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Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5559	Posted - 2016.12.06 18:09:57 - [8281] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Jerghul wrote: The trap would not have worked if afk cloaky campers had been hanging around. The cynos of course got into system and logged. Wrong again. Goons main staging system always has AFK cloakers in it. Yes. As a former member of the Imperium this was always the case. Same with their capital system. Always had at least one AFK cloaker in there. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5559	Posted - 2016.12.06 18:11:32 - [8282] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: baltec1 wrote: Dracvlad wrote: Why would you plonk it right next to them To bubble them? To have your max DPS dreads in range? To be in neut range? Dracvlad wrote: , you would put one down next to them, but another further back to warp in on them, as I said I have seen people jump to cynos in next door systems to warp through gates to get on people. So come again... And watch your targets warp out as most of that catch were aligned out, seconds count. Equally having to align down and warp in capitals takes a long time which would have resulted in several of those kills not happening at the end. Dracvlad wrote: You caught those Caps on a beacon, did you not? Did you really need an AFK cloaky to do this? Yes, they were the ones with the cyno and this Operation has taken weeks to pull off. So the instant cyno is over powered. Goons have the power to fight off most people around them, an AFK cloaky is not the same to them as a small alliance in provi. So did you cyno those Sabres in? I love how everything is OP except local with these people..... "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18473	Posted - 2016.12.06 19:40:48 - [8283] - Quote Quote: Pah, I know as much as you do about how these things operate, You really don't. I'm having to correct you on the most basic steps in null roaming and hot dropping. Quote: what is different between me and you is that I don't hang on easy stuff, So killing a small titan/super fleet in the very heart of imperium is now easy? Feel free to give it a go. Quote: don't forget you are the one who cried about the loss of can flipping. Another change you supported that reduced pvp. Quote: The thing is that if you would have had to log off more sabres rather than cyno them in to hold them on grid, it is still possible to do, just a bit harder. That would have allowed half the targets to escape, seconds count.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2539	Posted - 2016.12.06 19:49:33 - [8284] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Quote: Pah, I know as much as you do about how these things operate, You really don't. I'm having to correct you on the most basic steps in null roaming and hot dropping. Quote: what is different between me and you is that I don't hang on easy stuff, So killing a small titan/super fleet in the very heart of imperium is now easy? Feel free to give it a go. Quote: don't forget you are the one who cried about the loss of can flipping. Another change you supported that reduced pvp. Quote: The thing is that if you would have had to log off more sabres rather than cyno them in to hold them on grid, it is still possible to do, just a bit harder. That would have allowed half the targets to escape, seconds count. You have not corrected me once, what you did was put a point of view which I took on board and went with an array for caps too. As a suggestion. I was referring to your can flipping, what was done by PL in that battle was difficult in one sense but easy in another. The easy thing was getting the ship in firing range and I don't think that should be as easy. I am having a little giggle, when can flipping was removed I had not mentioned it once in any of my posts, true I found it lame and I have referred to it as a lame tactic but I do not remember ever having asked for it to be removed. Yes half would have gotten out, hence my comment it made it easier. When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour. Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus
Brokk Witgenstein Extreme Agony Mordus Angels 896	Posted - 2016.12.06 19:58:19 - [8285] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I love how everything is OP except local with these people..... Well, local does surprisingly little DPS... (baited on a free troll- sorry)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18474	Posted - 2016.12.06 20:03:06 - [8286] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: baltec1 wrote: Quote: Pah, I know as much as you do about how these things operate, You really don't. I'm having to correct you on the most basic steps in null roaming and hot dropping. Quote: what is different between me and you is that I don't hang on easy stuff, So killing a small titan/super fleet in the very heart of imperium is now easy? Feel free to give it a go. Quote: don't forget you are the one who cried about the loss of can flipping. Another change you supported that reduced pvp. Quote: The thing is that if you would have had to log off more sabres rather than cyno them in to hold them on grid, it is still possible to do, just a bit harder. That would have allowed half the targets to escape, seconds count. You have not corrected me once, what you did was put a point of view which I took on board and went with an array for caps too. As a suggestion. I was referring to your can flipping, what was done by PL in that battle was difficult in one sense but easy in another. The easy thing was getting the ship in firing range and I don't think that should be as easy. I am having a little giggle, when can flipping was removed I had not mentioned it once in any of my posts, true I found it lame and I have referred to it as a lame tactic but I do not remember ever having asked for it to be removed. Yes half would have gotten out, hence my comment it made it easier. You think putting a mobile structure near enemy titans is a good plan, you were confused as to why the dreads were not tackling, you didn't know about dictor being the go to tackle vs capital until I told you, you don't know about the long align times and warping of capitals on grid after a jump, you don't know why dread bombs are dropped on top of the target rather than at range, you didn't know most capital fights are capitals being dropped on other capitals. The list goes on, you have no experience with this kind of gameplay and it's no good trying to lie that you have because you have never been in any organisation that does these things.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5560	Posted - 2016.12.06 20:44:38 - [8287] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I love how everything is OP except local with these people..... Well, local does surprisingly little DPS... (baited on a free troll- sorry) Exactly. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2540	Posted - 2016.12.06 20:46:34 - [8288] - Quote baltec1 wrote: You think putting a mobile structure near enemy titans is a good plan, you were confused as to why the dreads were not tackling, you didn't know about dictor being the go to tackle vs capital until I told you, you don't know about the long align times and warping of capitals on grid after a jump, you don't know why dread bombs are dropped on top of the target rather than at range, you didn't know most capital fights are capitals being dropped on other capitals. The list goes on, you have no experience with this kind of gameplay and it's no good trying to lie that you have because you have never been in any organisation that does these things. Talk about putting words in my mouth, no I was not confused about the dreads not tackling, I was merely pointing out that this is now an option. No I looked at the BR and saw Sabres, and asked how you got them there, asking whether it was a bridge or a log offski, you really are projecting stupid mate and trying too hard. As I have capitals I am very aware of the warp in times, however I am talking about the options from my suggestion and how one would have to cater for it including leaving gaps in the bubbles to enable the dreads to warp in close enough. Skilled players like PL could pull that off IMO. All you have done is prove to me that you are fairly desperate to attack me personally which is rather lame. I have been in enough alliances and fleets that used caps to know and have talked with certain FC's who have used them, I do admit that my practical experience with them in PvP is limited, but I have been in and around some hits like this, for example I fought in the Tribute war with NCDOT. against the CFC. I was using another character mate, and only used Dracvlad a couple of times after Falcon. I will leave it at that mate... But do continue to tell me I have no experience at all, makes me laugh. EDIT: And baltec1, after a long time of fencing with you, I just think you are a colossal waste of time and adding you to my blocked list. Au rrevoir.... Actually this thread has really improved without the litter... When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour. Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5560	Posted - 2016.12.06 20:54:54 - [8289] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: baltec1 wrote: You think putting a mobile structure near enemy titans is a good plan, you were confused as to why the dreads were not tackling, you didn't know about dictor being the go to tackle vs capital until I told you, you don't know about the long align times and warping of capitals on grid after a jump, you don't know why dread bombs are dropped on top of the target rather than at range, you didn't know most capital fights are capitals being dropped on other capitals. The list goes on, you have no experience with this kind of gameplay and it's no good trying to lie that you have because you have never been in any organisation that does these things. Talk about putting words in my mouth, no I was not confused about the dreads not tackling, I was merely pointing out that this is now an option. No I looked at the BR and saw Sabres, and asked how you got them there, asking whether it was a bridge or a log offski, you really are projecting stupid mate and trying too hard. As I have capitals I am very aware of the warp in times, however I am talking about the options from my suggestion and how one would have to cater for it including leaving gaps in the bubbles to enable the dreads to warp in close enough. Skilled players like PL could pull that off IMO. All you have done is prove to me that you are fairly desperate to attack me personally which is rather lame. I have been in enough alliances and fleets that used caps to know and have talked with certain FC's who have used them, I do admit that my practical experience with them in PvP is limited, but I have been in and around some hits like this, for example I fought in the Tribute war with NCDOT. against the CFC. I was using another character mate, and only used Dracvlad a couple of times after Falcon. I will leave it at that mate... But do continue to tell me I have no experience at all, makes me laugh. EDIT: And baltec1, after a long time of fencing with you, I just think you are a colossal waste of time and adding you to my blocked list. Au rrevoir.... Actually this thread has really improved without the litter... So I guess Brokk-Jerghul and Dracvald are going to have their own little bubble like echo-chamber from now on. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18474	Posted - 2016.12.06 21:02:27 - [8290] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Dracvlad wrote: baltec1 wrote: You think putting a mobile structure near enemy titans is a good plan, you were confused as to why the dreads were not tackling, you didn't know about dictor being the go to tackle vs capital until I told you, you don't know about the long align times and warping of capitals on grid after a jump, you don't know why dread bombs are dropped on top of the target rather than at range, you didn't know most capital fights are capitals being dropped on other capitals. The list goes on, you have no experience with this kind of gameplay and it's no good trying to lie that you have because you have never been in any organisation that does these things. Talk about putting words in my mouth, no I was not confused about the dreads not tackling, I was merely pointing out that this is now an option. No I looked at the BR and saw Sabres, and asked how you got them there, asking whether it was a bridge or a log offski, you really are projecting stupid mate and trying too hard. As I have capitals I am very aware of the warp in times, however I am talking about the options from my suggestion and how one would have to cater for it including leaving gaps in the bubbles to enable the dreads to warp in close enough. Skilled players like PL could pull that off IMO. All you have done is prove to me that you are fairly desperate to attack me personally which is rather lame. I have been in enough alliances and fleets that used caps to know and have talked with certain FC's who have used them, I do admit that my practical experience with them in PvP is limited, but I have been in and around some hits like this, for example I fought in the Tribute war with NCDOT. against the CFC. I was using another character mate, and only used Dracvlad a couple of times after Falcon. I will leave it at that mate... But do continue to tell me I have no experience at all, makes me laugh. EDIT: And baltec1, after a long time of fencing with you, I just think you are a colossal waste of time and adding you to my blocked list. Au rrevoir.... Actually this thread has really improved without the litter... So I guess Brokk-Jerghul and Dracvald are going to have their own little bubble like echo-chamber from now on. Truth hurts. But then this is what happens when a high sec anti gank campaigner comes up against the likes of PL on the subject of capitals thinking they know more.

Xcom Quantum Vortex Battalion 73	Posted - 2016.12.07 09:26:51 - [8291] - Quote Yayy I'm on page 400. The only thread on PaID that ever hit this page. The one and only broken mechanic that have gotten this much attention and still been ignored by CCP :)
Xcom Quantum Vortex Battalion 73	Posted - 2016.12.07 09:36:12 - [8292] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Local is fine. The problem is really local. It is perfect, invulnerable, and provides a distinct advantage to those already in system. It is really the OP mechanic that local campers piggy back on to scare you back into station. Fixed it for ya bro. Stay on topic, we must force the fools who think this is a cloaking thread. Keep fighting the power, bro.
Jerghul Running with Dogs Stella Nova 42	Posted - 2016.12.07 11:31:26 - [8293] - Quote I don't think ignored so much as the victim of business concerns. You can say what you want about afk cloaky camping, but it is really good at keeping accounts online. The server took a hit with the crack down on multiboxing. Doubling down on that by whacking afk cloaky campers would have been couragous. Enter Alpha clones. Afk cloaky camping can be fixed now. Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Xcom Quantum Vortex Battalion 77	Posted - 2016.12.07 11:34:01 - [8294] - Quote How many systems are cloak camped at any point? cant be more then 10 system total.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2544	Posted - 2016.12.07 12:01:56 - [8295] - Quote And baltec1 is shown to be lying yet again, the AFK cloaky camper was not needed for that dread bomb, it was a bait dread that got the Goons to drop which then got counter dropped. When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour. Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa
Jerghul Running with Dogs Stella Nova 42	Posted - 2016.12.07 14:33:27 - [8296] - Quote Xcom ATK Cloak Camped? 10 sounds about right. AFK Cloak Camped? At least 300 in null sec alone Drac Not only was it not needed - AFK cloaky camping was avoided. The trap would have failed if anyone had been afk cloaky camping in the system. Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 325	Posted - 2016.12.07 14:46:14 - [8297] - Quote Quote: Jerghul wrote: Xcom ATK Cloak Camped? 10 sounds about right. AFK Cloak Camped? At least 300 in null sec alone Drac Not only was it not needed - AFK cloaky camping was avoided. The trap would have failed if anyone had been afk cloaky camping in the system. Jerghul pulling numbers out of his ass again. Show us the proof. Also, AFK-cloaking only works in sov-null due to that being the only place that uses local as their only Intel Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 2544	Posted - 2016.12.07 14:56:10 - [8298] - Quote Wander Prian wrote: Also, AFK-cloaking only works in sov-null due to that being the only place that uses local as their only Intel You might want to rethink that sentence, seriously dude... When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour. Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa
Xcom Quantum Vortex Battalion 77	Posted - 2016.12.07 15:01:00 - [8299] - Quote So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics.
Wander Prian Art Of Explosions Hole Control 325	Posted - 2016.12.07 16:54:36 - [8300] - Quote Xcom wrote: So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics. Congrats on breaking cloaking for everyone that uses it and nerfing the whole point of cloaks. Well done! Wormholer for life.

Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 837	Posted - 2016.12.07 17:24:27 - [8301] - Quote Xcom wrote: So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics. It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard. Do you even play this game? AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks.
Prince Kobol 2532	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:03:16 - [8302] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: Xcom wrote: So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics. It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard. Do you even play this game? AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks. Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game. Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them ( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong)
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5563	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:34:43 - [8303] - Quote Xcom wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Local is fine. The problem is really local. It is perfect, invulnerable, and provides a distinct advantage to those already in system. It is really the OP mechanic that local campers piggy back on to scare you back into station. Fixed it for ya bro. Stay on topic, we must force out the fools who think this is a cloaking thread. Keep fighting the power, bro. Local is fine and the only problem? Not much of a fix. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5563	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:37:45 - [8304] - Quote Xcom wrote: So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics. No, that is a made up number, try again. And most of the ideas would impact ALL ATK cloak users. Can't wait for all the whine threads as CODE. starts wholesale ganking of blockade runners if one of the more boneheaded suggestions are implemented. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5563	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:44:19 - [8305] - Quote Prince Kobol wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Xcom wrote: So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics. It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard. Do you even play this game? AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks. Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game. Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them ( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong) Supers live in LS too you know. People also use cloaks in LS too you know. Cloaks are not just used for camping you know. Depending on how you handle that detectability you could seriously screw over alot of players to get to a smaller subset. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Jerghul Running with Dogs Stella Nova 43	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:48:35 - [8306] - Quote Kobol Something that detects cloaking kills afk cloaky camping, but does not need to harm ATK cloaky camping if carefully implemented. Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all. Better than a timer approach, as at the time I was trying to give afk cloaky camping a window of possibility. But a window is too easy to exploit and extend until server downtime using third party applications. Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5564	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:50:29 - [8307] - Quote Lets try a thought experiment. Suppose we keep local and have the OA which allows cloak detection (which the Clown Posse of Brokk-Jerghul, Xcom, and Dracvald want), what is the likely result. Increased safety for NS. We'll still have local and the safety it provides and now on top of it will have the added safety the OA would bring to the game. So with local and the OA it is quite possible that number of ships killed while ratting, mining, etc. would go down, not up. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 5564	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:52:00 - [8308] - Quote Prince Kobol wrote: Sonya Corvinus wrote: Xcom wrote: So we have about 10 players in eve that this AFK cloaking mechanic would hit hardest, if it was removed. I would say that its alright to change the mechanics to weed them out. The other 300 would just have to setup 2 bookmarks and warp between the 2 over and over as long as people start looking for them. Sounds like an easy solution to a very simple problem and a very small alteration to game mechanics. It would hit every super pilot, every WH resident, every nomad (I have a character that only does PvE and hasn't docked in two months) extremely hard. Do you even play this game? AFK cloaking in null is by far the smallest part of the game that would be impacted by a nerf to cloaks. Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game. Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them ( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong) Oh and you can detect when an AFK cloaker or any cloaked ship is in system...you do it via local. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 837	Posted - 2016.12.07 18:54:37 - [8309] - Quote Prince Kobol wrote: Here is the problem with this discussion. It is solely focused on null sec, people forget that there are other aspects to the game. Whilst me and Dracvlad disagreed on various points, at the least neither of us wanted to remove cloaking, just implementing a mechanics that allowed people the chance to be able to detect them ( I apologise Dracvlad if I go that wrong) This is why you can't earn ISK or shoot anyone with an active cloak. It's a non-issue. Why should you be able to hunt someone who isn't a threat?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18475	Posted - 2016.12.07 19:10:52 - [8310] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: And baltec1 is shown to be lying yet again, the AFK cloaky camper was not needed for that dread bomb, it was a bait dread that got the Goons to drop which then got counter dropped. And how did that dread get there?



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