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Rorqual - New mining platform

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Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 9	Posted - 2015.01.04 02:42:09 - [1] - Quote Since a lot of aside threads picking up the new wave of wishes of bigger mining ship including mining titan I'd consider to change Rorqual to that role - null sec mining beast with Capital Strip Miner l added to the game. Vote for it or leave it!
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 201	Posted - 2015.01.04 03:00:22 - [2] - Quote Ah... but will people complain if it out-mines a Hulk? Personally, I would not mind, It would at least mean that the Rorqual could have one more justification to be used in a belt, outside a POS shield. But would it make it more unique in purpose and use? I don't see it being used any more for mining in a belt than it otherwise is used now in a belt. It is a lumbering and expensive ship to be in such a vulnerable position so the reward for that risk should be very great - especially if it has to turn on the industrial core to mine at peak proficiency. Either way I want capital ranges on any capital strip miner...
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 781	Posted - 2015.01.04 03:47:12 - [3] - Quote I'd honestly be okay with the Rorqual being able to deploy its industrial core and gain massive bonuses to strip miners' range and mining amount. If you want to commit a ship that expensive to the belt for a five-minute cycle, you should able to mine more than a Hulk. It's not like you will survive if anyone with friends finds you - unless you have more friends than they do, which makes it a conflict generator. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 9	Posted - 2015.01.04 04:08:47 - [4] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: I'd honestly be okay with the Rorqual being able to deploy its industrial core and gain massive bonuses to strip miners' range and mining amount. If you want to commit a ship that expensive to the belt for a five-minute cycle, you should able to mine more than a Hulk. It's not like you will survive if anyone with friends finds you - unless you have more friends than they do, which makes it a conflict generator. It's a common question isk vs. risk
Daoden The Scope Gallente Federation 94	Posted - 2015.01.04 06:00:41 - [5] - Quote I see WH miners loving this idea since they can still close there system off
Gabriel Elarik Celestiel Rams 2	Posted - 2015.01.04 07:16:30 - [6] - Quote i can see it a fleet of rorquals spidertanking mining and a fleet of drones for protection ehm exumers what are exumers :P
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2167	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:01:44 - [7] - Quote Sure, let the Rorqual mine. But with just 3 regular strips, no yield bonuses, and no more than 5 unbonused mining drones. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
FT Diomedes The Graduates Forged of Fire 782	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:08:53 - [8] - Quote Gabriel Elarik wrote: i can see it a fleet of rorquals spidertanking mining and a fleet of drones for protection ehm exumers what are exumers :P Spider tanking would not be possible in industrial mode. Catching these guys in a null sec belt: a couple of Interdictors or Interceptors keep them pinned long enough for a cyno to go up and you have the makings of a nice fight. To make that at all worth it, a Rorqual in industrial mode, with a mining fit would have to mine at least as much as 2-3 maxed Hulks. Just make it mine almost nothing out of industrial mode. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2167	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:49:37 - [9] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: To make that at all worth it, a Rorqual in industrial mode, with a mining fit would have to mine at least as much as 2-3 maxed Hulks. Just make it mine almost nothing out of industrial mode. No, because it can do more than mine while it is mining. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Gabriel Elarik Celestiel Rams 2	Posted - 2015.01.04 09:22:20 - [10] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim let them dream but its true that the rorqual needs a new role and even ccp statet that they need to address this problem i hope its not to far in the future and not something that dosnt get the rorqual out of the pos
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2167	Posted - 2015.01.04 12:42:30 - [11] - Quote Howabout a mining laser target painter which makes the targeted asteroid get mined faster by anyone else trying to mine it? You can target multiple asteroids if you fit multiple painters, but then you should probably be armor tanking. But hey, leave that up to the folks who bring em into belts. Also, Rorqual defenses should be brought up to par with carriers. It's kinda lacking. Since it already can't fit a triage module, why not let it have the powergrid to fit a proper tank+RR setup? And since it already can't fit drone control units, why not let it fly fighters? Just 5 fighters isn't so much. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 10	Posted - 2015.01.04 13:16:35 - [12] - Quote That's for sureRorq need some love. But as I said before it's better to have it able to mine in a IC mode. This would require support. it's shouldn't be a solo like mining pro.
Gabriel Elarik Celestiel Rams 3	Posted - 2015.01.04 13:49:54 - [13] - Quote the problem is the IC nobody will risk the rorqual if you have to stay at one place for 5 min if the cycletime gets reduced than maybe i would risk the rorqual with a timer betwen 30 and 90 sec + skill to reduce the time
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2167	Posted - 2015.01.04 14:12:29 - [14] - Quote I EFT'd a Rorqual and Nidhoggur RR team, in which it was assumed that they would siege at the same time, so that if enemies showed up, the Nidhoggur would have improved self defense while it waited for a chance to save the Rorqual, and they would both come out of siege at the same time. I put full mining ganglinks on the Rorqual plus two cap transfers, and on the Nidhoggur I put two cap transfers, a remote shield booster, and a shield harmonizing ganglink--not enough capacitor or CPU to run another remote shield booster. They both have an on-board shield booster and I did some shopping to try and save costs but wound up running probably over a bil in fittings for both of them, mostly from deadspace hardeners. The Rorqual with Industrial Core on can maintain a 5000 HP/s tank for 5 minutes, when it jumps down to just 1000 HP/s, but that should be just fine as the industrial core's cycle time is only 5 minutes. When out of siege, the Rorqual is barely cap stable running the shield booster plus receiving remote shield boosts, giving it a very decent 8000 HP/s sustained tank. The Nidhoggur doesn't do so well, however. It has very high max tank in triage mode but its capacitor runs out very quick due to its four crippling capacitor flux coils, with just around 6000 hp/s sustained while in triage mode. Once out, it gets even worse: while trading capacitor with the Rorqual, it is almost cap stable and can maintain just about 4000 HP/s tank on its weaker resistances and with only the onboard rep working for it. I'm not sure how those values measure up in capital warfare, and I have no idea if I picked mods that were reasonably priced, but in any case it looks rather grim because I think any attacking gang will dive on the Nidhoggur and kill it, leaving the Rorqual defenseless. I don't really see any way to boost the Nidhoggur's defenses significantly without giving up on the Rorqual. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Lugh Crow-Slave 395	Posted - 2015.01.04 14:21:03 - [15] - Quote Daoden wrote: I see WH miners loving this idea since they can still close there system off Oh the pretty KMs we roll into there hole when there is still 2 or so min on their cycle get the dics going untill we can get set up and then boom
Ms Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2015.01.04 15:34:30 - [16] - Quote Hotdrop bait. Only an idiot would put a capital into an anom for hours on end. Silly idea needs to finally go away.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2169	Posted - 2015.01.05 00:38:57 - [17] - Quote Ms Forum Alt wrote: Hotdrop bait. Only an idiot would put a capital into an anom for hours on end. Silly idea needs to finally go away. A silly idea is to put a capital ship into the game that will virtually never see combat. It's a giant waste of jump drive and powergrid. And the main waste isn't that it has no use outside of protection, but that its use is not diminished when it is inside protection. So right now, yes, only an idiot would put a Rorqual into an anomaly for hours on end. Other capitals may warrant it at times, however, depending on the anomaly and the subcap support. Of course this thread is attempting to suggest changes which may bring the Rorqual out of its little safe-nest and force it into danger for it to be effective, without making that just a completely useless move. And your comment is deliberately destructive to that idea, shooting down the entire thread as well as the greater dream it is based on, as it you see nothing wrong with the current hiding Rorqual mechanics, and nothing right with attempting to fix that. Your comment is the problem, that attitude is not needed here. You are welcome to comment here but keep it constructive. If you think this whole thread is going in the wrong direction, try explaining why you feel that way, and point out some supporting evidence. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 12	Posted - 2015.01.05 02:47:13 - [18] - Quote Hmm, maybe one of those drama of losing afk Rorq? Or just a troll alt.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy 664	Posted - 2015.01.05 11:23:16 - [19] - Quote Petrified wrote: Ah... but will people complain if it out-mines a Hulk? one truth I learned here a long time ago is people will complain regardless of which direction you go. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á- [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Ms Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2015.01.05 12:16:34 - [20] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: And your comment is deliberately destructive to that idea, shooting down the entire thread as well as the greater dream it is based on, as it you see nothing wrong with the current hiding Rorqual mechanics, and nothing right with attempting to fix that. Your comment is the problem, that attitude is not needed here. You are welcome to comment here but keep it constructive. If you think this whole thread is going in the wrong direction, try explaining why you feel that way, and point out some supporting evidence. Don't tell me where I'm welcome to comment and how, you Stalinist. I'm an elite Rorqual pilot and have invested a lot of skills into it in the past. Here's a previous thread I (my previous forum alt) started on the subject. And just FYI, here's what the Rorqual zkillboard looks like right now. The reason I show that is because it's true that often a Rorqual will adequately defend itself (efficiency 77.8%). But is a 77.8% chance of survival really good odds for a 2.5 billion ISK asset? I don't think it is.
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 14	Posted - 2015.01.05 12:55:44 - [21] - Quote Ms Forum Alt wrote: Reaver Glitterstim wrote: And your comment is deliberately destructive to that idea, shooting down the entire thread as well as the greater dream it is based on, as it you see nothing wrong with the current hiding Rorqual mechanics, and nothing right with attempting to fix that. Your comment is the problem, that attitude is not needed here. You are welcome to comment here but keep it constructive. If you think this whole thread is going in the wrong direction, try explaining why you feel that way, and point out some supporting evidence. Don't tell me where I'm welcome to comment and how, you Stalinist. I'm an elite Rorqual pilot and have invested a lot of skills into it in the past. Here's a previous thread I (my previous forum alt) started on the subject. And just FYI, here's what the Rorqual zkillboard looks like right now. The reason I show that is because it's true that often a Rorqual will adequately defend itself (efficiency 77.8%). But is a 77.8% chance of survival really good odds for a 2.5 billion ISK asset? I don't think it is. Not sure what makes you think otherwise, there is no ship in game which could stand alone vs. gang. How many freighters got blown daily, is that mean CCP should change them to protect? The whole idea is to add new role to ORE cap ships, that's it and as I said it's a common question - isk vs. risk. So its up to you will you move Rorq to the belt alone or have a strong back up for it, really doesn't matter to me.
Ms Forum Alt Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2015.01.05 13:40:41 - [22] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: Not sure what makes you think otherwise, there is no ship in game which could stand alone vs. gang. How many freighters got blown daily, is that mean CCP should change them to protect? The whole idea is to add new role to ORE cap ships, that's it and as I said it's a common question - isk vs. risk. So its up to you will you move Rorq to the belt alone or have a strong back up for it, really doesn't matter to me. CCP doesn't have to do anything. I'm talking about player behaviour. My Rorqual will stay inside a POS forcefield. It's not going into an anomaly to start mining. The best strategy to avoid losing something is to minimise the attack surface area. That is to say, the amount of time it's vulnerable to attack. Putting it into a belt is the absolute antithesis of this.
Gabriel Elarik Celestiel Rams 3	Posted - 2015.01.05 13:56:51 - [23] - Quote true even ccp statet that putting the rorqual right know in a belt is suicide
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2178	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:46:10 - [24] - Quote I don't think it is, either. We agree on this, yet your solution is keep it out of fights while my solution is beef it up cause it's too squishy. Yours is deliberately evading a solution to the problem and attempting to support POS-locked ships. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Kurtz Eldorado Exploration Expedition 13	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:28:12 - [25] - Quote Want to see a Rorqual in a belt? Let them use gates into Empire space. Want to see a Rorqual in a POS no matter what is done to buff the offense or defense of the ship, operate one in Low/Null/WH. As many have commented, there is absolutely no reason to deploy a multi-billion ISK asset in an environment that could result in its destruction, when it can provide the same bonuses from the safety of POS. I see no reason to buff the Rorqual with capital strip miners or added combat capabilities. It is an industrial support ship plain and simple. What I would like to see is the drone bonus removed and the ability to use empire gates in exchange. This should prevent the Battle-qual from becoming a reality, without changing the operation of the ship in Low/Null/WH from how it is used there already.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2179	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:39:08 - [26] - Quote Kurtz wrote: As many have commented, there is absolutely no reason to deploy a multi-billion ISK asset in an environment that could result in its destruction, when it can provide the same bonuses from the safety of POS. The purpose of the discussion is to provide ideas to ensure the Rorqual is viable WHEN it no longer is allowed to provide its bonuses from the safety of the POS shield. There is little argument over whether it will eventually happen and zero intelligent debate opposed to the idea. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Paynus Maiassus Capital Munitions 213	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:42:04 - [27] - Quote I am not for this type of change. Frankly, I think the Rorqual just needs its bonuses changed to reflect how it is used. Get rid of the tractor beam and scanner bonuses and accept that it will only be used in a POS. I think there should be a T2 Rorqual added to the game that is a game changer for mining in PvP space, namely an invulnerability field set up with a specific set of uses and factors for onlining and offlining and all that will let it be the centerpiece of timer battles as well as making mining ops in dangerous space viable. Regardless of the specific changes, though, the idea of a capital level booster and compressor is a cool one and I would hate to see this game without the Rorqual as it fundamentally is, a booster ship. It has always been very utilitarian and I would not mind seeing its jump range increased a bit so it can be closer to the hauler it once was. Ideas such as expanding its industrial role in various ways, such as letting it do reprocessing, are good. Also, hopefully clones and clone vat bays will be updated so that clones can actually jump to and from the ship and be stored in the ship rather than just being a way to create new clones. Things such as this that increase the Rorqual's general utility are what it needs. If people want a capital mining barge or a T3 mining barge or if they want some kind of mining ship that does more than the mining ships we have, then it needs to be based on a mining barge hull or a completely new ship. Please do not adopt this idea of making the Rorq into something other than a command ship/booster. The Rorqual is a great ship that could use some love, but is a great concept. The game would lose a lot without it. Really I think a lot of the Rorqual revamp ideas, especially those that involve killing the ship and making it as something else entirely (such as a capital mining barge) are from people that don't fly or use Rorquals. The idea doesn't appeal to them. But nullsec mining corp CEOs love them.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2179	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:43:55 - [28] - Quote Paynus Maiassus wrote: Get rid of the tractor beam and scanner bonuses and accept that it will only be used in a POS. Why should a ship only be used in a POS? If something were meant only for use in a POS, shouldn't it then be a POS module? T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Paynus Maiassus Capital Munitions 213	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:50:09 - [29] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Paynus Maiassus wrote: Get rid of the tractor beam and scanner bonuses and accept that it will only be used in a POS. Why should a ship only be used in a POS? If something were meant only for use in a POS, shouldn't it then be a POS module? Because it can be used to transport to and from a POS. It can also jump and fly to various POSes. Its compression alleviates the need to devote POS CPU to compression. It can also carry POSes in its cargo hold along with indy ships and fuel to set up POSes wherever it will operate. And these POSes can be small, as they don't need to devote CPU to compression. Do you run a mining corp? Do you fly a Rorqual? I flew my Rorqual all over the system and jumped to all sorts of various systems even though it is only wisely sieged in a POS. And when I was in deep remote blue null and things were safe, I would drop siege regularly and fly it to he belt to scoop cans or empty containers and fly back to the POS to siege it. If you ran a mining corp or flew a Rorqual you'd know about all the uses it has as a cyno capable moving ship that sieges from within a POS.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:55:15 - [30] - Quote Would love to see a rorqual only cargohold buff ganglink. And could be the ONE ship in the game with hull rep bonuses. The real mans capship, the hulltanking rorq. Just think, its the only nonracial capship apart from sanchas(nation?). This sort of thing would be a godsend to supers and titans
Paynus Maiassus Capital Munitions 213	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:59:42 - [31] - Quote Zimmer Jones wrote: Would love to see a rorqual only cargohold buff ganglink. And could be the ONE ship in the game with hull rep bonuses. The real mans capship, the hulltanking rorq. Just think, its the only nonracial capship apart from sanchas(nation?). This sort of thing would be a godsend to supers and titans I actually love the idea of replacing the scanner and tractor bonuses to a link bonus to ships' ore holds that would be usable from within a POS.
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 15	Posted - 2015.01.06 01:02:40 - [32] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Paynus Maiassus wrote: Get rid of the tractor beam and scanner bonuses and accept that it will only be used in a POS. Why should a ship only be used in a POS? If something were meant only for use in a POS, shouldn't it then be a POS module? ..." hey grandpa, yesterday we've used your Cadillac which been sitting in a garage for ages, folks asked to help me, so we been moving stuff from a to b. Next thing happen a grandpa felt apart under the heart attack, cause it was his beloved car for ages he never unlock"... People are scared of changes more than stagnation.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2181	Posted - 2015.01.06 01:32:31 - [33] - Quote Paynus Maiassus wrote: Because it can be used to transport to and from a POS. It can also jump and fly to various POSes. Its compression alleviates the need to devote POS CPU to compression. It can also carry POSes in its cargo hold along with indy ships and fuel to set up POSes wherever it will operate. And these POSes can be small, as they don't need to devote CPU to compression. So then it's a big expensive workaround to bypass the CPU requirements of the POS modules. Tiddle Jr wrote: ..." hey grandpa, yesterday we've used your Cadillac which been sitting in a garage for ages, folks asked to help me, so we been moving stuff from a to b. Next thing happen a grandpa felt apart under the heart attack, cause it was his beloved car for ages he never unlock"... Not a fair comparison. The Cadillac was sitting in the garage unused; these Rorquals are providing fleet bonuses without opening the garage door. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 15	Posted - 2015.01.06 01:51:26 - [34] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Paynus Maiassus wrote: Because it can be used to transport to and from a POS. It can also jump and fly to various POSes. Its compression alleviates the need to devote POS CPU to compression. It can also carry POSes in its cargo hold along with indy ships and fuel to set up POSes wherever it will operate. And these POSes can be small, as they don't need to devote CPU to compression. So then it's a big expensive workaround to bypass the CPU requirements of the POS modules. Tiddle Jr wrote: ..." hey grandpa, yesterday we've used your Cadillac which been sitting in a garage for ages, folks asked to help me, so we been moving stuff from a to b. Next thing happen a grandpa felt apart under the heart attack, cause it was his beloved car for ages he never unlock"... Not a fair comparison. The Cadillac was sitting in the garage unused; these Rorquals are providing fleet bonuses without opening the garage door. Exactly, why not to undock them more often?
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 35	Posted - 2015.02.05 04:17:38 - [35] - Quote Bump
Amarisen Gream The ArK's Hammer ArK Alliance 62	Posted - 2015.02.05 08:16:15 - [36] - Quote On grid boost FTW. We get that > then let's talk capital ship changes. xoxo Amarisen Gream
Arthur Aihaken Narada 4241	Posted - 2015.03.29 04:44:42 - [37] - Quote I think there are a few interesting things you could do with the Rorqual, and the ideas presented to both expand its use and increase its combat or defensive capability are good ones. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1173	Posted - 2015.03.29 05:36:02 - [38] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5207164 CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Lienzo Amanuensis 58	Posted - 2015.03.29 19:02:58 - [39] - Quote Someone mentioned the idea of a new class of fighter-sized mining drones for the mining capital. But really, getting the Rorq to use its bonuses in a belt is a matter of changing where and how ores are found. It'll mean massive belts, deadspace mechanics governing bookmarks and industrial cynoes. It'd mean new variable d-scan inhibiting mechanics for asteroids, and emitting a warp disruption field around them to make it at least a little fair for the hunters. LINK Perhaps there could be new mechanics around the new structures to help find more hidden fields. Survey range bonus? Expand this to the ability to find asteroids. Perhaps the details of asteroids could be anonymized until they are scanned. Only a trained geologist can tell what a rock type is, and even then they have to sometimes pull out the HCl dropper or bring it back to the lab. Surveying in general could be a timesink replacement, allowing for displacement elsewhere. The lengthier the process, the more worthwhile it is to give industrial ships bonuses to it. The only people training up survey skills now are people who do ship/cargo scanning, a long ignored miniprofession in itself. Some of the abilities overlap painfully with the Orca. Really, there's no reason for Orcas to not also get a mining drone bonus and a more serious drone bay. Clone vats really only have any utility in WHs. Ore compression is really the key ability. Activated in the d-scan shadow of a remote asteroid, a core coupled with the vast storage of the Rorqual should allow a comparatively "nimble" ore hauling ship to carry a vast amount of ore collected on that expedition to some refinery. This is the ability that leverages the cargo storage abilities of an attendant Orca. This won't change so long as pilots can simply warp between a dropoff POS and a bookmark next to an asteroid. Mining ships need a reason to get and stay wherever they are. It should be possible for a solo venture, but investments should have obvious rewards. A game of cat and mouse should be possible, with the lengthy travel time that ought to be part and parcel of ore extraction. Surely some pirates out there should be keen on the idea of following a miasmos back to its friends, and giving the miasmos pilot a strong reason to train for a blockade runner. Darting from rock to rock might be interesting, and faster even for the Blockade Running as they can open up their MWD by decloaking. However, d-scan shadows, like mobile scan inhibitors, affect both those hidden as well as those who hide.

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