ABC's .. in a decent sized fleet perhaps , especially if mobility isn't an issue , but in small skirmishes ABC's can be more useful

ABCs have no tackle defense what so ever, ontop of a bad tank to sig ratio which means anything and I mean anything gets within scram range you're dead.

battleships have heavy neuts, heavy tanks, more slots and drones.

Talos's have light drones, and besides you would have the sense too bring some tackle with you

Here's the deal. When a gang is looking through it's hangar looking for a fleet to go roam with, they go with squishtars. Super squishy tanks, but the average risk averse eve tool just wants to drop his dps and kite out to safety. The problem with a BS is that if you undock in one you could lose it. There is a lot of focus on looking and being 'good' on the kb end of things and not a lot of emphasis on risking stuff and having fun doing it.

Your suggestion to buff RR kind of underlines this. Keep the ship as is and improve its survivability. Your average RR domi ball right now can dominate a comperable size squishtar fleet. Buffing them just unbalances a module and creates different problems. If you increased RR module effectiveness folks won't mothball their squishtars or their T3 and all hop in BS. It's a big slow expensive ship that is easy to hold down once catch you it.

Risk aversion is why BS don't see more use. There are just so many ships w/ greater survivability and mobility out there. Examining the standard cloaky wh T3 fleet. Their dps is borderline pathetic, BUT they are easy to keep alive w/ the 5 guardians/bassi that came along for the ride. Folks aren't going to just give that up.

Ishtars are picked over BS because they can drop sentries and run. Take the sentries away and they become a balanced HAC and they will return to normal status. T3 monster tank w/ molehill sig radius is why they get the nod over BS.

Buffing BS RR would just unbalance other parts of the game. It won't encourage BS fleets to become popular.

Scan ress and warp speed are the deciding factors, and agility is to bad.

I have a megathron that warps and aligns faster than cruisers.

i'd love too know when the T3 cruiser nerf is happening .. march, april, may?...
and if we get any input at all .. not much of that happening lately

I have an IQ of 163 and an 'average' peen of 10.328 inches.

Oh... sorry, I thought this was going in a different direction.


He's still right Baltec1. Of course you can make your mega do amazing things, but at a price.

I can put a higs rig on my mega and make it so slow that you wouldn't notice I was getting away.

Now all 3 of us have correct statements. I'm just not sure what you and I are trying to prove.

It takes over 100 bombs to kill our megathron fleet.

Actually, under the best circumstances (with max boosts) it takes 165 bombs to kill a baltec megathron with it's micro warp off and about 103 with MWDs on. It drops to 69 bomb sans MWD and a few less with MWD off without boosts. Also, this assumes that you're using max boosts, which is not the case if you're using t3 boosters.

For the best case scenario you're looking at 28 waves of bombs of six bombs. For a medium size bomb group launching staggered 4 wave runs you'd need about 7 runs to completely wipe a mega fleet, if they keep their wing, squad, and fleet boosters alive the entire fight. Absolute worst case, a single large bombing run could wipe your entire fleet.

Compare that with say, a tengu under bast case circumstances, which takes 593 bombs to destroy with t2 gear, or an eagle which takes about 315 bombs. All of this also ignores what's happening to your megathrons when you get hit by a bomb run, too. One of the biggest advantages of bombing is that it augments the ability of a DPS wing to chew through primaries for two reasons. First, it lowers the EHP pool and critical mass of DPS required to alpha an opposing fleet and second bomb waves break discipline. Each successive bomb wave makes the problem worse, and under continuous pressure your fleet will fall apart.

We know this, everyone knows this. It doesn't fit your narrative about being a special snowflake though. Like your arguments centered on a megathron that tracks as well as electron blasters (it doesn't because of math) or your mega that aligns and warps as fast as cruisers (this one can happen, but it's not doing much else,) it's just a red herring. You never post any fits or anything else, just some quip about how you can do it and no one else can.

We never lost a baltec fleet to bombs nor any other armour battleship fleet. If they are so vulnerable then why is it that we use Domi fleet as our sledgehammer?

Go find where I said nobody can do what I do with battleships.

Feel free to explain how exactly Using a single rig slot and two nano reduces a ship to being useless.

It kinda ends up being go armor or go home tho. It takes over a hundred bombs to destroy a baltec but can the same be said about any non-armor boat?

Thats not entirely a battleship only problem and more of an issue with bombs themselves. I would love to see heavy sheild doctrines return but at the same time we all know it would become Mealstroms or go home again.

an arty problem then

Nah, alpha will always be king and the maelstrom does it very well. As said, the biggest problem is the t3s and sentries. Deal with them and the entire ship lineup becomes healthier. Bombs could do with a tweek but it needs a great deal of care as they should still be viable.

We never lost a baltec fleet to bombs nor any other armour battleship fleet. If they are so vulnerable then why is it that we use Domi fleet as our sledgehammer?

Go find where I said nobody can do what I do with battleships.

Feel free to explain how exactly Using a single rig slot and two nano reduces a ship to being useless.

Go find where I said nobody can do what I do with battleships.

Thats not entirely a battleship only problem and more of an issue with bombs themselves. I would love to see heavy sheild doctrines return but at the same time we all know it would become Mealstroms or go home again.

yeah so reduce the alpha for some RoF , maybe a few other tweaks with the ship and then other ships might get used more.

So you want me to quote basically every reply you've ever posted in a battleship thread? That the problem is the pilots? That people aren't innovative enough? The implication here is that you are innovative and no-one else is, in a game where we're now talking about hyperdunking, petes, pos bowling exploits, wrecking balls, and all of the other crazy stuff that follows from the sandbox experience.

yeah so reduce the alpha for some RoF , maybe a few other tweaks with the ship and then other ships might get used more.

Then you lose the thing that makes arty unique. Honestly the ship and weapon are fine as we do have a hard counter to it. Sheild battleships dont see much use in the large scale bloodbaths of sov fights but they do just fine in smaller scale fights that dont see bomber wings.

Two nanos on a mega is a naked align time of 8 seconds, which is about 2-3 seconds longer than most naked t1 cruisers, and a single hyperspatial is a warp speed of 2.4 au/sec.

Tell the whole story about implants if you're going to imply their use. If you actually want a megathron to warp and align as fast as cruisers that aren't using nanos it's more like 3 nanos and 3 hyperspatials.

Even then, are you following primaries or applying DPS as quickly as the cruisers in your gang? What happens when you try to make up for these deficiencies too?

Go find where I said nobody can do what I do with battleships.

Battleships are a *very* complicated issue that can't be resolved by simple nerfs/buffs. The problem is systemic and not related to the hulls themselves. At least, not completely. Some of the hulls are actually really attractive for small scale fleets now, after tiericide.

The #1 problem is that other ships are more attractive. Ishtar, I'm looking at you.

The #2 problem hasn't been mentioned yet - escalation. BS fleets are big shiny targets that look great on killboards. BS also have limited mobility, and are pretty easy to lock down in a bubble. This combination brings out the cynos. Goodbye battleship fleet.

With a BS (or even BC's), you commit to fighting or dying. When your enemy can hotdrop a cap fleet on you, that's a commitment that's not worth making. With the power projection nerfs, this may actually be addressed already. We can't honestly tell though because IshtarGäó.

Let's keep things amicable guys, we're here for the BS discussion! (Not directed at you Ines)

It's an interesting thing you suggest, Ines. If I'm reading it right, you think battleships are an appealing target to cruisers and caps because, while battleships can somewhat effectively combat the cruisers or capitals targeting them, they lack the 'true' mobility of cruisers or the cyno-mobility of capitals, leaving them with an awkward disadvantage. Thus, while their damage and tanking ability is commensurate with their cost, they end up being something of a 'white whale' for more-mobile fleets to tackle and destroy, or avoid.