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Car Wars adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:18:00 - [31] Edited by: Car Wars on 24/09/2006 00:19:02 Well it looks like the hyperion is gonna be the better blasterboat. Why? Well one of the best setups for a blasterthron is gank, neutron, damage mods, plates to tank the damage, 1 large rep. Just kill the nme faster then they kill you. Hyperion will be faster, thus be in range faster. Will be more agile, thus stop faster giving you good shots (basiclly the whole trouble with using a mwd, even the Megathrons tracking bonus doesnot help there). It will have bigger cap, leaving you tanking and shooting longer. And you survive longer because of the higher hitpoints. Should beat a mega one on one. Big trouble with the Tier 3 gallente Bs is: its a Blasterboat only, no room for an other role basiclly. I will be very predicable. A megathon sitting on a gate can be fitted with rails or blastes there is room for surprise there, tier 3 gallente -> no surprise at all, people will always run i think.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Car Wars Big trouble with the Tier 3 gallente Bs is: its a Blasterboat only, no room for an other role basiclly. I will be very predicable. A megathon sitting on a gate can be fitted with rails or blastes there is room for surprise there, tier 3 gallente -> no surprise at all, people will always run i think. I have no complaints, this is exactly the same as a Raven... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Unholy Preacher Trade Consortium Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:56:00 - [33] i actually really wished that the hyperion would be an EW boat along the same lines of sensor dampening cruiser (cant remember the name for the life of me) But yeah one concern tho is that, if you are going to be able to get in closer and orbit faster in the hyperion battleship, dont u need good tracking for it to work ? and wouldnt the megathron yet again be better in that respect ? either way im not losing any sleep over the hyperion stats yet, who knows maybe they will make it a missile boat by the time of launch
Sovereign533 Caldari 133rd Ghost Wing	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom This isnt a trolling thread, this is supposed to be a legitimate discussion thread... kthxbye probaly said by someone... but... it's not out yet, probaly not final yet... so wait... so no detailles can be given about the ships... so there is nothing to discuss... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... i'm 1337 now...
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.24 01:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Unholy Preacher i actually really wished that the hyperion would be an EW boat along the same lines of sensor dampening cruiser (cant remember the name for the life of me) The Celestis. It's a highly underrated ship and I keep meaning to take one out for a spin some time. I've been on the receiving end.
Sir Bart	Posted - 2006.09.24 01:31:00 - [36] Well, I want ECM to be gimped, so how about if the hyperion has +25% sensor strength to go with it's +5% damage? That would allow it to be a blasterthron, without a blasterthron's huge weakness. Then since the megathron is gonna be long range, change it's tracking bonus to be optimal range. I like the idea of the nano-typhoon (I had this idea a long time ago but it was a nano dominix, drones can hit while I orbit, but I've never used missiles since I'm gallente or I"m sure I woulda used the typhoon) and hoped the hyperion could use speed for defence... the only way this can work though is if it has incredible tracking... or some launcher hardpoints (yuck). Have only one bonus on the ship... +20 % tracking. And I'll find a way to make it work. :P Also... someone said that they could get 1400 dps outta the hyperion, I thought this sounded ridiculous so I ran some numbers trying to disprove that but... With a megathron with neutron II's, void ammo, and 4 magnetic feild stabs you get 154 dps per gun and then 5 X t2 berserkers do another 200 dps. We know a hyperion can't use the same level of drones so say it gets 160 for drone damage, and since the damage bonus is the same (effectively worse because the tracking bonus gives more of a damage boost than an 8th gun does but we'll say that tracking doesn't matter) we can guess the hyperion would max out with: 8 X 154 + 160 = 1392. Nearly 1400 dps. In case you're wondering a megathron can do 1278. That's with perfect skills (blaster specialization lvl 5 since I'm sure we all have that by now) P.S. Don't try it, you'll get jammed and die. :P
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.24 04:30:00 - [37] I suggested a big celestis a while ago: 5/8/6 with 5 launcher slots, a +10% damp bonus and a +5% ROF bonus to launchers. With a 175m3 drone bay and a 700m3 cargo hold. Would work great. Because I said so...
tarin adur	Posted - 2006.09.24 05:02:00 - [38] how can you posssibly have a discussion about something that has yet to be released? all the info you have is either mere speculations or rumors that have been spread around. at this point the dev's could change everything if they felt they made it wrong. fixes nerdy glasses
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 06:21:00 - [39] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Err.. Dominix is not a pwnmobile. Heavy nos are overpowered against small stuff and ECM is in general, stupid. Try flying a Dominix without these two things, and you'll see its nowhere close to amazing. Both of which are going to be changed, all part of the FOTM wave. And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. Yeah, without ecm and nos, the Dominix wouldnt be so good. And the Raven wouldnt be so good without t2 torpedoes. The Mega wouldnt be so good without t2 null having the range it has. But all these things are currently in game, and are making those ships alot better than the others imo. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.24 06:33:00 - [40] Well you'd be happy to know that I don't like any of those things, but if you think Null has made the Megathron better.. you're probably of the same crowd that thinks you can't have a blaster ship without a silly mwd bonus. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 06:35:00 - [41] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/09/2006 06:35:52 Originally by: DigitalCommunist you're probably of the same crowd that thinks you can't have a blaster ship without a silly mwd bonus. Of course you can, specially since the MWD bonus seems useless on the ship. Ive read some threads about it, and it doesnt seem like a good bonus at all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dred 'Morte Sabre Inc Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.09.24 08:44:00 - [42] The 5% cap recharge bonus of the Vengeance is like 4 times better than the thorax mwd bonus in terms of final cap recharge IIRC. MWD Bonus = Stupid, near useless bonus. What is 25% or even 50% less MWD cap penalty compared to a 25% cap recharge bonus that completly makes up for the MWD penalty? How can an amarr ship have a better bonus for mwd users than gallente ships do? Silly PS: Sorry if this is kinda off topic. Signature made by Mr Floppykickners
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Sir Bart Well, I want ECM to be gimped, so how about if the hyperion has +25% sensor strength to go with it's +5% damage? That would allow it to be a blasterthron, without a blasterthron's huge weakness. Then since the megathron is gonna be long range, change it's tracking bonus to be optimal range. Woah hold on there, this isn't supposed to be replacing the Megathron, none of the Tier 3's are replacing their Tier 2 counterparts, so it needs to be different, the best way of going about that is a differing slot configuration to the Dominix and Megathron (and faction variants of course). Originally by: Sir Bart Also... someone said that they could get 1400 dps outta the hyperion, I thought this sounded ridiculous so I ran some numbers trying to disprove that but... With a megathron with neutron II's, void ammo, and 4 magnetic feild stabs you get 154 dps per gun and then 5 X t2 berserkers do another 200 dps. We know a hyperion can't use the same level of drones so say it gets 160 for drone damage, and since the damage bonus is the same (effectively worse because the tracking bonus gives more of a damage boost than an 8th gun does but we'll say that tracking doesn't matter) we can guess the hyperion would max out with: 8 X 154 + 160 = 1392. Nearly 1400 dps. In case you're wondering a megathron can do 1278. That's with perfect skills (blaster specialization lvl 5 since I'm sure we all have that by now) P.S. Don't try it, you'll get jammed and die. :P If you compare like for like drones, i.e put Ogre II's on the Megathron, you add another 116 Dps on top of that. Drone damage of 158 dps is maximum Hammerhead II damage output, so infact both ships would be doing around the same damage (actually a ~ 4dps advantage to the Megathron). Add in a 8/6/6 slot configuration and the Hyperion won't be beating the Megathron at its own game, but will have greater flexibility. As I said, these aren't supposed to replace the Tier 2 ships, and reading the blog Tux has, thankfully, decided not to try and pigeon-hole the Megathron into having only a long range role... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/09/2006 06:34:07 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Err.. Dominix is not a pwnmobile. Heavy nos are overpowered against small stuff and ECM is in general, stupid. Try flying a Dominix without these two things, and you'll see its nowhere close to amazing. Both of which are going to be changed, all part of the FOTM wave. And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. Yeah, without ecm and nos, the Dominix wouldnt be so good. And the Raven wouldnt be so good without t2 torpedoes. The Mega wouldnt be so good without t2 null having the range it has. But all these things are currently in game, and are making those ships alot better than the others imo. I really hate the argument that within 20k, the mega is supposed to win vs all. What are the rest of us doing here then? Its poor game balance. I wouldnt complain if it was below 10k, because then you could try to keep it at range and fight it. Currently, if you do that, he warps off... :/ And yes, the Raven might beat it. Its a overpowered ship with t2 torps. In terms of Megathron vs. Raven the only saving grace is Void L, the addition of that ammunition is the only change to have occured that gives a Megathron a chance against a tanked siege launcher Raven with BCU's in the low slots. Even then, it's still exceptionally close (not withstanding crystal implants which screw the balance up completely) - too close infact, when considering one ship has an 80km range the other a 3.75km range... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:34:00 - [45] Leave raven alone:P I'm training sensor linking now But tbh, ecm vampadomi is just retarded, i can fly one pretty maxed skills for it, but i usually stick 3-4 backups on so i can kill all jammafgts out there. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:43:00 - [46] Originally by: Gabriel Karade In terms of Megathron vs. Raven the only saving grace is Void L, the addition of that ammunition is the only change to have occured that gives a Megathron a chance against a tanked siege launcher Raven with BCU's in the low slots. Even then, it's still exceptionally close (not withstanding crystal implants which screw the balance up completely) - too close infact, when considering one ship has an 80km range the other a 3.75km range... Doesnt it say something about game balance, when the megathron with frigging void have a problem killing the Raven? I mean, what about all the other battleships? Is this game really supposed to be about caldari vs gallente? It makes me sad to see minmatar and amarr being so specialized that they are useless outside fleets. :/ --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:59:00 - [47] This thread sucks. All whine and no stats. Give us up to date stats or shut the ** up (no, that's not forum filter, it's just four stars). Additionally, I'd personally not comment on the MWD/AB mass bonus before testing it. There is no such comparable bonus in game, and it might turn out that the Hyperion will be 40% faster with MWD on as well as being able to actually have a turn radius of less than 30km. As for the drone bay... that's what you get when you try to cram two all-to-similar ships into the same category. It's to make room for the Megathron. Where's the Intaki ships, by the way? Intaki are the only** ones getting a bonus to electronic warfare natively. Guess we'll have to wait for the battleship overhaul (compare: cruiser/frigate overhaul) in 2008. - Three years old
Magnus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:04:00 - [48] The hyperion will probably be a good blaster boat, and should ofcourse beat the blastermega and autopest if it gets close. Thats not the problem. The problem is that a blaster boat is very limited. You cant really do that much with it. The Hyperion will only be good for a few specific PvP situations, while it will suck badly for most PvP and all PvE. Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE. What exacly do you mean by this? What can the minnie battleships do that the blasterboats cant? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE. What exacly do you mean by this? What can the minnie battleships do that the blasterboats cant? giant piles of scrapheap with lots and lots of rust on top? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE. What exacly do you mean by this? What can the minnie battleships do that the blasterboats cant? cap use on hybrids are very high. that is why u dont ever see a megathron with blasters/rails doing lvl3/4 missions rails are ok for belt ratting though
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.09.24 13:10:00 - [52] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 23/09/2006 20:13:50 Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:15:58 Im pretty ****ed off at the low PG, I was told it cant even fit 8 Ions and a decent tank, let alone 8 Neutrons... What are your comments on the Hyperion? I was told (well actually I figured this for myself) that I should wait until release before I start complaining on something that isn't final and can't be verified. But it's so much better to scream that the sky is falling before you walk outside. edit: I hear the Drake is getting a bonus to CPU and grid reduction of seige launchers, and will acutally be a 7-torp launcher battlecruiser with a 10% ROF bonus. It will also have 8 midslots and 30k shield base, with a 100sec regen. wow, that is surprisingly nerfed for a caldari ship Maybe not herpes, but I'll give ya goat!-Tirg
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 13:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/09/2006 09:45:31 Originally by: Gabriel Karade In terms of Megathron vs. Raven the only saving grace is Void L, the addition of that ammunition is the only change to have occured that gives a Megathron a chance against a tanked siege launcher Raven with BCU's in the low slots. Even then, it's still exceptionally close (not withstanding crystal implants which screw the balance up completely) - too close infact, when considering one ship has an 80km range the other a 3.75km range... Doesnt it say something about game balance, when the megathron with frigging void have a problem killing the Raven? I mean, what about all the other battleships? Is this game really supposed to be about caldari vs gallente? It makes me sad to see minmatar and amarr being so specialized that they are useless outside fleets. :/ Well personally I attribute that to the fact torpedos no longer do splash damage, if they did a Raven pilot would really have to consider "Am I really doing enough damage before that Megathron gets into contact?..." rather than 'sit at 80km - 0m', spamming torpedos without a care in the world ---------- - Office Linebacker -
El'hith	Posted - 2006.09.24 13:13:00 - [54] Personally i dreamed of the hyp been a uber version of the cele :( Sniping and damps :( guys its not gonna happen. I guess we really need another close range ship to go with our noss/ecm doms and blaster throns! So why not throw in a extra blaster boat to keep things err... balanced
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.24 14:45:00 - [55] A bit off topic, but: Torps no longer do splash damage because of a few minor disfunctionalities with splash damage: 1. CONCORDOKKEN - You just hit that abandoned shuttle. 2. Suicide - you just hit yourself. 3. Suidice Mk.II - Your ship died, and the enemy was really close, now watch as those five salvoes of torps that were chasing him hits him... and your pod. 4. Loot. What loot? Cans died. Celestis isn't a sniping ship, it's a medium range railboat. Were the Hyperion to be a sensor dampening ship (it'd need a 7.5% dampener bonus to be able to compete and overcome sensor boosters on battleships, by the way), it'd optimally be used in the 20 to 30 km range (Javelin 450mm or T1 ammo dual 250mm railguns). Dampeners do not function well outside 50km, and aplying range bonus to a 30km optimal weapon belonging to a short-range race is... - Three years old
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 16:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Ithildin A bit off topic, but: Torps no longer do splash damage because of a few minor disfunctionalities with splash damage: 1. CONCORDOKKEN - You just hit that abandoned shuttle. 2. Suicide - you just hit yourself. 3. Suidice Mk.II - Your ship died, and the enemy was really close, now watch as those five salvoes of torps that were chasing him hits him... and your pod. 4. Loot. What loot? Cans died. But you have to admit, points 2. and 3. would bury the Blaster boat vs. torpedo Raven argument for good... àeither the Raven does enough damage at range to destroy the Megathron, or enough so that it survives a few of its own torpedo's at close range, or it dies/suicides if the Megathron gets into combat sufficiently intact. Anyway IÆll stop hijacking this thread. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Lesferath	Posted - 2006.09.24 17:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Dred 'Morte The 5% cap recharge bonus of the Vengeance is like 4 times better than the thorax mwd bonus in terms of final cap recharge IIRC. MWD Bonus = Stupid, near useless bonus. What is 25% or even 50% less MWD cap penalty compared to a 25% cap recharge bonus that completly makes up for the MWD penalty? How can an amarr ship have a better bonus for mwd users than gallente ships do? Silly PS: Sorry if this is kinda off topic. This is not the way it works. The MWD cap penalty is 25% of max cap. A bonus of 5% per lvl will at lvl 5 fully compensate the penalty. A bonus of 10% (Vindicator) does even give an advantage when fitting a MWD (+25% max cap). However, this bonus is still pretty useless on a battleship, even on a Vindicator you'll need cap boosters to win a fight.
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:06:00 - [58] i think the nerfed PG is about rediculous, i think the devs need to realize that blasters and railguns take quite a bit of PG next to lasers, all gallente ships should get a bit more pg in my opinion, not only to fit guns but also to fit reppers at the same time like any other ship in the game.
Darpz Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:20:00 - [59] as long as it can fit something like this it will pwn 8xIon II MWD Web Scram 2xMultiSpecs and an Injector LAR II 2xEAN 3xDamage Mods that will be about 1000DPS or so and if it goes 2000 or so meters per sec with a t2 MWD which I think is about right it will be a very formidable BS High Damage High Spped Light no tank. Think of this ship as the vagabond for BS
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Lesferath Originally by: Dred 'Morte The 5% cap recharge bonus of the Vengeance is like 4 times better than the thorax mwd bonus in terms of final cap recharge IIRC. MWD Bonus = Stupid, near useless bonus. What is 25% or even 50% less MWD cap penalty compared to a 25% cap recharge bonus that completly makes up for the MWD penalty? How can an amarr ship have a better bonus for mwd users than gallente ships do? Silly PS: Sorry if this is kinda off topic. This is not the way it works. The MWD cap penalty is 25% of max cap. A bonus of 5% per lvl will at lvl 5 fully compensate the penalty. A bonus of 10% (Vindicator) does even give an advantage when fitting a MWD (+25% max cap). However, this bonus is still pretty useless on a battleship, even on a Vindicator you'll need cap boosters to win a fight. Actually, no. That's not at all how it works. The Thorax' capacitor penalty adds +25% capacitor to the capacitor capacity after an MWD has been added: 100% - 25% + 25% = 1000.751.25 = 93.75% Remember that percentage is multiplicative and not addative. The Vindicator with level 5 has 1000.751.5 = 112.5% capacitor - Three years old

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