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Karneh Vorous Reaver Inc	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:09:00 - [31] I think the real tradegy is that 0.0 now seems to only favor the Mega-Alliance. "Small" groups of 50-100 pilots can't expect to have a fighting chance at a 10/10 complex or any fruitful resources. I can remember running 10/10 complexes in the past but now it's a joke. If I show up to a complex it's camped by the established alliance and if I happen to be in that alliance the complex is already well farmed. It's a shame that they don't move from system to system making folks work to get them. I wish Ore did the same actually. When we only had 8000 people online, 0.0 was still acheivable by a small alliance. Now that we have 30,000 people, I think the Mega-Alliances have to fold from the inside versus an attack from an outside party. Suck out all the good Ore/Complexes from ASCN and BOB space and move it to Syndicate for about 2 months. Now that would be fun!!! Moving resources around only punishes the lazy player.
Dearwin Gallente Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:09:00 - [32] Remember one year ago? Things had seem settled, the major alliances entrenched and napped. Then look at six months ago relative to a year ago. Over half of the major powers suddenly didnt exist or were a shadow of their old selves with no power to speak of (or just sort of reformed). Like someone said in a thread much like this a week ago, let the nights get cold and the tensions rise. Im sure something exciting will happen, certainly did last winter, and that didnt have Kali.
DeathGrip Amarr Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:28:00 - [33] Edited by: DeathGrip on 26/09/2006 23:29:47 Originally by: mishkof Edited by: mishkof on 26/09/2006 22:32:08 With the servers the way they are I agree with the OP. Territroy is hard to take right now do to lagg alone. I know if I owned a dread I would think hard about whether I wanted to expose it to a 50/50 chance of dying along with the node. All the defender has to do is launch fighters and defending the POS has been complete. Fighters are not the win button VS dreads. A decent fitted dread can tank almost 100 fighters and the POS long as there is a few other dreads tanking the POS as well. Good Post Cyvok. Not sure I would have brought up the Ebay thing myself though.
c0rn1 Seraphin Technologies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:37:00 - [34] Originally by: CYVOK Yes ASCN takes advantage of our complexes, we fought hard to gain control of them and we do use the ISK for most of our bigger projects. Thats the differance. We build outposts and ships. We don't go ebay ISK or fit 5 guys with 2B iSK officer mods from empire. I might also add that 10/10 complexes are NOT the most profitable in EvE, 6/10's and 8/10's seem to hold that record. 10/10's are very unpredictiable and rearly drop loot worth more then 350M a day. You may think 350M is alot, but divide that between 5000 members or 1 outpost and its nothing. Sorry, Cyvok, but I have to disagree to the point of the 10/10 complexes. An Angel 10/10 complex has 5 stages. you get a 18th tier at the first stage, a 19th tier at 2nd. in the third stage u get 2y20th tier of the overseer and the docked mammoth and in the 4th stage you get 2x 21th tier of the overseer and the mega under frantic repair. In the 5th stage you get a 22th tier and a random faction loot drop or a mach bpc. due to the fact that the complex spawns thrice a day you have a CERTAIN loot of 3x500M per day if u do the last respawn an hour before downtime as well. otherwise a 2x500M per day only in overseer plus factional loot. regards x x x x x x x x x x x x x x -V- Diplomat -V- High Council Member Life's a waste of time ...
Evelyn Exe eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Ficti0n That some alliances are becoming too big, powerful and more importantly RICH to conquer now? I would ask why people are so keen to see alliances fail? To my mind alliances do some of the most interesting things in the game. Without alliances you would get no-one investing in building outposts, building titans, motherships etc. as no-one could secure the space needed to do so. Where would the drama and politics be without the alliances? Hi Ficti0n btw
Maria Ravenwind Gallente Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.27 00:23:00 - [36] This whole massive alliance part of the game is a direction that CCP have tried to move EVE towards. Look at factional warfare. Thats just going to broaden the possibilities. And with these new harvestable gas clouds that are required for the new combat boosters, Alliances will fight over those too. It's even in the new blog. In my opinion, I think these alliances make EVE what it is. No where else do you see these kinds of dynamics in a game. Sure, theres balancing issues, but imagine the amount of information that they are trying to manage. It's obscene! As long as Empire is not too dramatically affected by the Alliances and their wars, it's all okay. I hate my Exclamation mark! I Am No Alt.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.27 01:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Mistress Suffering Actually with good leadership, alliances can last many many years. Mostly it just depends on whether someone with the skills and interest is available when a time for transition occurs. EVE simply isn't going to be around long enough that its strongest alliances are doomed to failure. They could easily outlast it. I like this post the most. Alliances will always rise and fall, but now there are tools and goals. Forming an alliance in the old days was one of basic mutual defense and nothing more. Several people showed that it could be done for offense as well. And the people in charge of the top four most successful alliances ingame have three years worth of experience behind them. D2 has ex-PA and ex-XETIC people in charge. BoB has ex-NORAD, ex-FA in charge. LV is ex-CA. ASCN is ex-XETIC. So you can pretty much say they've seen the traps and are carefully trying to steer clear. You're better off doing something about it, than trying to live for the day when ASCN dies (or whoever). Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.09.27 01:23:00 - [38] I think we'll ahve to wait until CYVOK or Molle get bored with EvE and hang it up before either of them crumble from the inside, unless they just flat out get bored. And it will be tough for ASCN to get bored since they enjoy building stuff so much. Targets may be hard to find sometimes, but asteroids and factories are always there. FREEE is Recruiting
ProphetGuru Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.27 05:40:00 - [39] I'm sure Cyvok or Molle would both disagree with that comment. THose two characters are strong leaders, but the reality is, in alliances the size of BoB and ACSN the leadership is still part of a team. Ships, regions, outposts, titans complexes etc etc mean nothing without good people. We have a ceo team of 6 people who set a direction and all of them are integral to the success of BoB. We have directors in our corps who are the day to day go to guys/gals and the alliance would stall without them. And we have a great group of guys who "get it done" when asked. BoB wouldn't work without all of those elements clicking. I am not familiar with ACSN internally, however I am willing to bet isk that the same can be said for them. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.27 05:48:00 - [40] Edited by: mishkof on 27/09/2006 05:53:31 Originally by: DeathGrip Fighters are not the win button VS dreads. A decent fitted dread can tank almost 100 fighters and the POS long as there is a few other dreads tanking the POS as well. Good Post Cyvok. Not sure I would have brought up the Ebay thing myself though. I referencing the fact that when they crash the node they are........ I said nothing of combat abilities. There was large amounts of evidence that site the releasing of lots of fighters as the reason the nodes crashed. Including the GM's themselves. It is quite clear to me what happens to dreads attacking a POS when the node crashes. Of course I am just speaking from experience in 9UY recently. This happened on many occasions. In fact IMO that is why there was no clear cut winner and it ended in the way it did. If you can reference any battles of that magnitude after the Dragon patch that refute this I will certainly take that into consideration with regards to my opinion on the matter. The stalemate stated above is IMO why large chunks of territory changing hands isnt feasable at this point. IE stagnation, and the rich getting richer.
Wild Rho Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.27 07:46:00 - [41] What we are seeing right now is the evolution of alliances into somthing approaching a proper Empire. I always felt the early days of watching alliances club each other over the head was a learning period for many people to find out what worked and WHO worked. It was only going to be a matter of time before a group of people finally got it right and now we are starting to see the next stage. Granted these superpowers are pretty much impossible to shift by any of the smaller alliances these days (mainly due to the difference in manpower and logistics), however the other superpowers still pose a threat and internal issues cannot be underestimated. It's already been shown several times over the course of Eves 0.0 history that internal difficulties can cause an alliance to collapse far faster than any external threat (the cause of which is largely irrelevent in the end). Nothing lasts forever, especially in Eve where huge changes can happen overnight. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Erynion StarHunt	Posted - 2006.09.27 07:56:00 - [42] "That some alliances are becoming too big, powerful and more importantly RICH to conquer now? " - Why conquer when U can join ? All those little ( 50..100 ) player corporations and alliances can be joined by a great leader. And through his/hers teammates leading them new BIG alliance can be born. It would take a lot of effort and convincing corps to forgive and forget some grudges for grater cause but it is managable. ISK farming can be done many ways. 10/10 complexes or not. ISK is not the issue of forming a great alliance. Problem is little corp's CEO's egos. But anything is negotiatable. And in the end there are those who do not want to be part of big politics. They have too little time in RL to play eve anyway and don't want to sacrifice it for ISK farming for someone else. Or patroling. Those corps will be there for ever and the good part is - they usually don't whine. To the topic. I don't think alliances can be too big or powerful. As long as CCP makes it so that player alliance can never be threat to the empire ( for carebares). Big alliances are rich - but they can not conquer everything. There is not enough players online to hold their ground. Lot of ISK means they can invest into new toys before others. Using them takes good and experienced players and those are lot harder to find than ISK. ---------- FOR SALE: Parachute. Used once. Never opend. Little stained. Eve-mail for details.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:08:00 - [43] Alliances whilst often seemingly invulnerable and unassailable to the onlooker, are inherently subject to the vagaries of the human beings that create and run them. Every alliance is only as strong as its weakest link and that is the human infrastructure that props them up. It only takes one catalysing event to initiate a domino effect that could be the cause for an alliance failing. That doesn't mean that the powerful alliances will fall, but at the same time there is every chance that something could happen which could bring the most powerful entity to its knees. Thats why its interesting IMO to keep an eye on alliances and watch out for tell tale signs that all is not well, though often these signs are imperceptable even to the alliance itself, and only identifiable with the benefit of hindsight. Nobody can say with absolute certainty that this or that alliance will be still going strong 2 months down the line. If they do, they are lying.
Assur Minmatar Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:05:00 - [44] All I have to say is Curse alliance. At one point one of the most powerfull alliance in game. Held multiple regions and fought effectively an onslaught of many hostiles attacking them. They held out a long time but as we all know Curse Alliance is no more due to various reasons. Many large empires meet their fate and history has a tendency to repeat itself. One of the reasons many empires fall is leadership. Since its a game people get bored of it and leave. If leadership leaves and the new leadership is not up to the challenge it means the end of the alliance. It's as easy as that. My second example is the roman empire. Extremely powerful for a long time but conflict within in combination with outside agressors sealed its fate. I guess what I'm saying is. Sit back and enjoy the show because everything will inevitably come to an end.
XoPhyte Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:15:00 - [45] Great read (no smacking yet which is nice). I think large alliances such as BOB, ASCN and LV bring another dimension to the game which would not otherwise exist. It has the feeling like the cold war all over again though in Eve. The politics, the constant building of resources for those "what if" scenarios etc. You see this with the Titan. Yeah we got the titan done first, but we know several others are right behind us. The same could be said with nuclear weapons in rl. No alliance could withstand the onslaught of all the other players, so I don't think that any one alliance is to powerful. And every alliance relies on every player in game. We all have our trade routes in empire for low end minerals, we all trade with other alliances, even enemies, for items such as reactions or ore needed for the production of T2 equipment. CCP made the game where you cannot be 100% self sufficient in only a few regions, so they force us to work (even if unknowingly) with our enemies and everybody else in Eve. So in my mind there is no such thing as an insignificant player. A full onslaught is not the only way to take down an alliance. Internal strife is almost always the most threatening enemy of all.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:25:00 - [46] Originally by: ProphetGuru I'm sure Cyvok or Molle would both disagree with that comment. THose two characters are strong leaders, but the reality is, in alliances the size of BoB and ACSN the leadership is still part of a team. Ships, regions, outposts, titans complexes etc etc mean nothing without good people. We have a ceo team of 6 people who set a direction and all of them are integral to the success of BoB. We have directors in our corps who are the day to day go to guys/gals and the alliance would stall without them. And we have a great group of guys who "get it done" when asked. BoB wouldn't work without all of those elements clicking. I am not familiar with ACSN internally, however I am willing to bet isk that the same can be said for them. I wasn't implying that they would crumble if one of them quit EvE, more that it would have to happen before there was even a possibility of it. FREEE is Recruiting
Lunarra Paradox v2.0 Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:55:00 - [47] Indeed NO empire live forever. Any alliances that grow to fast or too big will colapse on itself at a point in time. The bigger you get, the more people you have, the more chances people will have their own agendas or will simply desagree. I hate comparing EvE to RL put history shows that empires never last by the simply fact they are made by individuals and EvE empires are also made by individuals and on top of that without the real life bounderies. So yeah those big guys might be there for a while, but not forever.
Skooney Gallente Universal Agencies Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:11:00 - [48] The one thing I like about the "superpowers" is their ability to change the dynamic of the game. They can add stability to regions, they can change the balance of power, and who else was going to create a Titan? They offer up, and have the ability to explore all options and avenues that EVE has to offer. Also as one of the other people posted, they are creating a HUGE ecconomy that every one regardless of Alliance, Corporation or Age in game can acces and/or contribute to, even if you are un aware of it. Now lets see your Titan BoB. Universal Agencies www.rlelectric.ca/ua.htm
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:43:00 - [49] Originally by: Evelyn Exe I would ask why people are so keen to see alliances fail? Personally, I think it's to make things interesting again. Chaos good. Order bad. Quote: To my mind alliances do some of the most interesting things in the game. I'd hardly call POS warfare interesting. Sorry, but after the first time the novelty goes bye-bye. (And that was only a small POS) Quote: Without alliances you would get no-one investing in building outposts, building titans, motherships etc. as no-one could secure the space needed to do so. Perhaps. But outposts, titans and motherships are self-serving and bring nothing to the rest of the game populance. The game wouldn't suffer in the least if those things were not constructed. And securing space for their own private use does what for the game now, other than stifle the growth of younger corporations and alliances? Quote: Where would the drama and politics be without the alliances? It was there before there were alliances. The advent of alliances simply condensed the drama. Don't read too much into this. As a whole, I like alliances. MY biggest issue is that everything is too damn calm. I know Kali is coming and all, but I'd love to see the entire alliance map showing only "contested" and nothing else. +IOI?
Constantinee Caldari Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.27 19:58:00 - [50] Not all alliances will last forever. One day bob will die one day ascn will die. Its all a matter of time. but as long as they are still here...lets keep shooting they are not stopping us from doing that. Want a Cheap sig?
Assur Minmatar Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:52:00 - [51] Originally by: Constantinee Not all alliances will last forever. One day bob will die one day ascn will die. Its all a matter of time. but as long as they are still here...lets keep shooting they are not stopping us from doing that. Concord does... I think concord is an evil alliance and should be crushed.
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:56:00 - [52] Originally by: Assur Originally by: Constantinee Not all alliances will last forever. One day bob will die one day ascn will die. Its all a matter of time. but as long as they are still here...lets keep shooting they are not stopping us from doing that. Concord does... I think concord is an evil alliance and should be crushed. CONCORD uses logon traps and other exploits. +IOI?
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Idaeus Originally by: Assur Originally by: Constantinee Not all alliances will last forever. One day bob will die one day ascn will die. Its all a matter of time. but as long as they are still here...lets keep shooting they are not stopping us from doing that. Concord does... I think concord is an evil alliance and should be crushed. CONCORD uses logon traps and other exploits. qft. they had titans before everyone! "how could they jump all their pwing ships alltogether at the same place?!" Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Erynion StarHunt	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:54:00 - [54] Edited by: Erynion on 27/09/2006 21:54:27 Originally by: Idaeus Quote: Without alliances you would get no-one investing in building outposts, building titans, motherships etc. as no-one could secure the space needed to do so. Perhaps. But outposts, titans and motherships are self-serving and bring nothing to the rest of the game populance. The game wouldn't suffer in the least if those things were not constructed. And securing space for their own private use does what for the game now, other than stifle the growth of younger corporations and alliances? Game itself would not suffer. But if players can achieve all goals as solo players it gets boring really quickly. This is why titans/outposts etx are important. You have a long time goal to work to. A great thing to do. And you have to work for it. With Other players. That makes this game #1. And hey - if things are too calm - create some havoc. Snoop out BoB's ( example ) trade routes. Hit them with some ingame friends fast and turn away to attack in other route. And so on. And most imporantly try to blame ACSN for it ;) Or something similar. ---------- FOR SALE: Parachute. Used once. Never opend. Little stained. Eve-mail for details.
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:03:00 - [55] Originally by: Erynion And hey - if things are too calm - create some havoc. Snoop out BoB's ( example ) trade routes. Hit them with some ingame friends fast and turn away to attack in other route. Did that. BoB kinda hates when you shoot their command ships. I never saw local fill so fast :/ +IOI?
analev godder The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:55:00 - [56] Originally by: Omeega Edited by: Omeega on 26/09/2006 18:38:42 In my humble opinion having a titan is not a win button. Let's take ASCN per example - they are mainly good at production (what I mean is that they weren't formed for the love of doing Player Versus Player). So I think it's just like giving a gun to a child. With a bit of luck he'll kill somebody otherwise, he might hurt himself or just use it as a stick to rub his back. Now when we talk about some BOB members well yeah, titan is a threat. This time the pistol fell in professional's hands. But still, I still think determination is what a successfull alliance/corp/member needs to suceed into EVE - not only his wallet or his toys. Valid points you make, I find myself suprised in agreeing with you. A titan is not a I-Win button its only a new tool to achieve goals. It's bigger than what we know today but just as vulnerable to destruction. The fact that ASCN and BOB are both strong and powerfull alliances but yet so different only proves that the sandbox CCP created is one that matches lots off different gaming styles. It only shows that those 2 alliances are determined to accomplish their respective goals no matter what. The downfall of every powerhouse is internal struggle. Some events may accelerate the downfall but will never be the cause. So it will happen with BoB, ASCN, LV, D2 and all future powers. The alledged power,wallet and toys are a direct result of dedication from top to bottom, not the cause from it. hell never tought i'd agree with you.
NeoTech	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Masta Killa Many or few, titans or frigs, they're all nubs crawl back to your safespot
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:31:00 - [58] I have been here for a long time now And i can say all good things come to an end. i have seen many very good corp`s alliances die off. this will alaways be the case and other alliances will rise.
Erynion StarHunt The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:33:00 - [59] Originally by: analev godder The downfall of every powerhouse is internal struggle. Some events may accelerate the downfall but will never be the cause. So it will happen with BoB, ASCN, LV, D2 and all future powers. True. And one of those events can be social engineering. Psychological games. Not harassing but merly suggesting that things could be run otherwise. Joining one of their corps and spreading the word that current leaders are not the best ones. This has to be done smart and it takes time but it will work. And it would be good to have some unoffical friends backing up your words. Example : You say that freigthers are not protected enough - and your friends strike hard and fast somewhere. You get my idea. ---------- FOR SALE: Parachute. Used once. Never opend. Little stained. Eve-mail for details.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:00:00 - [60] Well the coming period will deffo be intresting for all the alliances , peace has lasted for quite some time and eveyrone is itchy trigger finger and now new toys are available it is only a matter of time and a spark that a huge all our war that will start and will be even more epic than the GNW. "There is no such thing as innocence , only different degrees of guilt"

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