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d0sage Amarr Elite Six Industries The Confederation	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:44:00 - [1] Edited by: d0sage on 12/09/2006 13:45:24 I'll get straight to the point... i'm fed up of macro miners, isk farmers and complex farmers... so much so that i'm willing to stop playing until action is taken by CCP against them! So here it is, my final stand... if you are willing to show that macro players are causing a nuisance and are willing to stop playing for a little while.. be it a day or a week... this is a strike until something is done! I may be the only one to sign, but i'm sure i'm not the only person with this argument! So Sign below or agree to a strike to show your anger, and hopeufully CCP will see the loss in players and take action... ban me if you will, but this needs to be done! Signed - d0sage
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:47:00 - [2] Hooray! Less lag for the rest of us! The new BFG.
Malfeyus	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:50:00 - [3] Totally agree.
Gericault m0id Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Gericault m0id on 12/09/2006 13:54:18 Unfortunately, the only way such strike would have any effect is if you got a large number of people that sign this to stop subscribing for a while. To CCP a day/week of non-play by a few hundred people will go unnoticed with the exception of fewer lag petitions perhaps. In addition, although they're a pain to miners, macro-miners provide cheaper minerals which means cheaper ships for the player population which likes to fight. If there was an effective way to boot macro-miners there'll be a sudden hike in prices and a slow movement towards equilibrium as regular players turn to mining as a profitable activity again. Anyway. /signed, or something (although you're going to have a hard time getting BoB et al. out of all 10/10 complexes
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.12 13:55:00 - [5] But, but... killing macro miners is fun! :( --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
Icarus Starkiller	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:07:00 - [6] Read my sig. Nothing new... we've been poking CCP about this for over a year, and so far: No action has been taken. Used to be you could bump them out of position... but they've put in a stealth change. Bumping no longer works for crap, you barely even budge anything with a full speed MWD BS. - ISK Pharmers & Alt spies: A solution Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
Caleb Paine adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:12:00 - [7] The solution is to be happy about it when you find some, grab your hauler and get rich! \o/ -------------------------------- I'm looking for a good signature artist click here
St Dragon Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:15:00 - [8] Wont work as it takes time to ident macros as it is. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Caleb Paine The solution is to be happy about it when you find some, grab your hauler and get rich! \o/ If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Ship lovers click here
d0sage Amarr Elite Six Industries The Confederation	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:26:00 - [10] If they removed windowed mode would it stop macro's from running?
digital0verdose Caldari Megathorn Minning And Industry	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:47:00 - [11] Create canisters with the same name as the "macroer's" and destroy the beotch when he opens yours.
Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.12 14:52:00 - [12] I'd say macroers are far from the main problem lately, good thing though that different people work at different things at CCP though. And a strike won't help one bit, let me assure you, especially with the mighty numbers you brought.
Aceoil Anti-Macro Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Hellspawn01 If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Btw, signed. I wouldnt mind if the client had a small scanner to check if any macro proggys run in the backround to kill them. Stealing from a macro miner and getting rich gets one banned? How so? And if so, stealing is a perfectly normal part of gameplay. There is no reason I should be banned for my theifing acts. In response to the original poster, I have started an Anti-Macro coalition to put an end to macro miners as we know it. I intend to have 200 people in my corporation eventually, all stealing, bumping, and blowing up macro's every night. We can have lots and lots of fun with the macro's. It's time the players made a difference since CCP wants to sit on the bench.
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Aceoil Originally by: Hellspawn01 If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Btw, signed. I wouldnt mind if the client had a small scanner to check if any macro proggys run in the backround to kill them. Stealing from a macro miner and getting rich gets one banned? How so? And if so, stealing is a perfectly normal part of gameplay. There is no reason I should be banned for my theifing acts. Macro¦s are against the EULA and if you make profit from someone that used macros than you are also breaking the rules. Its been verified by a CCP employee. I try to find the quote for you. Ship lovers click here
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Too Kind on 12/09/2006 15:30:12 Originally by: Hellspawn01 Macro¦s are against the EULA and if you make profit from someone that used macros than you are also breaking the rules. Its been verified by a CCP employee. I try to find the quote for you. Think the main problem is that they don't know, if you are stealing or working together with them. Well, if they want you to petition them fist, I'd do that. But as long as even CCP isn't sure that they are macro miners and don't ban them, I think they can't ban you for stealing from a 'may be' macro miner. Would be a contradiction somehow. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Darktec Caldari QUANT Corp.	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Aceoil Originally by: Hellspawn01 If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Btw, signed. I wouldnt mind if the client had a small scanner to check if any macro proggys run in the backround to kill them. Stealing from a macro miner and getting rich gets one banned? How so? And if so, stealing is a perfectly normal part of gameplay. There is no reason I should be banned for my theifing acts. Macro¦s are against the EULA and if you make profit from someone that used macros than you are also breaking the rules. Its been verified by a CCP employee. I try to find the quote for you. No, all you have to do , is report them ONCE. then you can steal all you want. I used to do it in my old home system, macroers moved in, i reported/stole from them, made some bank, macro miners left So, just report them and go to town.
Yahtoja	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:37:00 - [17] Originally by: d0sage If they removed windowed mode would it stop macro's from running? And get an instant repeated podding if that happens, as you've suggested something that stops me playing the way I want. I play in wondowed mode so that I can do other stuff whilst being bored travelling, ratting etc.
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:37:00 - [18] To those who say you get banned from stealing from a macro, no you don't .. you can be punished if you steal from a macro without reporting first... So report a macro, steal .. and you get to keep everything.... To OP... think it have been almost a year since I first suggested what you did, I was so fed up by macrominers that you would not belive it, it did ruin my game experience as I like sitting mining and ****... that is where I was training towards, I where a miner and a producer... still am. To be honest I have seen less and less macrominers in domain, there still might be some but honestly I have not been looking much, and I definitly have not touched much ore... infact I have moved more and more into production and bought minerals straight from the market, now I only got a problem finding enough Mexallon for the most to my production. Well there is but the cost of it makes it difficult to be in competition with others.. seems that many does not think that the ore they mine is probably worth more... if they had sold it. Like someone selling 32 thoraxes for 6.3 million isk... while my production cost is for a thorax is 6.2 million isk... does not leave me much to compete does it ? and btw.. got perfect building skills and my bpo is researched well .. ME 16 or more.. Anyway .. back to topic... macroers... I seriously doubt CCP will do more to help out there, and I seriously doubt that enough people would cancel their subscription in strike... I know I would do that, infact I moved from paying every 6 months to every month just so I can cancel my subscription in a moments notice. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.09.12 15:53:00 - [19] what is a isk farmer?? - Tides of Silence recruiting miners and overall fun people
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.12 16:21:00 - [20] I am not even 1% effected by macro miners and farmers, therefore i say "**** you" -------------------------- AHH the Stupid forum DELETED(!) all my mod chat in my sig when i added this image :(
Laythun Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.12 16:43:00 - [21] Dude..No. Sig Removed. Some contents are not appropriate for Eve. -ReverendM ([email protected]) Remember to include a copy of your image.See You In Space Cowboy[/url]
Aceoil Anti-Macro Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.12 17:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Splagada what is a isk farmer?? An ISK farmer is a person who runs 8 computers with 8 different EvE accounts, mining low end ore all day. After mining they refine the ore into minerals, they sell the minerals for ISK. They turn around and sell the ISK for real life cash, and make themselves a tidy profit. * In turn I come into the belts where these guys are mining, and steal the ore, they get fustrated and leave the system after about an hour of my stealing. They then travel a few jumps and have to get setup again for mining. The the time they take to get packed up, move, and unpack, it costs them time, and time is money. OR an ISK farmer can be a person who runs the 4/10, 5/10, 6/10, 7/10 or whatever deadspace complex for the loot. They sell the loot for ISK, and then again sell the ISK for real life cash. We call these ISK farmers macro miners. I use macro miner as a blanket term to cover all the bases.
Khemul Zula Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.09.12 17:23:00 - [23] I'm going on strike until CCP bans mission runners! But seriously...what do you propose CCP bans ISK farmers and complex farmers for? Oh no they play a lot and do that same action over and over! Ban them! The "macro miner" problem isn't nearly as big as people make it out to be. It's just that people are told it is so they see an empty belt or complex and all the sudden think 'It must be a macro miner.' Oh and if you think a strike will help you. Think of how many accounts an ISK farmer pays for and how many you have and then think about whether CCP would rather lose you or them. "Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten."
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.12 18:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 12/09/2006 14:18:00 Originally by: Caleb Paine The solution is to be happy about it when you find some, grab your hauler and get rich! \o/ If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Name someone who has. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Benjen Karstark	Posted - 2006.09.12 20:19:00 - [25] So how does one tell a "Marco Miner" from a regular miner? As I would love to do a little reporting & looting. Or just post a link to somewhere were i can find this info.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.09.12 20:30:00 - [26] Catch 22 gets created by these farmers. See as the games grows and the economy gets inflated the players need mroe money to buy things, and thus the demand goes up and the farmers mutliply, this translates to increased subscribers which equals mroe money for the game company. So on top of the absurdity of the lame excuse they give " well we can;t be 100% certaina dn we won;t ban unless 100% certain..." it just takes money out of thier pocket to reduce the farmers numbers. Lineage2 has a very similar economy and unfortunately goes through the very SAME pattern that EVE is. Subscriber base is growing, everything is more expensive that it used to be and unfortunetly word gets out in these 3rd world countries and the farmers MULTIPLY. The problems always comes back to the basic flaw of the game that any old automated script can play the game as well as a player. so these people use the lowest denominator of time and the easiest most effectiv emethod to created scripted macros that auto playt eh game 23/7 making mnoney to sell.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.12 20:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Splagada what is a isk farmer?? Someone who breed and raise isk in their barn. Recruitment
Antodias Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.12 20:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Rod Blaine I don't really see the issue with mining ice in 0.7 and lower for normal players tbh. It's not like the npc's there are actually dangerous is it ? On the other hand, it's not going to dent macros much either I think. Putting a small repairer on autorepeat isn't exactly hard. And I'd suspect that's about all it takes really. We'll see. From a perspective of population control it does make sense tho, so all in all I'd still say it's a good move. I can see if the reason was mainly to make ICE mining more profitable, but honestly, to do that you need to eradicate the MM's & farmers FIRST! This is a laughable solution IMO. CCP has shown with this "solution" , that they are incapable, or unwilling to put in the effort to remove farmers & MM's from the game... OK, I'm getting mildly offended by you now, Bhaal. That's just ridiculous. In june, close to 1000 paying accounts were banned. You do the math on how much that costs us financially. Then go bark up some other tree. And tools, well, do you think we have GMs flying around space looking for them or do you think we have tools to detect them? This is a trick question, do you want me to give you a hint? Whining about macrominers gets you spanked by Oveur.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.12 20:47:00 - [29] I bet you had that copied and pasted into your notebook just for an occasion like this Recruitment
Lucio Gallente Incorporated Holdings	Posted - 2006.09.12 20:49:00 - [30] /signed Ban the idiots. CCP should just transfer all Chinese IP address accounts to the China cluster. Yes it looks like racial prejudice but so far I haven't encountered a macrominer who hasn't replied in Chinese text when I've repeatedly rammed their barges out of alignment :) ************************************************ Yes, I know I have a negative sec. status but I'm not a pirate damnit!
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.12 21:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 12/09/2006 14:18:00 Originally by: Caleb Paine The solution is to be happy about it when you find some, grab your hauler and get rich! \o/ If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Name someone who has. I¦ve been told that by a CCP employee and I¦m just passing on the info. Ship lovers click here
Tutaku Pagans On Safari	Posted - 2006.09.12 21:35:00 - [32] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 12/09/2006 14:18:00 Originally by: Caleb Paine The solution is to be happy about it when you find some, grab your hauler and get rich! \o/ If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Name someone who has. I¦ve been told that by a CCP employee and I¦m just passing on the info. That's fine, but hardly something that you can enforce. If CCP cannot/will not identify the people who are breaking their rules then we are hardly guilty for interacting with our fellow players in ways that are entirely, inarguably, within the bounds of normal play. It's my job to steal stuff. It's not my job to identify automated players. The statement you're referring to is most likely a blanket kind of thing designed to cover everyone involved in the farming operation, not limiting themselves to the definition of "the guy with the mining laser".
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.12 21:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Lucio /signed Ban the idiots. CCP should just transfer all Chinese IP address accounts to the China cluster. Yes it looks like racial prejudice but so far I haven't encountered a macrominer who hasn't replied in Chinese text when I've repeatedly rammed their barges out of alignment :) This is the prime factor CCP refuse to do IP seperation (ie no china IPs on TQ and no global IPs ex china on the chinesse server) this is causing problems
Pea Smuggler	Posted - 2006.09.12 21:45:00 - [34] I like the whole, mine, produce and sell part of EVE, I enjoy it just as much as the PVP side and find it a very nice relaxing way to spend time in the game. So a little story about my EVE since Saturday for me. This weekend I thought IÆd mine in empire and catch the football on TV. I check out the belts in my home system and I find loads of players in NPC corps, all created around the same time mining. I scan a few roids and itÆs not worth the hassle of activating the lasers they are so small. So I call it quits before I even start. Check back Sunday, the same nothing left before I get out of bed. Well this brings me to Monday and IÆm at work. I log in, check the belts and cool, loads of ore, 20 odd kernite in each belt, pyro respawned. Think to myself, nice bit of mining tonight while I watch that film IÆve been meaning to watch. Leave work, get home, eat, put the kid to bed, log on about 8.30GMT and local has loads of players in NPC corps, the same ones, in the belts, mining away. How many roids, 0 kernite, 0 pyro, few scordite and a little more veld which they are now working on. Guess IÆm not mining again tonight. Now itÆs Tuesday and IÆm back at work, log in after DT, no one in local, great, check the belts, well the roids have decided to leave too, well their was 6 veld ones in the first belt but nothing more than 15 veld riods left in anyone of 9 belts in the system. Well whatÆs the problem with this, for me itÆs simply, itÆs not that what I wanted to do in EVE I couldnÆt, thatÆs EVE (I do miss the day when I could chose a belt, even a low sec one and mine away to fill what ever mineral shortages I needed filling, pirates back then ransomed you and not ganked on site so low sec mining could be a laugh) ItÆs not that these players were in NPC corps. ItÆs not that these players might have been macro miner or not, I donÆt know if they are (looks like it thou ) ItÆs the god dam fact I can do nothing about it other than steal their ore. If this was players in a player run corp, we could try to come to some agreement on the resources of the area, if we didnÆt, I might decide that our corp is strong enough to take them on and War dec to push them out of the area. There are options to solve this but due to them sitting in NPC corps for 7 months plus I canÆt do naff all. I canÆt have a sustained campaign against them other than steal the ore they have which doesnÆt do much really. ItÆs really annoying. I donÆt care if they are in the game tbh as long as I can do something about it. I donÆt know how you can solve this problem but something needs to be done about the immunity that NPC corps gives to people. The only idea I can come up with is a system that allow corps to war dec individuals in NPC corps over 3 months old. Make it so itÆs only a 48hours dec on people but at least this way I can make it hard for that person or as the case is, group of persons by dec them. Make it so at corp canÆt war dec individuals in other player corp but players that sit in NPC corps, for what every reason they chose to stay in their for, and there is a host of good reason are not be immune to the hard ships of EVE and the way it allows you to resolve differences. Lets us do something about it. Yes this is my ALT on one of my accounts
Wildbillace Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.09.12 22:04:00 - [35] Pea Smuggler - move to a new system. there are TONS of systems with tons of kernite untouched by macro miners, and its usually because they locals hunt them down with a vengeance. have fun.
Mjala	Posted - 2006.09.12 22:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Catch 22 gets created by these farmers. See as the games grows and the economy gets inflated the players need mroe money to buy things, and thus the demand goes up and the farmers mutliply, this translates to increased subscribers which equals mroe money for the game company. So on top of the absurdity of the lame excuse they give " well we can;t be 100% certaina dn we won;t ban unless 100% certain..." it just takes money out of thier pocket to reduce the farmers numbers. Lineage2 has a very similar economy and unfortunately goes through the very SAME pattern that EVE is. Subscriber base is growing, everything is more expensive that it used to be and unfortunetly word gets out in these 3rd world countries and the farmers MULTIPLY. The problems always comes back to the basic flaw of the game that any old automated script can play the game as well as a player. so these people use the lowest denominator of time and the easiest most effectiv emethod to created scripted macros that auto playt eh game 23/7 making mnoney to sell. you have no clue about the market.
Eralus	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:15:00 - [37] What stops people from just blowing macro miners into little tiny bits? At least outside of empire. If you're in Empire and finding that the belts are all tapped out, well, leave empire. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.09.12 23:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Splagada what is a isk farmer?? Someone who breed and raise isk in their barn. AH OK - Tides of Silence recruiting miners and overall fun people
Ogdru Jahad Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.13 01:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 12/09/2006 14:18:00 Originally by: Caleb Paine The solution is to be happy about it when you find some, grab your hauler and get rich! \o/ If you get rich from stealing from a macro miner, you get banned aswell. Btw, signed. I wouldnt mind if the client had a small scanner to check if any macro proggys run in the backround to kill them. Not really... I petitioned a gm about it and was told they can defend thier cans. so stealing it is no problem, they can defend thier ore. Great Quotes... INNOMINATE NIGHTMARE > Your mother is an Exotic Dancer and your Sister works in a Quafe Factory.....
eBail Jerbal	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:46:00 - [40] Quote: I haven't encountered a macrominer who hasn't replied in Chinese text when I've repeatedly rammed their barges out of alignment :) keep the text and get it translated if he is swearing petion him and get him banned for it
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:48:00 - [41] talk to em in chinesse about democracy and see hw quickly they log off
Braaage eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:57:00 - [42] I didn't read the whole thread just the OP, what makes me laugh is you think CCP aren't doing anything about them.... It's not just a case of banning the account or IP, these guys just sign right back up spoofing, IPs and carry on. What has to be done is the source of the farmers needs to be shut down, this takes extensive work behind the scenes and an accumulation of accounts marked for bannage then pow, all at once they go. That's my take on it anyway! ___________________________________________ http://www.eve-tutor.com Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online
DeathHauler	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Lucio /signed Ban the idiots. CCP should just transfer all Chinese IP address accounts to the China cluster. Yes it looks like racial prejudice but so far I haven't encountered a macrominer who hasn't replied in Chinese text when I've repeatedly rammed their barges out of alignment :) tbh i expected this as soon as i first heard that there was going to be a chinese cluster and for the count of daily macro activity to triple. dont mean this in a racist way but almost every chinese person ive met in RL and online always used whatever they could to win...... if any of you know any in RL ask them about "king of fighters" and if they know any infinates / game bugs they use i bet 9/10 times you'll get a yea as a response
Chiba Larry	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:00:00 - [44]
Chiba Larry	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:01:00 - [45] Can I have your stuff? Oh and uh... I agree about kicking isk sellers and macros. k thx.
Mikey Monkfish	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:20:00 - [46] Edited by: Mikey Monkfish on 13/09/2006 13:20:49 I've just had a thought.... What you need to do is have a decent ammount of ore in your cargo. Something that will attract the miners, Say, 10k Veld, then jet it in a belt that regularly has Macro Miners. They will open your can as it wont be secure and see a decent quantity of Ore, which they will pinch. What they don't know is you will be sat near a gate just outside the system waiting for the aggression counter to start ticking.... ....Here starts your 15 mins of fun Repeat as necessary.
Saibotek	Posted - 2006.09.13 14:01:00 - [47] Pea Smuggler.... Your Story is just like mine. log in in the morn before DT Plenty of kern and other roids to pop later that night when i get back... only to find 3 covetors in noob corp all created the same day in 1/7 belts sucking the last of my plans down their ore tubes. and yup here comes their Iteron5 to completely haul away the last of my hopes for the evening. so i start trying to chat in local.. no response try to convo them in private... no response. start ramming them again no response. and they even have western style naming... no repetitive naming. so i use my second account to side up to there cans and attempt a steal.. (but dont).. now they change there deliver method to a delivery to a SS warp out and drop come in and start sucking more of my plans.... so i used my "Alt" to report them and actually got a GM response in about 15 minutes that it will be investigated...i file 2 times 1 was under Exploit and i forget what the other was... got 1 response in 15 minutes and 1 in 3 days... Havent seen them back in my area but that doesnt mean they just havent moved on. I wish the GM's would post the Bans in a Hall of Shame so those of us that do report can actually see something being done....also i have noticed they stay .6 and above dont think they can tank the rats in .5 so i still have those belts...
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.13 14:09:00 - [48] Look ma, I'm in a macro/farmer thread! Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.09.13 15:32:00 - [49] "you have no clue about the market." Huh? you have no clue what your talking about it seems. I know the market, Further more I understand the basic dynamics of player economies in games like EVE, and how easy it is for professional sellers to impact it. There is always a certain set of items that become grossly over priced because they are essentially the best items in the game, Most every one wants them, but in games like eve and lineage2 the amount of time an average player must put in to make over 300 mill to buy and outfit a hac is just too much for an average player, they end up simply saying **** on it and buying the isk, or adena instead. Alot of times the sellers will control the supply so you get this circle... you buy the items in game from them with the ingame money you bought from them with real life money so they just keep getting the money back to resell adnaseum over and over. Make no mistake I am sure some of the people with HAC bpo are also selling ISK, mixed in with macro miners. Anyone who know anything about EVE knows the differrence between t1 and t2 is night and day, looking at the prices and it reflects just that. So i am not sure WTF you mean when you say I have no idea about the market.... Cap1 rechargers 20,000 , cap2 recharger.....20 MILLION you will get the same kinda stupid inflation for most ever "important" mod and ship type in eve, it was very VERY bad design to put such strict limits on t2bpo it created a flase monopoly for the economy, instead the bpo should have permenant acess for ANYONE in the player base but instead have all limited runs, so you actively would need to renew/replace your blueprints for all the stuff indemand. Keeps prices at a reasonable level, prevents monopoly's and forces EVERYONE to have to actively play to produce, spreads wealth around the player base rather than not hit one bpo and retire.... Trust me people buy from ebay not becuase it is very simply and enjoyable to earn the money to buy ships and outfit them....they do it because they can't stand the idea of farming ISK for 8 hours just to buy a cap2 recharger, or 2 months for a hac....

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