to add game-time that ultimately create the demand. As far as people using their wealth to play the market and make loads of cash: Welcome to EvE Online! Anything that reduces the player-driven economy is just wrong! Post with your main, like a BOSS! And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
Dmitri Dracov Deep Space Trade and Prospect 17	Posted - 2014.12.23 21:28:03 - [52] - Quote I don't like plex prices being so high because I sub an alt account that way, but no way should CCP start interfering with the market. I've got a 'top price' I'm willing to pay and that's a billion - we already passed it once and if it gets there again I just shut down my plexed account till prices fall because I can't be bothered to grind for the luxury of the extra account. If it ever comes to a situation that I couldn't afford to pay real money to play EVE I'd just stop playing, no way would I do any tedious PvE for isk just to play, it's bad enough having to do it to buy ships!
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7159	Posted - 2014.12.23 21:34:20 - [53] - Quote I agree with the OP. PLEX is the one single (out of how many thousands?) tradable item that is used as the only legitimate source of RMT. It is a unique item in the game and should be treated as such with restrictions on it's use and specific rules governing how it can be used. Not hatin'. Just sayin'. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2898	Posted - 2014.12.23 22:22:50 - [54] - Quote Consider that PLEX demand is good for the company that is selling them for 20$ a pop. Demand = Immediate Consumption (game time) + Delayed Consumption (you buy a few PLEX at a price you're happy about, to get game time later on) + I Wanna Play Internet Space Warren Buffet (you buy PLEX exclusively to keep it or trade it). OP's suggestion (which I like, ideologically) would kill the 3rd and maybe reduce the 2nd. That's not good for business, so I doubt it'll ever happen. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 8	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:32:04 - [55] - Quote Plex currently average a sales volume average of 4000 per day, or 120k per month. Seeing as there is less than 350k active accounts left in Eve give or take a few dozen thousand, the idea that Plex is not traded several times before being consumed has to be a reality. Judging on the principle that you buy plex to use, to hold or to sell, and if you sell one you are probably subbing your account as well for every one of the 120k sold her month if all were consumed each month then 240k accounts would be taken care of. Now we don't have a clue what the numbers are for subscription types because Plex is the single most secretive item in the game, but we do know that 66% of Eve is not plexing, therefore someone is sitting on a ton of them (many people sitting on many tons). Therefore Plex is only as worthwhile as the artificial demand can outstrip the supply. Wait until January and tell me how that is working out, we are already seeing 100 plex dump orders in Sinq and Lonetrek last night, it is only getting worse for holders coming soon.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 639	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:52:01 - [56] - Quote La Rynx wrote: I agree its a PLEX whine thread. One assumption was bann isboxer and PLEX prices would drop. They did, but they recovered to a certain grade. So, OP, thats a completly stupid idea. That ban hasn't started yet. CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Marsha Mallow 1799	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:12:19 - [57] - Quote Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: Plex currently average a sales volume average of 4000 per day, or 120k per month. Source please DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 8	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:15:06 - [58] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: Plex currently average a sales volume average of 4000 per day, or 120k per month. Source please http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?type_id=29668 https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668 http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=29668 You know there is more market data on Eve than there is on Brent Crude right?!
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 639	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:26:10 - [59] - Quote La Rynx wrote: BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. PLEX exists to make CCP money. They need people to buy PLEX with RL $ that helps to fuel the company. What happens from there on the market you would think would not matter. However, you need people to buy them and use them at a good rate to keep the turn over going. The prices were getting to a point that people just drop the extra accounts and that drops demand and from there that goes back to the $ that CCP want and by now probably need. It was probably a bonus but now PLEX is probably counted as a monthly and annual income used for general expenditure and paying salaries. which is precisely what some players are banking on. There is a group with a core that believe they win the game when CCP has to shut it down. So, they are doing all they can to buy up PLEX, drive other players out, increase their own players with the profit, extra PLEX and ruin the game. CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Marsha Mallow 1800	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:29:20 - [60] - Quote Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: You know there is more market data on Eve than there is on Brent Crude right?! Indeed. I just wanted to check where you were getting those numbers, cheers for the reply. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!

Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:32:04 - [61] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: La Rynx wrote: BS! PLEX where created for the market. The use for speculation is expected and intended. PLEX exists to make CCP money. They need people to buy PLEX with RL $ that helps to fuel the company. What happens from there on the market you would think would not matter. However, you need people to buy them and use them at a good rate to keep the turn over going. The prices were getting to a point that people just drop the extra accounts and that drops demand and from there that goes back to the $ that CCP want and by now probably need. It was probably a bonus but now PLEX is probably counted as a monthly and annual income used for general expenditure and paying salaries. which is precisely what some players are banking on. There is a group with a core that believe they win the game when CCP has to shut it down. So, they are doing all they can to buy up PLEX, drive other players out, increase their own players with the profit, extra PLEX and ruin the game. THIS Also, Plex in and of itself does not make CCP anything. International Accounting Standards would dictate that they hold every single Plex sold that is not consumed in the game as a liability equal to the unrealized value of the sale. Therefore Plex is worthless to CCP as the liability it holds is equal to the amount you bought it for before it is used for game time. There is nothing magical about plex, it is a voucher for game time, and one that might one day be worth half, twice as much, nothing. Right now all Plex should be worth 30% less than last week, because I can buy one for IRL monies for 30% less. Also as I said before, Plex is the most secretive thing in the game. CCP won't release info on how many are destroyed, trapped in banned accounts, sitting in inactive accounts or IF any were ever seeded during times of low supply.
Francis Inch Kador Defence Initiative 22	Posted - 2014.12.24 00:56:41 - [62] - Quote PLEX cannot be easily equated to RMT as you cannot cash out. It's like the free bonus gambling sites give out - you can't spend it anywhere else. Yes the person buying PLEX may not be paying a subscription fee, but all that means is that someone else is. At best it allows someone to play for free, if, and only if, they are effectively willing to provide an in game service. (ie earning isk) to another player. That's not profiting out of CCP, its not selling something to get rich. What it is, is this.... ...it's spending part of their play time doing nothing more than being someone else's isk grinding alt account. If I sell you a PLEX it's just making you my mining/plexing/trading biatch while I go have more fun. The same number of accounts are owned, the same money (or more since they cost more than a sub) goes to CCP. Sure, it makes the game free to play effectively, if you're willing to sacrifice the time and isk. But ultimately all it comes down to is time put in. PLEX values reflect the value players put on time. If they're high its because either time is cheap or that it doesn't take long to earn isk. In that respect the issue with price is not PLEX but how easy it is to earn insane levels of isk now. Bare in mind those of us from 2003 remember tritanium prices below 1 isk, maximum rat bounties being cruiser sized and modules being all Tech 1 and no battleships. Is it any wonder prices are inflated in a world of ratting carriers, hulks, orcas, moon mining and wormhole sleeper loot?
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:04:30 - [63] - Quote Francis Inch wrote: All good points I think what some of us were trying to say is that Plex can have a negative impact on the number of accounts in the game. If it becomes too expensive using in game methods to purchase then I won't have an alt. CCP has complete control over plex though, from the price you pay IRL to the amount of content creating inflation is injected to giving Plex for alt accounts, gifts, sales, lotteries. CCP could stop accepting plex for RL services, driving down demand, or they could cut the cost of Plex because the game is aging and losing subs. They just banned programs that has an obvious and immediate effect on the number of accounts were in the game as alts. We can see that in the character bazaar today, so people are selling off their 10 accounts, keeping 2 and instead of CCP having 22 accounts in the game, there is only 12. (example). I don't think plex should be traded in game, or if it is it should be on a global market that isn't tied to physical location and plex should never be moved. The idea that someone can "blow up" game time is ludicrous.
Leia Stellate Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:19:20 - [64] - Quote Marsha Mallow wrote: I know it's an unpopular stance but I agree with the OP, although I'm not sure making Plex tradable once is the only possible solution. Plex aren't a purely ingame item the way that ships or mods are, and I think player speculation and profiteering needs to be decoupled from impacting subs. It's not about stopping the players who sell plex from profiting due to ingame inflation, it's more about minimising the ability of speculators to manipulate the market to a degree that it affects retention rates. If you don't care about retention rates in the slightest, don't bother reading the rest. I've seen a lot of remarks that people who can't afford to play have their priorities wrong and should sort their lives out. It strikes me as a massively hypocritical attitude when on the same forum people encourage each other to "Broadcast for Reps" if they are feeling suicidal. Spend some time talking to players ingame and you'll find a % who are unemployed (made redundant or struggling due to their local economy), or students, or suffering from a host of real life issues. They might be playing Eve as an outlet or as their main hobby. A lot have been suckered into running multiple accounts, which is not -ú10/$10 a month, so stop trotting that out. When they start seeing Plex prices spike it just adds to a spiral of misery they are already in. I find the attitude of "well, tough luck" from some of the forum shitbirds disgusting tbh in this context. You'd have to be a complete ******* to actually say this to someone ingame who is already down and is getting worked up over not having the time to grind to keep their accounts up. Fair enough, some people are whiners, but some are genuinely struggling. There's no counter argument when they threaten to quit and go play something cheaper that isn't such a massive timesink, and I personally resent seeing people I like unsub over this. Something that might be more dynamic would be to set a timer on a Plex from the moment it is issued ingame (say 90 days). That way they can still be traded, but as the timer degrades it becomes more pressing to get them sold. Allowing a few greedy gits to affect so many is not healthy for the wider playerbase and needs to be curbed. * Not talking about myself here, I stay subbed via passive ISK generation. But not everyone can be taught (or wants to learn) and if I was forced to PVE-grind to stay subbed, I'd probably be bawwing too. Yeah that's what i want to say. Whatever 90days timer or can only be traded once. This is just an idea through the rising price of PLEX, I'm not a PLEX seller or RMTer. And I can afford the PLEX ingame right now, and it's not difficult to me in fact. This is just a simple idea of how to control the rising rate of PLEX price, and that's all.
Francis Inch Kador Defence Initiative 22	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:23:36 - [65] - Quote Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: Francis Inch wrote: All good points I think what some of us were trying to say is that Plex can have a negative impact on the number of accounts in the game. If it becomes too expensive using in game methods to purchase then I won't have an alt. CCP has complete control over plex though, from the price you pay IRL to the amount of content creating inflation is injected to giving Plex for alt accounts, gifts, sales, lotteries. CCP could stop accepting plex for RL services, driving down demand, or they could cut the cost of Plex because the game is aging and losing subs. They just banned programs that has an obvious and immediate effect on the number of accounts were in the game as alts. We can see that in the character bazaar today, so people are selling off their 10 accounts, keeping 2 and instead of CCP having 22 accounts in the game, there is only 12. (example). I don't think plex should be traded in game, or if it is it should be on a global market that isn't tied to physical location and plex should never be moved. The idea that someone can "blow up" game time is ludicrous. I can see the argument to degree, but. 1. EVE is not free to play and never has been. 2. Subscriptions and services are both cheaper through other payment methods than PLEX, alt account discounts even more so, no one is forced to PLEX. 3. No one knows how many subscriptions there are, or how many PLEX are actually redeemed - concurrent users may be down but this is not proven to correlate due to lack of data. Indeed anecdotal evidence suggests veterans continue to subscribe to train skills even as their activity levels fluctuate, so it may be this could actually be growing. 4. While we can discuss the ISboxer impact, the reality is CCP do have this data to hand and have made the business decision that they believe the game will benefit in the long-term from this change, so really, it's their income not mine and there's plenty of history to show EVE will continue just fine.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 18840	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:34:58 - [66] - Quote CCP doesn't get involved = Rabble rabble CCP Y R U NO FIX ECONOMY??!!!? CCP manipulates market = DAM U CCP STAY OUT IV PLAYR DRIVEN ECONOMY!!!1!1!1!1!one Batman is killed = Problem solved. Pretty sure we all know what we have to do at this point. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
Paranoid Loyd 3247	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:42:05 - [67] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Pretty sure we all know what we have to do at this point. Keep whining and forming opinions when we don't have nearly enough information to have an informed opinion or kill the batman? Welp, we all know we are risk adverse neckbeards so I guess we'll just stick with the former. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:45:07 - [68] - Quote Francis Inch wrote: Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: Francis Inch wrote: All good points I think what some of us were trying to say is that Plex can have a negative impact on the number of accounts in the game. If it becomes too expensive using in game methods to purchase then I won't have an alt. CCP has complete control over plex though, from the price you pay IRL to the amount of content creating inflation is injected to giving Plex for alt accounts, gifts, sales, lotteries. CCP could stop accepting plex for RL services, driving down demand, or they could cut the cost of Plex because the game is aging and losing subs. They just banned programs that has an obvious and immediate effect on the number of accounts were in the game as alts. We can see that in the character bazaar today, so people are selling off their 10 accounts, keeping 2 and instead of CCP having 22 accounts in the game, there is only 12. (example). I don't think plex should be traded in game, or if it is it should be on a global market that isn't tied to physical location and plex should never be moved. The idea that someone can "blow up" game time is ludicrous. I can see the argument to degree, but. 1. EVE is not free to play and never has been. 2. Subscriptions and services are both cheaper through other payment methods than PLEX, alt account discounts even more so, no one is forced to PLEX. 3. No one knows how many subscriptions there are, or how many PLEX are actually redeemed - concurrent users may be down but this is not proven to correlate due to lack of data. Indeed anecdotal evidence suggests veterans continue to subscribe to train skills even as their activity levels fluctuate, so it may be this could actually be growing. 4. While we can discuss the ISboxer impact, the reality is CCP do have this data to hand and have made the business decision that they believe the game will benefit in the long-term from this change, so really, it's their income not mine and there's plenty of history to show EVE will continue just fine. 1) Eve is not free, hence the point about the more expensive your subscription medium the less accounts. For those who pay others with isk to buy plex for them with cash, the price fluctuations can have serious impact on number of alts. 2) No one is forced to plex unless you have the skills and time to substitute real life cash for in game time and effort. 3) We know how many new accounts are created, we know how many accounts log in and we know how many Plex are SOLD. We don't know actual inactive accounts, plex immediately consumed at purchase or plex destroyed through services, pvp or banned accounts. 4) CCP does not have number on how many isboxer accounts there are, they can guess, can run a metric and see what accounts fit said metric, but they have no better a way of determining isboxer accounts and actual account loss than anyone else.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 644	Posted - 2014.12.24 03:03:48 - [69] - Quote Francis Inch wrote: If I sell you a PLEX it's just making you my mining/plexing/trading biatch while I go have more fun. This is such a ridiculously subjective post that it isn't even funny. A can afford 1 account but wants two. B can afford 3 accounts and 2 PLEX, doesn't want to play 4 accounts as it is juggling too many chainsaws. B sells PLEX x2 to A CCP gains PLEX x2. If the facility were not there; B would not spend that money, nor would A. CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Serene Repose 1863	Posted - 2014.12.24 03:32:48 - [70] - Quote War Kitten wrote: I think the biggest failure of your idea is that you think a random limitation is better than simple supply and demand that we have now.... This seems so simple in its logic, it's akin to common sense! However, it's just not true. It's no more true in EVE than it is in the mythological "supply and demand" discipline of the real world markets. Why? Both economies have the same problem. Both print money without any functional consideration in terms of how it effects an economy. The single most significant reason prices go up is - prices don't go up. The currency is losing its value, so it takes more of it to equal out. We call that INFLATION, and we used to call it HYPER-INFLATION till that started scaring Ma and Pa Kettle in Yuckapuck, Iowa. How the PLEX enters the economy, the position it has in the economy, and the hands through which PLEX flow make it a specialized item regardless of the mythology involved. Projectile ammunition is a more significant commodity to focus attention on, but to do that one would have to have (and use) the skills of an actual economist. And, of course, we know forums are here to make us seem smart - not so we can really BE smart. It's a matter of the ratio between ISK sink to ISK faucet. It's not a matter of how PLEX is handled in the game. Get control of the runaway inflation first, then we can discuss using real money to print fake money in a video game. Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."

Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 644	Posted - 2014.12.24 03:42:38 - [71] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: It's a matter of the ratio between ISK sink to ISK faucet. When the ISK faucet is gushing the veteran players get out their buckets, barrels and resevoirs. When the ISK sinks are greater or the faucets are turned down, the new players come into an inflated market they can't afford. So, here comes your problem: How do you ISK sink the veterans without harming the newbies? CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.12.24 04:35:37 - [72] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Serene Repose wrote: It's a matter of the ratio between ISK sink to ISK faucet. When the ISK faucet is gushing the veteran players get out their buckets, barrels and resevoirs. When the ISK sinks are greater or the faucets are turned down, the new players come into an inflated market they can't afford. So, here comes your problem: How do you ISK sink the veterans without harming the newbies? Create artificial demand for Plex... and that is why CCP lets you character transfer, fly to iceland and all of that with PLEX, while at the same time they do power of 2 and 3 month half off new accounts. They want newbies to come in with a credit card, and get a heads up in the game by selling plex to us old farts. Problem is, newbies don't stay, old farts aren't really old they are just recycled names and skill points and at some point in time the inflation of the game hurt the newbies worse than expected. Couple that with a gross underestimation of the multibox crowd's willingness to leave the game and you have falling sub numbers, a confused plex market and newbies who won't stay past an interceptor.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 347	Posted - 2014.12.24 05:25:09 - [73] - Quote Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Serene Repose wrote: It's a matter of the ratio between ISK sink to ISK faucet. When the ISK faucet is gushing the veteran players get out their buckets, barrels and resevoirs. When the ISK sinks are greater or the faucets are turned down, the new players come into an inflated market they can't afford. So, here comes your problem: How do you ISK sink the veterans without harming the newbies? Create artificial demand for Plex... and that is why CCP lets you character transfer, fly to iceland and all of that with PLEX, while at the same time they do power of 2 and 3 month half off new accounts. They want newbies to come in with a credit card, and get a heads up in the game by selling plex to us old farts. Problem is, newbies don't stay, old farts aren't really old they are just recycled names and skill points and at some point in time the inflation of the game hurt the newbies worse than expected. Couple that with a gross underestimation of the multibox crowd's willingness to leave the game and you have falling sub numbers, a confused plex market and newbies who won't stay past an interceptor. If throw a handful of sand at the ground and draw lines between each grain I can create any picture I want.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 347	Posted - 2014.12.24 05:31:32 - [74] - Quote In reply to the OP; I like the idea as I like stability. I however would be afraid of the implications of its inroduction and when ever an over riding force is placed on a market the market attempts to find a way to compensate.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2619	Posted - 2014.12.24 06:33:07 - [75] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: [quote=Leia Stellate] Next year they will be breaking the 1b mark. No they won't. There are many individuals with thousands of plex stockpiled, and a great many more with hundreds of plex. And all of them want to sell at a maximum. That's why plex crashed harder than every in December - it dropped by nearly 200 million in less than a month. For those paying attention that is the real record, not the fact that plex failed to hit a billion isk. What December showed us is that the eve market on TQ cannot support plex at a billion isk with all of those lovely hoarders wanting to cash in on their "investment" (lol). The downside to this is that everyone knows exactly when to cash out the next time around, then again anyone with half a dose of common sense knew that already. Meh.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 1949	Posted - 2014.12.24 07:06:10 - [76] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: I hate to post in a plex thread but... It's like saying lets stop drilling for oil to lower the price of gas. You mean stop buying the oil that is being drilled to keep it in big tanks to sell whenever you need the money?
ggodhsup relocation LLC. 25	Posted - 2014.12.24 07:23:32 - [77] - Quote then i would buy it, trade it, and buy what i wanted.(which is why i did it in the first place). speculation is speculation. i was an econ student....your logic is grossly flawed. even with a background in agricultural econ i have one up on you. your theory is just stupid.....take a few classes and learn the things that make the "RL" world go round.....then i will give your eve speculation some ground. until then. refrain from posting please.
Areen Sassel 42	Posted - 2014.12.24 07:47:56 - [78] - Quote Leia Stellate wrote: Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value What rising price? The bubble burst; the interesting question is when the drop will be arrested and the price climb again. As far as I can see it, the only failure was that I wanted to short PLEX in November and there isn't really a good way to do that.
ggodhsup relocation LLC. 27	Posted - 2014.12.24 07:54:25 - [79] - Quote Areen Sassel wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value What rising price? The bubble burst; the interesting question is when the drop will be arrested and the price climb again. As far as I can see it, the only failure was that I wanted to short PLEX in November and there isn't really a good way to do that. i still have plex ready for sale. they will go back up.... i will sell.... i will make isk.... speculation is speculation. gnight. EDIT: o/
Areen Sassel 42	Posted - 2014.12.24 08:02:22 - [80] - Quote ggodhsup wrote: Areen Sassel wrote: Leia Stellate wrote: Maybe it could stop the rising price of PLEX. I think the biggest failure of the design of EVE Online is that PLEX can be traded unlimited, this makes PLEX has unparalleled speculation value What rising price? The bubble burst; the interesting question is when the drop will be arrested and the price climb again. As far as I can see it, the only failure was that I wanted to short PLEX in November and there isn't really a good way to do that. i still have plex ready for sale. I daresay a great many people do, but I don't see why you're quoting me before mentioning it.

Arisidana Amadari Traders 56	Posted - 2014.12.24 08:07:20 - [81] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Next year they will be breaking the 1b mark. No they won't. There are many individuals with thousands of plex stockpiled, and a great many more with hundreds of plex. And all of them want to sell at a maximum. That's why plex crashed harder than ever in December - it dropped by nearly 200 million in less than a month. For those paying attention that is the real record, not the fact that plex failed to hit a billion isk. What December showed us is that the eve market on TQ cannot support plex at a billion isk with all of those lovely hoarders wanting to cash in on their "investment" (lol). The downside to this is that everyone knows exactly when to cash out the next time around, then again anyone with half a dose of common sense knew that already. Meh. I think you are over thinking it a bit, we've had the 'Black Friday' sale not long ago and now we have the Rhea sale, also it's Christmas and players probably drop a few bucks more on PLEX as usual. It's a buyers market at the moment, but I'm not afraid that the price will stay down there. It's definitely not speculators getting rid of stock, why should they?
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 645	Posted - 2014.12.24 11:25:04 - [82] - Quote Arisidana wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Next year they will be breaking the 1b mark. No they won't. There are many individuals with thousands of plex stockpiled, and a great many more with hundreds of plex. And all of them want to sell at a maximum. That's why plex crashed harder than ever in December - it dropped by nearly 200 million in less than a month. For those paying attention that is the real record, not the fact that plex failed to hit a billion isk. What December showed us is that the eve market on TQ cannot support plex at a billion isk with all of those lovely hoarders wanting to cash in on their "investment" (lol). The downside to this is that everyone knows exactly when to cash out the next time around, then again anyone with half a dose of common sense knew that already. Meh. I think you are over thinking it a bit, we've had the 'Black Friday' sale not long ago and now we have the Rhea sale, also it's Christmas and players probably drop a few bucks more on PLEX as usual. It's a buyers market at the moment, but I'm not afraid that the price will stay down there. It's definitely not speculators getting rid of stock, why should they? I agree and think it is an artificial drop. The mult-box ban, Black Friday, Christmas it is a minor flood that is driving the price down but will dry up. Then the steady inflation and price rises will kick in again. What I have my popcorn on standby for is the real drop. When you have PLEX traders that have been buying low, storing them up, tied up too much ISK in PLEX then there is a run on it to sell it off. Some of them will be literally sleeping when it happens and they will be stuck with PLEX that they would have to sell at a loss or keep holding onto for quite a long time. Another artificial one that could give them nightmares is another millionaire selling off loads of PLEX to fuel another null sec alliance war. Edit: This is a dip that is delaying the real crash that I want to see. CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Billy McCandless The McCandless Clan 467	Posted - 2014.12.24 11:29:14 - [83] - Quote aye carnt affrod pleggs becos aye jus myne felt spur rox. Chirpper is mai heyro and he is the felt spur kingge "Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4826	Posted - 2014.12.24 11:38:31 - [84] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Next year they will be breaking the 1b mark. No they won't. There are many individuals with thousands of plex stockpiled, and a great many more with hundreds of plex. And all of them want to sell at a maximum. That's why plex crashed harder than ever in December - it dropped by nearly 200 million in less than a month. For those paying attention that is the real record, not the fact that plex failed to hit a billion isk. What December showed us is that the eve market on TQ cannot support plex at a billion isk with all of those lovely hoarders wanting to cash in on their "investment" (lol). The downside to this is that everyone knows exactly when to cash out the next time around, then again anyone with half a dose of common sense knew that already. Meh. Uhhh... no. The PLEX price dropped because with the ISBoxer change coming in, (and no guarantee CCP won't take it further in the new year), the price would go through a temporary crash while supply and demand sorted itself out. In preparation for that, many market speculators dumped PLEX onto the market, causing the current slump. Once they decide the prices is as low as the think it will go, they'll buy back in, and the price will shoot back up. The "hoarders" know that PLEX prices will always go up, so they will only sell short term. Holding PLEX is far better than holding isk. PLEX always has and always will tick up in price long term. Next year, >1b/plex, guaranteed. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.12.24 12:28:41 - [85] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Next year they will be breaking the 1b mark. No they won't. There are many individuals with thousands of plex stockpiled, and a great many more with hundreds of plex. And all of them want to sell at a maximum. That's why plex crashed harder than ever in December - it dropped by nearly 200 million in less than a month. For those paying attention that is the real record, not the fact that plex failed to hit a billion isk. What December showed us is that the eve market on TQ cannot support plex at a billion isk with all of those lovely hoarders wanting to cash in on their "investment" (lol). The downside to this is that everyone knows exactly when to cash out the next time around, then again anyone with half a dose of common sense knew that already. Meh. Uhhh... no. The PLEX price dropped because with the ISBoxer change coming in, (and no guarantee CCP won't take it further in the new year), the price would go through a temporary crash while supply and demand sorted itself out. In preparation for that, many market speculators dumped PLEX onto the market, causing the current slump. Once they decide the prices is as low as the think it will go, they'll buy back in, and the price will shoot back up. The "hoarders" know that PLEX prices will always go up, so they will only sell short term. Holding PLEX is far better than holding isk. PLEX always has and always will tick up in price long term. Next year, >1b/plex, guaranteed. This is simply not true. Sales volumes have not increased or decreased significantly. In fact we are still slightly over supplied as we have been for most of the year. That is why I have always said Plex is not a good short term, and a very dubious long term investment. The demand for Plex has not changed (until next month) and the price kept going up with higher levels of supply. It was obvious and still is obvious that as much as half or more plex bought on the market is sitting in asset hangers now, which means if you aren't the big boy, and aren't the first seller, you are going to get screwed.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4827	Posted - 2014.12.24 12:38:00 - [86] - Quote Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: This is simply not true. Sales volumes have not increased or decreased significantly. In fact we are still slightly over supplied as we have been for most of the year. That is why I have always said Plex is not a good short term, and a very dubious long term investment. The demand for Plex has not changed (until next month) and the price kept going up with higher levels of supply. It was obvious and still is obvious that as much as half or more plex bought on the market is sitting in asset hangers now, which means if you aren't the big boy, and aren't the first seller, you are going to get screwed. Some people cycle PLEX as the prices goes up some simply hold them. The volumes will balance out as some who cycle PLEX stop cycling them and hold the isk while the hoarders sell some of their stock prior to the drop. Volume is deceiving because you can't see how many unique PLEX are being sold. And yes, the demand will have changed already. If a player was going to buy their PLEX this month to keep their accounts running and change their mind based on the ISBoxer changes, they would have already not bought it. They won't be waiting until next month to not buy it. Someone who's account ends today for example would have been likely to have bought the PLEX to extend it a week ago, and are unlikely to buy a PLEX for 7 days of play for all of their accounts. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Toad The Hitchhiker Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.12.24 12:53:08 - [87] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: This is simply not true. Sales volumes have not increased or decreased significantly. In fact we are still slightly over supplied as we have been for most of the year. That is why I have always said Plex is not a good short term, and a very dubious long term investment. The demand for Plex has not changed (until next month) and the price kept going up with higher levels of supply. It was obvious and still is obvious that as much as half or more plex bought on the market is sitting in asset hangers now, which means if you aren't the big boy, and aren't the first seller, you are going to get screwed. Some people cycle PLEX as the prices goes up some simply hold them. The volumes will balance out as some who cycle PLEX stop cycling them and hold the isk while the hoarders sell some of their stock prior to the drop. Volume is deceiving because you can't see how many unique PLEX are being sold. And yes, the demand will have changed already. If a player was going to buy their PLEX this month to keep their accounts running and change their mind based on the ISBoxer changes, they would have already not bought it. They won't be waiting until next month to not buy it. Someone who's account ends today for example would have been likely to have bought the PLEX to extend it a week ago, and are unlikely to buy a PLEX for 7 days of play for all of their accounts. Assuming they didn't have a buffer plex, or that their character already sold. I would wager that the mass flood of mining and ishtar pilots on the bazaar means I would rather extend into January, not use my character for half a month but fetch an extra billion in the market when the bazaar prices return to stable. I don't doubt people cycle plexes, however historically we have sold plexes on the market than anyone could have ever hoped to have needed in this game, meaning that they were sold for speculation. As others have stated, there are characters whose entire wealth is tied into plex and they have hundreds. Plex has no where to go in the short term but down, and long term we are going to see more and more of these bubble breaks landing small time traders of plex in a pool of tears. I don't think we will see a normal price of 1bil plex next year, in fact I would say 750-800 will be our top end.
Greg Inglis Storm Planet 4	Posted - 2014.12.24 13:20:57 - [88] - Quote plex trader tears are delicious
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 4827	Posted - 2014.12.24 14:34:27 - [89] - Quote Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: Assuming they didn't have a buffer plex, or that their character already sold. I would wager that the mass flood of mining and ishtar pilots on the bazaar means I would rather extend into January, not use my character for half a month but fetch an extra billion in the market when the bazaar prices return to stable. To be honest, very few people are quitting over it, and many of the ones that are won't be selling most of their characters either just to keep them or because they know that the price for them will be depressed. Seriously, go speak to the multiboxing communities. Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: I don't doubt people cycle plexes, however historically we have sold plexes on the market than anyone could have ever hoped to have needed in this game, meaning that they were sold for speculation. Yes... which is why the current drop in price is mostly attributed to speculators. If you actually lok at the graphs, it's pretty clear someone knew this was coming. About 2 weeks before it was annouced, the price suddenly shot up from 850m to 970 or so, then on the day the announcement was made, trade volumes were about double normal for a few days, smashing the price back down. Realistically the "normal" price of PLEX (ignoring speculation if it was moving at it's normal pace) should be around 860-870m. It only looks like a huge difference right now because it got forced up to 970 prior to this drop. Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: As others have stated, there are characters whose entire wealth is tied into plex and they have hundreds. Plex has no where to go in the short term but down, and long term we are going to see more and more of these bubble breaks landing small time traders of plex in a pool of tears. I don't think we will see a normal price of 1bil plex next year, in fact I would say 750-800 will be our top end. Hundreds is an understatement. And I'm not sure what you are smoking, but I want some of it. No way will next years stable PLEX price be down on current prices. Even if you ignore the fact that PLEX prices has always gone up long term, you have to ask yourself: If the biggest market traders buy into PLEX, do you really think they've got it wrong? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3112	Posted - 2014.12.24 16:43:23 - [90] - Quote If and when you have a serious and well worded proposal for the betterment of EvE, please feel free to post it in the Features & Ideas Discussion part of the forum. Thread locked. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department



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