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Gonada
Gallente
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:19:00 -
[1]
so, think many can agree that macro miners are a problem.
most of it stems from being unable to do anything about it due to them being in noobcorps.
so why cant you have a 30 day grace period upon starting a subscription, then get auto-ejected from the noob corp, into a wardeccable sector corp: ex: gallent unaligned, caldari unaligned, ect ect.
or, have it so you have to gain sufficient faction with the unwardeccable corps, just like clones (8.0) in order to join them?
either way the problem with macro miners is getting rediculus.
discuss.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:26:00 -
[2]
first part, signed. Second part, no. Don't even make n00b corp status an option. Lone Wolfs will have to pay the price.
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I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
lofty29
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:28:00 -
[3]
Why not make the skills that cannot be trained on a trial account, untrainable while you are in an NPC corp? Stops people being sat in them, and newbies generally leave before they have a cruiser.
---------------------------
 Originally by: inSpirAcy
Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you. 
I pwnz0r your sig, muahaha - Tirg
Noes i got beat by a girl >.< - Xorus |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: lofty29
Why not make the skills that cannot be trained on a trial account, untrainable while you are in an NPC corp? Stops people being sat in them, and newbies generally leave before they have a cruiser.
YES LOFTY FTFW!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~
I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:35:00 -
[5]
"so, think many can agree that macro miners are a problem."
An absolutely tiny one in Eve, which is NOT worth placing silly restrictions on new players for, since that simply canabalises the future of Eve.
However, for reasons unrelated to this I agree with you - when faction war comes in, this should be exactly what happens. Not wardeccable, but killable by the faction enemies.
lofty29, skills which people quite reasonably expect to be using in their FIRST WEEK, it's quite unreasonable to expect players to leave the newbcorp to train. This is known as "eating your children"...
//Maya |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
lofty29, skills which people quite reasonably expect to be using in their FIRST WEEK, it's quite unreasonable to expect players to leave the newbcorp to train. This is known as "eating your children"...
No industrials, no mining barges... That's it.
Whispers: "Me thinks Maya has 'people working' for her"
~~~~~~~~~
I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
lofty29
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Originally by: lofty29
Why not make the skills that cannot be trained on a trial account, untrainable while you are in an NPC corp? Stops people being sat in them, and newbies generally leave before they have a cruiser.
YES LOFTY FTFW!!!!!
First time anyones said that in a while 
---------------------------
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Just like a tumour, the Brutix grows on you.
I pwnz0r your sig, muahaha - Tirg
Noes i got beat by a girl >.< - Xorus |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.13 22:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Originally by: Maya Rkell
lofty29, skills which people quite reasonably expect to be using in their FIRST WEEK, it's quite unreasonable to expect players to leave the newbcorp to train. This is known as "eating your children"...
No industrials, no mining barges... That's it.
Whispers: "Me thinks Maya has 'people working' for her"
Want to take it to a higher authority? PLEASE do. And let me know how hard you get laughed at.
Industrials ARE something a player would reasonably expect to use within the week.
//Maya |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Originally by: Maya Rkell
lofty29, skills which people quite reasonably expect to be using in their FIRST WEEK, it's quite unreasonable to expect players to leave the newbcorp to train. This is known as "eating your children"...
No industrials, no mining barges... That's it.
Whispers: "Me thinks Maya has 'people working' for her"
Want to take it to a higher authority? PLEASE do. And let me know how hard you get laughed at.
Industrials ARE something a player would reasonably expect to use within the week.
New concept for Maya: Joke.
Don't shoot it all down with petty crap. Of course a player with a week should be able to fly an industrial, but how about other checks and balances?
Such as...
NPC Corporation members will be limited to:
T1 ships only
No mining barges
No ship bigger than Battlecruiser (To eliminate Apoc mining)
etc.
It wouldn't be foolproof, but it would deter. They would definately find a way around it. Might even get large alliances to 'sponsor' their macro operations. *cough* Maya. - Its a joke don't kill me.
~~~~~~~~~
I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:20:00 -
[10]
New concept for LUGAL MOP'N'GLO: THings you can get instantly perma-banned over arn't funny.
None of those are checks and balances, so you make the macro'ers spend the peny-cahs of 1.5 mil for each cgaracter to make a corp. Wow! All you do is punish perfectly legimate players. ALL.
"It wouldn't be foolproof, but it would deter."
Yes, it WOULD deter legitimate players from keeping on playing. As I said, the macrominers would be in 1-man corps.
And no, again, it's not funny. DON'T do it again. You're making a serious accusation.
//Maya |
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Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:22:00 -
[11]
If you really think that macro-miners are a big problem then you obviously never have played lineage2. That game seriously has problems with bots and sweatshops. Farmers in L2 are more or less in complete control of all end-game raid bosses. Thats basicly like having all complexes and officer spawns in eve under their control. They recently opened up a new server and thats how it looks on of the starting spots there.
I've seen macro-miners and i've also seen bots that run missions in eve, it's annoying to look at but how much of a bother are they if they keep in 0.5+? Whom are they competing with there? Other 'carebears'? Whatever your reasons are to wardec single persons, they are hardly justifiable with macro-miners.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Gonada
Gallente
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:28:00 -
[12]
If you really think that macro-miners are a big problem then you obviously never have played lineage2. That game seriously has problems with bots and sweatshops. Farmers in L2 are more or less in complete control of all end-game raid bosses.
-------------------------------------------
i know, ive played lineage, and yes macro miners ARE a problem, flooding the market with billions of isk, that doesnt sound like a problem to you?
watching them move from system to system systematicly mining everything, leaving nothing?
the trick is to get CCP to get off their arse and do soemthing bout it.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Erotic Irony
Sturm und Drang
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:34:00 -
[13]
I've noticed everything you post is aggressively virulent so I thought we'd revisit some of the golden advice you enrich the community with. Do you like this advice?
Originally by: Gonada
Edited by: Gonada on 09/09/2006 23:06:44
seriously, I have been reading the boards forever( yrs) always see posts about lag, and yet me, and those i play with hardly ever experience it.
so wth is your problem?
i mean ya, we had to leave Jita area long ago, cause with 500 ppl in local it was a tad laggy, but nothing really terrible but thats USING YOUR HEAD, NOT STAYING THERE AND CRYING LIKE A SICK MULE.
you know, that the computer, the connection, and the optimization of both play a HUGE part of the lag problems, butg this simple logic falls on deaf ears all the time.
and no i dont have an uber system( 2.8 athalon, 2 gig ram GF 6800 vid card)
So, on behalf of all those that are tired of your whiney posts:
LEAVE ALLREADY
Play nice.
Avon: For the love of all the is holy, do as the man says CCP. |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gonada
i know, ive played lineage, and yes macro miners ARE a problem, flooding the market with billions of isk, that doesnt sound like a problem to you?
Oh yeah, because mining adds ISK to the game right? If anything they LOWER the cost for items, because they add minerals to the game.
Originally by: Gonada
watching them move from system to system systematicly mining everything, leaving nothing?
For 'leaving nothing' i've seen plenty belts with ore. And if at all this problem would arise in 0.5+ which isn't exactly known to have the best ore.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:41:00 -
[15]
Esaka, they are a problem in L2. Yes. Which also has problems with IGE and Yantis.
The ebay market for Eve is unviable for the professional farmers, and IGE and Yantis don't touch Eve with a stick. The value of the Ebay market for Eve is a fraction of the value of that for games far smaller.
"I've seen macro-miners and i've also seen bots that run missions in eve, it's "
Proof plz.
Gonada, CCP *have* done something. Something which SMASHED the value of the Eve ebay market by over fifteen times, while causing NO in-game inflation. This is a unique and powerful blow against the macrominers. What is that blow? Allowing ETC sales for ISK.
Your witch hunt and hatred for newer players is unjustified.
//Maya |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
"I've seen macro-miners and i've also seen bots that run missions in eve, it's "
Proof plz.
A proof for what? The mission running bots? I've counted 22 'player' from SWA, all same bloodline, all same naming scheme, all same age, all trial accounts, all in a caracal with the same setup, all logging in at the same time, all running missions for expert distribution in a system quite far away from caldari space and never picking up any cans.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Gretchen Dawntreader
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:54:00 -
[17]
This again?
People have over and over suggested booting people out of noobcorps after X whatevers...I see it as an elephant gun solution that is new player unfriendly. All you will do by this is treat all new players as if they are presumed to be breaking the rules.
EVE thrives by influx of new players. They should be encouraged and not pushed into pvp/wardec/whatever territory until they choose to do so.
Also people like to stay in noobcorps to help the noobs. I know quite a few who have done just that, and they do more service to EVE than all the people coming up with whacky scheme #10437556 to get at those pesky macroers.
There's plenty of people for you to shoot, leave noob corps alone.
I left my starter noob corp, tried a player corp, it didn't work out, so now I am in Brutor. Guess what. You can't wardec me. Tough. I'm not a macro user and people who are not macrominers should be able to choose the course and timing of their gameplay evolution without interference.
They made it not feasible to farm belts in a trial account. That didn't seem to slow them down. Now you propose to do the same to new players in noob corps, what makes you think that's going to do anything. Declare them, they'll just disband and form a new corp. In the meantime thousands of newbies get their game constricted.
Why does every problem in EVE have to be solved by increasing the number of people someone gets to shoot at....
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.14 00:35:00 -
[18]
Fine Esaka, and you petitioned them? Because if you did...and they're still arround... guess what? You were wrong. CCP is the arbitrator of this, NOT you.
Gretchen's right.
//Maya |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 00:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Fine Esaka, and you petitioned them? Because if you did...and they're still arround... guess what? You were wrong. CCP is the arbitrator of this, NOT you.
Do you have some reading issues? They are on a trial account and after exactly 14 days they stopped 'working' and were never seen again. Of course the next generation came in a bit later. It doesn't take any 'arbitrator' to state the obvious, but hey come up with some creative explanation what those guys did. I bet they are hardcore eve fans that only like to grind lvl2 missions for 23/7 and nothing else.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Gonada
Gallente
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.09.14 00:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Gonada on 14/09/2006 00:54:45
Fine Esaka, and you petitioned them? Because if you did...and they're still arround... guess what? You were wrong. CCP is the arbitrator of this, NOT you.
-----------------
actually Maya, CCP is famous fo sitting on their ass and doing nothing
last week i stole over 9 million veld from macro miners over a 10 hr period, petitioning the gms 4 times, and each time they gave me their auto- respoonce and nothing happened.
i have 14 names on my macro miner list in the region i keep my miner and regularily steal ore from them now, though i notice some have left the area lately.
CCP needs to be more pro-active
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.14 00:51:00 -
[21]
You're making an assumption which you are not entitled to make. You can petition them. That's as far as you can go.
//Maya |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 00:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
You're making an assumption which you are not entitled to make. You can petition them. That's as far as you can go.
Yeah right, i must have missed the 'disable your brain' part of CCPs EULA.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.14 00:56:00 -
[23]
Gonada, from people you SUSPECTED of being macro miners. And you petitioned the same group 4 times? I'd like to see you banned for abuse of the system, bluntly.
If you think CCP need to be more pro-active, that's ENTIRELY different to the anti-newbie, ineffective poisen pills being pushed in this thread, AND you'll still not be the arbitrator of who is and isn't a macrominer.
Esaka, you are not CCP. You're harrassing players, pure and simple. Not the smartest thing to admit.
//Maya |
Erotic Irony
Sturm und Drang
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 00:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gonada
petitioning the gms 4 times, and each time they gave me their BS respoonce and nothing happened.
...
CCP needs to be more pro-active
I cried, I laughed, I left upset that you didn't read a word of what Maya posted.
Your perceptions of those who are macroers and the reality are two things you seem to have purposefully confused.
Postscript: Your quad-damage petition reminded me of how important this is.
Avon: For the love of all the is holy, do as the man says CCP. |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 01:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Esaka, you are not CCP. You're harrassing players, pure and simple. Not the smartest thing to admit.
LOL! I beg you to report me for 'harassment'. Haha! Obviously in terms of smart posting you should be the first to take some lessons. I can neither recall to have said any names nor that i have taken any action ingame - but hey that group of anonymous trial accounts surely now feels threatend by me. But guess what? I petitioned them and suddenly from one day to the next they all stopped working. Duh!
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Corrd
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Posted - 2006.09.14 01:10:00 -
[26]
Maybe you could convince CCP to implement a player v player war dec system. Apply the same rules and fees as though it's a corp v corp war dec. It's just that corps arne't involved. It could be written into the story as Kanly or feuds. That would seriously disrupt a farmers and their gang members operation.
Mind you, I haven't considered how such a game mechanic might be exploited.
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Gonada
Gallente
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.09.14 01:17:00 -
[27]
maya: take daoc: you see someone exploiting the system, you petition, a GM apprers, verifys the petition, poof thee exploited is disconnected, and the warining, suspension ban or whatever is given.
eq: explioters suspended upon verification of using exploits
EVE: nothing is done
and youd like to see me suspended for petitioning them ? :)
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.14 01:49:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/09/2006 01:49:10
Esaka, then it worked and they were macro'ers. Why precisely are you getting wound up?
Gonada,
Abuse of the petitioning system, petitioning the same group 4 times? HECK YES! That does nothing but waste GM time.
They cannot verify macro use in the same way you can verify a crude memory hack? Wow, that's...er...normal (Those crude memory and dupe hacks don't WORK on Eve, strangely enough...).
Again, you need to be addressing this to CCP, not the playerbase. To me, you're just another witch hunter else trying to assume the powers CCP rightly reserves for themselves. And you abuse petitions as well.
//Maya |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 02:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/09/2006 01:49:10
Esaka, then it worked and they were macro'ers. Why precisely are you getting wound up?
Wound up?! Oh god... is there something like a hidden postcounter around here? I get the feeling you're just posting *something* that fits to your agenda and do not even try to comprehend what others are writing. Let me quote myself for you:
Quote:
I've seen macro-miners and i've also seen bots that run missions in eve, it's annoying to look at but how much of a bother are they if they keep in 0.5+?
I guess i'm missing the part were i get 'wound up'. All I can say is 'wow'... you should be the last person talking about 'smart' posts. I thought it was obvious, but they didn't got banned their trial account time ran out - like i also stated earlier. 
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Khemul Zula
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.14 02:56:00 -
[30]
I'd really like to see one person prove that a person is a macro miner without using the phrase "I know they are." I mean real proof, not this they don't like to talk or they have a stupid random name. Prove they are actually breaking a rule also, not this "I don't like what they do so they should be banned" stuff.
Also I'd like to see someone prove CCP is doing nothing without saying "I know X is a macro miner and CCP didn't ban them".
Either way the idea of eliminating noob corps will do nothing. All you'll get is 100s of small corps that are not worth declaring war on.
"Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten." |
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Pizi
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.14 07:07:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Pizi on 14/09/2006 07:10:00
Originally by: Gonada
maya: take daoc: you see someone exploiting the system, you petition, a GM apprers, verifys the petition, poof thee exploited is disconnected, and the warining, suspension ban or whatever is given.
eq: explioters suspended upon verification of using exploits
EVE: nothing is done
and youd like to see me suspended for petitioning them ? :)
God you mentioned DAOC
worst dev team ever (or support)
radar untouched for years
client lagging and lagcasting still untouched
LOS xploits untoched
dont think they EVER banned a single farmer
and so on
CCP is realy a fresh breeze for me after years of DAOC
the 1 reembuse petition i did in the was done in an week
the 1 xploit i got a personal answer in 10 min and it was sortet out
they have a huge que because of people like you peditioning every fart
_______________________________________________
EVEpedia [Deutsch/German]
Say no to BMs
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.09.14 07:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Yes, it WOULD deter legitimate players from keeping on playing. As I said, the macrominers would be in 1-man corps.
First of all, I'm sick of your posts with "'s learn how to use Quotes. Secondly YES! One man corps I can wardecc thats fine!
~~~~~~~~~
I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
Big Al
Free Manure Ask Me How
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Posted - 2006.09.14 11:23:00 -
[33]
Just make automatic kill rights on anyone with a name that matches this format: dsflskfwofkow or blahblah1 blahblah2 blahblah3 blahblah4 who resides in an npc corp.
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Gonada
Gallente
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2006.09.14 12:26:00 -
[34]
God you mentioned DAOC
worst dev team ever (or support)
radar untouched for years
client lagging and lagcasting still untouched
LOS xploits untoched
--------------------------
ok-ok maybe brining camelot up was a baaaad idea, totally had forgotten 90% of the crap that happened there for some reason.
is it true that trial accounts dont need a CC?
and if so, wtf, every other game needs a cc so CCP should get with it, that there could totally wipe that crap out.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.14 13:08:00 -
[35]
Esaka... assumptions, assumptions, tables and chairs...
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO, tough. The poor "visual" editor and firefox disagree with each other and I ain't using IE. And what, 1 man corps what they shift from when you wardec. Wow... that'll do a lot. (Sure, dodging warcecs is banable. So's macro mining...)
Gonada, perfectly usual :) We all idealise games, and only a few really still work when you go back to them. For me, Total Annihilation, Freespace 2 and Planescape: Torment...
"and if so, wtf, every other game needs a cc"
Untrue, untrue. There are plenty of games which don't. Heck, Runescape is bigger than WoW in players and allows entirely free accounts. Further, ETC's can be used, other payment methods etc. - this is all for getting more players, as opposed to the tiny issue of the few diehard macrominers, sure ain't commercial these days. Dosn't make economic SENSE compared to other games.
//Maya |
Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.14 13:26:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Esaka... assumptions, assumptions, tables and chairs...
Yeah assumptions, talking about yourself again huh? You assume that i have no idea what i'm talking about, you assume that I have harassed somebody, you assume that I have any serious issues about the macrominers problem. I have brought up arguments to each of these points and the only thing you're able to come up with is 'tables and chairs'. Your line of argument is absolutely ridiculous, you do not only completely fail to keep track of what i wrote, you're also throwing around accusation without any reason what-so-ever. In the future do me a favor and keep your random trolling for yourself.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com |
Telaura Xi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.14 13:45:00 -
[37]
Greetings,
Once again we see this ever present drive to force people out of NPC corporations. As done so many times before it is wrapped in the shroud of a zealot's errand to rid the EVE universe of the macrominer scourge. Even if one were to concede the fact that there was a macrominer problem how can anyone stomach the collateral damage you would incur with the suggestions provided by the original poster?
Lets look at some of the likely consequences of your suggestion shall we. After a 30 day grace period new players, alternate characters, and suspected farmers all get forcibly pushed into NPC entities that can have empire sanctioned wars declared on them. The most obvious result is suddenly you would have the largest virtual bloodbath ever seen in a MMO in history. CCP would be able to proudly post that in one game day their servers saw the death of millions of player characters in minutes not days. These NPC corporations would have active wars declared against them for every second of every day from the moment they where implemented. Suddenly griefers wouldn't need to bother wrapping their intentions in the cloak of righteousness fighting the insidious onslaught of the macrominer on the economy. They would drop the pretense and happily rape, murder, and pillage this subset of the population milking the opportunity for everything it is worth. The carnage would continue until people adapted or simply stopped playing. After looking at this I wonder why waist the time coding any of this? Just use the delete key and remove CONCORD from safe space. Hell, just turn everywhere into 0.0 and sit back and watch. That way no macrominer is safe and everyone can be attacked everywhere all the time. You know, even the sadistic subset of the population often accused of eating babies called pirates don't want something like that to happen.
So many of the suggestions made involving restrictions to a subset of the player base conveniently ignore that we are playing and paying customers just like you. Because we prefer to play the game in a way that is different should not mean we are free to be discriminated upon. Calling those of us in NPC corporations acceptable losses in your crusade to cut something you perceive to be a cancer on the game smacks of the arrogance often found in racism and hate crimes. Who are you to point at a player and brand them a macrominer or expendable in the face of your cause? What extra power did CCP bestow upon your characters to look upon the actions of others and declare ôthey are breaking this gameö? How are you 100% sure the players you accuse of being macrominers are the real deal?
Until a player can prove with 100% assuredness that another character is a macrominer without resorting to saying ôI just know they areö CCP should ignore these suggestions and proceed as they have been.
/kowtow
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St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.14 13:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: lofty29
Why not make the skills that cannot be trained on a trial account, untrainable while you are in an NPC corp? Stops people being sat in them, and newbies generally leave before they have a cruiser.
Problem is that once again you are also nerfing the majoraty of the new players who come in doing this. Most people who are new to this game are not macro's or sweatchop people. Bear in mind this is not a PvP ONLY game you know, and its true i know people like you get kicks out of weaiting at 0.4 gates for any newbs to gank but in the end making newbie-ish corps war decable would just be to unfare on those who want to play the lone wolfey.
I know that you are going to flame me for this and say stuff like go back to wow, can i have your stuff and that eve is a PvP only game then fine say all this. bear in mind tho this is my opinion.
P.S. have you had that 1v1 with bob yet or arte you still running from him 
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.09.14 14:20:00 -
[39]
Christ, not this topic again. It has reappeared for as long I can remember avery time the last post on the subject had left the front page.
I am not even going into the debate on how this will effect age HUGE ammount of players who has done absolutely nothing wrong and really do no like to be forced into a certain play style by narrow minded morons.
Let us instead asume that the actions you are suggesting is being putted into place and consider what moves the farmers (macroes and all included) will react. They will just put each and every of their toons into different corps. So we have gfhtycorp1, hjtycorp1 and so on. If you war dec a corp the lone member just moves on to a new, gfhtycorp2.
And no, it is NOT an exploit to leave a corp who has been wardecced. The rule is that you are not allowed to quit and then REJOIN to avoid war.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc
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Posted - 2006.09.14 15:57:00 -
[40]
Well I happen to know that Macroers and isk farmers are a problem, they forced me out of a profession I did like but moving around in miningbarges is not something I like spending my time on... I even bought several miningbarges so I did not have to move around in slow barges all the time.
Anyway .. yeah I know a few macrominers where their hauler is their controller.. or atleast now they are.
and how do I know ? well first when I heard of them was from a corpmate who got really annoyed by them.
So we sat up a oretheft operation from these... I alone stole 110 000 Kernite from them on a single night.
I sat outside their miners in a hauler, nobody said anything, I raced their hauler popping containers just before he could reach them... nobody said anything, I did this for 2 days, once the kernite roids where gone they moved to another system and they had a route I could follow them in.
After 2 weeks where we tracked them by locatoragents one night they suddenly realised that we had been stealing ore from them... how the hell can nobody notice when I steal an entire night of ore from them ?
NO... NO miner would have let this go unnoticed!!!! I know because I used to be a miner myself.
So did I petition these several times, and guess what... they are still in the game... why is that you think ? maybe they now got a controller answering any requests from a GM ? I would belive that is the case, but it does not mean that they sit infront of the computer pushing buttons... I belive that is done by a macroprogram.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
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Saibotek
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Posted - 2006.09.15 12:54:00 -
[41]
Just Curious... why all the defense over a bunch of players whom others feel are breaking the EULA? If it quacks most likley its a duck. I have run into many of these myself and have felt the pain created by them as well. ie..Loss of isk and sales because they dont mind undercutting you. why should you be left in a noob corp for more than 14 days? (it is obviously for trial purposes only). so you cant be wardec'ed why should you be allowed to fly anything bigger than a low level ship in a noob corp. its a noob corp to give you a taste of the game. not to protect you for the rest of your carrer on it. Ive seen "alleged macros" flying Covetors and Iteron 5s petitioned them and havent seen them in a few weeks. I agree that proof should be given to show that they are a macro but its not difficult to see that they are "afk mining" no reponse for hours especially to ore theft. changes made to delivery of their ore when you do attempt to steal, sometimes, is just a form of protecting it. but when they go to a safe spot and deliver until a belt is empty then continue back and forth doing nothing its pretty obvious what going on. CCP obviously doesnt want to do much about the isk sellers on ebay. thats a simple form to fill out for intellectual property Ebay Vero. program would stop that.
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Tizi
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.09.15 15:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Saibotek
why should you be left in a noob corp for more than 14 days? (it is obviously for trial purposes only). so you cant be wardec'ed why should you be allowed to fly anything bigger than a low level ship in a noob corp. its a noob corp to give you a taste of the game. not to protect you for the rest of your carrer on it.
It's not at all obvious to me that NPC corps are for trial purposes only. If they were then this post would not exist. NPC corps exist precisely to protect players who do not enjoy PvP for the rest of their careers. Notice that this protection is not absolute. You can still shoot any player at any time if you are willing to lose your own ship.
Remember it is a sandbox game. Different things are fun for different people.
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Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
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Posted - 2006.09.15 15:30:00 -
[43]
say no to barges for players in NPC corps 
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Eating Chopped Bear:  |
Cmdr Baxter
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.15 15:42:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gonada
so, think many can agree that macro miners are a problem.
most of it stems from being unable to do anything about it due to them being in noobcorps.
so why cant you have a 30 day grace period upon starting a subscription, then get auto-ejected from the noob corp, into a wardeccable sector corp: ex: gallent unaligned, caldari unaligned, ect ect.
or, have it so you have to gain sufficient faction with the unwardeccable corps, just like clones (8.0) in order to join them?
either way the problem with macro miners is getting rediculus.
discuss.
I agree, insofar as the concerns of macro-miners being a "problem." But that's as far as I agree with the OP.
There have now been a number of debates involving the extent to which macro-miners affect the EVE economy: I personally hold to the position that while they may have a slight (emphasis on slight) affect on prices, in general the market will always rebalance. This, therefore, meets the general statement of supply and demand being in action.
Quite frankly, I fail to see why there are so many problems with this. As far as I know, mineral prices have been on the rise as of late, especially in the Citadel and Lonetrek regions, and this is with macro-miners operating 23/7. If anything, I would think that miners would be happy for the rising prices, and that manufacturers would be pleased with a greater supply of minerals being available.
Now, in regards to the rest of the suggestions by the OP.
EVE is a game that involves a certain degree of risk, and it has a steep learning curve: that much I will grant to you. However, forcing a new player to actively pursue a line of training, or worrying them with the knowledge of their being removed from a corporation and exposed to even more risks/hazards, even in the supposedly-more-secure high-security space, is going to be seen as a detriment to the game.
EVE prides itself on open-ended gameplay, as well as the knowledge that pilots are free to, as the game trailer states, "choose their own destiny." Forcing a new player to take an action that they may not necessarily agree with will, in the long run, go against the very spirit upon which this game is based.
Suggestion: CCP should create a stickied thread, just for *****ing about macro-miners. I know that I, and so many others, are by now growing tired of a new thread every week griping about the presence of macro-miners in the game. (Plus it means that the moderators don't have to police the forums for trolls/flamebaits regarding macroers: everything will be in one convenient location.)
Commanding Officer
S.W.V. Aurora
S.W.S. Syrene |
Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.15 18:07:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Gonada
actually Maya, CCP is famous fo sitting on their ass and doing nothing
Actually, the last time people moaned enough, Oveur came out and shot them down by reavealing just how many hundreds of accounts they had banned in the last month. Just because they don't go round having a ticker-tape parade every time they ban someone, doesn't mean they're not doing it.
Originally by: Gonada
maya: take daoc: you see someone exploiting the system, you petition, a GM apprers, verifys the petition, poof thee exploited is disconnected, and the warining, suspension ban or whatever is given.
eq: explioters suspended upon verification of using exploits
EVE: nothing is done
That EQ thing actually sounds highly sucky - you're saying anyone could get you suspended just by saying you might be using an exploit? I wouldn't be surprised if there were more exploits of that than there were actual game exploits.
I'd also like to correct your entry for eve: nothing that you see is done. The GM could be right there next to you, and you'd never see him unless he wanted you to. But if you could see him, then so could the potential macroer, and I'm sure you can figure out why he may not want that.
The real question is, assuming the target of your ire is actually a macro, do you want them to just ban that account? Or do you want them to wait, see who it gives the ore/isk to. Who else gives ore/isk to that char, what is then done with that isk. Then ban the entire chain right from the macroer, through the dealer to the one that bought the isk off ebay. It takes slightly longer, but is far more effective in the long run.
The GM's have access to far more information about the player than you do - so they are in a far better position to judge who is a macroer, and who is just a miner that chooses not to respond to provocation.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2006.09.15 18:09:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cmdr Baxter
Suggestion: CCP should create a stickied thread, just for *****ing about macro-miners. I know that I, and so many others, are by now growing tired of a new thread every week griping about the presence of macro-miners in the game. (Plus it means that the moderators don't have to police the forums for trolls/flamebaits regarding macroers: everything will be in one convenient location.)
I think they tried that at one point, and it eventually had to be locked because moderating out all the racism and other inappropriateness was sucking up too much moderator time.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2006.09.15 18:33:00 -
[47]
i don't know how much of a problem macrominers actually are but in the last week i've had 2 evemails offering me isk for cash both from trial accounts i think.
as far as finding macrominers i would think any account showing activity 161 hours a week or so would have to be considered a macro miner. doesn't seem it should be all that hard to find them and weed them out based on their own greed.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.15 18:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Khemul Zula
I'd really like to see one person prove that a person is a macro miner without using the phrase "I know they are." I mean real proof, not this they don't like to talk or they have a stupid random name. Prove they are actually breaking a rule also, not this "I don't like what they do so they should be banned" stuff.
I sat witha stopwatch for 20 minutes the first time I petitioned a macrominer. I knew their actions down to the second. There was no screwing up, no delay, no early movement. Humans are not that precise.
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus
I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour  - Immy
Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
For 50, you can have my goat:P- Tirg |
Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc
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Posted - 2006.09.16 18:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Gonada
actually Maya, CCP is famous fo sitting on their ass and doing nothing
Actually, the last time people moaned enough, Oveur came out and shot them down by reavealing just how many hundreds of accounts they had banned in the last month. Just because they don't go round having a ticker-tape parade every time they ban someone, doesn't mean they're not doing it.
Actually .. what Oveur did was to say how many accounts they had BANNED, he never said it was macroers he banned.. could be anything really.
Point is I still see minerking01 and minerking02 and minerking03 log on, those are the miners I stole from long time ago who did not react to me stealing ore for millions right infront of their hauler.. something was clearly wrong back then, ccp investigated it (I hope anyway) and nothing happend, these guys still log on every single day!!!
I know because I did put these in my buddylist to see if they log on regulary.. wich they do.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
dantes inferno
Caldari
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.09.16 19:39:00 -
[50]
well tbh i dont give a damn about macro miners, nor do CCP (ive petitioned many of them in time after doing extensive checks..convos, can changing, busting the can, bumping them ships while sitting there watching the same things happen over and over with no change or compensation no matter what is done) but something needs to be done to NPC corps or as they are more rightly known as NOOB corps.
the reasoning for this is two fold, one of which is not realy vital but still is a pain in the recutm, the second is in my opinion damaging the game itself.
1) avoidance of war decs: CCP put these in game for a reason suprisingly enough, and this reason was not to make every one cry...people who remain in a noob corp to avoid war decs are abusing if not expoliting a system developed to protect newer players.
2) the rubbish inaccurate adivce spewed in the channels by people who have no idea of what they are talking about, the poodo these people spew as it was gospel insert a massive fear of low sec and 0.0 into newer players making them belive that venturing there is a waste of time. out of curiosity i have sat in these channels time after time and seen many people spew this garbage.
for those 2 reasons alone people should be move from a noob corp to a totaly different NPC corp after 6 weeks, this different noob corp can either:
a) be war decable
b) have penalties of some form, this balances out risk vs reward why should they have the same rewards as other players without facing the risk of a war dec?
this will alow the lone wolf to retain his game play, but more balanced and in line with the rest of eve, without the harm some people cause noobs with the current system.
Now the typical come back people will have to my comments is either i want to gank noobs, or im a pirate who sits at a gate in 0.4, well im afraid you are wrong on both counts, i have no interest in fights without a challenge, no interest in empire wars and less than no interest in piracy of any form. most of my time is spent in 0.0 doing my own thing. But i do belive in fairnes, and i feel the current system is vastly ufair and needs changing.
also my advice to people posting here is to ignore maya, he/she is a self important fool who refuses to accept any point of view except for his/her own as valid, i have yet to speak to a single person in game who has anything but contempt for him/her.
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RAM is recruiting |
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Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2006.09.16 20:07:00 -
[51]
Check my sig.
It's not a new subject at all, but the GM/CCP have been ignoring it as much as they possibly can.
Bans for exploits involving macros are few and far between and never reported.
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ISK Pharmers & Alt spies: A solution
Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something. |
Scarib
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Posted - 2006.09.16 22:02:00 -
[52]
A comment from the other side of the fence, I used to mine with my old character, while doing said mining, I had autoreject on, I refused all convo's and didnt engage in any conversation with any griefer's.
I was bump'd had ore stolen, can popped and missiles fired at the roids, think the veld had kill rights on them, the more I ignored them the more it irritated them.
My reason was convo's, were always "oh I though you was macroing" but then gang invites came just as quick, funny how many times the "at war" warning was shown, by players just concerned about miners, I NEVER let drones out to attack the can switcher as everyone was just after flagging to fire back, I did dock once and wait and got "made good isk on the barge loot"
I do agree that macro miner's need reporting and keep doing it, so they get their accounts banned, but many use this as an excuse to gank anyone they deem, a macrominer.
The option to "opt out into npc" corps is a choice many take, for many reasons. Look at most players bio's will show many breaks into npc corps, these will be from, booting, war avoidance, change of corp or for rl issues such as downtime, cash, moving home or changing isp's, to remove this option and make them war dec'able is bad, there are enough ways to gank low sp players without bringing this cheap shot up, this smacks of "i need easy kills"
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DropZone 187
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Posted - 2006.09.16 22:23:00 -
[53]
Actually, the real problem is mission runners. Macro'ers don't bother anyone and keep min prices down. In fact, they are just like garbage men, taking out what others deem as junk.
Mission runners on the other hand do nothing but hide in Empire, lag the game with their 'instanced' content and mess with the economy. Kick them out of empire into 0.0 and be finished with it.
This is the same arguement for getting punted out of noob corp after 30 days. Once a mission runner is capable of using level 4 agents, they should only be allowed to run them in 0.0 space.
Go lofty.
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Vicarias T
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.16 22:30:00 -
[54]
I posted a similar topic in the new guy forum. I am kinda new and don't have a real grip on all this yet so go easy on me. After working to get to where I could be an Ice miner ( followed the hype) I found the ice fields full of non-descript names (dfbaeaefb) Obviously farmers, not players. After mining for a few hours and counting up my isk, I thought ;What a waste of time!' I can make more selling Veld in 1.0! Who else is going to mine ice if NOT macros? And I think CCP knows this. Kinda turn the other cheek. Like they said in Lineage 2 'those farmers represent A LOT of income', to CCP in this case.
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DryKill LogiC
Minmatar
The Nest
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Posted - 2006.09.17 00:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Originally by: lofty29
Why not make the skills that cannot be trained on a trial account, untrainable while you are in an NPC corp? Stops people being sat in them, and newbies generally leave before they have a cruiser.
YES LOFTY FTFW!!!!!
First time anyones said that in a while
it will probably be your last too... cause the idea is rediculous.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.09.17 01:09:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 17/09/2006 01:12:29
Countdown until the "solo players are not people" argument...
Oh wait..
...In all seriousness though oveur himself has said that a change forcing people out of npc corps would be too drastic. It will never, ever, ever, happen. So stop asking for it.
Originally by: DryKill LogiC
rediculous.
Ridiculous*
EDIT: Originally by: DropZone 187
Actually, the real problem is mission runners.
And there you have it, this thread has now officially reached the apex of bigoted whining.
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Womble God
Gallente
Compression Space Transport
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Posted - 2006.09.17 11:40:00 -
[57]
Just thought Id add my two cents worth here. Im currently mining in high-sec to get my industrial corp off the ground. Whilst doing this I saw 15 miners in local all with the familiar same name thing going on. Having spent a few days chasing them around one of them finally got myself and a friend into a convo. Seems he had created these 15 accounts and he and his friends were running them 23/7. Now if I remember rightly, account sharing is a breach of the EULA and thus this guy and his accounts would be banned.
If I filed a petition with CCP citing the chat log I saved (and Im fully aware that chatlogs can be falsified), would CCP be able to monitor the account useage and ban him? Afterall, I dont care how big an EVE fan you are, no-one can stay awake for 23 hours a day 7 days a week (he admitted that yes, his characters were logged on everyday of the week, 23 hours a day). Seems to me that account useage monitoring would help eliminate all these "macroers" leaving all the innocent miners alone, thus pleasing everyone.
Flame away if you like
Will swap cAKe for sig |
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