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Recon Cruisers the "Curse" in Modern PVP

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Jane Vladmir Gallente Warmongers	Posted - 2006.09.24 15:53:00 - [61] They're fine. If you can't catch 'em keep practicing, you'll get it eventually.
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.24 17:20:00 - [62] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson So lets hear from anyone who has solo'd a BS in any other recon than a pilfrim plz. An arazu can dampen any BS well below 10 km targeting range and a falcon..well, ECM. The advantage of a pilgrim is that it can kill the tank fast with it's nos, the other recons have it harder to break it. If the target has a ratting tank, though, which isn't against the damage types the recon uses a falcon or arazu should not have much of an issue killing it though. I know an Arazu can dampen and a Falcon can keep jamming them but how many ppl have actually solo killed a pvp fitted BS with them? Unless the BS is drained of cap they should be able to tank the damage the other recons can do as their damage output isnt great. The damage output on a Pilgrim isnt that great either but since it sucks the cap that doesn't really matter since its target can't maintain its cap. I'm not saying other Recons can't and it hasn't happened, but I don't want to hear theoretical if's and maybes but actually have some examples of when it has been done. I look forward to hearing anyone who has done this. No "I have a friend" or "I have a friend of a friend" comments. If you haven't done it yourself show the link to the killmail or post it if it doesn't break the forum rules.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.24 17:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson I know an Arazu can dampen and a Falcon can keep jamming them but how many ppl have actually solo killed a pvp fitted BS with them? Unless the BS is drained of cap they should be able to tank the damage the other recons can do as their damage output isnt great. The damage output on a Pilgrim isnt that great either but since it sucks the cap that doesn't really matter since its target can't maintain its cap. "pvp fitted BS" != "BS" Yes, solo against a PvP fitted an arazu or falcon will get problems ("problems" in terms of not breaking the tank, no it getting killed by it). But alone you usually go after ratters. Solo the pilgrim is stronger, thats no question. But the arazu or falcon are quite effective in a more limited way, too. And - IMO - their abilities are more useful in groups than the amarr recons. The only really "bad" solo recon is the minnie one (although that one is highly effective in catching those annoying inty gnats which are quite common in 0.0). Also, as solo "powerplayer" with high survivability the vaga is still > pilgrim. Can avoid bubblecamps due to speed just as well and has an higher dps. Quote: ..If you haven't done it yourself show the link to the killmail or post it if it doesn't break the forum rules. Technically it is allowed, but considering that for example Sarmaul got his 10th warning (and permaban) for posting a killmail in general (where there is no rule against it) it seems to be kinda "flexible".
DrEiak Amarr IONSTAR Vox Imperium	Posted - 2006.09.24 18:10:00 - [64] I like recons. I am happy amarr have a ship worth flying. I do think that ECM is broken. Anyways, I have always thought smartbombs should have a larger range, and maybe a longer recharge time. I would like CCP to add some more skills to smartbombs making them a more useful module. Perhaps they could do something like make different kinds of smartbombs, but an idea that i had was a module (like a smartbomb) with a long reactivation time and a long range (maybe like 5 minute reactivate) but had a range of about 20km that does not do much damage, but would decloak a ship. I would also like to see a skill that increases range of smartbombs. But then again I think that large smartbombs should have a range of ~10km (perhaps leave range at 7.5km but add in a skill that would make 10km possible). Of corse I also thought it was funny that they are called smartbombs, when they hit EVERYTHING, should be called Omnis, Novas something of the like, but not smartbombs. ALSO ships like the curse/pilgrim are not indestructable, they have nice resistances, but their tanks is not as tough as a HAC, or tanked battleship. Ultimatly smartbombs will render a curse offenseless, and NOS might still be something to contend with, but if you have missles, or projectiles they dont use any cap, so i wouldnt complain too much. All in all the curse is a great ship, but the only people nos nerfs hurt are amarr, since gallente and amarr are the only races that have to contend with cap usage when fireing (DONT YOU DARE SAY CALDARI, caldari rail boats are snipers, if your getting NOSed you deserve it). Anyways, some of my thoughts on recons, and cloaks. OH gallente got drones too, and i hear a lot of people say the way to beat curse/pilgrim is just to send drones after them. I wonder if CCP is ever going to make warp scramble drones O.o
Pairadice Caldari Paradise Venture	Posted - 2006.09.24 18:26:00 - [65] I stopped reading when I saw "eksperience".
Xianthar Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 19:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood eksperience honetly i didn't make it past that...the irony killed me. -xian
Xeliya	Posted - 2006.09.24 21:12:00 - [67] Even though it has been said is many different posts I will point out the facts on the other side of the argument. True Cov Ops - They require alot of skill - They do crap DPS - They have huge EW bonus to make up for the lack of tank/dps - They cost around 200mill for a standard setup which only about 10mill is insured Half Cov Ops - They require alot of skill - They have ok DPS - They can't cloak when warping, they lose 75% speed while cloaked, the can't target for 5 sec after uncloaking (WITH MAXED SKILLS) - They can't tank worth crap either So all in all they are not solo pwn mobiles. I can 3-2 salvo a Falcon with a Raven with cruise missiles and that guy just lost 200-250mill. So all in all please stop crying because you got ganked by a gang of cov ops ships. It cost less to lose a T2 fitted battleship then one of these ships.
Riddari Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.24 21:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood its ruin good old days pvp where things got blown up.. ¼+¼ a history
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.24 23:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson So lets hear from anyone who has solo'd a BS in any other recon than a pilfrim plz. An arazu can dampen any BS well below 10 km targeting range and a falcon..well, ECM. The advantage of a pilgrim is that it can kill the tank fast with it's nos, the other recons have it harder to break it. If the target has a ratting tank, though, which isn't against the damage types the recon uses a falcon or arazu should not have much of an issue killing it though. I know an Arazu can dampen and a Falcon can keep jamming them but how many ppl have actually solo killed a pvp fitted BS with them? Unless the BS is drained of cap they should be able to tank the damage the other recons can do as their damage output isnt great. The damage output on a Pilgrim isnt that great either but since it sucks the cap that doesn't really matter since its target can't maintain its cap. I'm not saying other Recons can't and it hasn't happened, but I don't want to hear theoretical if's and maybes but actually have some examples of when it has been done. I look forward to hearing anyone who has done this. No "I have a friend" or "I have a friend of a friend" comments. If you haven't done it yourself show the link to the killmail or post it if it doesn't break the forum rules. I killed a Raven in a Arazu once. But it was afk in a belt But to answer to your question properly, I have t2 med hybrid, t2 drones and all the relevent damage skills trained and I cant break a properly fitted BS tank in a realistic amount of time. Blasters instead of rails would help but I doubt it would help enough. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.24 23:33:00 - [70] Although blasters wouldn't really be a realistic option if you use sensor damps.
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.25 00:47:00 - [71] Nice one infinity! BTW Aramendel I wasn't saying the others were crap I was just asking if ppl used the other types to solo kill BS size targets. I know what the ships can do as I use both Caldari and Minmatar recons but I also know that if I used them for solo pvp'ing I'd have to be alot more carefull/lucky than if I waited another 2 weeks and trained up Amarr cruiser 5 so I can use the pilgrim as well.
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.25 02:02:00 - [72] Edited by: Dahin on 25/09/2006 02:03:49 Originally by: Infinity Ziona The other day I attacked a 5 month old Raven pilot in my Arazu. He just laughed at me in local cause the Arazu damage is **e. Today I attacked a Zealot in my Arazu, I was going good till he got a lock (3 damps) and then was pwned in about 20 seconds losing Cov Cloak, Arazu, T2 drones, guns and launchers. You see while they are really good ships, they have **e damage and can't tank for crap and when you lose them, it costs you 100 million plus. Thats a fair tradeoff imo. If you pay attention to the bonuses, you can be invincible to ANY battleship without sensorboosters (yups, those damn rathunters). You just tail them till there's a spawn that can't be permatanked (like 3 bs) and then simply dampen then and orbit outside their maxlock range. You don't need dps to kill him, the rats do it for you, quite effectively too. Hence the killmail stealing. There's a specific fit that gives you enough scramrange to be outside their locking range. Could be the 3-damp + scrams, not sure. In contrast to the other recons, the target has 0 chance of countering you (unless he's sensorboosted) and much smaller chances of escaping (since you do have more than one scrams)
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.25 03:28:00 - [73] Edited by: Foulis on 25/09/2006 03:29:34 Edited by: Foulis on 25/09/2006 03:28:14 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 24/09/2006 07:03:37 I'd like to respond to the arguments of the post itself, but it's written with such utter disregard for the English language that I feel I would dirty myself to do so. Just having read it, I already feel like taking a shower. Read over your post, run it through spellcheck, and learn that NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT! Oh, and nerf Amarr recons. You're officially in my sig now. Edit: Or not... stupid text amount limiter Edit2: There we go. ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.25 04:09:00 - [74] Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Lunas Feelgood eksperience honetly i didn't make it past that...the irony killed me. -xian And yet your response starts with the word "HONETLY". ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.25 04:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 24/09/2006 08:24:47 Originally by: Yolan Stop being an ass, the OP native language is not English. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that in his language, "l8tr" would be the correct spelling. Because so many languages use the letter "8". I don't care what language you speak natively, there's nothing preventing you from running your long-ass post through Spellcheck. Originally by: Yolan I would like to see you try to write a post in his native tongue. These are English-only forums so he can put a bit of effort into writing IN ENGLISH properly or get somebody else to post for him. Or get the hell out. My Spanish is pretty half-assed, so do I go posting Splanglish crap onto Spanish-only forums? Hell no. I see no evidence here that this guy speaks any non-English language other than AOLspeak. And if he was raised in an AOLspeaking household, then dear god the Earth is doomed. Did you get beat up a lot in school? ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Xianthar Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.25 04:27:00 - [76] Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Lunas Feelgood eksperience honetly i didn't make it past that...the irony killed me. -xian And yet your response starts with the word "HONETLY". good point. however, there is a difference between missing the 's' key by mistake and using the completely wrong letters and _numbers_ to spell words. -xian
Jao Ling	Posted - 2006.09.25 06:02:00 - [77] Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Xianthar Originally by: Lunas Feelgood eksperience honetly i didn't make it past that...the irony killed me. -xian And yet your response starts with the word "HONETLY". good point. however, there is a difference between missing the 's' key by mistake and using the completely wrong letters and _numbers_ to spell words. -xian As said before, not all people have english as their primary language. So stop being *******s about people not spelling correctly. Ignorant morons.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.25 06:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Foulis You're officially in my sig now. \o/ That amuses me greatly. Originally by: Wizie Did you get beat up a lot in school? Nope. I got a reputation as a bit of a psycho. "Class bully" shoved me around a bit, so I turned around and broke his nose. Come to think of it...most of my friends still think I'm a bit of a psycho, albeit for different reasons... Originally by: Jao Ling Originally by: Xianthar there is a difference between missing the 's' key by mistake and using the completely wrong letters and _numbers_ to spell words. As said before, not all people have english as their primary language. Do I need to direct you to Foulis' signature? --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy
Jao Ling	Posted - 2006.09.25 07:05:00 - [79] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: Foulis You're officially in my sig now. \o/ That amuses me greatly. Originally by: Wizie Did you get beat up a lot in school? Nope. I got a reputation as a bit of a psycho. "Class bully" shoved me around a bit, so I turned around and broke his nose. Come to think of it...most of my friends still think I'm a bit of a psycho, albeit for different reasons... Originally by: Jao Ling Originally by: Xianthar there is a difference between missing the 's' key by mistake and using the completely wrong letters and _numbers_ to spell words. As said before, not all people have english as their primary language. Do I need to direct you to Foulis' signature? I can't find his 'cause your signature takes up half the screen. And by the way; Funny when I look in your signature english apparently can have numbers... I didn't know "4tw" was enlgish either.
TuRtLe HeAd The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.09.25 07:50:00 - [80] I think they are fine. They PoP With Ease if you can hit them. Warp while cloaked ? Thats the whole point of them, Theres little or no point doing recon, if you get seen. One issue I have noticed is that yet again the Minmatar race comes short. They have a wicked webbing bonus, And A Lame Painter bonus. ]if you break it down it looks like this. Caldari, Jams you , you can't lock back And then you die. Gallente, Dampens you , you cant lock back, And Then you die. Amarr, Tracking Disrupts AND Noses you AND Drones you to death, So You can't hit them back Or Repair your self and get buggered by Drones. Minmatar Paints them and Webs them, you lock back, you fire back and you kill the recon ship. Thats the only imbalance.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.25 08:11:00 - [81] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson So lets hear from anyone who has solo'd a BS in any other recon than a pilfrim plz. An arazu can dampen any BS well below 10 km targeting range and a falcon..well, ECM. The advantage of a pilgrim is that it can kill the tank fast with it's nos, the other recons have it harder to break it. If the target has a ratting tank, though, which isn't against the damage types the recon uses a falcon or arazu should not have much of an issue killing it though. I get the feeling that most people on this thread don't fly recons themselves. If they did, they would know that yes, an Arazu can damp one bs to below 10km... and know that in most cases, that only results in a stalemate. The ship has 3 medium guns and a few drones, and you don't want to use blasters since that requires you to get close. You really think you're breaking the tank of a normal ratting battleship with 3 med railguns and a few med drones? Not going to happen. Even most decent ratting cruisers can tank that. It comes down to who gets bored first, or who has friends arriving to help first. Please, people, try the ships first before you make wild claims. The only serious solo cloaking recon is the Pilgrim, due to the cap-killing nosfe power and drones -- and even that dies easily in a lot of situations. The rest are mostly gang support ships -- you can solo in them, but it's very risky due to the lack of tank and the high price of the ship + cloak.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.25 08:24:00 - [82] The force recons, while very powerfull, need to be used with care. I've seen several pilgrims with highly skilled pilots (talking about personal skill here) die because of just one small error in flying them. Just like with covert ops frigs once caught they die quickly for such an expensive ship. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Adrian Kerensky Nexus Legion Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.25 08:45:00 - [83] I fly two races of recon cruisers all the time, and guess what? I still fly T1 cruisers also. T1 cruisers aren't obsolete, they are still extremely viable PvP ships. Your cons on the recons are all very well and good, but you are forgetting that: On the whole they cost from 60-120 mill ISK each They can't be insured The setups on them, whilst not essential, are so much more effective with faction modules as to make not using faction silly. Meaning setups are also extremely expensive. Covert opps cloaks are in short supply and cost 70 mill each Unless you desperately feel the need to cloak, the combat recons are better combat ships anyway (I know that given the choice I would rather fly a curse over a pilgrim, you don't need to be able to cloak if you have good scanner skills)
Learesh Caldari The Old White Lion	Posted - 2006.09.25 08:49:00 - [84] Edited by: Learesh on 25/09/2006 08:49:02 Quote: Caldari, Jams you , you can't lock back And then you die. Gallente, Dampens you , you cant lock back, And Then you die. Amarr, Tracking Disrupts AND Noses you AND Drones you to death, So You can't hit them back Or Repair your self and get buggered by Drones. Minmatar Paints them and Webs them, you lock back, you fire back and you kill the recon ship. Huggin's R teh Sux yo ! Don't you go buyin' no Huggins !
TuRtLe HeAd The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.09.25 08:54:00 - [85] Arbitrator Vexor are teh Sexor ! Guess what, pilgrim/curse and Ishtar are the Sexors in their classes !
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.25 09:30:00 - [86] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/09/2006 09:32:51 Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/09/2006 09:31:39 Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/09/2006 09:30:41 Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Caldari, Jams you , you can't lock back And then you die. Gallente, Dampens you , you cant lock back, And Then you die. Amarr, Tracking Disrupts AND Noses you AND Drones you to death, So You can't hit them back Or Repair your self and get buggered by Drones. Minmatar Paints them and Webs them, you lock back, you fire back and you kill the recon ship. Thats the only imbalance. Well, dunno. Granted, the Minmatar recons aren't wonderful solo ships, but as a pair a Lachesis + Huginn (or Arazu + Rapier) is evil beyond words. I've often wished for a minmatar recon in a gang, we've lost all too many kills due to the target making it to the gate and jumping. The only place I see the minnie recons getting solo kills is if they double web + paint frigates (or inties/AFs) and alpha strike them before they warp out. I have heard it's quite doable, recons lock fast. Bigger ships, no go. ...as for the breakdown, here's a fixed version: Caldari, Jams you , you can't lock back but you easily tank the damage and laugh (and force the recon to run if you had drones out or have FoF missiles) Gallente, Dampens you , you cant lock back but... (see Caldari above, with the addition of "or you MWD next to them and kill them, since damps don't work close-range") Amarr, Tracking Disrupts AND Noses you AND Drones you to death, So You can't hit them back Or Repair your self and get buggered by Drones -- except if you're in a passive tanked ship or have drones or have missiles, in which case the recon goes boom. Minmatar Paints them and Webs them, you lock back, you fire back and you kill the recon ship. This is pretty much true.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:19:00 - [87] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Arbitrator Vexor are teh Sexor ! Guess what, pilgrim/curse and Ishtar are the Sexors in their classes ! That's because drones = the win of close range. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:23:00 - [88] Alex what you said about ppl should fly them b4 they make the claims is very true thats why I asked for ppl who had actually used and solo'd in them. I don't feel Minmatar got the sh1tty end of the stick because when it comes to gatecamping with an interdictor in the gang the minnie recons rock. Just with level 3 in recon ships you can web targets up to 28km which is not to be sniffed at. Nik u r a t4rd hoo shood stfu and not complane abowt ppls speeling on the e-o forums! Either you are really an@ly retentive about spelling or you love yourself alot. Hmm I reckon it could be a mixture of the two with a pinch of an inferiority complex and a hint of self loathing since you know you are a wimp and couldn't stick up for yourself with the school bulley and lied about it in this forum!
oodin Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:51:00 - [89] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 24/09/2006 08:24:47 Originally by: Yolan Stop being an ass, the OP native language is not English. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that in his language, "l8tr" would be the correct spelling. Because so many languages use the letter "8". I don't care what language you speak natively, there's nothing preventing you from running your long-ass post through Spellcheck. Originally by: Yolan I would like to see you try to write a post in his native tongue. These are English-only forums so he can put a bit of effort into writing IN ENGLISH properly or get somebody else to post for him. Or get the hell out. My Spanish is pretty half-assed, so do I go posting Splanglish crap onto Spanish-only forums? Hell no. I see no evidence here that this guy speaks any non-English language other than AOLspeak. And if he was raised in an AOLspeaking household, then dear god the Earth is doomed. well we dont use 8 in norwegian words either, but we dont use - in any words. is HALF-ASSED a correct way to write nikolai??
Wanna Kill Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:16:00 - [90] Originally by: Trem Sinval Originally by: Bewl I actually called my Microwave a 'Microwarp' to my fiancee the other day. Set your burrito to 2km/sec on high! - Trem Wtf lmao ---------- Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])[/orange] It is time, to unpimp ze modpowers! - Wanna Kill I'm home!

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