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Globby
frogdogs Shut It Down
6
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Posted - 2015.01.09 00:56:33 -
[1] - Quote
Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?
I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.
As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.
So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.
What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client? |
412nv Yaken
The Conference Elite CODE.
252
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Posted - 2015.01.09 01:40:56 -
[2] - Quote
Globby wrote:Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?
I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.
As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.
So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.
What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client?
I fully agree. +1
A True Champion of High Security Space
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Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2015.01.09 01:59:05 -
[3] - Quote
Globby wrote:Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?
I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.
As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.
So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.
What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client? You'd think having recently found a way to castrate CONCORD would be enough for some players...
Quote:being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.
You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect. |
Globby
frogdogs Shut It Down
7
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Posted - 2015.01.09 03:38:55 -
[4] - Quote
Quote: A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.
You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.
The issue at hand is bumpees are escaping player versus player interaction by exiting the client, which is nearly as broken as a tackled capital ship being able to disappear from space by exiting the client.
Bumping someone doesn't allow you to avoid content. |
Yolandar
Estrogen Industrial Enterprises
31
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Posted - 2015.01.09 08:38:06 -
[5] - Quote
Globby wrote:Quote: A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.
You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.
The issue at hand is bumpees are escaping player versus player interaction by exiting the client, which is nearly as broken as a tackled capital ship being able to disappear from space by exiting the client. Bumping someone doesn't allow you to avoid content.
Have an alt aggress him. If freighter pilots expected to have a webby alt to escape, you can damn well do the same. Jeez...some ppl |
Siegfried Cohenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2015.01.09 08:54:02 -
[6] - Quote
Globby I think you're upset that you aren't as skilled as other bumpers out there. I vaguely remember you scoring low during the bump bowling event and also lost during the 8 hour bump-an-orca-to-the-bahromab-gate event as well. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
344
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Posted - 2015.01.09 08:55:56 -
[7] - Quote
I'm sure CCP with change a whole mechanic just because you are unable to gain a killmail with the easiest form of PvP ingame.
Have you tried shooting shuff that is capable of shooting back? it is far more fun |
Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Skeleton Crew.
31
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Posted - 2015.01.09 09:42:52 -
[8] - Quote
Aggro the ship with something. Does that not prevent it from disappearing? Even if it could warp to emergency exit spot w/e, you should still be able to combat scan it down. There are many other mechanics to pvp that has more issues tbh, but this really is not one of those. |
Mag's
the united
18598
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Posted - 2015.01.09 10:00:08 -
[9] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:Aggro the ship with something. This.
Also, wrong forum.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3476
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Posted - 2015.01.09 10:20:45 -
[10] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1115
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Posted - 2015.01.09 10:57:28 -
[11] - Quote
So, Globby and CODE don't want to sacrifice a Noob ship anymore when their bumps fail?
For the sake of argument: What are the downsides of this mechanic? You can only do it on grid with the target? You get a criminal timer for pressing the button? You can't warp away from the grid or leave or self-destruct your suspect/criminal timered ship? |
Globby
frogdogs Shut It Down
9
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Posted - 2015.01.09 11:24:26 -
[12] - Quote
Well I mean, using a noob ship is easy but it requires you have another account, which I do and I always have it ready, but this method is just easier and works better. If you log off while being bumped you just disappear- completely removing you from any player versus player interaction. I'm not saying that it's hard currently to stop this, just that it makes no sense to have to shoot him to keep him in the game when you're obviously interacting with him.
The downsides of this mechanics are equal to the downsides of aggressing with an alt, nothing.
I just think that people should be able to keep people that they are interacting with with them for at least one 15 minute cycle.
Thank you Ezwal for moving my thread and being the epitome of forums moderation. I thought I put this in Features and Ideas Discussion. |
Aran Hotchkiss
Phoibe Enterprises
50
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Posted - 2015.01.09 11:51:27 -
[13] - Quote
I guess what irks me the most about the gank game is the whole arrangement of bastardised Macharials for maximum bumping, the whole fleet of gank catalysts geared up for maximum dps/isk, and how the fight's outcome is over before it's even begun - you've got banking down to an art, got every detail of the engine mechanics mapped out and you're very good at gaming the system even with CONCORD's presence.
So when I hear that freighter pilots can game the system their own way by just loging off to avoid being held down by Machariels (such a pretty ship btw) I'm fairly... Meh about it.
For this thread to achieve anything being implemented you'd need to have a large/majority, coherent support for this, and since both sides of this argument (gankers/gankees) see the other as a group of well... Whiney bitches, I don't see this happening.
Shamelessly stole this line,
Alternatively, QFT
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1115
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Posted - 2015.01.09 11:56:35 -
[14] - Quote
Globby wrote:Well I mean, using a noob ship is easy but it requires you have another account, which I do and I always have it ready, but this method is just easier and works better. If you log off while being bumped you just disappear- completely removing you from any player versus player interaction. I'm not saying that it's hard currently to stop this, just that it makes no sense to have to shoot him to keep him in the game when you're obviously interacting with him.
The downsides of this mechanics are equal to the downsides of aggressing with an alt, nothing. How about friends? I get to hear almost every day how awesome they are in EVE.
The downside if aggressing with a Rookie ship is that you lose the Rookie ship and Concord spawns, the Rookie ship pilot gets a timer, sec status loss, and the aggressed party gets a kill right on the Rookie ship pilot. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1132
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Posted - 2015.01.09 11:56:41 -
[15] - Quote
I can see your motivation behind this, and I agree that logging off to avoid PvP is a cheesy tactic regardless of the context. I appreciate your "once per 24 hour" cap to limit abuse, but I'm still going to have to go with a "no" here.
If you want to aggress someone, aggress them and suffer the consequences. Plain and simple. If you're worried about a freighter that you're bumping logging off, keep a pilot in a sacrificial noobship handy to aggress the freighter immediately.
What do gankers tell freighter pilots?
If you want to haul effectively you need to bring friends and use all the tools at your disposal instead of whining for "easy mode".
The same applies to ganking sir.
If you want to gank effectively, you need to bring friends and use all the tools at your disposal instead of whining for "easy mode".
-1. Existing game mechanics effectively allow this already, you just need to phone a friend.
Yes, Hull Tanking is a thing.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Skeleton Crew.
32
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Posted - 2015.01.09 12:01:59 -
[16] - Quote
If pumping would result in aggression timer, that would cause alot of trouble ingame. Imagine fleet op in null sec. It is way past your prime time zone and its getting late. Your fleet has a pair of supercarriers accompanied by carrier group and sub capital support. The fleet is returning home through gate travel due to heavy jump fatigue. Due to fleet size everyone is getting pumped all the time you land on gates. You finally reach your staging system and supers jump to their safe posses. Normally fleet would disband here, but due to new pump aggro mechanics, those supers can't log off for next 14 minutes. The fleet has to wait on standby through this time. Not nice.
And this is only one example. Similarly right click and start aggro timer -button would be bad idea. Sure it would make your ganking maybe little easier, but in meanwhile half of eve is getting trolled as people keep activating each others timers. Just use noob ship please. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
812
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Posted - 2015.01.09 13:08:57 -
[17] - Quote
Globby wrote:Quote: A form of player versus player interaction that doesn't flag you for appropriate player versus player consequences. Fix that and you can have your timer.
You wanna right click and keep me in space? Okay, I can right-click you and tag you for a bump. Hit me 5 more times and you turn suspect.
The issue at hand is bumpees are escaping player versus player interaction by exiting the client, which is nearly as broken as a tackled capital ship being able to disappear from space by exiting the client. Bumping someone doesn't allow you to avoid content.
Target + activate offensive module.
It's 100% under your original proposition (simple, works every time) and achieves exactly the result you wish (15min logoff timer). |
Quadima
From Our Cold Dead Hands The Kadeshi
120
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Posted - 2015.01.09 13:37:40 -
[18] - Quote
I propose replacing cartoon bumping with ... you know... real physics.
Reality: Object A ( car ) collides with object B (wall) ... Car becomes a big pile of contorted metal.
EVE: Object A ( Machariel ) collides with Object B (Freighter) ... they bump each other like balloons. Really ?
Eve is "Real" eh?
--- So instead of bumping, both objects would take damage when their impact speed is high enough, and if the damage is too high, the weaker one would go... "pop!" Good luck bumping massive metal things with tiny fragile stuff...
Ah yes, and when damage is involved it's considered an attack. Bump someone causing damage = CONCORDOKKEN.
Flame on ! |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
660
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Posted - 2015.01.09 14:28:28 -
[19] - Quote
Wait. You're not trolling?
Wow.
If you want to bring in game conflict, man up and flag up. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
765
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Posted - 2015.01.09 14:31:37 -
[20] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:I'm sure CCP with change a whole mechanic just because you are unable to gain a killmail with the easiest form of PvP ingame.
Have you tried shooting shuff that is capable of shooting back? it is far more fun
I'm not sure how you can call shooting a really large slow ship THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY OFFENSIVE CAPABILITY play vs play.
I know, I know, I'm picking nits here, but it seems illogical to use the VERSES term when it is impossible to fight back.
I'm OK w/ the R-click to give a 15 min log of flag, BUT ONLY IF freighters can activate an ECM burst module that doesn't flag them to concord or other players and only works on players locking them. This would be both fair and balanced.
You get your desired "impossible to get away button" and they get an "impossible to catch" button.
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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
721
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Posted - 2015.01.09 15:08:44 -
[21] - Quote
Nut up, butt up, face the wall, take it in the behind, pull the trigger with disposable character with a scram, and there you go. Can't do it, you are failing hard. Apparently it is that damn hard. Its what started the timer to prevent people from logging off when their ship had massive HP such as caps, tackled with a ship that lacked DPS, and had to wait for the calvary to appear only to watch it disappear before their very eyes...which you cannot do now. Hell, it even has a wiki for the uneducated.
Capsuleer Log-Off Timer
Also known as PVP Flag is similar to the NPC flag, this flag is activated when you use an offensive module on another player (including non-targeted weapons like Smartbombs) or another player uses such an effect on you. This flag lasts for fifteen minutes, and affected ships will remain in space after logging off for a full 15 minutes. If the ship is aggressed by another player while this timer is active, the timer will reset, potentially keeping the ship in space indefinitely. For more info, see the PVP Logout Timer wiki page.
Guess what, might have to probe it out requiring some effort (holy sh!t, didn't think people couldn't try anything that wasn't easy)....but can't have the easy life with a Mach and zero risk to your over priced battleship that you refused to PVP with (Would be awesome to see a gank in officer fit pirate ships against barges....too many p*ssies in the game too afraid to fly anything but a cheap destroyer) except in belly bumping contest like fat sumo wrestlers. Might as well nerf the mach, since bumping is creating such a kvetching competition about the mechanic. |
Iain Cariaba
860
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:18:46 -
[22] - Quote
Globby wrote:Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?
I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.
As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.
So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.
What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client? Alternatively, you could stop being bad at EvE.
Seriously.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Globby
frogdogs Shut It Down
9
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:25:38 -
[23] - Quote
I mean, if I'm ready and prepared it makes no difference to me, it just makes no sense that I have to have someone suicide a ship into someone when the act of bumping should make it unable for him to log off. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
1115
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:28:48 -
[24] - Quote
You want to suicide him anyways. What's the difference? |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
80
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:44:51 -
[25] - Quote
Globby wrote:Since when is shooting people the only form of PvP in eve?
I propose that we should be able to inflict a 15 minute capsuleer log off timer by simply right clicking on a player's name and clicking a button. This can prevent people from avoiding ingame conflict by exiting out of their client, specifically for those freighters who instantly log off when they see a Macharial on gate.
As far as I know, aggression timers were created to keep players from being able to disappear from PvP, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction. I cannot tell you how many times a freighter has gotten away from me and has lived simply because he closed his client and left the game for several hours, only to log back on when he has eyes on where he logged off and has made sure the person bumping him is logged off. To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.
So to make it so this isn't abused, I would give each player the ability to 'tag' every other player once per 24 hours. You can't have one guy 'tagging' the same guy forever, and you can't have an alt 'tag' his main to make it so he can't be caught again.
What are your thoughts? Why is combat the only pvp combat that doesn't allow you to escape by simply closing the client?
Since the griefers now think that " being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction" Concord should show up as soon as the bump happens.
Not sure the OP thought the whole thing through. But its good to see that they consider the bump to be an act of aggression.
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Velicitia
XS Tech
2718
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Posted - 2015.01.09 16:54:15 -
[26] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Dilligafmofo wrote:I'm sure CCP with change a whole mechanic just because you are unable to gain a killmail with the easiest form of PvP ingame.
Have you tried shooting shuff that is capable of shooting back? it is far more fun I'm not sure how you can call shooting a really large slow ship THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY OFFENSIVE CAPABILITY play vs play. I know, I know, I'm picking nits here, but it seems illogical to use the VERSES term when it is impossible to fight back. I'm OK w/ the R-click to give a 15 min log of flag, BUT ONLY IF freighters can activate an ECM burst module that doesn't flag them to concord or other players and only works on players locking them. This would be both fair and balanced. You get your desired "impossible to get away button" and they get an "impossible to catch" button.
pretty sure it's "you're a player, I'm a player, we're at odds" ... but I could be wrong.
Now, while I'm at it -- "instant aggro timer by butan" is achieved with a noobship or other throw-away vessel (or, in some cases something that you didn't want to throw away).
I can also see the point of "bumping me way more than is necessary ... activate [thing] ... 3,2,1 ... now he's suspect" (but it must have restrictions, e.g. freighters only, and minimum 3 bumps between activation and "suspect timer for the other guy")
Other players then have the choice to blap the bumper ... or not ...
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1134
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Posted - 2015.01.09 17:04:55 -
[27] - Quote
Globby wrote:I mean, if I'm ready and prepared it makes no difference to me, it just makes no sense that I have to have someone suicide a ship into someone when the act of bumping should make it unable for him to log off. It makes perfect sense. If you want to give someone an aggression timer, you have to aggress them. In hisec, that most often means a suicide attack.
Aggressing ships to prevent them from logging off is, and has been for some time, an integral part of supercap warfare. If losec supercap hunters trying to bag a titan can handle aggressing their target, so can a hisec suicide ganker.
Yes, Hull Tanking is a thing.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
425
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Posted - 2015.01.09 18:15:52 -
[28] - Quote
Globby wrote:, and being bumped is a form of player versus player interaction To be honest, exiting the game to avoid conflict is very unethical and borderline exploitative.
Logging off is also part of that PvP you can now try and wait that player out or he can wait you out
just because i'm not logged in doesn't mean i'm not playing eve |
Calliope Schereau
People's Interstellar Republic of New Eden
1
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Posted - 2015.01.09 18:32:37 -
[29] - Quote
Looooool high sec bumper tears best tears |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
741
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Posted - 2015.01.09 18:40:55 -
[30] - Quote
Globby wrote:player versus player interaction. First of all the freighter needs to be acting against you directly for it to count as player versus player.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
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