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Where now for Eve, CCP and the players?

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Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:25:00 - [1] Well I have now reached the point where I have been playing Eve for nearly six months. I have my BS and enough ISK to consider my in game character comfortable. Sadly it seems as though there is little left for me to do apart from roam around low sec Empire space or 0.0 looking of miners / N.P.C. hunters to pod or extort. This in itself can be a difficult practice and you often spend hours warping round looking for targets only for them to warp as soon as they see you (which is, in reality, the sensible option!). So I now ask myself where I go from here - if you are reading this post in a positive and warm mood about Eve herein lies a warning; it is not my most positive contribution to this forum ever although I believe it contains key issues that CCP has to address if the game is to truly prosper. Since I joined there has been new little new content although despite this some good additions have been made to the game. Regardless of the above we are still yet to see anything come of the joint Caldari / Gallante research project and the whole Jovian thing has died a death. As for the way that Miner 2's were introduced into the game - well it was completely farcical and someone once described it as "finding the cure for AIDS and giving it to Microsoft". Player / Polaris run events have been few and far between. When they have emerged they have been poorly organised often leading to hundreds of ships inhabiting one area thus causing incredible lag and other server related issues. In short these have bordered on a waste of time and the Amarr vigil thing didn't offer anything that couldn't be read on this forum twenty minutes after it happened. Then there is the standing joke that is CCP customer service. Bugs that were present in beta / early release are still there and many long promised features are yet to materialise. Large amounts of people don't bother filling out bug report forms because they know that little will be done to address the issues and there has been some suggestion (although not confirmed) that certain people at CCP have been deleting these in an attempt to create the impression that all is going well to their bosses. What we need from CCP is communication. We have said it countless times before. The biggest disappointment of Eve so far has been CCP signal failure to reflect player optimism and re-package it into a vision that all users can relate to. CCP talk of expansion packs and add-one but if they can't even introduce many features that were promised from release do we think that we will ever see such a thing as a first person option in the future despite the fact the developers once said in a CSM that this was on the agenda? Whilst on the subject of CSM we are often promised new content / fixes "some time soon" but as has been shown in another thread CCP definition of "some time soon" can be bought into question. In truth few of us players know where the game is going. Eve is decidedly light on any true content and it is a shame that regardless of how advanced your character is the best way to generate ISK is to sit in front of an asteroid for hours on end dragging ore from cargo hold to container. The market system is still a joke with most trade routes being filled within two hours of downtime. This is despite calls for NPC buy orders to be "randomised" so that people who cannot play straight after downtime have an equal chance of profitable trading. CCP once spoke of making trade goods an item required for ship production thus creating player generated demand but personally I think it will be a long time before this ever happens (if ever). Baby 'roid issue? Don't even get me started . As for player numbers these seem to have levelled out after a slow decline since early summer. Many people have quit the game after feeling that their character was "saturated" and that they had nothing more to achieve. Apparently Eve is about to be launched in Asia and whilst this can only be good any new players will still eventually find fault with many of the issues that we are all experiencing. Whatever the plan we need CCP to explain it us, otherwise the vacuum in communication is inevitably filled with hearsay and assumption, and the only way to hear the truth is to try and make head or tail of some CSM chat log. ItÆs easier making sense of the Hutton Inquiry. I make no apologies for the feelings expressed above but I am sorry if they cast a dark mood. Some of you might be fully in tune with me many more may not. I just hope my concerns over the future of the game are unfounded and, if not, that they are addressed and put right before we all look to go and play something else as many already have done. Fire engine on standby for flaming. ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Seer	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:40:00 - [2] No need for flames - you are putting all the valid points in one well mannered post as many have done before you. Hope it helped you vent your anger/frustration a little bit - cos it certainly wont help in getting any kind of response :( ---------------------------------------------------
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:44:00 - [3] Oh well - nice to know someone agrees with me! ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:45:00 - [4] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/10/2003 15:46:38 Should i now say something like 'all is going to change once T2 and (destructible) mobile refineries and player stations come in' ? I will then: All is going to change when T2 and (destructible) mobile refineries and player stations come in. Keep on going for a few months yet, you could always cut down on your game time in exchange for something else.. Eur 12,50 aint that much _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:47:00 - [5] Well done - that's a pretty fair summary of Eve as it is right now. I don't think anyone (if they're being honest with themselves) could disagree with any of it.
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:52:00 - [6] Very well writen - especially the minor II point.. content updates, although not advertised, seems to be every month or two, which is not really acceptable once players reach a certain skill and financial level. There is scope for a lot of fun, just needs to integrate quicker and cleaner into tranquility. It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Van Cleef	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:55:00 - [7] The market is effectively worthless. Attempting to make money through hauling is currently a waste of time. The time put into such adventures isnt worth the end payout. PC demand for things like "datasheets" and "Holoreels" is never going to drive the prices up. Most of the things gotten from loot cant even be sold on the market (which is ridiculous). Certain stations should be producing items the correspond to the station, and they should have a need for items that make up whatever they create. Every station except foodstuff planets should need things like water and grain, but looking at the sell list for a REGION (!!) you may only find one or two items wanted (besides the morons with the I'll buy it for a dollar!) Outer regions should have a HUGE need for stuff because they are removed from normal traffic. A new market would go along way to helping open up new possiblities for so many players (including pirates) The only thing that does work in the game is mining. Roid licking for hours will net you some money, but so many are doing it that they have sucked the market dry. PC combat is difficult unless you camp, fighting NPCs isnt all that challenging after a certain point. Do not get me wrong when I say this is a good game. Its just that steps could be taken that would make it better, and have more longevity for players. ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM
Avon	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:04:00 - [8] Dear CCP, Thank you for creating a huge player driven gaming enviroment, it is really an amazing feat of programing. However, I have no imagination so would you be so kind as to hold my hand and show me how to have fun. I have aquired all the toys I want from the current release and I now need you to give me new things to aim for. I have no idea how to form my own goals, I need you to do that for me. The thought of player interaction, or even role playing is competely foreign to me, and anyway it isn't my job to create content. I have no interest in shaping the Eve universe and driving the storyline, I guess that is part of being one of the TV generation. Help me CCP, you are my only hope. Yours A Customer ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:10:00 - [9] Oh look - a newbie running a one man corp thinks he knows it all Nice try muppet, but when things like the market are so patently broken then "player-driven" anything can't compensate.
Marianna	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:38:00 - [10] Right on Avon!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:47:00 - [11] I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. All I know is that in the time spent playing Eve I would've completed around 15 PC games from scratch to the maximum of their ability and not had half the fun I'm currently having with Eve. Each to their own, I guess, but I'm gonna renew my subscription on both accounts when they run out in December/January 'cause I think we'll see an influx of new players and, as a result, new optimism. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:52:00 - [12] good post. no answers so far.
Ubiq	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:09:00 - [13] I agree. I barely play anymore, just log in to set training skills. For people saying you need to roleplay more, that;s bull. I have played text based muds we more things to do than eve.
Myrmex	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:25:00 - [14] One thing i dislike from the beginning . What they tell us in patch is not exactly what is given out ... They say some thing is now implemented whilst it isnt , say they fixed something while it isnt ... And for god sake's we told you THOUSAND time to do small patch but they keep doing 1 month patch that are going to crash ONCE more for a full day ...
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:28:00 - [15] Quote: One thing i dislike from the beginning . What they tell us in patch is not exactly what is given out ... They say some thing is now implemented whilst it isnt , say they fixed something while it isnt ... And for god sake's we told you THOUSAND time to do small patch but they keep doing 1 month patch that are going to crash ONCE more for a full day ... worth repeating. so i did.
Torik	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:29:00 - [16] The way I see it a new set of player content tools needs to be added: area control tools. By this I mean things that let a corp effectively control a sector or a group of sectors. These would include but not be limited to player starbases and player sentry guns. This would allow a corp to control a sector without always needing a strong player presence in it. An enterprising corp could go out into 'deep' 0.0 space and fortify a sector with sentry guns on all gates. They would then build a station or two to store and process the resources they gather from the sector and its neighbors. This would give the players a whole new set of goals and would turn PvP from simple highway robbery to actual fight for control of vital resources. Already alliances and inter-alliance wars are adding major content to the game and this would simply extend it down to the individual corp level.
Avon	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:41:00 - [17] Quote: Oh look - a newbie running a one man corp thinks he knows it all Nice try muppet, but when things like the market are so patently broken then "player-driven" anything can't compensate. That post misses the point by so far it is only just funny. The market doesn't need to work. Players can set up stores, other players can come along and buy and sell to them. All the things you complain about are the things which get in the way with player interaction. The market doesn't work correctly, I agree, and as it is part of the game it should be fixed ... but it isn't a requirement, you can still trade with people. I guess there are lots of gamers here and not many roleplayers. I don't mean you have to stay in character, or even roleplay every situation. If you have never played a RPG you are unlikely to find your own enjoyment in Eve. Infact, don't think of Eve as a game, just as a set of rules and tools - build your own experience using them. If you expect CCP to keep you entertained this is clearly not the type of game you should be playing. Stick to games with an explicit win/lose storyline. Oh, and if the insults were directed at me, congratulations, a good effort. Unfortunately for you though I am married, which means I get insulted by an expert everyday .. infact even my two kids (5 and 1) are probably slightly better at put-downs. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:02:00 - [18] Edited by: McWatt on 22/10/2003 18:03:20 avon you re cool. but eve was neither planned to be a roleplaying game, nor does it give you the tools to play it as one. advertising some crap every 5 min in trade channel is not what i see as roleplaying a trader
Beringe	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:04:00 - [19] Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. Hear, hear. I first wrote a lengthy post where I picked the original post apart (like a complete jerk...which is a part of the reason why I deleted it), but I decided that this simple sentence better articulated my sentiment than a rant. Eve is what it is. If anything, my enjoyment of the game is growing day by day. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:32:00 - [20] Edited by: agrizla on 22/10/2003 18:33:38 Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. A couple of points Josh : 1) a lot of the people who are quitting are veterans of other MMOGs; 2) ISTR you saying this was your first MMOG, so don't be so quick to assume you know who is and isn't "cut out" for MMOGs eh? Oh and I'm sorry mate but I fail to see how an "influx of new players and, as a result, new optimism" is going to finally persuade the devs to fix the market exploits which have been there since day 1. NB - that's just an example you understand (I'm sure anyone who's been playing for 3 months or so could come up with a very long list of others). If you're happy with it then I'm glad for you, but please don't assume/imply that it is something amiss with players who quit. Most people I know that have quit were very sorry to leave but had got to the stage that they simply didn't believe what the devs said anymore. I'm not far off that point myself Edit for typo.
Singular	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:32:00 - [21] The real problem is we are hitting the "level-cap", meaning everyone is in battleships now, and has nothing to really save/play for. Who cares if tech 2 comes out. Everyone has so much money stockpiled, its silly. Whohooo 1 day of fun with my Whatever II I can buy. They need to make it a bit more challenging NPC wise, ie Battleship NPCs, better quests, etc.. Im Yo Huckleberreh
Hyundai	Posted - 2003.10.22 19:20:00 - [22] good post Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. heres a tennis ball go bounce it against that wall for a week then come back and tell me if your bored ! muppet " I wasnt aware of this..."
Qandor	Posted - 2003.10.22 19:34:00 - [23] Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. No, I guess the ones who are leaving can recognize a quality MMORPG and have grown tired of waiting for EVE to become one.
Keefus	Posted - 2003.10.22 19:46:00 - [24] I have to agree with most of what has been sed here, but tbh there no point in complaining. In essence the game is always been developed, to me its still Beta, but its come quite far since i've been playing (apart from the dia ~Last patch that REALLY screwed it all up!) I Really think we need to see some jove and other storelines come into play soon! and a Player stations are REALLY needed :D All toghter EVE is a strong Game and the buggs a bareable (well most are), i think there needs to be more Player imput.. ------------------------------------------------ mmmmm Carrot juice!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:43:00 - [25] Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:52:00 - [26] Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I think to understand Joshua's perspective you need the full story. Here's something one of his corp mates posted in another thread: Quote: a wise Minmatar once said: "we are paying for beta right now, the game is not finished, a year or 18 months after release will be much much more like how the game was intended, at this time CCP will launch huge advertising campaigns and players will flood to the game, but for now CCP wants to keep it small, they want to work out the bugs, and the 30,000 that are paying great they get some income flowing in, they expect to lose some people the first year. Now as a player, you have to understand this, you treat the game like this is practice before the real release happens and your beta advantage is that your skill points and blueprints earned in that first year is going to give you a tremendous advantage." I live and during bad times, direct my corp by these words. This isn't the final game, we are still many many moons away, but every day I play and every isk earned is one step ahead of the game i'm going to be when 10 to 20,000 people are on the server at the same time. It will come, believe me this game has the potential, just right now isn't that time. Those who stick around great lets have fun with the way the game isn't. THose who leave, have fun and i bet a good percentage of you will be back in a year and say damn i wish i was training over this year lost. The emphasis is added on my part. The naivette is the author's own. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:53:00 - [27] Quote: The real problem is we are hitting the "level-cap", meaning everyone is in battleships now, and has nothing to really save/play for. Who cares if tech 2 comes out. Everyone has so much money stockpiled, its silly. Whohooo 1 day of fun with my Whatever II I can buy. They need to make it a bit more challenging NPC wise, ie Battleship NPCs, better quests, etc.. Gathering as much isk as possible was never the real goal for me so I think I'll miss out on a lot in comparison to players who have a personal wealth of billions. Personally, from my own humble point of view, the people who have played Eve to get as much as possible as soon as possible are the ones who are leaving/getting bored. Those who are playing for fun are stickin' around. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:56:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I think to understand Joshua's perspective you need the full story. Here's something one of his corp mates posted in another thread: Quote: a wise Minmatar once said: "we are paying for beta right now, the game is not finished, a year or 18 months after release will be much much more like how the game was intended, at this time CCP will launch huge advertising campaigns and players will flood to the game, but for now CCP wants to keep it small, they want to work out the bugs, and the 30,000 that are paying great they get some income flowing in, they expect to lose some people the first year. Now as a player, you have to understand this, you treat the game like this is practice before the real release happens and your beta advantage is that your skill points and blueprints earned in that first year is going to give you a tremendous advantage." I live and during bad times, direct my corp by these words. This isn't the final game, we are still many many moons away, but every day I play and every isk earned is one step ahead of the game i'm going to be when 10 to 20,000 people are on the server at the same time. It will come, believe me this game has the potential, just right now isn't that time. Those who stick around great lets have fun with the way the game isn't. THose who leave, have fun and i bet a good percentage of you will be back in a year and say damn i wish i was training over this year lost. The emphasis is added on my part. The naivette is the author's own. He's the CEO and I totally agree. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 21:35:00 - [29] Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I'm collecting battleships until my subs run out. Might seem trivial to those of you in megacorps but it's a reasonable challenge for a freelancer When that's close (and I am not renewing again this time) I am going to hunt down the n00biest of n00bs and dump them all on him After that I'll wander off and do/play something else.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 21:42:00 - [30] Quote: Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I'm collecting battleships until my subs run out. Might seem trivial to those of you in megacorps but it's a reasonable challenge for a freelancer When that's close (and I am not renewing again this time) I am going to hunt down the n00biest of n00bs and dump them all on him After that I'll wander off and do/play something else. Now that's a way to leave Eve. I was planning on doing the same thing myself eventually. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 21:46:00 - [31] Well the score is three down and 5 to go Dunno if I can be bothered training Amarr tho, so maybe I'm half-way to my target....
Rath Amon	Posted - 2003.10.22 21:53:00 - [32] Edited by: Rath Amon on 22/10/2003 21:57:50 Edited by: Rath Amon on 22/10/2003 21:56:48 Quote: The real problem is we are hitting the "level-cap", meaning everyone is in battleships now, and has nothing to really save/play for. Who cares if tech 2 comes out. Everyone has so much money stockpiled, its silly. Whohooo 1 day of fun with my Whatever II I can buy. They need to make it a bit more challenging NPC wise, ie Battleship NPCs, better quests, etc.. These are my feeling exactly. The game design for Eve was fundamentally flawed at the outset in regards to progression. Everyone flying around in battleships is the result of poor planning if you ask me. It feels to me like the game is on cruise control in terms of what I need to do to progress. I mean, all I need to do at this point is just log in every five days or so and click a new skill. In my only other MMOG (Everquest) I had to be on top of things all the time to stay competitive and that made the game interesting for years. Every single character in this game is basically identical with equal access to every bit of equipment, ships, and soon skills. It makes for a very bland experience when there is nothing unique about anyone.
Qandor	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:02:00 - [33] Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? Fair question I guess. Actually I'm in a perpetual state of quitting. All I really need is a viable alternative to launch and I'm gone like a shot. Won't miss it one bit. Don't get me wrong, the game was a great concept and I still had faith even in beta although I didn't agree it was ready for primetime. I figured they would somehow manage some slow but steady progress in creating the game they advertised prior to release. Now, after 6 months and virtually no progress being shown, I find no reason to have any optimism. I have no real axe to grind. I have more isk than I could ever spend. I've never been the victim of griefing since I've done my best to play smart and I've been fairly lucky as well. I've accumulated over 6,250,000 skill points and not many have done that and no, before someone asks, I was not here for the skill point exploit in the first few days. My skill points are simply a reflection of maxing all the learning skills right off the bat. I've never filed a petition for anything other than being stuck so I have no CS beef either. I just don't see much of a game here and I'm frankly amazed others do. I certainly don't see the complexity that others rave about. I'm talking about delivered complexity, not the fairyland story of the "proposed" game that we read about for years prior to release, most of which hasn't been delivered. Here is my take in a nutshell. CCP had a fabulous concept for a game. It was an ambitous concept, now in retrospect probably way too ambitous for a start up company with no experience administering an online game. They were forced to launch prematurely, for whatever reason and I'm not necessarily buying S&I as the culprit here. At least not directly anyway. S&I denied it was their call to launch. I doubt any side is telling the complete truth. Most likely, development funds were running out and no one was willing to step forward with additional funding so CCP was compelled to launch ready or not. CCP probably felt they still might pull it off if they could get a reasonable subscription base going at the start. Unfortunately, game launch failed to gain the numbers they had hoped for. That put them in a bit of a bind. That may have led to the rash of "vacations' we heard about right after launch. Can't say I've ever heard of a company that started sending devs on vaction immediately following launch. Post launch, when they figured they could still maybe play catch up with the feature list they were hit with exploit after exploit that had to be fixed. We had the skill training exploit, the insurance exploit which caused the mini-rolback, and then the whole list of PvP exploits that continue to this day. While attempting to fix those exploits they broke other things and added additional bugs. The asteroid respawns went to hell in July. We were told that the asteroid dev was sick. Have you ever heard that from another company? We can't fix something because the only guy who can fix it is sick? Is that gent still sick, by the way, I wonder? So here we are 6 months in. No better off feature wise in any tangible way than we were at release. Many of the old guard have left and more continue to leave everyday. CCP has lost most of their credibility. Soon(tm) has become a running joke. I might ask you Josh, what exactly is it that keeps you so optimistic?
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:08:00 - [34] Quote: He's the CEO and I totally agree. You've got to be fecking kidding me. You (or your CEO) honestly expect people to pay for a game for 12-18 months waiting for it to reach release state? When it's already released? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:08:00 - [35] Quote: I might ask you Josh, what exactly is it that keeps you so optimistic? I just am. Always been the kind of guy who'll give something every chance to succeed. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:10:00 - [36] Quote: Quote: He's the CEO and I totally agree. You've got to be fecking kidding me. You (or your CEO) honestly expect people to pay for a game for 12-18 months waiting for it to reach release state? When it's already released? Why are you still paying then? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Qandor	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:19:00 - [37] Quote: In my only other MMOG (Everquest) I had to be on top of things all the time to stay competitive and that made the game interesting for years. Every single character in this game is basically identical with equal access to every bit of equipment, ships, and soon skills. It makes for a very bland experience when there is nothing unique about anyone. Bingo, you have summed up a glaring problem very nicely. There is just not that much to strive for here. That is brought into focus by the mass acceptance of this pathetic mission system, probably the most boring game play feature I've ever experienced. People are so bereft of anything meaningful to do or strive for that they are even willing to endure that obscenity.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:26:00 - [38] Quote: Quote: Quote: He's the CEO and I totally agree. You've got to be fecking kidding me. You (or your CEO) honestly expect people to pay for a game for 12-18 months waiting for it to reach release state? When it's already released? Why are you still paying then? First, don't dodge the questions. Second, I don't expect instant everything. I'm not aware of anytime I've ever said I did. But 12-18 months for the real game to be released would be asinine. I expect reasonable progression from a developer of a MMOG. Some things concerning Eve's development are reasonable, hence my continued payment. Many are quite unreasonable, hence the lack of my silence. If CCP doesn't learn faster and improve faster, I'll find it not worth the effort and go elsewhere. But to give 12-18 months? P.T. Barnum. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:31:00 - [39] Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: He's the CEO and I totally agree. You've got to be fecking kidding me. You (or your CEO) honestly expect people to pay for a game for 12-18 months waiting for it to reach release state? When it's already released? Why are you still paying then? First, don't dodge the questions. Second, I don't expect instant everything. I'm not aware of anytime I've ever said I did. But 12-18 months for the real game to be released would be asinine. I expect reasonable progression from a developer of a MMOG. Some things concerning Eve's development are reasonable, hence my continued payment. Many are quite unreasonable, hence the lack of my silence. If CCP doesn't learn faster and improve faster, I'll find it not worth the effort and go elsewhere. But to give 12-18 months? P.T. Barnum. 12-18 months is, perhaps, slightly too long but I've said that I expect Eve to start improving quickly over Xmas and into the New Year. Depends on your expectations, Jash; Eve might only last 2 yrs or it could last 4. No-one knows where it will end up. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Sidus	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:31:00 - [40] Quote: Quote: Quote: He's the CEO and I totally agree. You've got to be fecking kidding me. You (or your CEO) honestly expect people to pay for a game for 12-18 months waiting for it to reach release state? When it's already released? Why are you still paying then? Exactly... There is no doubt that CCP is walking the line by doing this... Their parent corp cut back and is looking to sell the gaming chunck of the business. Whether this is due to EVE or not doesn't really matter. The effect is the same. I don't think a lot of you people understand how complex this game is. UOL and EQ have nothing on this game. They are spread between many many different isolated servers. SWG didn't even try to compete with EVE on this. CCP is doing an awesome job of pioneering the single environment MMORPG. And yah, the game is currently a beta. What was called beta was actually alpha. This game isn't ready for a lot of people. There aren't many people who would pay for the opportunity to participate in something like this. I would. I understand where our CEO comes from completely. The people who hold out will be on top. They will rule this game. Corps like EV and members like Josh, Rath, and I will rule this game. For those who don't agree. I hear SWG is really fun. Might take you a solid year of play to become a Jedi, but hey. At least you don't have to fly around in ships... ________________________________________________ "Alle warten auf das Licht - f³rchtet euch f³rchtet euch nicht - die Sonne scheint mir aus den Augen - sie wird heut Nacht nicht untergehen - und die Welt zõhlt laut bis zehn"
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.22 22:55:00 - [41] Edited by: Jash Illian on 22/10/2003 22:57:16 Quote: 12-18 months is, perhaps, slightly too long but I've said that I expect Eve to start improving quickly over Xmas and into the New Year. Depends on your expectations, Jash; Eve might only last 2 yrs or it could last 4. No-one knows where it will end up. 12-18 months and the games that preceeded Eve were already developing expansion packs. And while you may say something like "But Eve is a completely different...", just save it. In 12-18 months other games will be appearing on the market, utilizing more recent and better technology. In 12-18 months, Eve will be dated and any innovative ideas CCP might have come up with will be features in upcoming games (if not already implemented). SWG may not have a lot of content but my understanding is they've already got Eve's tradeskill and market system beat to hell and back. And most importantly, in 12-18 months CCP and Eve will have the reputation of taking 12-18 months post release to deliver what they promised. Go ask Funcom and Anarchy Online what it takes to get past a reputation like that. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Qandor	Posted - 2003.10.22 23:25:00 - [42] Quote: I don't think a lot of you people understand how complex this game is. UOL and EQ have nothing on this game. OK, I'll ask - what is so complex about EVE? All I ask is that you stick to the facts. Please do not include wish list or pie-in-the-sky future features in your analysis. Just explain what is so complex about EVE in its current state.
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.22 23:35:00 - [43] Quote: Dear CCP, Thank you for creating a huge player driven gaming enviroment, it is really an amazing feat of programing. However, I have no imagination so would you be so kind as to hold my hand and show me how to have fun. I have aquired all the toys I want from the current release and I now need you to give me new things to aim for. I have no idea how to form my own goals, I need you to do that for me. The thought of player interaction, or even role playing is competely foreign to me, and anyway it isn't my job to create content. I have no interest in shaping the Eve universe and driving the storyline, I guess that is part of being one of the TV generation. Help me CCP, you are my only hope. Yours A Customer Er...what a complete load of tosh. In response: 1. You say I have no idea how to form my own goals - ok so what do I do when there is nothing else left to achieve but collect ISK? Do I really need another ship? My corp has 75 members - is another 20 really going to make that much difference? 2. You say I have no imagination - LOL I think that you will find that my original post was one of the most imagnative and well thought out posts on here for ages!!! 3. Apparantly role play is a concept I do not understand? For the last 3 - 4 months I have been role playing Barnett the pirate very well thank you often managing to extort cash as opposed to just blow stuff up. 4. No interest in shaping the Eve universe!!! LOL - probably the biggest load of rubbish in your post. I have plenty of interest however the current in game mechanics DO NOT PERMIT me to do so in any way other than by going round blowing stuff up. Where is the stockmarket etc...that we were promised? 5. Driving the storyline. Er...since when has there been a storyline to drive? ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Murple	Posted - 2003.10.22 23:46:00 - [44] Edited by: Murple on 23/10/2003 00:42:02 You guys always scream that it is our responsibility to create our own content. Ok so where are these tools to create our content? There isn't any mission editor. There is no base to defend. There isn't any real concrete way to conquer or invade territory. PvP I'm not really intersted in PvP. That is just my play style. I don't consider camping a jump-in point for 6 hours straight any idea of fun. There doesn't seem to be any "fair" or "honorable" way to PvP in this game like I find in other games. It all boils down to someone setting a trap for someone else and catching them off-guard. There isn't really an offensive way warp to someone and attack them. I think warping in general is the main cause of this problem. Anyways, enough of my ramblings. To sum things up some good points were brought up. CCP can't maintain these actions for this game to survive. A few people like Joshua have a romantic vision of this game. Most people don't share this vision. Thus, people will get bored and move on to something bigger and better. ...unless... Gotta love my city-sized roid vacuum cleaner!
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.10.23 00:09:00 - [45] Quote: Dear CCP, Thank you for creating a huge player driven gaming enviroment, it is really an amazing feat of programing. However, I have no imagination so would you be so kind as to hold my hand and show me how to have fun. I have aquired all the toys I want from the current release and I now need you to give me new things to aim for. I have no idea how to form my own goals, I need you to do that for me. The thought of player interaction, or even role playing is competely foreign to me, and anyway it isn't my job to create content. I have no interest in shaping the Eve universe and driving the storyline, I guess that is part of being one of the TV generation. Help me CCP, you are my only hope. Yours A Customer Yay, let's all IMAGINE the content! There is also no way to drive any storyline. All you've got is never-ending Guerilla warfare between alliances. And if I declare war on 3 Gallante corps to try to have faction warfare, is anyone gonna really care? Probably not even the corps I'd declare war on, since if things really got tough they could always pick up and go to another region to mine in their battleships. And how do I shape the universe exactly? I get a cruiser blueprint and become one of the 1,000 corps selling the same cruiser, for effectively a tiny amount of profit over just mining and selling to NPCs? Or do I get a battleship blueprint to become one of the 100 corps that sell the same battleship? One of the few companies that made an impact was Techell, but that was only through CCP's choice to have only 1 miner 2 blueprint on the market.
Jag Terran	Posted - 2003.10.23 00:32:00 - [46] There is a very clear and simple point regardless of CCP's excuses and regardless of all other arguments. The point is the following: The features enumerated on the box and in the manual are not in the game. I paid for those features. Where are they? I could not care less if the CCP dev team has to work 18 hour days to implement them or if the company is running a loss doing this. I want what was promised, period! By not delivering the promised product, CCP is breaching an implicit contract with the customer. I suggest CCP's management take care of this and make sure the Dev team expands and gets to work.
Serilla	Posted - 2003.10.23 09:11:00 - [47] No crap. in csm i think they said 6 months or more for player owned stations?? That is lame, At least give people something to defend their territory and people will have a point to play.
Jernau Gurgeh	Posted - 2003.10.23 09:29:00 - [48] Quote: Edited by: McWatt on 22/10/2003 18:03:20 avon you re cool. but eve was neither planned to be a roleplaying game, nor does it give you the tools to play it as one. advertising some crap every 5 min in trade channel is not what i see as roleplaying a trader It's a good way to roleplay a spammer though. There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not.
GraveDigger	Posted - 2003.10.23 09:56:00 - [49] Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. All I know is that in the time spent playing Eve I would've completed around 15 PC games from scratch to the maximum of their ability and not had half the fun I'm currently having with Eve. Each to their own, I guess, but I'm gonna renew my subscription on both accounts when they run out in December/January 'cause I think we'll see an influx of new players and, as a result, new optimism. well said dude :) I feel the same way, everyone is always *****ing about the 12 bucks a month crap. If not for eve I surely would have spent houndreds of dollars on games. as far as I'm concerned, every month I save money playing eve.
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.23 10:20:00 - [50] I am sorry Gravedigger - I don't understand how we cannot be cut out for MMORPG just because we are raising VALID issues regarding major flaws in Eve. ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Grimmacker	Posted - 2003.10.23 11:59:00 - [51] Come on CCP why no response from you ? Why do You keep pretending like you cant hear us, or quitely read these forums and laugh at us making these long posts about your game.... Why is there no COMMUNICATION? Its a sad day when I would rather come on these forums and have more fun then play the actual game they are intended for. Anyways Keep this post alive and let it stand as testimony to the players that care enough to post their two cents even when the DEVS or anybody at CCP even the janitor wont post anything.
Lombardo	Posted - 2003.10.23 12:24:00 - [52] I agree with what the majority are saying here. The big bugs are not fixed and the game is starting to achieve massive stagnation. My recommendations for CCP are: Manage expectation: If you say you are going to do something then do it! I have played since release, and apart from the Miner II debacle, nothing 'New' (not fixes) has been added. Trust is hard to gain and easy to lose Content: I loved DAOC in that there was always new stuff. If you are concerned about the release of higher tech items on the economy then retire obsolete models, but make sure that you get a good churn of new 'nice to have' gear. My corp like many others is dying a death and at the moment playing Eve on your own is like watching paint dry.
illuminati	Posted - 2003.10.23 14:39:00 - [53] Well said by most people, no major flaming thus far, good one. This game has lasted alot longer than any game I previously owned, but no, you cant create your own content and no, roleplaying isnt enough. Some stuff that should have been in from the start: ACTUAL research, you know what this means people! Warp to someone, no, not a module, it isnt possible to wage war or bountyhunt (or pirate) in any other way than gate/entry camping. BP copy production time INCREASE. There should be unique, good loot, but the master player producer should ALWAYS have the best stuff. A smart market, yeah, you tried the market? 3 times as much people creating agent mission variety, transporting garbage is slow, honest. Always easier to be critical than creative, I know. But game was released too fast and changes are much much slower now than at retail, it's obvious they have cut down too much on devs now to get good, fast changes because of the low subscription-number. There is a thin line between being an optimist and being stubborn
Heff	Posted - 2003.10.23 20:28:00 - [54] Eve is struggling to support its current content, it really can't support player-driven content, and it certainly isnÆt ready to support new content beyond a few little tidbits every few months. The infrastructure just isnÆt in place yet, and the staff may not be capable in its current form to build and/or support the infrastructure anytime soon. Without it, Eve can only inch forward at a snailÆs pace. That is good enough for some, and clearly not good enough for others. I liken the situation to starting your own business. If you donÆt have the start-up capital to get everything off the ground at once, you run the risk of failure as you can only focus on little pieces here and there. CCP opened a restaurant without tables and chairs and they put lobster on the menu when they didnÆt have it. Some people will order a hamburger and sit on the floor. Some will find a new place to eat.
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.23 22:23:00 - [55] Quote: CCP opened a restaurant without tables and chairs and they put lobster on the menu when they didnÆt have it. Some people will order a hamburger and sit on the floor. Some will find a new place to eat. I love that I will try and find some way to intergrate that saying into my vocabulary at some point! ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
EvilEric	Posted - 2003.10.23 22:39:00 - [56] Well I have been playing on and off since release.... Been a CEO of a 20 man corp.... been a trader, miner (yuck), producer, mission do-er (is there a word for that?)... all with varing levels of sucess but now I have enough cash, ships, mods and weps to last. So I am now building this alt, making 10 cruisers and joining a PvP corp. If I find that as frustrating as the rest of the "professions" then I will have to consider my game "finished" like a single player game. Btw ALL the corps I've been in have been outstanding and the members great. But I find myself more and more logging on just to chat. I can get that from mIRC for free! As we say in the army "I'm just marking time."
Van Cleef	Posted - 2003.10.23 23:52:00 - [57] I dont see why loot items cant be placed on the market, like standard items. I also think I remember somewhere in the FAQ/BOX/PROMISE that PCs could research items or blueprints to improve on them. It would be nice to have unqiue items. For instance if Corp X researched and improved on say, The Blackbird, then I would know that Corp X has the best Blackbird for what I want and buy that instead of all people producing the SAME item. Thats stupid, the NPC market can make the same item. Unfortunitely CCP didnt plan the release very well. Im sure that they had no intention of people having 6 BS in their hangers this soon. Ships shouldnt be irreplaceable, but they shouldnt be cannon fodder either. ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.24 00:28:00 - [58] Quote: I dont see why loot items cant be placed on the market, like standard items. I also think I remember somewhere in the FAQ/BOX/PROMISE that PCs could research items or blueprints to improve on them. It would be nice to have unqiue items. For instance if Corp X researched and improved on say, The Blackbird, then I would know that Corp X has the best Blackbird for what I want and buy that instead of all people producing the SAME item. Thats stupid, the NPC market can make the same item. Unfortunitely CCP didnt plan the release very well. Im sure that they had no intention of people having 6 BS in their hangers this soon. Ships shouldnt be irreplaceable, but they shouldnt be cannon fodder either. Well apparently pirate loot was supposed to be sold via the blackmarket, which is MIA with no ETA. Pirate loot was also supposed to carry the contraband tag, to give people an incentive to use manufactured goods. I've yet to see a developer estimate anywhere close to the actual level progression of real players. Players will constantly outthink the designers, making the allegedly complicated simple. The best they can do is show real progress in the attempt to catch up to the players. Many of those that hit the 'top rung of the ladder' will stick around if the developer shows reasonable progression toward catching up with them. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Flaloch	Posted - 2003.10.24 00:41:00 - [59] I normally just stay away from topics such as this, but I'll definately add my name to the growing list of unhappy mmorpg veterans. Heff summed it up nicely. Next stop, Darkfall. Stability is hard to find these days. "The people expected it of me and I had got to do it; I could feel their two thousand wills pressing me forward, irresistibly. " - Orwell
Van Cleef	Posted - 2003.10.25 04:19:00 - [60] black market?? the only black market in eve is ebay ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM
Pirindolo	Posted - 2003.10.25 08:19:00 - [61] I am really bored and disappointed with what happened (or better said, with what didn't happen) during the last 3 months of this game. I can say that intertia is the only reason because I keep playing EVE, while I wait until some new mmorpg are released.
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.25 09:16:00 - [62] Quote: There is a very clear and simple point regardless of CCP's excuses and regardless of all other arguments. The point is the following: The features enumerated on the box and in the manual are not in the game. I paid for those features. Where are they? I could not care less if the CCP dev team has to work 18 hour days to implement them or if the company is running a loss doing this. I want what was promised, period! By not delivering the promised product, CCP is breaching an implicit contract with the customer. I suggest CCP's management take care of this and make sure the Dev team expands and gets to work. All in all a very good point - does anyone out there who is a solicitor or someway involved in law know what the possible legal implications of this could be? ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Aristarchus	Posted - 2003.10.25 09:42:00 - [63] CCP, pls don't let this topic go unanswered! We are waiting for a valid reply. At least, for things that have been promised in CSMs. What are you planning to do about the issues raised in this thread and EXACTLY when?
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.25 10:24:00 - [64] OMG. You actually expect a reply? _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Pirindolo	Posted - 2003.10.25 10:47:00 - [65] they won't even read this.
lynxlynx	Posted - 2003.10.25 10:58:00 - [66] very good thread!!! its a pity that ccp does not care.
Ulendar	Posted - 2003.10.25 11:19:00 - [67] Edited by: Ulendar on 25/10/2003 11:50:26 I have seen this happen many times before. And not just in gamedevelopment either. In all things we humans do. You get an idea, then you start realising your idea. While your working on it you get to brainstorming and get tons and tons of new ideas so you begin working towards them. These new ideas require you to change your initial idea somewhat. you have to keep in mind the future of your ideas in your initial desighn. While your doing all this and getting more and more ideas one very true fact remains wich you may dismiss as unimportant or just a part of the facts...but the rest of the world only sees what you have done sofar and not the final idea in your head... Lets use a building to make myself a little more clear. Someone gets an idea. I'm gonna build a house! Then they are laying foundations, then they think...wth...IM GONNA BUILD A SKYSCRAPER! So you start laying a bigger foundation, tearing down a few walls you built already and start making a large metal construction wich will be the first floor of your skyscraper. Then suddenly you get another idea and think...DUDE im gonna build the TALEST building on earth... So you start laying more foundation, placing a more solid metal construction, you tear down your previous contruction in favor of the new plan.. Then while you building up to the second floor you get YET ANOTHER IDEA...I'm gonna build the largest, most technological advanced building on earth! So you modify you 1st floor again and chop away parts of the foundation to implement special heated floor and start putting in special equipemnt wich will in the fiture support selfcleaning kitchens and self regulating climat control and special high powered household equipment... Now your building something unpresedented...you and your friends. This will become a milestone in the art of construction blahblah ect..; Now while your doing all this you inviting your guests into a metal construction wich doesnt have even something as simple as a couch to sit on and its cold and drafty... What you have now basically done is build a very very poor house wich comes short of all present day standards. In the meantime you have spent twice as much time and twice as much money as other people have to build a good, warm and modern house. And all you have is a big, ugly, cold and metal construction with not even the slightest comforts... Sure, one day youl have a milestone in human technology but untill then you just have an uninhabitable metal construction with no comfort whatsoever....Do you reall expect people to keep coming to dinner in your metal construction thingy untill such time its completely finished??! Now..lets look at what youve done and why people dont believe in you anymore... Well you started a small project with a couple friends. It was looking very good. But then you suddenly got a bigger idea..more ambitious. You talked your friends into it and you started doing it. Then you expanded your project further, your friends jumped on board and as time passed to somewhere along the line decided on building an unpresedented HUGE project....just you and your friends wich initiall joined to build a simple commen house. Now if you would stop dreaming for 1 second you would see that A) you have no funding to build this huge technologically advanced skyscraper in any acceptable time margin, B) you have way way to little friends helping out to compleet your project in any acceptable frame of time. While all this is hapening some other construction firm bought the lot next to you. They are building a 80 floor skyscraper. Standard tech level stuff. They arrive with a 50 head team and with corporate sponsorship. They compleet the scraper in about 2 motnhs... People are praising your neighbour and looking at you asif you are some loser who cant get anything right... you ask yourself WHY?! All he built is just another skyscraper, nothing special, no special accomplishment, no nothing. ME!! im building the tallest skyscraper EVER and its going to be so technologically advanced that it twarts all imagination...why do people think more highly of my neighbour who just did what other people have already done! Well here comes the answer... Your neighbour has an 80floro scraper ready for residents...fully finished with everything on it... You have 3 floors huge floors of superhightech scraper with barely an interior wall and no decorating, no furniture..no nothing... THIS is what people see, people see whta is there and not what you say will be there one day. Your the loser and your neighbour is the winner eventhough his idea was a very simple one while your idea was great and glorious... They had enough people to compleet a simple project, they had enough money to compleet a simple project... You had enough people and money to build a simple house but somewhere along the li Originally by: cashman It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this. It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
Troezar	Posted - 2003.10.25 11:44:00 - [68] CCP's lack of response means people will leave out of frustration as there doesn't appear to be any other way to get any action other than to reduce their income. I for one hope that this strategy will work and I'm still playing and waiting for something to happen................................................still waiting!
var'ulfur	Posted - 2003.10.25 12:40:00 - [69] my my you all do whine in such a nice way. this forum is full of this same tierd kind of post but when you sign into the game and see numbers over 5k you have to ask dose anyone care? you all think making and runing massive online gams is as easy as making toast. do you have any idea how many lines of code are in this game? Other than that its not like 13.00 bucks a month will break you. you get bored just train skills for a few weeks. i waste more money a week or coffe than i do this game in a month. Content takes time when i got the game after playing beta i knew it would be a year till i would see any good content. i am not in a corp so things are harder. and like in all things you guys will leave the game and give up your avatar you worked months on, and two weeks later they dump all the things you have been wating for in the game. And i have to say it if you go can i have your stuff???
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.25 13:08:00 - [70] Edited by: Barnett on 25/10/2003 13:18:14 LOL we have been waiting for months Var'ulfur, I don't think that another two weeks is going to make THAT much difference!!! The basic summary of the last four pages of debate is as follows: The back of the box and advertising / ccp press releases promised us contetnt that is not in the game nor does it seem that it will be implemented any time soon. I wonder if there is any legal implications in any of this? Bugs and other misc problems that have been in the game since beta / early release are still to be remedied. The so called storyline is a complete joke. The so called market is a complete joke with most trade routes being filled within 2 hrs of downtime. Linking to the above we have no tools to devleop our own content or drive our own storyline. Until we can build stations and properly lay claim to areas of space / planets regional alliences in reality mean very little other than mining rights. CCP have promised new content "soon" on many occasions but it is yet to materilaise. Now we are being told that player run stations are "atleast six months away" (use the CCP time frame calculator to work out this will eventually end up at 18 months). Sadly I think Eve is a great concept that will eventually die a long premature death due to the complete lack of skill / forsight on the part of CCP. It really does show that CCP are totally new to this type of thing and perhaps they need to spend money recruiting people with experience. But there again have SSI not reduced their funding? Ahhhh....the vicious circle goes on. ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Lliad	Posted - 2003.10.25 13:08:00 - [71] Why waste money traning skills when you can just go play another mmorpg and have fun?
Grimmacker	Posted - 2003.10.25 13:40:00 - [72] PAY REAL MONEY TO TRAIN SKILLS!!!!LOL Thats the stupidest thing I have heard in a long while, anyway keep this post alive.
Pirindolo	Posted - 2003.10.25 16:48:00 - [73] If anyone wants to keep a mmorpg alive, it is absolutely necessary to add content from time to time. CCP has stopped releasing patches, because of the crappy result of the last... of all the patches. There are 4 ways to do it: 1) Often with good content: Never seen in EVE 2) Often with crappy content: this was how CCP released patches in the past: once or twice per month, but with a lot of bugs, and not working features, adding silly contents and forgetting the important ones. 3) rarely with good content: Never seen in EVE. If you did read las CSM chat, it seems that CCP plans to take this path now. But I'm affraid, based on what happened in the last 6 months, that their good intentions will become: 4) rarely with crappy content. How many devs have you seen around in the last 2 months besides TomB, Zrakor and T0rfifrans?
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.10.25 17:25:00 - [74] Straight to the point, Barnett. The Devs seem atm only to care about their pet projects, which will perhaps be finished in 6 months. Too bad the number of players will have shruken to 10% then. Fun fun fun... What saves EVE is actually only one thing - there is no similar MMORPG out there (note that I said "similar", not "better"). If there would be something remotely new, innovative there - WoW for example - EVE will loose active players by the hundreds if not thousands. free speech not allowed here
var'ulfur	Posted - 2003.10.25 18:28:00 - [75] lol what you going to play swg that have turn based combate please. and it seems few of you guys every quit just come here and whine like my grandkids. Stavr0s said he left but i seen him on a alt avatar name he had in beta. And i dont take time off from the game i love it but like all online games i play thier are people that just like to whine and stomp thier feet. The game has been live 6 months like i said in a year i will see. any online game i played took a year before it real got good. And a few took 4 months till you could evenplay them we all know what game that was And one last point if paying 13 or 20 bucks a month for something and you worrie about or leaves you short on cash id say your mom sould give you more money eack week for doing your house work lol. so by all means go on whining and stomping your feet it always give me a laugh... wolf
Kunming	Posted - 2003.10.25 18:41:00 - [76] Quote: a wise Minmatar once said: "we are paying for beta right now, the game is not finished, a year or 18 months after release will be much much more like how the game was intended, at this time CCP will launch huge advertising campaigns and players will flood to the game, but for now CCP wants to keep it small, they want to work out the bugs, and the 30,000 that are paying great they get some income flowing in, they expect to lose some people the first year. Now as a player, you have to understand this, you treat the game like this is practice before the real release happens and your beta advantage is that your skill points and blueprints earned in that first year is going to give you a tremendous advantage." I live and during bad times, direct my corp by these words. This isn't the final game, we are still many many moons away, but every day I play and every isk earned is one step ahead of the game i'm going to be when 10 to 20,000 people are on the server at the same time. It will come, believe me this game has the potential, just right now isn't that time. Those who stick around great lets have fun with the way the game isn't. THose who leave, have fun and i bet a good percentage of you will be back in a year and say damn i wish i was training over this year lost. Now thats whats happening actually... CCP had orders from their financors and had to sacrifice a large protion of their players. If u dont believe me think for a second WHY CCP never answers, or does write in the "FORUM"... Well I also had to add something, that would be a great idea or is lacking in the game: -The NPC factions like Serpentis or The Soceity have an agenda and some goals but u never see them flying around doing something... It should be added that u see crusades from the "Sisters Of Eve" and things like that and u should be able to join them. This way for u who dont have a goal yet u should find one or defende ur self agains some bigger enemy, etc... Intercepting since BETA
var'ulfur	Posted - 2003.10.25 18:53:00 - [77] (kunming) i bow to you from the qoute and the way you think. you try to help not just whine may all you dealing make you money and you will see all you enemies floating biomass in space. wolf
Pirindolo	Posted - 2003.10.26 08:16:00 - [78]
Van Cleef	Posted - 2003.10.28 06:30:00 - [79] Through complaints, foot stomping and temper tantrums as you put it will come change. If everyone sits around waiting for something better but do not communicate what they want, nothing will happen. I would rather speak my mind than sit in angst. Complaining does not make you a whiner, nor does mentioning good points of game make you a fanboy. there are extremes to everything. ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM
Muacha	Posted - 2003.10.28 07:29:00 - [80] Quote: lol what you going to play swg that have turn based combate SWG is not turn based combat and it has it's own problems. However, it seems more to my liking and that's why I've stopped playing EVE. Everyone likes different things from games but it's interesting....after 2 months away, not much has changed. I kept hoping it would but sadly....it's all the same. Canceling soon. I hope all you that are still having fun continue to enjoy this game. It's just not for me. And I'm really bummed about that cuz I had such high hopes for it. I joined right at the retail launch and it completely consumed any free time I had for 2 solid months. Sadly since I backed off playing, I found my desire to care about the game completely evaporated. Now I'm just marking time till my sub runs out. Later

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