|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page | |
| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
 BSOD    |
Posted - 2003.06.04 14:44:00 -
[31] DrS: I understand that small corps should be at a disadvantage, but they should not be at such a severe disadvantage. Option b) implemented on kernite only provides for 4-5 megacyte per laser per hour, as opposed to the 80 minumum that large corps can obtain from spodumain. (Bist is 123, Ark is 242) That's disadvantage enough for the small fry. A large corp can mine 16 times as much per hour per laser, and due to having more people and more cruisers, they will have more lasers available. Bentguru: You have to think about it in terms of m3 of ore, and the amount of megacyte obtained per m3. And did I EVER suggest pyroxeres as a candidate for this treatment? No, for a reason. Pyrox gives around 28 refines per hour per laser, so placing 1 megacyte per refine (pre-wastage) of pyrox would indeed be a bad thing, as it would provide 1/4 the megacyte per hour per laser of spodumain, not 1/16. Omber gives 9.6 refines per hour per Miner1, Kernite 6, giving approx. 7.5 and 4.5 units per hour per laser post-refine at the base refining rate of 75%. (This is with Mining level 4). I mentioned in my original post on the other boards that anyone who wants a copy of my orecalc that was used to come up with these figures is welcome to it. It's a Perl CGI licensed under the GPL, and can be used from ingame. I would make it public, but I don't have the hosting to handle it. Since this board has no PM function, send a message to BSOD ingame if you want to arrange for a copy to be sent to you. (Note, don't expect him to be online, he's my manufacturing alt so doesn't get much playtime.) ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
 BSOD Gallente Calista Industries |
Posted - 2003.06.04 14:44:00 -
[32] DrS: I understand that small corps should be at a disadvantage, but they should not be at such a severe disadvantage. Option b) implemented on kernite only provides for 4-5 megacyte per laser per hour, as opposed to the 80 minumum that large corps can obtain from spodumain. (Bist is 123, Ark is 242) That's disadvantage enough for the small fry. A large corp can mine 16 times as much per hour per laser, and due to having more people and more cruisers, they will have more lasers available. Bentguru: You have to think about it in terms of m3 of ore, and the amount of megacyte obtained per m3. And did I EVER suggest pyroxeres as a candidate for this treatment? No, for a reason. Pyrox gives around 28 refines per hour per laser, so placing 1 megacyte per refine (pre-wastage) of pyrox would indeed be a bad thing, as it would provide 1/4 the megacyte per hour per laser of spodumain, not 1/16. Omber gives 9.6 refines per hour per Miner1, Kernite 6, giving approx. 7.5 and 4.5 units per hour per laser post-refine at the base refining rate of 75%. (This is with Mining level 4). I mentioned in my original post on the other boards that anyone who wants a copy of my orecalc that was used to come up with these figures is welcome to it. It's a Perl CGI licensed under the GPL, and can be used from ingame. I would make it public, but I don't have the hosting to handle it. Since this board has no PM function, send a message to BSOD ingame if you want to arrange for a copy to be sent to you. (Note, don't expect him to be online, he's my manufacturing alt so doesn't get much playtime.) ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
 Ralimenua |
Posted - 2003.06.04 15:04:00 -
[33] DrStrangelove - Large corporations naturally have considerable advantages. But, as I said, I think the current paucity of Megacyte is disproportionately advantageous to larger Corporations than smaller. The current distribution introduces what looks like (from beneath it) a very high ceiling before a small corporation can obtain Megacyte in sufficient quantities to really grow. This stultifies the growth of small Corporations, and allows only large corporations to thrive and get larger. A year from now do you want to see an EVE with 3 or 4 deadlocked behemoths and dozens of short-lived minnows struggling for survival? With large corporations holding an effective cartel on Megacyte, there's no reason for them to sell it on the open market - they will always do better to use it to extend their cartel to every product that requires Megacyte to manufacture, since they will naturally increase the worth of the raw material. It should be a natural goal of EVE that new players can go it alone, found their own small corporation, and - if not thrive - at least progress. My concern with the current state of affairs is that it leads to stagnation, disinterest and demise for a small corporation. I hope I'm proved wrong. When I find myself seriously regretting not using the make-your-own Megacyte exploit - which I was happy to report - then something is wrong. Grand Vizier and General Factotum Hazara Khan's Haphazard Bazaar The Finest Camels in all EVE! O0o=------------------+------------------=o0O |
 Ralimenua Hazara Khan's Haphazard Bazaar |
Posted - 2003.06.04 15:04:00 -
[34] DrStrangelove - Large corporations naturally have considerable advantages. But, as I said, I think the current paucity of Megacyte is disproportionately advantageous to larger Corporations than smaller. The current distribution introduces what looks like (from beneath it) a very high ceiling before a small corporation can obtain Megacyte in sufficient quantities to really grow. This stultifies the growth of small Corporations, and allows only large corporations to thrive and get larger. A year from now do you want to see an EVE with 3 or 4 deadlocked behemoths and dozens of short-lived minnows struggling for survival? With large corporations holding an effective cartel on Megacyte, there's no reason for them to sell it on the open market - they will always do better to use it to extend their cartel to every product that requires Megacyte to manufacture, since they will naturally increase the worth of the raw material. It should be a natural goal of EVE that new players can go it alone, found their own small corporation, and - if not thrive - at least progress. My concern with the current state of affairs is that it leads to stagnation, disinterest and demise for a small corporation. I hope I'm proved wrong. When I find myself seriously regretting not using the make-your-own Megacyte exploit - which I was happy to report - then something is wrong. Grand Vizier and General Factotum Hazara Khan's Haphazard Bazaar The Finest Camels in all EVE! O0o=------------------+------------------=o0O |
 DrStrangelove |
Posted - 2003.06.04 17:21:00 -
[35] Ralimenua, I understand your concern but let me reassure you that the growth of a new Corp is an exponential curve. Meaning that at first it SEEMS like you’ll never get that cruiser BP and that you are years away from Battleships. But Eventually the growth starts to increase dramatically. I know some people want to be able to thrive on their own or in small member count Corps. And this is entirely possible you just need to know how to survive. With a basic Probe I was able to make about 2.9 million isk in an hour and a half of extremely high risk mining, And this is still possible. You just need the balls to take some big risks. The fact of the matter is large groups work better than small groups and that is what CCP is trying to push. You can still survive but you will never be more powerful alone then with a large Corp it’s just not realistic. m0o corp |
 DrStrangelove Brutor tribe |
Posted - 2003.06.04 17:21:00 -
[36] Ralimenua, I understand your concern but let me reassure you that the growth of a new Corp is an exponential curve. Meaning that at first it SEEMS like you’ll never get that cruiser BP and that you are years away from Battleships. But Eventually the growth starts to increase dramatically. I know some people want to be able to thrive on their own or in small member count Corps. And this is entirely possible you just need to know how to survive. With a basic Probe I was able to make about 2.9 million isk in an hour and a half of extremely high risk mining, And this is still possible. You just need the balls to take some big risks. The fact of the matter is large groups work better than small groups and that is what CCP is trying to push. You can still survive but you will never be more powerful alone then with a large Corp it’s just not realistic. m0o corp |
 BSOD |
Posted - 2003.06.04 19:53:00 -
[37] I think the key is that there is an economic "brick wall" in the current situation. The proposals I've made give small corps a chance to obtain SMALL amounts of megacyte (In the case of option b), at the exact same cashrate.), which removes the extreme disproportionality of the current scheme, while still giving PLENTY of large-corp advantages/incentive to take some risks. (Read, double to quintuple the cash intake, and a minimum 16x improvement in megacyte flow.) A small corp mining "modified kernite" will not be able to produce anywhere near the megacyte amounts or cash that a large corp mining spod/bist/ark can, but at least they can obtain some megacyte without the large corps dictating everything. Edited by: BSOD on 04/06/2003 19:54:35 ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
BSOD Gallente Calista Industries |
Posted - 2003.06.04 19:53:00 -
[38] I think the key is that there is an economic "brick wall" in the current situation. The proposals I've made give small corps a chance to obtain SMALL amounts of megacyte (In the case of option b), at the exact same cashrate.), which removes the extreme disproportionality of the current scheme, while still giving PLENTY of large-corp advantages/incentive to take some risks. (Read, double to quintuple the cash intake, and a minimum 16x improvement in megacyte flow.) A small corp mining "modified kernite" will not be able to produce anywhere near the megacyte amounts or cash that a large corp mining spod/bist/ark can, but at least they can obtain some megacyte without the large corps dictating everything. Edited by: BSOD on 04/06/2003 19:54:35 ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
 rEDisan |
Posted - 2003.06.04 21:25:00 -
[39] In theory, with current prices of megacyte reaching above 12k per unit, it might be the case that people can recycle npc items and sell the megacyte they contain (along with the other minerals) and actually make a profit doing so... I totally agree that some form of blancing needs to be done to stabalise the economy. |
 rEDisan |
Posted - 2003.06.04 21:25:00 -
[40] In theory, with current prices of megacyte reaching above 12k per unit, it might be the case that people can recycle npc items and sell the megacyte they contain (along with the other minerals) and actually make a profit doing so... I totally agree that some form of blancing needs to be done to stabalise the economy. |
 drunkenmaster |
Posted - 2003.06.05 10:06:00 -
[41] Heh, rED, that's what I've been doing since the hammer dropped. It wasn't until afer the changes that I knew you could even get Me/Zy out of npc loot. :) |
 drunkenmaster Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2003.06.05 10:06:00 -
[42] Heh, rED, that's what I've been doing since the hammer dropped. It wasn't until afer the changes that I knew you could even get Me/Zy out of npc loot. :) |
rEDisan |
Posted - 2003.06.05 13:59:00 -
[43] Sssssh, they may all find out :/ |
rEDisan |
Posted - 2003.06.05 13:59:00 -
[44] Sssssh, they may all find out :/ |
 drunkenmaster |
Posted - 2003.06.05 14:49:00 -
[45] /me pretends he didn't say anything. |
drunkenmaster Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2003.06.05 14:49:00 -
[46] /me pretends he didn't say anything. |
Gopher |
Posted - 2003.06.05 19:10:00 -
[47] What loot refines to Megacyte ? I have not seen any myself. Just Zydrine. |
 Gopher |
Posted - 2003.06.05 19:10:00 -
[48] What loot refines to Megacyte ? I have not seen any myself. Just Zydrine. |
BSOD |
Posted - 2003.06.05 21:03:00 -
[49] Same for me. Pirates never seem to drop OD injectors or anything else that refines for mega. Stuff that refines for zydrine drops like candy though. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
BSOD Gallente Calista Industries |
Posted - 2003.06.05 21:03:00 -
[50] Same for me. Pirates never seem to drop OD injectors or anything else that refines for mega. Stuff that refines for zydrine drops like candy though. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
 Hexadeimos |
Posted - 2003.06.06 06:10:00 -
[51] Shhhhhhhhhhh |
 Hexadeimos |
Posted - 2003.06.06 06:10:00 -
[52] Shhhhhhhhhhh |
 rEDisan |
Posted - 2003.06.06 18:43:00 -
[53] there are some loot items that refine for mega, but cleverly there in areas where you can already get mega from the Ark :) Look out for the pirates in cruisers... and also pray to God that you have weapons that do 300 damage and can fire at over 20km :) |
rEDisan |
Posted - 2003.06.06 18:43:00 -
[54] there are some loot items that refine for mega, but cleverly there in areas where you can already get mega from the Ark :) Look out for the pirates in cruisers... and also pray to God that you have weapons that do 300 damage and can fire at over 20km :) |
Nootami |
Posted - 2003.06.08 01:32:00 -
[55] I have a few cargo containers that spawn L crystals randomly, refining into about 20 mega each.
|
 Nootami Amarr Viziam |
Posted - 2003.06.08 01:32:00 -
[56] I have a few cargo containers that spawn L crystals randomly, refining into about 20 mega each.
|
 BSOD |
Posted - 2003.06.09 15:39:00 -
[57] Yet another case of the "brick wall" facing those who don't have the firepower to deal with pirate cruisers. FYI (hope my corp's hosting provider doesn't get ****ed that I'm doing this), you can now access my ore calc at http://militech.nord.is/orecalc/ - Includes my proposed "enhanced kernite" ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
BSOD Gallente Calista Industries |
Posted - 2003.06.09 15:39:00 -
[58] Yet another case of the "brick wall" facing those who don't have the firepower to deal with pirate cruisers. FYI (hope my corp's hosting provider doesn't get ****ed that I'm doing this), you can now access my ore calc at http://militech.nord.is/orecalc/ - Includes my proposed "enhanced kernite" ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises |
 Tigress Lee |
Posted - 2007.04.08 02:44:00 -
[59] good ideas here |
 Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance |
Posted - 2007.04.08 12:19:00 -
[60] Holy necro, this thread is almost 3 years old you know. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page | |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page | |
Originally by: Cortex Reaver| Copyright © 2006-2025, Chribba - OMG Labs. All Rights Reserved. - perf 0,05s, ref 20250910/0834 EVE-Online™ and Eve imagery © CCP. |
| COPYRIGHT NOTICE EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website. |