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Wicked Wisdom Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:15:00 - [1] Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:15:58 Im pretty ****ed off at the low PG, I was told it cant even fit 8 Ions and a decent tank, let alone 8 Neutrons... What are your comments on the Hyperion?
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:18:00 - [2] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:15:58 Im pretty **ed off at the low PG, I was told it cant even fit 8 Ions and a decent tank, let alone 8 Neutrons... What are your comments on the Hyperion? I was told (well actually I figured this for myself) that I should wait until release before I start complaining on something that isn't final and can't be verified. Join Tharsis!** - Get Sexy Sigs
Wicked Wisdom Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:21:00 - [3] Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:20:55 Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:15:58 Im pretty ****ed off at the low PG, I was told it cant even fit 8 Ions and a decent tank, let alone 8 Neutrons... What are your comments on the Hyperion? I was told (well actually I figured this for myself) that I should wait until release before I start complaining on something that isn't final and can't be verified. Yes, but as of now, I was told by someone who has more information than us, that the Hyperion is being beaten CONSTANTLY in a Blasterboat 1v1 against the Megathron... Mainly because it cant fit a decent tank and still do damage...
Luceferous	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:22:00 - [4] http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4017/kung20fu20babygv6.gif
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Yes, but as of now, I was told by someone who has more information than us, that the Hyperion is being beaten CONSTANTLY in a Blasterboat 1v1 against the Megathron... Mainly because it cant fit a decent tank and still do damage... I was told by the voice in my head that everything will be alright. Calm down, wait, and no need to start trolling posts. And for that matter train Caldari too. Join Tharsis! - Get Sexy Sigs
Wicked Wisdom Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:23:00 - [6] This isnt a trolling thread, this is supposed to be a legitimate discussion thread... kthxbye
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Yes, but as of now, I was told by someone who has more information than us, that the Hyperion is being beaten CONSTANTLY in a Blasterboat 1v1 against the Megathron... Mainly because it cant fit a decent tank and still do damage... I'd hope if it's constantly getting beaten in closed testing that it would be modified so it doesnt get constantly beaten. I really do hope it has enough PG for a proper setup - neutron II's on a hyperion should do approx 1400dps with decent skills Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:44:00 - [8] Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Antodias Puppets on Steroids iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Faction fitted Mega v Faction fitted Hyper would be fun to see.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Jim McGregor And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. I wish. Try going up against an ECM rage torp Raven and seeing how long you last. -------- On vacation from ISSN
Antodias Puppets on Steroids iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.23 19:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Jim McGregor And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. I wish. Try going up against an ECM rage torp Raven and seeing how long you last. Well yeah, but going with anything against ECM is pretty much suicide.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:06:00 - [12] I just hope it has a lot more CPU than a MegaT. Fitting even 7 electrons can be painful when you fit a tank, MWD and injector... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:08:00 - [13] some numbers will be needed to talk about it, or its just pure guessing and not many people will argue about hyper being crap if they dont have any numbers but i do indeed believe the tier 3 gallente BS will have very little use if any at all i fully expect the megathron to beat the hyper at close range [i dont remember where but i read it will definitely have less drone space, maybe someone can confirm this] now i know its gona get its 8th turret slot but that one extra turret slot doesn't make up for the drones or come close, also take into account fitting one more gun means ur gona be spending more cap/pg/cpu! speed or acceleration at the BS level isnt paramount! if you can hit hard at 20km then u are fine and dont need to be moving fast to close the gap nor accelerate fast. the only times it will be important is when you land 40km and need to mwd to target! unless its got acceleration TIWCE that of a megathron or more then its pretty crappy so imo its not really designed well, acceleration and top speed is not very important with BS class blasters [thanks to null]. then lower drone bay giving overall lower dps. then one big killer, 6 low slots VS 7 low slots. that 7th slot is very important! oh and the 37.5% more tracking the mega has certainly isnt gona hurt! overall, i predict the megathron staying as the blaster boat and the hyper being the sniper!
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom ...I was told by someone who has more information than us... /me grabs the popcorn
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:12:00 - [15] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 23/09/2006 20:13:50 Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:15:58 Im pretty ****ed off at the low PG, I was told it cant even fit 8 Ions and a decent tank, let alone 8 Neutrons... What are your comments on the Hyperion? I was told (well actually I figured this for myself) that I should wait until release before I start complaining on something that isn't final and can't be verified. But it's so much better to scream that the sky is falling before you walk outside. edit: I hear the Drake is getting a bonus to CPU and grid reduction of seige launchers, and will acutally be a 7-torp launcher battlecruiser with a 10% ROF bonus. It will also have 8 midslots and 30k shield base, with a 100sec regen. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath For 50, you can have my goat:P- Tirg
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia But it's so much better to scream that the sky is falling before you walk outside. ...but what if the sky is falling outside? (Seriously... heavy rain, hail, tornado watch here, its real nice!) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom ...I was told by someone who has more information than us... oh an who's that? the voices in your head? because I can only think of half dozen people that have acess to kali atm. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.23 20:35:00 - [18] Edited by: xlop on 23/09/2006 20:36:13 i would say the hyper is designed wrong right now! It is a gallante boat, the 3rd tier. first mistake is the lower drone space. please give it the same space as the typhoon not less than the mega at worst equal to it! loose the MWD mass bonus, how important do you think 10% faster acceleration is gona be for a BS tux? it would need to have at lest 2times the top (speed/acceleration) as the megathron for that to be useful and i dont see the acceleration of a cruiser in a BS (rightly so) thus u will need to give it something like +80% to mega speed and +20% to mega acceleration for it to be a worthwhile bonous. and that is too much! here is a better idea for the second bonus, let us use AB with MWD bonus. ie give us something like +100% to AB speed increase per level or what ever [to turn a AB on a megathron into a MWD] that gives us less cap use, which is important but it also saves blasterthrons from being primary! [what do u mean you ask, well they are ships which excel in small gangs, when u uncloack with ur gang and hit mwd to get to ur first target, the people ur fighting lock all BS, but they tend to all lock u first because of ur 2k sig and thus u are primary! thus really good blaster pilots dont and cant use the mwd for 2-3 seconds to stop this effect!!!] hyper as a blaster boat should be/have: 8High [8T,1M] 4Mid 7/8Low [if 7 low slots, give 175M^3 drone bay] [if 8 lows give 75M^3] +5% dmg : +100% to AB acceleration 40km lock range [means u will need 3 t2 sensor booster if u want to snipe in it VS 2 on the megathron] [thus a megathron will have > 60% the tracking of a hyper] [but it will be extremely effected by damps but hopefully damps will be fixed with ecm] 175 scan res [fast lock but needed to make up for the extremely low lock range] 5k cap: 1100 sec recharge 4500 shields : 6000 armor : 7000k structure magnetometric sensor strength : 28 points signature radius 430 m enough PG and CPU to fit 8 ions t2. AB t2. named 20km. named wegb. heavy cap inj. 2dmg mods. 1large rep t2. 1 med rep t2, 2 energzed t2, dcu could also give it an inbuilt bonus to blasters that lowers their PG by and CPU by 25% [then lower the PG/CPU of the ship accordingly] to further stop its use as a rail platform. with AB speed bonous to turn it into a mwd at bs lvl 5. and +5% dmg
dec0 Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.09.23 21:09:00 - [19] Nah, that would be overpowered. Just because you guys want the best ship in eve doesnt mean theyre gonna give it you, its meant to be hard to squeeze out a good fitting from a ship, not make it one thats invulnerable. When it comes out there will be lots of moans but with skills and common sense it will be the pwnmobile the gallente want, the devs know what theyre doing a lot more than you guys. Thank god theyre giving the caldari something good to...
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation	Posted - 2006.09.23 21:22:00 - [20] First up: agreeing with those saying you cant really have a legitimate discussion about a ship that hasn't been legitately shown to us yet. Second: from my understanding, the megathrons ability to deal damage with blasters has never really been a failing, but rather its ability to close to the range it is most effective. Now given the last the devs officially said about the hyperion it was a ship designed to close in and use blasters .. well, in a megathron vs hyperion fight, I'm not the least bit surprised if the megathron is winning, since the hyperion is doing half its work for it. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.23 21:40:00 - [21] Edited by: xlop on 23/09/2006 21:43:50 Originally by: dec0 Nah, that would be overpowered. Just because you guys want the best ship in eve doesnt mean theyre gonna give it you, its meant to be hard to squeeze out a good fitting from a ship, not make it one thats invulnerable. When it comes out there will be lots of moans but with skills and common sense it will be the pwnmobile the gallente want, the devs know what theyre doing a lot more than you guys. Thank god theyre giving the caldari something good to... it should be the MOST powerful BS at ranges of 10km or less drop point. it should win ALL BS vs BS fights if it lands within 15km. it should be close with the tempest at 15-20km. it should loose to the tempest at 20-35km. it should loose to the geddon at 30-75km! and tbh there are players much more quilified than tux at balancing or making ships/mods. two people out of many would be digitalcommunist or Lukec. Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Second: from my understanding, the megathrons ability to deal damage with blasters has never really been a failing, but rather its ability to close to the range it is most effective. Now given the last the devs officially said about the hyperion it was a ship designed to close in and use blasters .. well, in a megathron vs hyperion fight, I'm not the least bit surprised if the megathron is winning, since the hyperion is doing half its work for it. your first understanding is correct, the damage from blasters is fine imo! ability to close the range is a problem for the thorax/deimos but it is not a problem for the BS class! now they cant make the tier 3 galante BS as agile as a cruiser, nor can they give it a higher top speed than mini BS, thus at most it will accelerate perhaps 30% more than the megathron. so within 10sec instead of doing 600mps you are doing 700mps. does that sound like a reason to give up 1low for 1mid and to have 37.5% less tracking AND less dps!! [its one less low slot means a much lower tank or 20% less dmg from guns!] =========================================== so overall atm, i dont see any smart person using a hyper for close range combat, it has 6 lows 5 mids 8turrets 75m^3 drone bay from latest stats given to us with a +5% dmg and + [something to make it accelerate faster if its got a mwd on] not having that 7th low slot means no DCU [galante really need this] or one less energized adaptive [20% more damage taken!], or one less dmg mod! [20% less dmg delt] the extra mid is nice, putting a tracking comp on there just about gets back the megas 37.5% tracking. or u can fit what ever, its nice but i wouldnt trade 7lows 4mids for 6lows 5mids the extra gun doesn't make up for less droneage, and the extra gun means u are spending more pg/cpu while drones take none! overall i dont see me using it as a close range BS since the megathron does a better job [that is with the assumed stats] unless perhaps if it could field 8neutrons t2 1 large rep t2, mwd t2, large capinjector and enough cpu to fit the others with decent mods]
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.23 21:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Really? Dunno, i must really stop flying caldari alts. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Ebedar Gallente Primary Intelligence	Posted - 2006.09.23 22:34:00 - [23] TBH, even assuming you know someone who has access to Kali, you're basing your information on one person's experiences. They might just suck as a pilot for all we know. I'm going to wait till the thing's out for testing before actually passing any judgement on it. ~ Balls > WCS
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:26:00 - [24] better whine now than cry and whine later.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom I was told by someone who has more information than us Then someone is breaking his/her NDA and will soon be losing their job. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Err.. Dominix is not a pwnmobile. Heavy nos are overpowered against small stuff and ECM is in general, stupid. Try flying a Dominix without these two things, and you'll see its nowhere close to amazing. Both of which are going to be changed, all part of the FOTM wave. And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:53:00 - [27] I hope they maintain the inital 8/6/6 slot configuration that appeared in the early 'concept'. 8/5/7 infringes on Vindicator territory, 8/4/8 the Navy Megathron. 8/6/6 would however give us a different blaster boat to the Dominix and Megathron - not neccesarily more powerful, different. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:53:00 - [28] Originally by: DigitalCommunist And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. That's probably because it's one of the few ships with a chance of solo'ing said NosEWDomi.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.23 23:56:00 - [29] Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: DigitalCommunist And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. That's probably because it's one of the few ships with a chance of solo'ing said NosEWDomi. Depends if I'm carrying 5x Heavy ECM drones and willing to roll the dice. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:09:00 - [30] said it many times, will say it again mass/acceeration on the BS class with Large blasters is not very important 7 lows slots >>>>>> 6 low slots. only 6 lows if that is what it ends up with means you will have to decide to drop eiter a dmg mod [20% dmg] or a energized adaptive t2 [20% less tanking] both taking stacking into account
Car Wars adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:18:00 - [31] Edited by: Car Wars on 24/09/2006 00:19:02 Well it looks like the hyperion is gonna be the better blasterboat. Why? Well one of the best setups for a blasterthron is gank, neutron, damage mods, plates to tank the damage, 1 large rep. Just kill the nme faster then they kill you. Hyperion will be faster, thus be in range faster. Will be more agile, thus stop faster giving you good shots (basiclly the whole trouble with using a mwd, even the Megathrons tracking bonus doesnot help there). It will have bigger cap, leaving you tanking and shooting longer. And you survive longer because of the higher hitpoints. Should beat a mega one on one. Big trouble with the Tier 3 gallente Bs is: its a Blasterboat only, no room for an other role basiclly. I will be very predicable. A megathon sitting on a gate can be fitted with rails or blastes there is room for surprise there, tier 3 gallente -> no surprise at all, people will always run i think.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Car Wars Big trouble with the Tier 3 gallente Bs is: its a Blasterboat only, no room for an other role basiclly. I will be very predicable. A megathon sitting on a gate can be fitted with rails or blastes there is room for surprise there, tier 3 gallente -> no surprise at all, people will always run i think. I have no complaints, this is exactly the same as a Raven... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Unholy Preacher Trade Consortium Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:56:00 - [33] i actually really wished that the hyperion would be an EW boat along the same lines of sensor dampening cruiser (cant remember the name for the life of me) But yeah one concern tho is that, if you are going to be able to get in closer and orbit faster in the hyperion battleship, dont u need good tracking for it to work ? and wouldnt the megathron yet again be better in that respect ? either way im not losing any sleep over the hyperion stats yet, who knows maybe they will make it a missile boat by the time of launch
Sovereign533 Caldari 133rd Ghost Wing	Posted - 2006.09.24 00:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Wicked Wisdom This isnt a trolling thread, this is supposed to be a legitimate discussion thread... kthxbye probaly said by someone... but... it's not out yet, probaly not final yet... so wait... so no detailles can be given about the ships... so there is nothing to discuss... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... i'm 1337 now...
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.24 01:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Unholy Preacher i actually really wished that the hyperion would be an EW boat along the same lines of sensor dampening cruiser (cant remember the name for the life of me) The Celestis. It's a highly underrated ship and I keep meaning to take one out for a spin some time. I've been on the receiving end.
Sir Bart	Posted - 2006.09.24 01:31:00 - [36] Well, I want ECM to be gimped, so how about if the hyperion has +25% sensor strength to go with it's +5% damage? That would allow it to be a blasterthron, without a blasterthron's huge weakness. Then since the megathron is gonna be long range, change it's tracking bonus to be optimal range. I like the idea of the nano-typhoon (I had this idea a long time ago but it was a nano dominix, drones can hit while I orbit, but I've never used missiles since I'm gallente or I"m sure I woulda used the typhoon) and hoped the hyperion could use speed for defence... the only way this can work though is if it has incredible tracking... or some launcher hardpoints (yuck). Have only one bonus on the ship... +20 % tracking. And I'll find a way to make it work. :P Also... someone said that they could get 1400 dps outta the hyperion, I thought this sounded ridiculous so I ran some numbers trying to disprove that but... With a megathron with neutron II's, void ammo, and 4 magnetic feild stabs you get 154 dps per gun and then 5 X t2 berserkers do another 200 dps. We know a hyperion can't use the same level of drones so say it gets 160 for drone damage, and since the damage bonus is the same (effectively worse because the tracking bonus gives more of a damage boost than an 8th gun does but we'll say that tracking doesn't matter) we can guess the hyperion would max out with: 8 X 154 + 160 = 1392. Nearly 1400 dps. In case you're wondering a megathron can do 1278. That's with perfect skills (blaster specialization lvl 5 since I'm sure we all have that by now) P.S. Don't try it, you'll get jammed and die. :P
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.24 04:30:00 - [37] I suggested a big celestis a while ago: 5/8/6 with 5 launcher slots, a +10% damp bonus and a +5% ROF bonus to launchers. With a 175m3 drone bay and a 700m3 cargo hold. Would work great. Because I said so...
tarin adur	Posted - 2006.09.24 05:02:00 - [38] how can you posssibly have a discussion about something that has yet to be released? all the info you have is either mere speculations or rumors that have been spread around. at this point the dev's could change everything if they felt they made it wrong. fixes nerdy glasses
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 06:21:00 - [39] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Err.. Dominix is not a pwnmobile. Heavy nos are overpowered against small stuff and ECM is in general, stupid. Try flying a Dominix without these two things, and you'll see its nowhere close to amazing. Both of which are going to be changed, all part of the FOTM wave. And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. Yeah, without ecm and nos, the Dominix wouldnt be so good. And the Raven wouldnt be so good without t2 torpedoes. The Mega wouldnt be so good without t2 null having the range it has. But all these things are currently in game, and are making those ships alot better than the others imo. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.24 06:33:00 - [40] Well you'd be happy to know that I don't like any of those things, but if you think Null has made the Megathron better.. you're probably of the same crowd that thinks you can't have a blaster ship without a silly mwd bonus. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 06:35:00 - [41] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/09/2006 06:35:52 Originally by: DigitalCommunist you're probably of the same crowd that thinks you can't have a blaster ship without a silly mwd bonus. Of course you can, specially since the MWD bonus seems useless on the ship. Ive read some threads about it, and it doesnt seem like a good bonus at all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dred 'Morte Sabre Inc Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.09.24 08:44:00 - [42] The 5% cap recharge bonus of the Vengeance is like 4 times better than the thorax mwd bonus in terms of final cap recharge IIRC. MWD Bonus = Stupid, near useless bonus. What is 25% or even 50% less MWD cap penalty compared to a 25% cap recharge bonus that completly makes up for the MWD penalty? How can an amarr ship have a better bonus for mwd users than gallente ships do? Silly PS: Sorry if this is kinda off topic. Signature made by Mr Floppykickners
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Sir Bart Well, I want ECM to be gimped, so how about if the hyperion has +25% sensor strength to go with it's +5% damage? That would allow it to be a blasterthron, without a blasterthron's huge weakness. Then since the megathron is gonna be long range, change it's tracking bonus to be optimal range. Woah hold on there, this isn't supposed to be replacing the Megathron, none of the Tier 3's are replacing their Tier 2 counterparts, so it needs to be different, the best way of going about that is a differing slot configuration to the Dominix and Megathron (and faction variants of course). Originally by: Sir Bart Also... someone said that they could get 1400 dps outta the hyperion, I thought this sounded ridiculous so I ran some numbers trying to disprove that but... With a megathron with neutron II's, void ammo, and 4 magnetic feild stabs you get 154 dps per gun and then 5 X t2 berserkers do another 200 dps. We know a hyperion can't use the same level of drones so say it gets 160 for drone damage, and since the damage bonus is the same (effectively worse because the tracking bonus gives more of a damage boost than an 8th gun does but we'll say that tracking doesn't matter) we can guess the hyperion would max out with: 8 X 154 + 160 = 1392. Nearly 1400 dps. In case you're wondering a megathron can do 1278. That's with perfect skills (blaster specialization lvl 5 since I'm sure we all have that by now) P.S. Don't try it, you'll get jammed and die. :P If you compare like for like drones, i.e put Ogre II's on the Megathron, you add another 116 Dps on top of that. Drone damage of 158 dps is maximum Hammerhead II damage output, so infact both ships would be doing around the same damage (actually a ~ 4dps advantage to the Megathron). Add in a 8/6/6 slot configuration and the Hyperion won't be beating the Megathron at its own game, but will have greater flexibility. As I said, these aren't supposed to replace the Tier 2 ships, and reading the blog Tux has, thankfully, decided not to try and pigeon-hole the Megathron into having only a long range role... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/09/2006 06:34:07 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/09/2006 19:51:18 Im certain it will be another pwnmobile. Just look at the Domi and the Mega ffs... gallente have the best solo pvp battleships in the game. Your third wont be any different. And im not surprised the mega kills the hyperion. The mega kills everything. Err.. Dominix is not a pwnmobile. Heavy nos are overpowered against small stuff and ECM is in general, stupid. Try flying a Dominix without these two things, and you'll see its nowhere close to amazing. Both of which are going to be changed, all part of the FOTM wave. And I don't even wanna begin telling you how flawed your interpretation of the blaster Megathron's abilities are. I've seen more Typhoons being used in the last year, which is quite frankly, disturbing. Yeah, without ecm and nos, the Dominix wouldnt be so good. And the Raven wouldnt be so good without t2 torpedoes. The Mega wouldnt be so good without t2 null having the range it has. But all these things are currently in game, and are making those ships alot better than the others imo. I really hate the argument that within 20k, the mega is supposed to win vs all. What are the rest of us doing here then? Its poor game balance. I wouldnt complain if it was below 10k, because then you could try to keep it at range and fight it. Currently, if you do that, he warps off... :/ And yes, the Raven might beat it. Its a overpowered ship with t2 torps. In terms of Megathron vs. Raven the only saving grace is Void L, the addition of that ammunition is the only change to have occured that gives a Megathron a chance against a tanked siege launcher Raven with BCU's in the low slots. Even then, it's still exceptionally close (not withstanding crystal implants which screw the balance up completely) - too close infact, when considering one ship has an 80km range the other a 3.75km range... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:34:00 - [45] Leave raven alone:P I'm training sensor linking now But tbh, ecm vampadomi is just retarded, i can fly one pretty maxed skills for it, but i usually stick 3-4 backups on so i can kill all jammafgts out there. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:43:00 - [46] Originally by: Gabriel Karade In terms of Megathron vs. Raven the only saving grace is Void L, the addition of that ammunition is the only change to have occured that gives a Megathron a chance against a tanked siege launcher Raven with BCU's in the low slots. Even then, it's still exceptionally close (not withstanding crystal implants which screw the balance up completely) - too close infact, when considering one ship has an 80km range the other a 3.75km range... Doesnt it say something about game balance, when the megathron with frigging void have a problem killing the Raven? I mean, what about all the other battleships? Is this game really supposed to be about caldari vs gallente? It makes me sad to see minmatar and amarr being so specialized that they are useless outside fleets. :/ --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.24 09:59:00 - [47] This thread sucks. All whine and no stats. Give us up to date stats or shut the ** up (no, that's not forum filter, it's just four stars). Additionally, I'd personally not comment on the MWD/AB mass bonus before testing it. There is no such comparable bonus in game, and it might turn out that the Hyperion will be 40% faster with MWD on as well as being able to actually have a turn radius of less than 30km. As for the drone bay... that's what you get when you try to cram two all-to-similar ships into the same category. It's to make room for the Megathron. Where's the Intaki ships, by the way? Intaki are the only** ones getting a bonus to electronic warfare natively. Guess we'll have to wait for the battleship overhaul (compare: cruiser/frigate overhaul) in 2008. - Three years old
Magnus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:04:00 - [48] The hyperion will probably be a good blaster boat, and should ofcourse beat the blastermega and autopest if it gets close. Thats not the problem. The problem is that a blaster boat is very limited. You cant really do that much with it. The Hyperion will only be good for a few specific PvP situations, while it will suck badly for most PvP and all PvE. Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE. What exacly do you mean by this? What can the minnie battleships do that the blasterboats cant? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE. What exacly do you mean by this? What can the minnie battleships do that the blasterboats cant? giant piles of scrapheap with lots and lots of rust on top? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.24 12:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Magnus Thermopyle Compare this to the minmatar BS, which will be good for just about all types of PvP and PvE. What exacly do you mean by this? What can the minnie battleships do that the blasterboats cant? cap use on hybrids are very high. that is why u dont ever see a megathron with blasters/rails doing lvl3/4 missions rails are ok for belt ratting though
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.09.24 13:10:00 - [52] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 23/09/2006 20:13:50 Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Wicked Wisdom Edited by: Wicked Wisdom on 23/09/2006 19:15:58 Im pretty ****ed off at the low PG, I was told it cant even fit 8 Ions and a decent tank, let alone 8 Neutrons... What are your comments on the Hyperion? I was told (well actually I figured this for myself) that I should wait until release before I start complaining on something that isn't final and can't be verified. But it's so much better to scream that the sky is falling before you walk outside. edit: I hear the Drake is getting a bonus to CPU and grid reduction of seige launchers, and will acutally be a 7-torp launcher battlecruiser with a 10% ROF bonus. It will also have 8 midslots and 30k shield base, with a 100sec regen. wow, that is surprisingly nerfed for a caldari ship Maybe not herpes, but I'll give ya goat!-Tirg
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 13:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/09/2006 09:45:31 Originally by: Gabriel Karade In terms of Megathron vs. Raven the only saving grace is Void L, the addition of that ammunition is the only change to have occured that gives a Megathron a chance against a tanked siege launcher Raven with BCU's in the low slots. Even then, it's still exceptionally close (not withstanding crystal implants which screw the balance up completely) - too close infact, when considering one ship has an 80km range the other a 3.75km range... Doesnt it say something about game balance, when the megathron with frigging void have a problem killing the Raven? I mean, what about all the other battleships? Is this game really supposed to be about caldari vs gallente? It makes me sad to see minmatar and amarr being so specialized that they are useless outside fleets. :/ Well personally I attribute that to the fact torpedos no longer do splash damage, if they did a Raven pilot would really have to consider "Am I really doing enough damage before that Megathron gets into contact?..." rather than 'sit at 80km - 0m', spamming torpedos without a care in the world ---------- - Office Linebacker -
El'hith	Posted - 2006.09.24 13:13:00 - [54] Personally i dreamed of the hyp been a uber version of the cele :( Sniping and damps :( guys its not gonna happen. I guess we really need another close range ship to go with our noss/ecm doms and blaster throns! So why not throw in a extra blaster boat to keep things err... balanced
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.24 14:45:00 - [55] A bit off topic, but: Torps no longer do splash damage because of a few minor disfunctionalities with splash damage: 1. CONCORDOKKEN - You just hit that abandoned shuttle. 2. Suicide - you just hit yourself. 3. Suidice Mk.II - Your ship died, and the enemy was really close, now watch as those five salvoes of torps that were chasing him hits him... and your pod. 4. Loot. What loot? Cans died. Celestis isn't a sniping ship, it's a medium range railboat. Were the Hyperion to be a sensor dampening ship (it'd need a 7.5% dampener bonus to be able to compete and overcome sensor boosters on battleships, by the way), it'd optimally be used in the 20 to 30 km range (Javelin 450mm or T1 ammo dual 250mm railguns). Dampeners do not function well outside 50km, and aplying range bonus to a 30km optimal weapon belonging to a short-range race is... - Three years old
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.24 16:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Ithildin A bit off topic, but: Torps no longer do splash damage because of a few minor disfunctionalities with splash damage: 1. CONCORDOKKEN - You just hit that abandoned shuttle. 2. Suicide - you just hit yourself. 3. Suidice Mk.II - Your ship died, and the enemy was really close, now watch as those five salvoes of torps that were chasing him hits him... and your pod. 4. Loot. What loot? Cans died. But you have to admit, points 2. and 3. would bury the Blaster boat vs. torpedo Raven argument for good... àeither the Raven does enough damage at range to destroy the Megathron, or enough so that it survives a few of its own torpedo's at close range, or it dies/suicides if the Megathron gets into combat sufficiently intact. Anyway IÆll stop hijacking this thread. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Lesferath	Posted - 2006.09.24 17:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Dred 'Morte The 5% cap recharge bonus of the Vengeance is like 4 times better than the thorax mwd bonus in terms of final cap recharge IIRC. MWD Bonus = Stupid, near useless bonus. What is 25% or even 50% less MWD cap penalty compared to a 25% cap recharge bonus that completly makes up for the MWD penalty? How can an amarr ship have a better bonus for mwd users than gallente ships do? Silly PS: Sorry if this is kinda off topic. This is not the way it works. The MWD cap penalty is 25% of max cap. A bonus of 5% per lvl will at lvl 5 fully compensate the penalty. A bonus of 10% (Vindicator) does even give an advantage when fitting a MWD (+25% max cap). However, this bonus is still pretty useless on a battleship, even on a Vindicator you'll need cap boosters to win a fight.
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:06:00 - [58] i think the nerfed PG is about rediculous, i think the devs need to realize that blasters and railguns take quite a bit of PG next to lasers, all gallente ships should get a bit more pg in my opinion, not only to fit guns but also to fit reppers at the same time like any other ship in the game.
Darpz Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:20:00 - [59] as long as it can fit something like this it will pwn 8xIon II MWD Web Scram 2xMultiSpecs and an Injector LAR II 2xEAN 3xDamage Mods that will be about 1000DPS or so and if it goes 2000 or so meters per sec with a t2 MWD which I think is about right it will be a very formidable BS High Damage High Spped Light no tank. Think of this ship as the vagabond for BS
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Lesferath Originally by: Dred 'Morte The 5% cap recharge bonus of the Vengeance is like 4 times better than the thorax mwd bonus in terms of final cap recharge IIRC. MWD Bonus = Stupid, near useless bonus. What is 25% or even 50% less MWD cap penalty compared to a 25% cap recharge bonus that completly makes up for the MWD penalty? How can an amarr ship have a better bonus for mwd users than gallente ships do? Silly PS: Sorry if this is kinda off topic. This is not the way it works. The MWD cap penalty is 25% of max cap. A bonus of 5% per lvl will at lvl 5 fully compensate the penalty. A bonus of 10% (Vindicator) does even give an advantage when fitting a MWD (+25% max cap). However, this bonus is still pretty useless on a battleship, even on a Vindicator you'll need cap boosters to win a fight. Actually, no. That's not at all how it works. The Thorax' capacitor penalty adds +25% capacitor to the capacitor capacity after an MWD has been added: 100% - 25% + 25% = 1000.751.25 = 93.75% Remember that percentage is multiplicative and not addative. The Vindicator with level 5 has 1000.751.5 = 112.5% capacitor - Three years old

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