| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Dumus
Amarr
Veto.
   |
Posted - 2006.09.12 10:45:00 -
[1]
I have searched for a topic that covers my idea but cannot find one so if you know of one point me to it and I will delete this post.
Here is my idea.
I love elite frigate fighting. For me they are the best ships in the game. They are fast, have good resists and are fairly well balanced, with a few exceptions. Which is how it should be. The Crow for instance IMO is the best inty, the Enyo is the best AF and all the Amarr frigs are the best looking No probs for me that some ships are better than others, as long as they are not a millions miles apart of course.
So to the point. Frigate fights, and cruisers for that matter, are too point and click. Most of the time you approach the target trying to keep transversal, then obit them at your optimal, or just under. Result, most skilled (Skill points in the right place) and best setup ship wins.
My  idea is to completely remove from the game the option to orbit moving objects.
You would have to 'fly' your ship. So for instance an interceptor, because it is so fast, would have to make 'fly by's' strafing the enemy as it passed. Assault Frigate pilots would have to be clicking in space to try and maintain an orbit. I can see the dogfights that would happen in my mind now If you went up against cruisers and Battleships etc you would have to be careful to not allow your ship to stray into the enemy's optimum ranges, and maintain transversel. You would, through practice, become highly 'skilled' as a frigate pilot. Not just how many skill-points you had or how well your ship was setup.
Another benefit, and I believe a major one, is that fights would last much, much longer. As a pirate my victim would have a chance to call for backup because it would be harder for me to kill him. My warp disruptor would go offline if I didn't stay in range and he could escape. I firmly believe that people would be less likely to fit stabs in their lows as a result. Purely because they could have more chance to either escape or call in backup. I also believe it would put some of the fairness back into the game.
I do understand that I do not know it all and welcome your counter arguments.
Just try and be nice though
---------------------------
|
|
Saucerhead
Forum Moderator
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 10:56:00 -
[2]
I like that idea myself.
--
|
|
MellaRinn
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:07:00 -
[3]
Humm... it is an interesting idea, but imho not the most practical one. There are both pro- and counter-arguments, let me start with counter:
- It would severely Counter-Strike-IZE playing Eve. To the point where the person hacking the mouse most would always win, regardless of the setup
- it would involve introducing much more controls and making the ship more responsive to directional commands, which I am sure not everyone would like, seeing as the interface is hugely difficult to fully master already. (I mean most of the 1year+ pilots still learn the tricks of the interface and mechanics that closely follow).
- also, by removing the option to orbit moving objects, we would hurt a huge part of EVE playerbase, who do missions and other forms of PvE (of course easily avoidable by only removing the option to orbit player controlled ships)
On to the pro arguments:
- it would add much more player involvement into the dogfights and might involve really good animation sequences to spice things up for videos ♥
- younger players who show full dedication could learn quickly and compete with t2-skilled pilots with more ease (which, tbh, might well be a counter-argument, as at the end of the day an old player should also be rewarded by the fact his ship is more likely to win with a nublar)
Overall, the idea is interesting, but to be perfectly honest, I don't think it would float in EVE as we know it now.
Click |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:16:00 -
[4]
Mmph... Nice idea... but I'd prefer it if we didnt have to click so much... maybe hold the mouse button down to move n turn...
Izo Azlion.
---
|
hUssmann
Caldari
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:32:00 -
[5]
If you ever played freelancer, that's the only type i could probably deal with.
Some nice ideas though
___________________________
Free wigs/hair for caldari baldies, Now in Watermelon red!
|
Scagga Laebetrovo
Minmatar
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:33:00 -
[6]
I think that battleship we took down in inties took a good five minutes to die. However frig wars ftfw
|
Dumus
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/09/2006 11:56:24
Just another thought I had.
Another benefit would be, I believe, that it would encourage team play. Based on the fact that it would be more difficult to pin down and kill an oponant. I can imagins the fleet battles now. All the frigs and cruisers dogfighting in and out of the slow ass BS's.
Pew pew pew <amaar inty holy light lazooors
Keep that lock you muppet!!!
brrrrr brrrrrr <jaguar auto canons blaring
chasing...almost...there...
GET HIM, GET HIM,
phoosh phoosh phoosh <caldari missile spammer
BBooooooom bang splinter
'warpdrive active'
phew got out just in time.
Goddamn that was close.
---------------------------
|
MellaRinn
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:55:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Dumus
Pew pew pew <amaar inty holy light lazooors
brrrrr brrrrrr <jaguar auto canons baring
chasing...almost...there...
phoosh phoosh phoosh <caldari missile spammer
BBooooooom bang splinter
'warpdrive active'
phew got out just in time.
Goddamn that was close.
Where are my blasterzorz!!!one 
Click |
Grimwalius d'Antan
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:56:00 -
[9]
I would have to disapprove of this train of thought, not because the removal of orbit is an entirely bad thing, but simply because you have no reasonable alternative. Constant double-clicking is not the answer and I can only imagine the lag related issues that may arise. Internet connectivity will become a much larger issue than it is now (since the current way of fighting is not very bandwidth intensive) and generally your computer performance becomes much more important (sloppy FPS can totally mess this up by making certain clicks not register).
It is a good idea in the sense that it makes interceptor combat much different and much more player skill-based than before (not saying interceptor combat is easy in any way as it is now though), but it would require some entirely new way of controlling the game and that is a complicated task. Eve was never a twitch-based game, and Im sure most of it's players prefers it staying that way.
(PS. The Enyo isn't the best AF. =) )
Griefing is to ruin a friendly game, which Eve is not. |
Dumus
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 11:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
(PS. The Enyo isn't the best AF. =) )
Meh noob
---------------------------
|
|
|
Dumus
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:11:00 -
[11]
as we already do to a certain degree do lots of double clicking in space during a dogfight I do not think it would add to the lag.
What about directional buttons on the overview? make left turn, right turn, up, down, bank turns left an right, and of course you would have to have the Barrel rolls and loop de loops Aww man it would be cool I could be top gun in space
Yes I am 41 years old and love pew pew shooty shooty games so what!!!
---------------------------
|
Dumus
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:11:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dumus on 12/09/2006 12:12:03
double post
---------------------------
|
sb404
Caldari
3240 Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:36:00 -
[13]
I'm all for formation and flight manoeuvres, but removing the orbit functions would encourage missile setups, seriously gimp lasers, plus everything mentioned about lag and the carpal syndrome from doubleclicking like crazy monkeys.
though if it ever comes through, I would like the orbit function to me replaced by a match speed option.
|
Dumus
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 12:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: sb404
I'm all for formation and flight manoeuvres, but removing the orbit functions would encourage missile setups, seriously gimp lasers, plus everything mentioned about lag and the carpal syndrome from doubleclicking like crazy monkeys.
To a certain extent I would agree. But I think a simple adjustment to damage amounts and tracking would be all the balancing that would be required.
Originally by: sb404
though if it ever comes through, I would like the orbit function to me replaced by a match speed option.
I like that idea!
---------------------------
|
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 14:34:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 12/09/2006 14:35:25
Originally by: sb404
though if it ever comes through, I would like the orbit function to me replaced by a match speed option.
Its allready in there. Just use the "stay at range". Takes a few tries before the ship is totally aligend, but it auto-adjust compared to hitting return all the time to keep it matched
Its a good idea, and has a simple implementation. Inties will have a hard time holding down another ship with MWD's blazing, perhaps to the point of making inties useless?
|
Ginaz
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.12 15:41:00 -
[16]
does anybody remember Jumpgate?
Let us fly the ships by using mouse and joystick like in the old days of Jumpgate (somehow to mother of Eve) and make the point+click pendant just an option, of course without the "orbit at" and "keep at range" stuff to balance it out.
Video: 'Behind enemy lines'
Queen of the Amazones |
Grimwalius d'Antan
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 10:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dumus
as we already do to a certain degree do lots of double clicking in space during a dogfight I do not think it would add to the lag.
I don't think it would add significant lag, but rather that the already existing lag will make this method hardly playable. How many times havn't you heard "I died because my ship would not turn when I wanted it to and it ended up at 15m/s transversal" ? How many times hasn't it happened to you? Did you ever assume anything but lag caused this?
Something else someone brough up in this thread is that it will be near impossible to keep scramblers on someone, and it will be way too easy to get out of scrambler range. Fighting in this game occurs at such ranges (even in inty combat) that the enemy ship is merely a blimp on a black canvas, so you can't really effectively tell which way he is aligned and which way he's actually travelling. If you misclick or misinterpret your enemy for merely a second you'll probably end up some 6km off. Before you can react AND THE SERVER CAN REACT to your change of direction, you will have lost the scramble points on him.
Not to mention, how would inty vs inty combat play out? There's a reason why there's so much autonavigation in Eve, and that is because a mere human isn't capable of piloting at 3km/s. Imagine having two of them trying to stick close to eachother, they'd definately blow right past eachother the whole time. Close range combat is dead, everyone would fit for long range fighting where it is easier to get a feel for what's going on and there's generally less need to doubleclick 6 times per second.
Griefing is to ruin a friendly game, which Eve is not. |
Da Ram
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 10:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dumus
as we already do to a certain degree do lots of double clicking in space during a dogfight I do not think it would add to the lag.
What about directional buttons on the overview? make left turn, right turn, up, down, bank turns left an right, and of course you would have to have the Barrel rolls and loop de loops Aww man it would be cool I could be top gun in space
Yes I am 41 years old and love pew pew shooty shooty games so what!!!
There is a possible compromise between you wanting more diversity and dealing with lag /bandwidth.
Allow players to set up and store a number of certain sequence of manouvers the ship will do and then make those "moves" available by clicking say one out of three manouver icons to start that.
Make it so it can autorepeat or be performed only once.
e.g.
(1) [bank left, increase speed to 50% max, approach target, keep at 2000m, full stop and reverse at 100 % speed. ]
(2) [dive, after 4000m turn right while decreasing speed to 25 %, climb and accel to 100 %]
etc..
|
SGT chedder
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 11:12:00 -
[19]
There is a possible compromise between you wanting more diversity and dealing with lag /bandwidth.
Allow players to set up and store a number of certain sequence of manouvers the ship will do and then make those "moves" available by clicking say one out of three manouver icons to start that.
Make it so it can autorepeat or be performed only once.
e.g.
(1) [bank left, increase speed to 50% max, approach target, keep at 2000m, full stop and reverse at 100 % speed. ]
(2) [dive, after 4000m turn right while decreasing speed to 25 %, climb and accel to 100 %]
etc..
I started reading this post and thinking to myself 'oh no someone who wants to change Eve to just another shoot them up'.
But i do like your idea Da Ram.
Just wished i had thought of it
|
Filuren
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 11:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Filuren on 15/09/2006 11:19:37
Originally by: Da Ram
Allow players to set up and store a number of certain sequence of manouvers the ship will do and then make those "moves" available by clicking say one out of three manouver icons to start that.
Make it so it can autorepeat or be performed only once.
- Captain, we have enemy incoming.
- Helm, apply flight pattern Delta 5, with attack sequence Bravo 4
I agree more to have a customizable flight patterns, ratther than direct control.
Eve is a strategic game and not an action shooter.
I know that this has made some people that I know, turn down and not playing eve, but I also know many people who play eve just because they don't have to be a quick FPS player to win the battle.
I'm one of the latter. ;-)
/Fil.
|
|
|
Tranklukator
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 11:41:00 -
[21]
Direct control = half of players die in lag. 200ms is normal outside western europe.
Combat manevuers is a good idea. Something like:
- Evasive piloting = -30% speed -30% sig radius
- Engine overload = +30% speed +30% sig radius
and so on. Must be learned as common skills. Dosens of variants possibe.
|
Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 14:47:00 -
[22]
Interesting idea, though I personally would not benefit since my reflexes are not that quick. Just make sure that fast-clicking abilities are not required for all types of fighting ships; as long as its just for frigates I can live with it, since I can concentrate on other ship types.
|
Andreask14
Sensus Numinis
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 16:31:00 -
[23]
More interactive flight has been proposed scince the beginning of EvE.
The problem is not so much the basic technical feasability, as Freelancer has shown, but the fact that EvE has server-side hit-detection and fights with dozens of people in one place.
In short, the current situation would make it impossible to handle the excess data required to enable manual flight without drowning everything in massive amounts of lag.
|
Spoon Thumb
Crystaline Green
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 17:47:00 -
[24]
/signed purely on basis of thread title
(having said that, you'd better have proposed a good idea :P)
***
Spoon Thumb - I can scoop ice cream with my thumbs!
|
Lienzo
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 18:19:00 -
[25]
There's so much lag, I'm happy when I am able to get the orbit button depressed. I don't even bother fitting for close range anymore. 20km or nothing.
There were a few periods in EVE's development when I could do some of those frigate moves, but not anymore.
Devs get to a new plateau -> players catch up and fubar it again. Pretty consistent cycle.
|
Da Ram
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 21:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Filuren
Edited by: Filuren on 15/09/2006 11:19:37
Originally by: Da Ram
Allow players to set up and store a number of certain sequence of manouvers the ship will do and then make those "moves" available by clicking say one out of three manouver icons to start that.
Make it so it can autorepeat or be performed only once.
- Captain, we have enemy incoming.
- Helm, apply flight pattern Delta 5, with attack sequence Bravo 4
I agree more to have a customizable flight patterns, ratther than direct control.
Eve is a strategic game and not an action shooter.
I know that this has made some people that I know, turn down and not playing eve, but I also know many people who play eve just because they don't have to be a quick FPS player to win the battle.
I'm one of the latter. ;-)
/Fil.
Well SGT chedder and Filuren - You exactly got it spot on *smiles*
The OPs idea is good but very hard to implement with the lag nowadays.
A more formalized version of his idea using pre-set (customised) flight patterns would greatly improve combat I believe.
To take it a step further you could have 1 - 5 of those pre-defined manouvers depending on skill ;)
|
Monica Foulkes
Hooligans Of War
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 23:04:00 -
[27]
More interactive control won't work without completely converting EVE into Freelancer. Also the current system can handle lag a lot better than direct control, just imagine a mixture of fleet battle lag and direct control? One thing is for sure, the battles would last forever since people will be all over the place shooting nothing.
The 8h skill buffer |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |