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Why Nerf Missions?

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Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:30:00 - [1] It has been known for over a year that a small percentage of eve players in 0.0 have been farming 8/10-10/10 complexes for billions per day at no risk yet we still hear what I suspect is these same players calling for missions to be nerfed. The chant of missions are causing inflation is bogus. The ISK is coming from the complexes where there is even less risk than doing missions. This exploit with complexes has existed for over a year. In that time missions for the average player have been nerfed repleatedly. Does CCP do anything about the complexe abuse, no, it is still going on now! So why nerf missions that average players use to make millions a day on and leave the complexes that an elite few use to make billions per day on? So again I say, why nerf missions when CCP will not address the real problems, or is this just a nother way to force casual players out in to low sec and 0.0 because the elites need more targets? This does not reflect the opinion of my corp or alliance, well I dont know if it does or not, I did not ask! svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:31:00 - [2] rabble rabble rabble = cause top tier 1% have 30% of ingame assets and ISK the rest are left to fend for themselves
Durvaul Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:32:00 - [3] Edited by: Durvaul on 25/09/2006 11:32:58 It's not an exploit, it's simply complex farmers who dont like the fact that level 4 missions pay well, we are sick of it, were tired of pvp players ***** up empire players way of life You people have no right to call for missiosn to be nerfed, just so u complex ***s can be richer than we are without even trying I mean do u even realise how ahrd we have to work for the level 4 mission standings? The amount we have to do for LP offers? No i dont think u do, u people need to shut up
Laythun Undercover Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:32:00 - [4] nerf lvl 4 missions cos there too easy and were not meant for solo players. and by nerf i mean lower the rewards or make them harder Proud Member of the Anti Whine 14
Precusor	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Laythun were not meant for solo players. Says who?
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:38:00 - [6] Because CCP like 0.0 and don't really care about exploiting as long as the subs are paid. They don't like empire players because they take up space meant for noobies. CCP wants players to migrate out to 0.0 as they increase experience. They've tried a few things over the years to force the playerbase out into 0.0. The reason for this is to make it easier for new players giving them more resources in empire. Becuase EVE is single shard having 90% of players in Empire means new players find it hard to get a foothold and may not stay. Making it difficult for CCP to increase the player and hence income.
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:40:00 - [7] CCP also balance things tho (esp lots of NPC content in empire) because they know from a business standpoint 70% of players are in empire and if they dont allow them something in empire the carebears levae then the game suffers lower profits lower expenditure on development and the PVPers suffer so they should be grateful to the carebears for the funds the game gets so their experience can be improved as well
Scarib	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:49:00 - [8] 100% agree with you, but its seems more like a plan to make empire "not worth doing" on ccp's part, Oveur mentioned on eve TV that polictics (in eve) was what he liked. 0.0 is where they want players to go, so i guess they wont/cant be bothered to do much, nerf'ing empire missions is an easy option, hurting corps/allianecs in 0.0 wont go down well as they are playing the game the way it was meant to be i.e. not in empire. I guess lots of sales will be made to try and hide isk now, high SP player's sold, large amounts of minerals, not hard to guess where the isk came from, but a few sales and it will be harder to follow, just so much easier to moan about a faction spawn in lvl 4 WC, so much easier to remove agents, this makes Tiller's mission farming seem like loose change.
Damian Vilsalant	Posted - 2006.09.25 11:59:00 - [9] Boost lowsec missions:) _________________ DV
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:00:00 - [10] well if politics is his thing with factional warfare why not add diversity to empire and low sec as well.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:03:00 - [11] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 25/09/2006 12:04:23 Originally by: Laythun nerf lvl 4 missions cos there too easy and were not meant for solo players. and by nerf i mean lower the rewards or make them harder Utter rubbish, In every sense of the word. They were intended to be soloable as a dev stated god only knows how many moons ago. Also seeing as how you said "cos" I guess your entire argument is invalidated anyway.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:06:00 - [12] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 25/09/2006 12:09:16 uhm ... best solution would be rebalance LVL4 missions (or atleast move them ALL to lowsec) rebalance ALL complexes (so that they can't be farmed by some individuals) fixing exploits asap P.S.: yeah - i like empire missions to be "nerfed" .. but the times i entered a complex can be counted on two hands - and i made more money from the players in the complexes than from the npcs ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:12:00 - [13] They really should move the Lvl 4 missions to lowsec. As it stands there is absolutely no risk in running them unless you fall asleep mid-mission. ...and I just know that when the mission spammers see this they are going to flame like mad and complain that low-sec is too risky, and not everyone wants to PvP. Tough. Its designed as a PvP game. Live with it. ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:19:00 - [14] know whats funny? i bet 90% of you neds that post for lvl 4 misson nerfs have never run a mission. you want real change to lvl 4 missions, NERF CALDARI MISSLEBOATS(Ravens), as it is ravens are the easiest by far todo lvl 4's with, with no skills. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:24:00 - [15] People still do missions? Why???? They're tedious, you run the risk of losing your ship if you screw up and the rewards are pathetically small. Don't you all know EVE is a RMT game now? If you need ISK you just buy it via GTC's.
Lenaria	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:30:00 - [16] Edited by: Lenaria on 25/09/2006 12:30:45
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Twilight Moon Edited by: Twilight Moon on 25/09/2006 12:18:46 They really should move the Lvl 4 missions to lowsec. As it stands there is absolutely no risk in running them unless you fall asleep mid-mission. ...and I just know that when the mission spammers see this they are going to flame like mad and complain that low-sec is too risky, and not everyone wants to PvP. Tough. Its designed as a PvP game. Live with it. It really winds me up when i see all these high sec Lvl 4 mission systems packed full of runners, who go on to whinge about the lag, all the while they sit there and chew up the local economy, pouring ISK into the game, while at the same time not sinking any out. I love how the oh so great PvPers conveniently ignore the fact that in order to run missions in your sleep, you need a very very expensive ship setup and I bet most runners do not have that. The countless ships lost to missions every day are testament to that. (And even in a pimped up ship there is always the risk of disconnects, agro bugs etc.) I fail to see what is wrong with a good return on a great investment. If they want a money sink as counterbalance to missions, they should make NPCs sell the uber-mods rather than 0.0 plex farmers. That would definitely sink a whole **load of ISK. And the risk/reward ratio definitely goes down the **er in lowsec when using a pimped up faction ship as the risk part is twofold: The chance to lose something, and the amount of loss if it happens. The latter is another thing commonly ignored by the whining PvPers. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Sendraks	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Twilight Moon Edited by: Twilight Moon on 25/09/2006 12:18:46 They really should move the Lvl 4 missions to lowsec. As it stands there is absolutely no risk in running them unless you fall asleep mid-mission. Bzzzzzzzzt Wrongo. There is plenty of challenge and risk for a newer player doing level 4 missions. Especially if they don't go "easy mode" in either a Raven or a Dominix. It is very easy for a newer player to lose 100million ISK+ worth of BS + fittings in a level 4 mission even if they do know whats coming. Only those players (the minority) who can afford to fly ships with expensive faction fittings can breeze through level 4 missions as though they were half asleep. Originally by: Twilight Moon Tough. Its designed as a PvP game. Live with it. Yes it is a PvP game, but that doesn't limit PvP to just combat. Competition for resources needed to run missions in empire is also Player vs Player. Just because some players think that there is only one definition of PvP doesn't mean everyone should subscribe to it. Originally by: Twilight Moon It really winds me up when i see all these high sec Lvl 4 mission systems packed full of runners, who go on to whinge about the lag, all the while they sit there and chew up the local economy, pouring ISK into the game, while at the same time not sinking any out. Yeah, the whining about lag is ironic, especially as they could make more money, in more safety, in 0.0 space as part of an alliance. Yet no one seems to be complaining about those people out in 0.0 making money hand over fist for very little risk and pouring ISK into the game.
Trojanman190 Caldari Everlasting Impact	Posted - 2006.09.25 12:51:00 - [19] Dont nerf empire... boost 0.0. 0.0 freaking sucks. All the good spots are held by alliances with only crappy space left for people migrating out of empire. I spent an hour zooming around pure blind last night and I saw belts and belts and belts full of JASPET. Jaspet is like 5% better than omber. Nowhere near worth the risk of 0.0. Also, the rat spawns were a joke. A 500k bship every now and then. And pvp? The only pvp encounter was getting through ec-p8r which cant be called pvp because a gate camp with 10 battleships and 4 tacklers with a bubble is NOT pvp. What is the point of me putting a pos up in unihabited space? Mining japet all day or ratting all day is not only insanely boring but wont pay for the cost to run the station. Now lets say I do find a good area, say a -.4 true sec level system. I set my pos up there and im happy. A few days later, an alliance finds out im there and decides that only they can have access to the good systems. So without doubt they will trash my little station. What the heck is the point?
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:09:00 - [20] For those that cry "Nerf empire missions", all none deadspace missions got removed with dragon patch so I hope you feel happy about it. Now we in empire have no chance to get faction stuff like you get in 100 times per day in 0.0. Good job by ruining missions, whiners and devs. Miri, signed. Ship lovers click here
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:17:00 - [21] I agree with the OP here, but I'm left wondering if anybody is actually listening to these concerns any longer. Inflation on the whole is not a problem in a player driven economy where the majority have access to good income. But of course it becomes a big issue where a minority have access to uber income because of gameplay flaws and shortcomings. My concern is whether ccp currently have a developer looking at the general health of the game from an economic big-picture overview, I know particular developers devote themselves to individual issues of balance like missions and ships and such, but sometimes you need an awareness of the general health of the server I think. _________________
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:18:00 - [22] Levae empire missions just ast they are right now. You still can doo good isk, sure its not how it was bevore.. but faction spawns in a 1.0 system (WC!)just is plain wrong imo! But i suggest heavyly boosting lowsec missions and 0.0 spawns.
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:38:00 - [23] If they don't nerf missions slightly (move them into low sec space), then they need to boost spawn rates outside of missions (in belts - etc) in low sec, so that people down in alliance space can make money as easy as people in high sec space running level 4 missions in their sleep. --- Cache Clearer Still waiting for a Wrangler-edit!
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:41:00 - [24] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 25/09/2006 13:44:03 Originally by: Sendraks Bzzzzzzzzt Wrongo. There is plenty of challenge and risk for a newer player doing level 4 missions. Especially if they don't go "easy mode" in either a Raven or a Dominix. It is very easy for a newer player to lose 100million ISK+ worth of BS + fittings in a level 4 mission even if they do know whats coming. Only those players (the minority) who can afford to fly ships with expensive faction fittings can breeze through level 4 missions as though they were half asleep. Yes, newer players might have problems with Missions. Granted, thats to be expected. They have neither the skills or experience of the misions previously to know whats coming. However, once they have run through them 2 or 3 times, or even just bothered to read on the several websites available that list exactly what you'll meet in missions and the order in what to do them, then the risk drops to near 0. Yes, they might disconnect, but thats an out of game problem, its not related to the difficulty of the mission itself. You dont heed a faction fitted BS to do the missions. I've done them in a 1/2 arsed Dominix I threw together for a laugh when I was between corps. Once you've ran them a couple of times (its not as if they're randomised, which IMHO they should be), you know exactly what to shoot, when to shoot it and what order to shoot things in. You know the setup for your ship for each mission that will breeze through it, and you know exactly what tank you will need. Where, exactly is the challange, or risk, for older players running missions? You might ask, "Where is the risk for 0.0 alliance members mining or ratting in their allaince space", and while granted, the risk of a hostile warping in on them is small, due to scouts, the risk is still there and they can be killed and sink ISK from the game with their ship loss. Or the rats might switch targets in the case of the miners, and gank them before they warp out. There is risk, just not massive ammounts. ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.09.25 13:42:00 - [25] Quote: If they don't nerf missions slightly (move them into low sec space), Actually moving missions to low sec istnt a nerf due to higher lp/rewards:) Anyway still not high enough, boost lowsec missions:)
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.09.25 14:00:00 - [26] I don't get all those that whine that missions should be moved to low sec? You are not PvP'ers, because if you were, you would just attack some random alliance and have your fun, but you need the cluless (PvP wise) mission runners to feel worth anything. It is you who should get a grip and grow some courage. You can find plenty of targets in 0.0, but not so easy as the mission runners/miners. Where is your risk?
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.25 14:03:00 - [27] Edited by: Death Kill on 25/09/2006 14:02:58 Last night I did a lv3 angel extravaganza. The first level had zero loot, no seriously not a single npc dropped a can. The second level I got some miners1's and some small hull repairers + 100 units of small lead charges. The following stages I got some medium shieldbooster 1's and some medium energy transfers. Nerf missions indeed Dark Shikari>Death Kill, saying that anime is a fetish makes you racist.
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent	Posted - 2006.09.25 14:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 25/09/2006 14:02:58 Last night I did a lv3 angel extravaganza. The first level had zero loot, no seriously not a single npc dropped a can. The second level I got some miners1's and some small hull repairers + 100 units of small lead charges. The following stages I got some medium shieldbooster 1's and some medium energy transfers. Nerf missions indeed How much did you get in bounties and btw this is not a discussion of lvl 3 missions it's about lvl 4, which are overpowered in the the sense that there is no risk and pleny of isk to be made easily. I'M NOT CRAZY!! WRAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.25 14:21:00 - [29] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri How much did you get in bounties and btw this is not a discussion of lvl 3 missions it's about lvl 4, which are overpowered in the the sense that there is no risk and pleny of isk to be made easily. I made just under 3 million in bounties from a 5 stage mission. In regards to lv4's, there seams to be a discussion about nerfing missions across the board and regarding loot then I can tell you that lv4 missions doesnt offer proper loot either. Battleships still drop small shield boosters. Regarding risk vs reward, the whole argument about ratting 0.0 more risk than mission running in Empire is void. In 0.0 you can always be jumped by someone, in Empire you can always be war decced by someone. Anyone ratting in 0.0 who know what they are doing have no risk what so ever, just like agent runners have no risk either. Dark Shikari>Death Kill, saying that anime is a fetish makes you racist.
Sendraks	Posted - 2006.09.25 14:21:00 - [30] Originally by: Twilight Moon Yes, newer players might have problems with Missions. Granted, thats to be expected. They have neither the skills or experience of the misions previously to know whats coming. Agreed. Much like low sec, those first few run throughs of a mission are like a narrow high risk barrier that must be passed through to reach the profitable lands beyond. Lose a ship here though and it can set a new player back a few weeks at least. Originally by: Twilight Moon However, once they have run through them 2 or 3 times, or even just bothered to read on the several websites available that list exactly what you'll meet in missions and the order in what to do them, then the risk drops to near 0. Yes, they might disconnect, but thats an out of game problem, its not related to the difficulty of the mission itself. There are a lot of level 4 missions to get through and the first few times round it will take a while to complete them assuming the player isn't in an "easy mode" ship. It will be a few weeks at least for someone playing a good 5 hours every day to go through each mission 2 or 3 times. Many players can't spare that much time on a daily basis, so the learning curve will be much longer. Originally by: Twilight Moon You dont heed a faction fitted BS to do the missions. I never said you did. But you do need one to breeze through them "half-asleep" or at the speeds that make it possible ot earn biliions from them on a monthly basis. Originally by: Twilight Moon I've done them in a 1/2 arsed Dominix I threw together for a laugh when I was between corps. Once you've ran them a couple of times (its not as if they're randomised, which IMHO they should be), you know exactly what to shoot, when to shoot it and what order to shoot things in. You know the setup for your ship for each mission that will breeze through it, and you know exactly what tank you will need. Dominix is "easy mode" for missions. This is an established fact. Spare a thought for all those mission runners who don't run missions in that ship or the Raven and face a greater degree of difficulty. Originally by: Twilight Moon Where, exactly is the challange, or risk, for older players running missions? Indeed. But if you tailor a games difficulty entirely towards challenging those older players, you alienate the newer players. If you do that, Eve fails to grow. Though the growth of Eve could be argued to be something of a problem at this moment in time. Originally by: Twilight Moon You might ask, "Where is the risk for 0.0 alliance members mining or ratting in their allaince space", and while granted, the risk of a hostile warping in on them is small, due to scouts, the risk is still there and they can be killed and sink ISK from the game with their ship loss. Or the rats might switch targets in the case of the miners, and gank them before they warp out. There is risk, just not massive ammounts. So marginally more risk than doing level 4s, which in a busy high sec system, come with the acknowledged risks of lag and ctds.

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