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Where now for Eve, CCP and the players?

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Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:25:00 - [1] Well I have now reached the point where I have been playing Eve for nearly six months. I have my BS and enough ISK to consider my in game character comfortable. Sadly it seems as though there is little left for me to do apart from roam around low sec Empire space or 0.0 looking of miners / N.P.C. hunters to pod or extort. This in itself can be a difficult practice and you often spend hours warping round looking for targets only for them to warp as soon as they see you (which is, in reality, the sensible option!). So I now ask myself where I go from here - if you are reading this post in a positive and warm mood about Eve herein lies a warning; it is not my most positive contribution to this forum ever although I believe it contains key issues that CCP has to address if the game is to truly prosper. Since I joined there has been new little new content although despite this some good additions have been made to the game. Regardless of the above we are still yet to see anything come of the joint Caldari / Gallante research project and the whole Jovian thing has died a death. As for the way that Miner 2's were introduced into the game - well it was completely farcical and someone once described it as "finding the cure for AIDS and giving it to Microsoft". Player / Polaris run events have been few and far between. When they have emerged they have been poorly organised often leading to hundreds of ships inhabiting one area thus causing incredible lag and other server related issues. In short these have bordered on a waste of time and the Amarr vigil thing didn't offer anything that couldn't be read on this forum twenty minutes after it happened. Then there is the standing joke that is CCP customer service. Bugs that were present in beta / early release are still there and many long promised features are yet to materialise. Large amounts of people don't bother filling out bug report forms because they know that little will be done to address the issues and there has been some suggestion (although not confirmed) that certain people at CCP have been deleting these in an attempt to create the impression that all is going well to their bosses. What we need from CCP is communication. We have said it countless times before. The biggest disappointment of Eve so far has been CCP signal failure to reflect player optimism and re-package it into a vision that all users can relate to. CCP talk of expansion packs and add-one but if they can't even introduce many features that were promised from release do we think that we will ever see such a thing as a first person option in the future despite the fact the developers once said in a CSM that this was on the agenda? Whilst on the subject of CSM we are often promised new content / fixes "some time soon" but as has been shown in another thread CCP definition of "some time soon" can be bought into question. In truth few of us players know where the game is going. Eve is decidedly light on any true content and it is a shame that regardless of how advanced your character is the best way to generate ISK is to sit in front of an asteroid for hours on end dragging ore from cargo hold to container. The market system is still a joke with most trade routes being filled within two hours of downtime. This is despite calls for NPC buy orders to be "randomised" so that people who cannot play straight after downtime have an equal chance of profitable trading. CCP once spoke of making trade goods an item required for ship production thus creating player generated demand but personally I think it will be a long time before this ever happens (if ever). Baby 'roid issue? Don't even get me started . As for player numbers these seem to have levelled out after a slow decline since early summer. Many people have quit the game after feeling that their character was "saturated" and that they had nothing more to achieve. Apparently Eve is about to be launched in Asia and whilst this can only be good any new players will still eventually find fault with many of the issues that we are all experiencing. Whatever the plan we need CCP to explain it us, otherwise the vacuum in communication is inevitably filled with hearsay and assumption, and the only way to hear the truth is to try and make head or tail of some CSM chat log. ItÆs easier making sense of the Hutton Inquiry. I make no apologies for the feelings expressed above but I am sorry if they cast a dark mood. Some of you might be fully in tune with me many more may not. I just hope my concerns over the future of the game are unfounded and, if not, that they are addressed and put right before we all look to go and play something else as many already have done. Fire engine on standby for flaming. ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Seer	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:40:00 - [2] No need for flames - you are putting all the valid points in one well mannered post as many have done before you. Hope it helped you vent your anger/frustration a little bit - cos it certainly wont help in getting any kind of response :( ---------------------------------------------------
Barnett	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:44:00 - [3] Oh well - nice to know someone agrees with me! ------------------------------------ For participating in the podding of GM Aeryn your security rating has been adjusted by -0.0020.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:45:00 - [4] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 22/10/2003 15:46:38 Should i now say something like 'all is going to change once T2 and (destructible) mobile refineries and player stations come in' ? I will then: All is going to change when T2 and (destructible) mobile refineries and player stations come in. Keep on going for a few months yet, you could always cut down on your game time in exchange for something else.. Eur 12,50 aint that much _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:47:00 - [5] Well done - that's a pretty fair summary of Eve as it is right now. I don't think anyone (if they're being honest with themselves) could disagree with any of it.
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:52:00 - [6] Very well writen - especially the minor II point.. content updates, although not advertised, seems to be every month or two, which is not really acceptable once players reach a certain skill and financial level. There is scope for a lot of fun, just needs to integrate quicker and cleaner into tranquility. It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Van Cleef	Posted - 2003.10.22 15:55:00 - [7] The market is effectively worthless. Attempting to make money through hauling is currently a waste of time. The time put into such adventures isnt worth the end payout. PC demand for things like "datasheets" and "Holoreels" is never going to drive the prices up. Most of the things gotten from loot cant even be sold on the market (which is ridiculous). Certain stations should be producing items the correspond to the station, and they should have a need for items that make up whatever they create. Every station except foodstuff planets should need things like water and grain, but looking at the sell list for a REGION (!!) you may only find one or two items wanted (besides the morons with the I'll buy it for a dollar!) Outer regions should have a HUGE need for stuff because they are removed from normal traffic. A new market would go along way to helping open up new possiblities for so many players (including pirates) The only thing that does work in the game is mining. Roid licking for hours will net you some money, but so many are doing it that they have sucked the market dry. PC combat is difficult unless you camp, fighting NPCs isnt all that challenging after a certain point. Do not get me wrong when I say this is a good game. Its just that steps could be taken that would make it better, and have more longevity for players. ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM
Avon	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:04:00 - [8] Dear CCP, Thank you for creating a huge player driven gaming enviroment, it is really an amazing feat of programing. However, I have no imagination so would you be so kind as to hold my hand and show me how to have fun. I have aquired all the toys I want from the current release and I now need you to give me new things to aim for. I have no idea how to form my own goals, I need you to do that for me. The thought of player interaction, or even role playing is competely foreign to me, and anyway it isn't my job to create content. I have no interest in shaping the Eve universe and driving the storyline, I guess that is part of being one of the TV generation. Help me CCP, you are my only hope. Yours A Customer ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:10:00 - [9] Oh look - a newbie running a one man corp thinks he knows it all Nice try muppet, but when things like the market are so patently broken then "player-driven" anything can't compensate.
Marianna	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:38:00 - [10] Right on Avon!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:47:00 - [11] I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. All I know is that in the time spent playing Eve I would've completed around 15 PC games from scratch to the maximum of their ability and not had half the fun I'm currently having with Eve. Each to their own, I guess, but I'm gonna renew my subscription on both accounts when they run out in December/January 'cause I think we'll see an influx of new players and, as a result, new optimism. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.22 16:52:00 - [12] good post. no answers so far.
Ubiq	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:09:00 - [13] I agree. I barely play anymore, just log in to set training skills. For people saying you need to roleplay more, that;s bull. I have played text based muds we more things to do than eve.
Myrmex	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:25:00 - [14] One thing i dislike from the beginning . What they tell us in patch is not exactly what is given out ... They say some thing is now implemented whilst it isnt , say they fixed something while it isnt ... And for god sake's we told you THOUSAND time to do small patch but they keep doing 1 month patch that are going to crash ONCE more for a full day ...
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:28:00 - [15] Quote: One thing i dislike from the beginning . What they tell us in patch is not exactly what is given out ... They say some thing is now implemented whilst it isnt , say they fixed something while it isnt ... And for god sake's we told you THOUSAND time to do small patch but they keep doing 1 month patch that are going to crash ONCE more for a full day ... worth repeating. so i did.
Torik	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:29:00 - [16] The way I see it a new set of player content tools needs to be added: area control tools. By this I mean things that let a corp effectively control a sector or a group of sectors. These would include but not be limited to player starbases and player sentry guns. This would allow a corp to control a sector without always needing a strong player presence in it. An enterprising corp could go out into 'deep' 0.0 space and fortify a sector with sentry guns on all gates. They would then build a station or two to store and process the resources they gather from the sector and its neighbors. This would give the players a whole new set of goals and would turn PvP from simple highway robbery to actual fight for control of vital resources. Already alliances and inter-alliance wars are adding major content to the game and this would simply extend it down to the individual corp level.
Avon	Posted - 2003.10.22 17:41:00 - [17] Quote: Oh look - a newbie running a one man corp thinks he knows it all Nice try muppet, but when things like the market are so patently broken then "player-driven" anything can't compensate. That post misses the point by so far it is only just funny. The market doesn't need to work. Players can set up stores, other players can come along and buy and sell to them. All the things you complain about are the things which get in the way with player interaction. The market doesn't work correctly, I agree, and as it is part of the game it should be fixed ... but it isn't a requirement, you can still trade with people. I guess there are lots of gamers here and not many roleplayers. I don't mean you have to stay in character, or even roleplay every situation. If you have never played a RPG you are unlikely to find your own enjoyment in Eve. Infact, don't think of Eve as a game, just as a set of rules and tools - build your own experience using them. If you expect CCP to keep you entertained this is clearly not the type of game you should be playing. Stick to games with an explicit win/lose storyline. Oh, and if the insults were directed at me, congratulations, a good effort. Unfortunately for you though I am married, which means I get insulted by an expert everyday .. infact even my two kids (5 and 1) are probably slightly better at put-downs. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:02:00 - [18] Edited by: McWatt on 22/10/2003 18:03:20 avon you re cool. but eve was neither planned to be a roleplaying game, nor does it give you the tools to play it as one. advertising some crap every 5 min in trade channel is not what i see as roleplaying a trader
Beringe	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:04:00 - [19] Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. Hear, hear. I first wrote a lengthy post where I picked the original post apart (like a complete jerk...which is a part of the reason why I deleted it), but I decided that this simple sentence better articulated my sentiment than a rant. Eve is what it is. If anything, my enjoyment of the game is growing day by day. ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead." "No, it's none of your business."
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:32:00 - [20] Edited by: agrizla on 22/10/2003 18:33:38 Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. A couple of points Josh : 1) a lot of the people who are quitting are veterans of other MMOGs; 2) ISTR you saying this was your first MMOG, so don't be so quick to assume you know who is and isn't "cut out" for MMOGs eh? Oh and I'm sorry mate but I fail to see how an "influx of new players and, as a result, new optimism" is going to finally persuade the devs to fix the market exploits which have been there since day 1. NB - that's just an example you understand (I'm sure anyone who's been playing for 3 months or so could come up with a very long list of others). If you're happy with it then I'm glad for you, but please don't assume/imply that it is something amiss with players who quit. Most people I know that have quit were very sorry to leave but had got to the stage that they simply didn't believe what the devs said anymore. I'm not far off that point myself Edit for typo.
Singular	Posted - 2003.10.22 18:32:00 - [21] The real problem is we are hitting the "level-cap", meaning everyone is in battleships now, and has nothing to really save/play for. Who cares if tech 2 comes out. Everyone has so much money stockpiled, its silly. Whohooo 1 day of fun with my Whatever II I can buy. They need to make it a bit more challenging NPC wise, ie Battleship NPCs, better quests, etc.. Im Yo Huckleberreh
Hyundai	Posted - 2003.10.22 19:20:00 - [22] good post Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. heres a tennis ball go bounce it against that wall for a week then come back and tell me if your bored ! muppet " I wasnt aware of this..."
Qandor	Posted - 2003.10.22 19:34:00 - [23] Quote: I guess the ones who are leaving or are bored simply aren't cut out for MMPROG's. No, I guess the ones who are leaving can recognize a quality MMORPG and have grown tired of waiting for EVE to become one.
Keefus	Posted - 2003.10.22 19:46:00 - [24] I have to agree with most of what has been sed here, but tbh there no point in complaining. In essence the game is always been developed, to me its still Beta, but its come quite far since i've been playing (apart from the dia ~Last patch that REALLY screwed it all up!) I Really think we need to see some jove and other storelines come into play soon! and a Player stations are REALLY needed :D All toghter EVE is a strong Game and the buggs a bareable (well most are), i think there needs to be more Player imput.. ------------------------------------------------ mmmmm Carrot juice!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:43:00 - [25] Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:52:00 - [26] Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I think to understand Joshua's perspective you need the full story. Here's something one of his corp mates posted in another thread: Quote: a wise Minmatar once said: "we are paying for beta right now, the game is not finished, a year or 18 months after release will be much much more like how the game was intended, at this time CCP will launch huge advertising campaigns and players will flood to the game, but for now CCP wants to keep it small, they want to work out the bugs, and the 30,000 that are paying great they get some income flowing in, they expect to lose some people the first year. Now as a player, you have to understand this, you treat the game like this is practice before the real release happens and your beta advantage is that your skill points and blueprints earned in that first year is going to give you a tremendous advantage." I live and during bad times, direct my corp by these words. This isn't the final game, we are still many many moons away, but every day I play and every isk earned is one step ahead of the game i'm going to be when 10 to 20,000 people are on the server at the same time. It will come, believe me this game has the potential, just right now isn't that time. Those who stick around great lets have fun with the way the game isn't. THose who leave, have fun and i bet a good percentage of you will be back in a year and say damn i wish i was training over this year lost. The emphasis is added on my part. The naivette is the author's own. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:53:00 - [27] Quote: The real problem is we are hitting the "level-cap", meaning everyone is in battleships now, and has nothing to really save/play for. Who cares if tech 2 comes out. Everyone has so much money stockpiled, its silly. Whohooo 1 day of fun with my Whatever II I can buy. They need to make it a bit more challenging NPC wise, ie Battleship NPCs, better quests, etc.. Gathering as much isk as possible was never the real goal for me so I think I'll miss out on a lot in comparison to players who have a personal wealth of billions. Personally, from my own humble point of view, the people who have played Eve to get as much as possible as soon as possible are the ones who are leaving/getting bored. Those who are playing for fun are stickin' around. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 20:56:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I think to understand Joshua's perspective you need the full story. Here's something one of his corp mates posted in another thread: Quote: a wise Minmatar once said: "we are paying for beta right now, the game is not finished, a year or 18 months after release will be much much more like how the game was intended, at this time CCP will launch huge advertising campaigns and players will flood to the game, but for now CCP wants to keep it small, they want to work out the bugs, and the 30,000 that are paying great they get some income flowing in, they expect to lose some people the first year. Now as a player, you have to understand this, you treat the game like this is practice before the real release happens and your beta advantage is that your skill points and blueprints earned in that first year is going to give you a tremendous advantage." I live and during bad times, direct my corp by these words. This isn't the final game, we are still many many moons away, but every day I play and every isk earned is one step ahead of the game i'm going to be when 10 to 20,000 people are on the server at the same time. It will come, believe me this game has the potential, just right now isn't that time. Those who stick around great lets have fun with the way the game isn't. THose who leave, have fun and i bet a good percentage of you will be back in a year and say damn i wish i was training over this year lost. The emphasis is added on my part. The naivette is the author's own. He's the CEO and I totally agree. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
agrizla	Posted - 2003.10.22 21:35:00 - [29] Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I'm collecting battleships until my subs run out. Might seem trivial to those of you in megacorps but it's a reasonable challenge for a freelancer When that's close (and I am not renewing again this time) I am going to hunt down the n00biest of n00bs and dump them all on him After that I'll wander off and do/play something else.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.22 21:42:00 - [30] Quote: Quote: Hyundai, agrizla, Qandor, so why are you guys here if you don't have any optimism? I'm collecting battleships until my subs run out. Might seem trivial to those of you in megacorps but it's a reasonable challenge for a freelancer When that's close (and I am not renewing again this time) I am going to hunt down the n00biest of n00bs and dump them all on him After that I'll wander off and do/play something else. Now that's a way to leave Eve. I was planning on doing the same thing myself eventually. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

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