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Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.11 18:47:00 - [1] Say, for arguments sake, you have become fully skilled in both missiles and hybrids.... Which one would you keep? And why? Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Natasha Kerensky The Company Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:00:00 - [2] Missles. Simply because i HATE the way railguns sound. pew pew pew its so lame
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:03:00 - [3] If CCP just gave me level 5 in hybrids, or missiles, and all the support skills? I'd take hybrid, just because It'd be less work when I want to train lasers or projectiles. Otherwise, I'd take (well, keep) missiles. Looking forward to assault missiles so I have another type to spec to 4 ccp. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Elenath Gallente The Vindaloo Enema Disasters	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:06:00 - [4] I'd swap my 12 mill in Missiles to Gunnery and Hybrids. I PVP full time... and missile flight time, while not being an issue in missions and ratting, is a huge disadvantage in PVP. Instant damage at any range is so incredible after firing Missiles for three years +
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:09:00 - [5] Edited by: Mal Hondo on 11/09/2006 19:09:57 well, ill be perfectly honest with you lurvly forum hooores, i have hardly trained any of the missile or gunnery skills. Ive trained caldari frigate 5, cruiser 5, bs 3, and electronic upgrades to 5. oooh and drones 5. 7.5 mil SP's btw. Would you think that hybrids will be the preferred option after the Rokh has been implemented, or will the Drake make missiles even more worth while? Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Elenath I'd swap my 12 mill in Missiles to Gunnery and Hybrids. I PVP full time... and missile flight time, while not being an issue in missions and ratting, is a huge disadvantage in PVP. Instant damage at any range is so incredible after firing Missiles for three years + that is total crap at 200km yes they take 20seconds, but why do u need to fight at that range, 90% of my fighting and 90% of otehrs fighting is SUB 20km. 2 sec lag? big deal, you get full damage, no tracking, can chose dmg type, can allign, no cap weapon system, can fit stabs and tank in mids with gank too! crow [best cepter] Raven [best close range and mid range BS! hands down tbh] cerb [3dmg mods, 2 stabs, no tracking worries, great tank, 5x heavy missiles t2 + large extender + medium nosf!!] also you have highest resistance to ecm
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:24:00 - [7] Edited by: Mal Hondo on 11/09/2006 19:25:11 Originally by: xlop Originally by: Elenath stuff more stuff this is not a debate on who is wrong, merely a personal opinion on what u would prefer, after training both Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Daz Sampson	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:33:00 - [8] I have both and only use rails
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:38:00 - [9] Originally by: xlop that is total crap No it isn't Originally by: xlop at 200km yes they take 20seconds, but why do u need to fight at that range, 90% of my fighting and 90% of otehrs fighting is SUB 20km. 2 sec lag? big deal, you get full damage, no tracking, can chose dmg type, can allign, no cap weapon system, can fit stabs and tank in mids with gank too! Strange enough, sometimes battles are not within 20km. This might not be true in your case but for many others it is. While missiles don't need tracking they also can't deal full damage to ships smaller than battlecruisers without painters, turrets can. And you can not tank, gank and stab at the same time, you can use your lows for BCUs or WCS not both as missile boats tend to have limited amount of lows and usually require atleast one fitting mod. Originally by: xlop crow [best cepter] Raven [best close range and mid range BS! hands down tbh] cerb [3dmg mods, 2 stabs, no tracking worries, great tank, 5x heavy missiles t2 + large extender + medium nosf!!] The crow is great. The rest of you statements are moronic at best. Originally by: xlop also you have highest resistance to ecm ... we all get jammed But to reply to the OP, I'd take hybrids over missiles if I could. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.11 19:42:00 - [10] And what effect do you believe the Drake and Rokh will make to this? Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:08:00 - [11] id keep the guns not the missiles, cause missiles are boring in pvp. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:17:00 - [12] I have 7.6+ million SP in gunnery and about 70 thousand SP in missiles. I wouldn't have it any other way --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy
Elenath Gallente The Vindaloo Enema Disasters	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:22:00 - [13] Originally by: xlop rabble rabble rabble I'd make some comment to the effect that your response was childish and uninformed... but so far it looks like everyone else has done that on my behalf.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:27:00 - [14] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 11/09/2006 20:29:44 Guns is alot more fun. You can use close-range guns or long-range guns and also switch damage type. Also with my good gunnery skills, medium artillery hit for more damage than heavy missiles if I pick the correct ammo type. I dont have large tech 2 guns yet, because im a Vagabond freak going for the Sleipnir and that line of ships. :) I only use missiles with the Raven for missions, and I see that more as a grind. There is no fun in spamming missiles, but its effective. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Brem Watson Caldari Nexus-6	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:28:00 - [15] I enjoy missles more than guns at this point but I will be training up my gun skills to create my Railrox in a few months. Most of my skill points are deticated to missiles because I'm a Manticore *****.
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.11 20:56:00 - [16] I have 8m sp in Hybrids/Gunnery and 3.6m SP in missiles, only missile spec skills i dont have is cruise and torps and thats only cuz the only BS missiles i use are on a raven for ratting. I like what I have and wouldnt change anything. Alot of times I use smaller missiles for support (I use 1-2 heavy launchers on my mega, and 2 assault launchers on my eagle). Most everything I fly is gun based or is mostly guns with some missiles. I generally prefer even the caldari ships with guns over the missiles boats (merlin over kestrel, moa over caracal, soon the Rokh over the Raven hehe). Mostly I stick with Gallente BS's tho.
RichoDemus Eve University	Posted - 2006.09.11 21:25:00 - [17] This thread is just what I need, I'm still trying to decide what I'm going to train for. for the hybrid turret caldari players, which ships do you fly in pvp? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Ciphero KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.09.11 21:26:00 - [18] I find missile flight time annoying, but not to the extent that others appear to. That said, it has the upside of always hitting (exceptional circumstances - e.g. defenders, ceptors outrunning etc - not considered), which is no small repayment. I'd take hybrids, but only just.
Nocturnal Prince Tech 2 Holdings Limited	Posted - 2006.09.11 21:36:00 - [19] Missiles for PvE, Hybrids for PvP (not counting the crow, its missiles are fine for pvp). But having said that Im currently skilling up for Minm ships as they hold a lot more cards in pvp. Mixed damage types with instant damage, faster ships and a nice mix of shield/armour tanking to keep people guessing. Not bad ships at all, amazing considering the slaves made them out of bakeofoil and duct tape. Boost Amarr or nerf the rest, give us this 'balance' that you keep talking about.
VeNT Minmatar Freelancer Union	Posted - 2006.09.11 21:44:00 - [20] both! -------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet!
Siobahn	Posted - 2006.09.12 01:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Natasha Kerensky Missles. Simply because i HATE the way railguns sound. pew pew pew its so lame I actually like the way they sound. Especially the medium and large omes. BLADAAAMMM
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.09.12 02:45:00 - [22] Guns, hands down. I hate flight time, can't tell you how many people have warped away just in the nick of time. Also, Guns do better damage in my opinion.
Nybbas A Place for Valen	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:19:00 - [23] Edited by: Nybbas on 12/09/2006 08:19:13 missiles, 100% hands down no argument. Being able to do full damage at 180km with javelin torps in a raven and laugh at a blasterthron who is trying to snipe with spike at that range is priceless, especially since he realizes whether he is at that range or at 50km, im going to mop the floor with him. Sure turrets can hit smaller ships... if they arent moving, and are over 50km, so this rules out any close range setups, javelin torps will hit cruisers just fine also, not to mention my setup with torps is going to be AMAZING from 0km-200km, so why would i want anything else? Missiles hands down, coming from someone with over 12 mil in gunnery, and a new achura alt that is currently training (got a couple mil in missiles already) p.s. There is a reason Cerbs are as expensive as they are.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.12 09:57:00 - [24] Originally by: RichoDemus This thread is just what I need, I'm still trying to decide what I'm going to train for. for the hybrid turret caldari players, which ships do you fly in pvp? Harpy and Eagle. Rokh will be my Number 1 combat ship when it comes out. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy
Makaera Koshito Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:44:00 - [25] Edited by: Makaera Ko**o on 12/09/2006 10:44:51 Missiles are more versatile, being able to switch damage types at any time. T2 Missiles can be used against large ships or small ships, again, switching on the fly. Guns only hit with two types of damage, sometimes miss and turrets have roughly twice the fitting requirements that launchers do, leaving you with much less PG to work with for a tank. Missiles are an "I win" button once you get them trained to a good level. But, I've escaped from a missile shooter because of flight time. Additionally, the Gunnery skills translate to all types of guns, with only a couple weeks of training time to be effective at a new type of gun. And, I love the Harpy. Gunnery... all the way.
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:55:00 - [26] actualy both ... I use cruise missile scorp for belt ratting and I hop into rail/blaster moa or ferox when PvP however I use a caracal just because it's cheap to die in :-)) Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Rick Dentill Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.12 10:57:00 - [27] You can keep your missiles and your guns. Drones 4TW _______ http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd
Karbowiak World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:35:00 - [28] missiles ftw!.. my ferox got nber nice tank, and i spew 5 missiles out, at 5second intervals, T2 Heavies <3 havent seen anything stand up to it yet, hell even a sniping Mega cant take my shield tank down, and when i get into range of my missiles - he run.. but what ever, id prefer missiles over turrets ANY day! I DOMINATE YOU!!
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:48:00 - [29] Missiles because I don't like the Caldari rail platforms. The Raptor sucks (mixed weaponry anyway, same deal for Merlin) The Harpy is ok but too slow The Moa is the worst tier 3 cruiser The Eagle is only good at sniping (and even that...) The Ferox is pathetic damage wise If the Rokh is great (not sure it will be at close/mid range without any damage bonus) I might be happy to have specialized both rails and blasters of all sizes, if not I might aswell train up Gallente. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Daz Sampson	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Karbowiak missiles ftw!.. my ferox got nber nice tank, and i spew 5 missiles out, at 5second intervals, T2 Heavies <3 havent seen anything stand up to it yet, hell even a sniping Mega cant take my shield tank down, and when i get into range of my missiles - he run.. but what ever, id prefer missiles over turrets ANY day! probably not a good example
Sniper FC Gallente Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:23:00 - [31] Originally by: Nybbas Edited by: Nybbas on 12/09/2006 08:19:13 .... and laugh at a blasterthron who is trying to snipe with spike at that range is priceless..... erm hate to burst ur bubble but a few things 1 a blasterthorn would just warp away and carry on with his day, unless u have tacklers and if thats the case why are u so far away. 2. blastrons don't use spike ammo, they use void or null 3 its a sniperthron that uses spike ammo if this was me I would take guns over missiles, much more fun and versitile. :D ----------------------------------------------- Want to join a fun corp that do most things in eve Join "suicidal" channel and have a chat
Hoshi Masurao	Posted - 2006.09.12 12:56:00 - [32] I think as a support weapon system, missiles are ideal, and should be trained by all races. However, having spent near on a year training up missile skills, and only recently training Small Rails for my Harpy, the benefits are clear. Now that I have 3 types of T2 missiles, and good missile support skills, I think plowing time into a gunnery weapon system as my primary damage source is a must. Take a look at HACs. Muninn/Deimos/Zealot would scare the pants off me in either a Cerb or Eagle (with equivalent T2 weapon skills). Maybe T2 Med rails/Heavy missiles are gimped?... just a thought. PvE-wise, missiles are hard to beat. Pick your damage type and never miss a shot within range. My raven with T2 torps launchers eats any 0.0 rats for breakfast, now I think its time to train guns to do the same in PvP...
St Dragon Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:13:00 - [33] For me personnally well i love missiles a lot but in the end on ballance id say Hybrids is what id keep. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:36:00 - [34] Hard to say until I've had a go with the Rohk. I trained missiles because there just wasn't a caldari hybrid based BS. (No, the scorp doesn't count). I've quite liked flying a harpy, but ... well due to sucky gunnery skills have mostly stayed away from railgun configurations.
Nybbas A Place for Valen	Posted - 2006.09.12 17:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Hoshi Masurao I think as a support weapon system, missiles are ideal, and should be trained by all races. However, having spent near on a year training up missile skills, and only recently training Small Rails for my Harpy, the benefits are clear. Now that I have 3 types of T2 missiles, and good missile support skills, I think plowing time into a gunnery weapon system as my primary damage source is a must. Take a look at HACs. Muninn/Deimos/Zealot would scare the pants off me in either a Cerb or Eagle (with equivalent T2 weapon skills). Maybe T2 Med rails/Heavy missiles are gimped?... just a thought. PvE-wise, missiles are hard to beat. Pick your damage type and never miss a shot within range. My raven with T2 torps launchers eats any 0.0 rats for breakfast, now I think its time to train guns to do the same in PvP... a cerberus who doesnt beat a deimos every time, is a crappy pilot, starting from any range... and also i would like to see which of these ships can still hit at decent damage at over 120km. Also, anyone who says missiles are gimped better either be joking, or be a complete newbie, because well... gimped how? please do explain.
Humera Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.12 21:23:00 - [36] Hmmm, considering that I have most of the gunnery support skills already at lvl 5 and not so many days away from large hybrids lvl 5 I will be getting a Rokh. Will however continue to plow on with the missile skills though and do missions in my Caldari Navy Raven since it offers a considerably larger shield than the ordinary Raven. I was led to believe that the stats were going to be virtually unchanged when one compares the Rokh to the Raven. Or am I wrong? ---------------------------------------------------- "Ruck, Tackle and Maul. And thats just getting a Beer"
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.12 21:31:00 - [37] Originally by: Nybbas a cerberus who doesnt beat a deimos every time, is a crappy pilot, starting from any range... Yeah, right ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Majin82 Caldari Arkhangelos Alliance Naval Intelligence Arkhangelos Command	Posted - 2006.09.12 22:26:00 - [38] I went the missile way, it is a lot faster to get good missile skills over good turret skills. Also I like always hitting! ------------------------------------- Sammael's Legion ARCH
Elenath Gallente The Vindaloo Enema Disasters	Posted - 2006.09.12 22:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Nybbas a cerberus who doesnt beat a deimos every time, is a crappy pilot, starting from any range. Not that I ever credit your posts with much information... since you seem to be more interested in stating your opinions as facts... but that single quote is one of the most foolish statements I've ever read on these forums.
Nybbas A Place for Valen	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Elenath Originally by: Nybbas a cerberus who doesnt beat a deimos every time, is a crappy pilot, starting from any range. Not that I ever credit your posts with much information... since you seem to be more interested in stating your opinions as facts... but that single quote is one of the most foolish statements I've ever read on these forums. So what exactly does a deimos have on a cerb, that would help it out in a fight? please do tell me where the deimos gets the hps to outlast the cerbs damage, WHILE doing enough itself (mind you a deimos main damage type kin/therm is the cerbs strongest, and any decent cerb pilot will be running a decent tank) While any deimos pilots tank is going to be crap if they want to do any damage... So PLEASE do tell me how a deimos possibly beats a cerb?
El Yatta Caldari Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:21:00 - [41] Originally by: Elenath Originally by: Nybbas a cerberus who doesnt beat a deimos every time, is a crappy pilot, starting from any range. Not that I ever credit your posts with much information... since you seem to be more interested in stating your opinions as facts... but that single quote is one of the most foolish statements I've ever read on these forums. Actually I'd agree with Nybbas. I flew both in regular PVP for nearly a year before I got bored with the cerb's dullness and fed up with the Deimos's crapness. (the price rise in that time on both didnt help either!). Frankly, there is no Deimos fit usable in PVP (i.e. must have a MWD) which can tank for crap, i've tried EANM/DC, active hardeners, whatever, and I still feel better off with two mag stabs and just a single repper, and that will never tank a Cerberus, it will simply tear through you while absorbing your damage on its large extender (a cerb without a large extender is a bad fit, have tested this over and over), and easily able to boost back up with a large booster. A cerb can tank very well, and deal any damage type (although it does lose one of its damage bonuses), easily chewing through the Deimos's resist holes, while fitting fury missiles (as it should be cap injecting). The deimos however, cant change its types, but is stuck dealing the second-worst combo (Kin therm) against the cerb's resists, or if it uses t2 ammo, the worst (therm kin). Without EW on either side, a properly fit tanked cerberus will slaughter a properly fit tank/damage deimos. ---\|\|---
AaronP Omega Fleet Enterprises Omega Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:25:00 - [42] Originally by: xlop Originally by: Elenath I'd swap my 12 mill in Missiles to Gunnery and Hybrids. I PVP full time... and missile flight time, while not being an issue in missions and ratting, is a huge disadvantage in PVP. Instant damage at any range is so incredible after firing Missiles for three years + that is total crap at 200km yes they take 20seconds, but why do u need to fight at that range, 90% of my fighting and 90% of otehrs fighting is SUB 20km. 2 sec lag? big deal, you get full damage, no tracking, can chose dmg type, can allign, no cap weapon system, can fit stabs and tank in mids with gank too! crow [best cepter] Raven [best close range and mid range BS! hands down tbh] cerb [3dmg mods, 2 stabs, no tracking worries, great tank, 5x heavy missiles t2 + large extender + medium nosf!!] also you have highest resistance to ecm Raven the best close to med range? LMAO I guess your forgetting the Domi and Blaster Mega! 1v1 You'll be hard pressed to find a BS that can beat a properly flow Domi.
Nybbas A Place for Valen	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:28:00 - [43] Originally by: El Yatta Originally by: Elenath Originally by: Nybbas a cerberus who doesnt beat a deimos every time, is a crappy pilot, starting from any range. Not that I ever credit your posts with much information... since you seem to be more interested in stating your opinions as facts... but that single quote is one of the most foolish statements I've ever read on these forums. Actually I'd agree with Nybbas. I flew both in regular PVP for nearly a year before I got bored with the cerb's dullness and fed up with the Deimos's crapness. (the price rise in that time on both didnt help either!). Frankly, there is no Deimos fit usable in PVP (i.e. must have a MWD) which can tank for crap, i've tried EANM/DC, active hardeners, whatever, and I still feel better off with two mag stabs and just a single repper, and that will never tank a Cerberus, it will simply tear through you while absorbing your damage on its large extender (a cerb without a large extender is a bad fit, have tested this over and over), and easily able to boost back up with a large booster. A cerb can tank very well, and deal any damage type (although it does lose one of its damage bonuses), easily chewing through the Deimos's resist holes, while fitting fury missiles (as it should be cap injecting). The deimos however, cant change its types, but is stuck dealing the second-worst combo (Kin therm) against the cerb's resists, or if it uses t2 ammo, the worst (therm kin). Without EW on either side, a properly fit tanked cerberus will slaughter a properly fit tank/damage deimos. a-men. And to the poster above me, the dommy is due to get extremely nerfed, and i agree to this, at the moment its overpowered (i mean come on it can beat a raven!!) and uhmmm other than dommy, a raven will beat any ship in close quarters combat, a blasterthron really does not have much of a prayer against a equally skilled raven pilot at close range. It used to be MUCH worse, but with a few recent changes the thron doesn't get its face smashed in AS bad... but still fighting close range against a raven is nothing less than an uphill battle. Anyone who tells you otherwise has no experience in the situation.
Kelgen Thann SUBLIME L.L.C. Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:29:00 - [44] Edited by: Kelgen Thann on 12/09/2006 23:30:53 I can use T2 Siege, T2 Cruiser, T2 Rockets, Small rail spec, MEdium rail spec and large rail spec. I prefer missles for PvE, and Rails for PvP. If two fleets know where each other are they tend to use T2 ammo and long range engagements. If a Fleet doesn't know they are being chased or run into a trap then it's close range. Even then you jump a dictor into a fleet at a gate within 20km (50/50 chance if they are 21km away) It drops a sphere, and the other fleet warps in at 200km and starts opening fire. Rails are more useful atm in PvP.

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