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Blavish
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
0
   |
Posted - 2015.01.28 16:05:35 -
[1] - Quote
According to the CCP minutes drones might have a reload timer similar to guns.
The thing about drones is they already have a disadvantage from guns because they first have to return from the target if you want to swap them, then they have to return back to the target you want attacked.
This is of course different with sentries but lights-heavy drones would be very bad if you have to wait for them to return and then wait for a reload before you can swap drones.
Bad idea |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
7673
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 16:24:57 -
[2] - Quote
Let's see...
- Drones ignore most instructions.
- They target whoever they want.
- They attack whenever they feel like.
- They switch targets at random
- They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?).
Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Skyla Braveheart
Drekar Inferno
Requiem Eternal
7
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 16:30:27 -
[3] - Quote
yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/ |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6136
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 16:52:24 -
[4] - Quote
If they do to the drones what they did to rapid light missile launchers then that one change alone just nuked every drone boat in the fleet.
There needs to be a boon for such a thing, something to justify some "prep time" needed to launch drones.
How about giving drones module and rig slots and let us change out the ammo? I can see a whole new world of drone modules and rigs open up; smaller versions of the small modules and rigs perhaps.
If they just go "hurrrr durrr nerf ze drones put in arbitrary wait time hurrr durrr" I might start thinking CCP got hold of some really rotten (or maybe not rotten enough) Harkarl.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Hibernator X
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
21
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:01:49 -
[5] - Quote
I don't understand why they can't see that the issue is with the bonuses on drone ships and how they scale with large drones on cruisers... The problem does not lie with the drones themselves. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
80
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:22:59 -
[6] - Quote
Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/
Interesting as I was having the exact same problem. 5x350mm rails should not out-dps 5 sentries on a drone boat, yet that's what was happening. |
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
161
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:28:40 -
[7] - Quote
Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/
Sounds like D-rectile dysfunction to me.
And btw ratting with drones is how 95% of capsuleers make their money.
AND.. And.. and..... Nerf the Ishtar drone bay ffs. I'd luv to know where all those large drones are being stored on a CRUISER. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
The Irukandji.
1894
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:37:12 -
[8] - Quote
12 years and CCP still can't get drones right. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19594
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:52:30 -
[9] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:12 years and CCP still can't get drones right.
At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
|
Dracones
Tarsis Inc
41
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 18:59:55 -
[10] - Quote
I guess it depends on what exactly they're trying to do with whatever reload mechanic they're thinking about. I will say right now PvE drone aggro is meaningless when it comes to sentries unless you're AFK. You just pull them in and re-deploy when they take fire.
I'd be fine with that getting nerfed and making drones more of a target if logi was easier to use on them. |
Hicksimus
Volatile Instability
Resonance.
532
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 19:38:09 -
[11] - Quote
Step 1: Make Large/Sentry drones a Battleship weapon
Step 2: Stop giving cruisers huge drone bays
Step 3: Profit
Reload time is O.K. I suppose, lost a Worm to a Stratios yesterday which was partly from poor cap management and party from his ability to spend 5 minutes switching drones while I whittled away at them. Though I still think a reload timer makes very little sense given the current use of drones which is to have very fast cruisers belting out Battleship DPS while kiting.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
480
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 22:06:37 -
[12] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Ptraci wrote:12 years and CCP still can't get drones right. At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
ashley Eoner
399
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 22:10:27 -
[13] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:Step 1: Make Large/Sentry drones a Battleship weapon
Step 2: Stop giving cruisers huge drone bays
Step 3: Profit
Reload time is O.K. I suppose, lost a Worm to a Stratios yesterday which was partly from poor cap management and party from his ability to spend 5 minutes switching drones while I whittled away at them. Though I still think a reload timer makes very little sense given the current use of drones which is to have very fast cruisers belting out Battleship DPS while kiting.
You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.
I don't get why they are trying to balance drones around one ship thus breaking drones for every other ship instead of just re-balancing that ship. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
410
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 00:21:23 -
[14] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Ptraci wrote:12 years and CCP still can't get drones right. At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out?
You need to improve your cat training skills.
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19614
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 00:24:35 -
[15] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out?
More like attack your feet, your friends feet, your mothers feet, each other, the wall, the curtains, the couch, the spot where the sun is shining on the rug, the bug on the wall, the pull string for the ceiling fan, the newspaper... pretty much everything else but the one thing theyre told or allowed to attack.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
410
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 00:27:53 -
[16] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out? More like attack your feet, your friends feet, your mothers feet, each other, the wall, the curtains, the couch, the spot where the sun is shining on the rug, the bug on the wall, the pull string for the ceiling fan, the newspaper... pretty much everything else but the one thing theyre told or allowed to attack.
And I thought the last guy was bad.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
481
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 00:30:13 -
[17] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out? More like attack your feet, your friends feet, your mothers feet, each other, the wall, the curtains, the couch, the spot where the sun is shining on the rug, the bug on the wall, the pull string for the ceiling fan, the newspaper... pretty much everything else but the one thing theyre told or allowed to attack. And I thought the last guy was bad. Dogs treat their owners like gods, cats remember when they were gods and had slaves.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Mackenzie Nolen
XYJAX
31
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 00:43:21 -
[18] - Quote
I dunno... I quite enjoy drone users mocking missile users for their zero-skill weapon choice despite drones requiring even less skill. The glitches just are kind of... karma. Don't you think?
~ signed, the gunpvp master race |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29619
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 03:26:45 -
[19] - Quote
Drones are a scourge. They apply damage effectively, but they're no better than bombs, mines, and defender missiles.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Serene Repose
2146
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 04:14:06 -
[20] - Quote
Funny. I guess drones do all this stuff if you don't control them. I guess folks let their drones out, set their expectations high, then harvest disappointment and frustration. If you had a pack of hunting dogs and you let them loose expecting them to bring back nothing but the silver mink, you'd be saying the same thing.
I've never had this experience with drones. But, then, I control mine, like I control my dogs. I train my dogs - highly. I command my dogs. I don't allow them to "think" for themselves. I'm the superior species. I do the thinking. Just so, I don't allow my drones to think for themselves. I tell them when and what to attack, one attack at a time. I whistle them in. They come. What's the problem again?
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
|
Lister Vindaloo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 04:40:30 -
[21] - Quote
At EDU last year CCP Rise showed data that implied drones may get nerfed, personally I think drones should be left as they are for dedicated drone boats, add a reload timer or control limitations for hulls that use drones as secondary dps. But for dedicated drone boat pilots who actively target and direct their drones it would be a complete waste of all the skill points it takes to fly them well |
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
492
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 05:41:13 -
[22] - Quote
The only ones I can see as potentially overpowered in this way are Sentries - not "drones" but just that class of drones. |
Serene Repose
2148
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 08:29:58 -
[23] - Quote
Never trust a guy with a steel plate on his head. You never know what's under it.
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
|
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14720
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 08:34:03 -
[24] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:
I don't get why they are trying to balance drones around one ship thus breaking drones for every other ship instead of just re-balancing that ship.
Its not just one ship.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Anthar Thebess
844
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 09:59:30 -
[25] - Quote
Normal drones are fine.
They need to fly to a target, so it takes time to do it, and they can be killed before getting to target.
Only change that could put some new life into normal drones are heavy ones , more DPS or 20mb could help them to become more useful.
Sentry drones,
Here we have issues mostly to hulls that abuse range bonus of the drones.
- Dominix
- Ishthar
- Rattlesnake ( to some extend , no range bonus makes this ship somewhat balanced)
- Carrier (dps or range is not 100% issue , but way you combine multi milion ehp, remote reps , and ability to store few thousand of sentry drones)
Fighters / Fighter bombers.
They are almost fine.
Real issue is only to fighters assigned from mother ship.
You can assign few thousand DPS flying 4000 m/s and following enemies in warp, while your mothership is almost fully safe near pos shield ).
|
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
697
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 11:38:30 -
[26] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:Step 1: Make Large/Sentry drones a Battleship weapon
Step 2: Stop giving cruisers huge drone baysbandwidth
Step 3: Profit
That might work a wee bit better, especially if the bandwidth of heavies was dropped slightly.
Cruisers with large bays are great for solo / exploring, just so long as the bandwidth controls how much can be flown.
Yeah, I know you can play games with discarding drones and releasing a new flight but wouldn't bandwidth controls help with that too? |
Hicksimus
Volatile Instability
Resonance.
532
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 11:55:47 -
[27] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:
You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.
But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much.
Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
|
Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation
The Kadeshi
118
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 12:45:31 -
[28] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out? More like attack your feet, your friends feet, your mothers feet, each other, the wall, the curtains, the couch, the spot where the sun is shining on the rug, the bug on the wall, the pull string for the ceiling fan, the newspaper... pretty much everything else but the one thing theyre told or allowed to attack.
Nonono, that's Goons your're talking about.
Our kittens are so well behaved they only attack each other on the bad a 4 am. |
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation
The Kadeshi
119
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 12:53:48 -
[29] - Quote
Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/
so you have to keep asigning targets (whats the issue here?), or are you complaining that you cant afk rat because of this issue?
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
|
Signal11th
1657
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:06:41 -
[30] - Quote
Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated
Northern Associates.
75
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:07:43 -
[31] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Let's see... - Drones ignore most instructions. - They target whoever they want. - They attack whenever they feel like. - They switch targets at random - They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?). Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at. Mr Epeen
Sigh, just because you can't control your own drones, doesn't mean everyone is the same. lol. 
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated
Northern Associates.
75
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:08:34 -
[32] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.
Shhhhh ... they need to justify their jobs with something...
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
|
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation
The Kadeshi
120
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:16:08 -
[33] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.
because maybe they want people to use other ships instead of the same old sh!t because it works better than everything else? sometimes its nice to change, nerf the ishtar because its getting boring now :P
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
|
Signal11th
1657
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:24:44 -
[34] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it. because maybe they want people to use other ships instead of the same old sh!t because it works better than everything else? sometimes its nice to change, nerf the ishtar because its getting boring now :P
you did read my post I assume?
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
|
Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation
The Kadeshi
121
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:37:50 -
[35] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it. because maybe they want people to use other ships instead of the same old sh!t because it works better than everything else? sometimes its nice to change, nerf the ishtar because its getting boring now :P you did read my post I assume or was it a quick flick through and a single solitary neuron fired up after recognising the words NERF and NO and you had to scribble something down?
yeah i missed the last line and realised lol :P
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
|
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
366
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 13:38:09 -
[36] - Quote
Desimus Maximus wrote:AND.. And.. and..... Nerf the Ishtar drone bay ffs. I'd luv to know where all those large drones are being stored on a CRUISER.
Well they're being stored in the drone bay obviously...
And given that the ship is what? 250m long (and high) I really doubt that it's excessively difficult to find a 7 meter cube somewhere in there. |
Agent Unknown
Night Theifs
DamnedNation
9
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 15:54:56 -
[37] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:
You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.
But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much. Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc.
Combat Battlecruisers. 
But, I agree that something needs to be done with certain drone boats to bring them more in line with other ships of the same class. Nerfing damage bonuses or bandwidth might be a good start, but it's all a very delicate balance. |
ashley Eoner
400
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:07:24 -
[38] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:
You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.
But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much. Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc.
Now you're just being ridiculous.
If you can't out dps an ishtar at 120 KM range while having a bigger tank in a BS then you're doing it wrong.
The ishtar pilot has to sacrifice a LOT of something to be hitting at 120km usually both tank and DPS. At the very least DPS takes a nasty hit compared to BSes.
So no you're not going to be doing BS level dps at 120 KM while still having a good tank in an ishtar. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5938
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:23:44 -
[39] - Quote
So....
Drones only fire a limited number of volleys before they have to return to the drone bay for reloading.
Sentry drones get terrible sensor strength to nerf their quick deployment/target switching.
Fighters and fighter bombers suffer from both of the above.
As a carrot, drones(and fighters) can now be fitted to allow a choice between offensive/defensive/propulsion/sustainability.
They also use Sleeper AI on the drones to make them more efficient acting in a group.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
Skyla Braveheart
Drekar Inferno
Requiem Eternal
11
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:29:18 -
[40] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/ so you have to keep asigning targets (whats the issue here?), or are you complaining that you cant afk rat because of this issue?
uh..neither. i dont afk. my issue was they start attacking..i watch them attack..then they just start to sit there, and dont do anything. the target -was not- destroyed yet. they just stopped and i had to tell them AGAIN to attack it. so because of that the cruiser was out tanking their dps because they would -stop- attacking |
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:53:20 -
[41] - Quote
This is why there are so many people using Ishtars now.
Because drones are at a disadvantage.
Right.
If fights turn heavily favored to one ship the game is imbalanced. |
ashley Eoner
401
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 20:42:23 -
[42] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:This is why there are so many people using Ishtars now.
Because drones are at a disadvantage.
Right.
If fights turn heavily favored to one ship the game is imbalanced.
So drones are clearly overpowered because one drone boat out of all of them is preferred for specific activities...
Well by that metric every single weapons system is overpowered as they are all preferred for specific activities/situations...
What I find funny is you see one ship being really popular for specific activities and instead of investigating the hull bonus or the variety of variables that causes that popularity you decide instead to blame the weapon system. That weapon system of course for some reason doesn't extend in popularity to many other activities let alone many other ships.
|
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 20:50:03 -
[43] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Sugar Smacks wrote:This is why there are so many people using Ishtars now.
Because drones are at a disadvantage.
Right.
If fights turn heavily favored to one ship the game is imbalanced. So drones are clearly overpowered because one drone boat out of all of them is preferred for specific activities... Well by that metric every single weapons system is overpowered as they are all preferred for specific activities/situations... What I find funny is you see one ship being really popular for specific activities and instead of investigating the hull bonus or the variety of variables that causes that popularity you decide instead to blame the weapon system. That weapon system of course for some reason doesn't extend in popularity to many other activities let alone many other ships.
Good luck selling your argument when people clearly don't use 90% of ships. |
ashley Eoner
401
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 21:07:18 -
[44] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:Sugar Smacks wrote:This is why there are so many people using Ishtars now.
Because drones are at a disadvantage.
Right.
If fights turn heavily favored to one ship the game is imbalanced. So drones are clearly overpowered because one drone boat out of all of them is preferred for specific activities... Well by that metric every single weapons system is overpowered as they are all preferred for specific activities/situations... What I find funny is you see one ship being really popular for specific activities and instead of investigating the hull bonus or the variety of variables that causes that popularity you decide instead to blame the weapon system. That weapon system of course for some reason doesn't extend in popularity to many other activities let alone many other ships. Good luck selling your argument when people clearly don't use 90% of ships. Yeah when I went to jita all I saw were ishtars. Man I went mining the other day but I couldn't because the belts were full of ishtars eating all the rocks..
I tried to run a courier contract but all the ishtar pilots snagged them up before I could :(
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
5727
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 21:35:37 -
[45] - Quote
Desimus Maximus wrote:Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/ Sounds like D-rectile dysfunction to me. And btw ratting with drones is how 95% of capsuleers make their money. AND.. And.. and..... Nerf the Ishtar drone bay ffs. I'd luv to know where all those large drones are being stored on a CRUISER.
Well, there's one way to address the drone issue: change drones to have a similar volume to the turreted weapons of the same size.
Why is a sentry drone only 25m3 when it should be closer to 1000?
Of course I also want turreted weapons to have a meaningful size, so that a large railgun doesn't somehow fit into a 50m3 package. The materials alone are twenty times the volume.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|
ashley Eoner
402
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 23:01:33 -
[46] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Desimus Maximus wrote:Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/ Sounds like D-rectile dysfunction to me. And btw ratting with drones is how 95% of capsuleers make their money. AND.. And.. and..... Nerf the Ishtar drone bay ffs. I'd luv to know where all those large drones are being stored on a CRUISER. Well, there's one way to address the drone issue: change drones to have a similar volume to the turreted weapons of the same size. Why is a sentry drone only 25m3 when it should be closer to 1000? Of course I also want turreted weapons to have a meaningful size, so that a large railgun doesn't somehow fit into a 50m3 package. The materials alone are twenty times the volume.
So your "solution" to the ishtar being "OP" is for CCP to change every drone carrying ship in the game? Wut?????
ISHTAR IS OP BAN DRONES!!! |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
521
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 23:18:41 -
[47] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Let's see... - Drones ignore most instructions. - They target whoever they want. - They attack whenever they feel like. - They switch targets at random - They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?). Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at. Mr Epeen
You obviously suck at using drones. I've never had any of these problems.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
521
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 23:22:34 -
[48] - Quote
"Drones do all these awful things like attack things I don't want them to, not attack things I do want them to, fly off in random directions, and so on. Yeah, drones suck. I still use them because reasons, but yeah they totally suck. Don't touch them."
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
|
ashley Eoner
403
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 23:35:52 -
[49] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:"Drones do all these awful things like attack things I don't want them to, not attack things I do want them to, fly off in random directions, and so on. Yeah, drones suck. I still use them because reasons, but yeah they totally suck. Don't touch them."
I use them because they are on most combat ships as a secondary weapon system. Generally as ant-anythingtoosmallformygunstohit. So yes I use them because well they are almost always there...
I do like it when my light drones don't return to me and just float around off 60 KM from me haha..
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6143
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 23:44:36 -
[50] - Quote
Ishtars....
sooo the pattern will be: Everybody using a drone boat nerf drones.
I think that can happen, why?
What happened in the past?
Drakes happened.
It was "everybody using a missile boat" HM got nerfed.
THEN after a while, the Drake got nerfed.
The nerf hammer is a clown hammer. I hope this pattern is not repeated.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11543
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 00:05:30 -
[51] - Quote
They simply need to remove sentry drones from the game.
That solves a lot of problems up front, all the way from HAC balance to capital ship balance, and in between.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
48
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 00:30:35 -
[52] - Quote
Drones aren't OP, some ship drone bonuses are. Cruisers with 400m3 bays are just ludicrous.
The Gila got whacked for that, and everybody cried until they realized it is more lethal than it was before with serious medium buffs.
The Ishtar needs a similar adjustment imho. Drop the sentry bonuses, capacity (250m3 like the Eos), and buff the mediums dps/hp. Heavy bonuses can stay, it's still a wrecking ball. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
521
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 00:32:18 -
[53] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They simply need to remove sentry drones from the game.
That solves a lot of problems up front, all the way from HAC balance to capital ship balance, and in between.
No it doesn't. It's a ******** idea.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
|
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
48
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 00:49:41 -
[54] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They simply need to remove sentry drones from the game.
That solves a lot of problems up front, all the way from HAC balance to capital ship balance, and in between.
Or simply add a deployment timer to sentries (like the deployable units in game).
|
Lloyd Roses
818
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 11:08:14 -
[55] - Quote
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:Drones aren't OP.
Tell that to my Hyperion's Praetors, they are murdering frigs and dessis.
I GÖÑ Sleipnir
|
Signal11th
1659
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 11:40:55 -
[56] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:Drones aren't OP. Tell that to my Hyperion's Praetors, they are murdering frigs and dessis.
As a BS should.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
|
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Full Spectrum Inc
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
25
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 12:27:39 -
[57] - Quote
I think all drones are almost perfect as is and need very little tweaking. Speaking as a ratter, and some ratters will hate me for this, I believe the auto aggression drones have should be removed. Drones should have to be told to "engage target a, b, or c," and not fly off on their own to engage a target. If they are not told to engage a target, they should just orbit the ship until the engage command is given. I fly a drone boat everyday, so this would effect me as well. This would be a huge change for some pilots, but to me some of the other "drone nerf" options are far more disturbing.
|
Lloyd Roses
818
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 12:31:23 -
[58] - Quote
Would be cool though if FoF afk-orbiting the Hub Beacon at 100km would be as profitable as doing the same with deployed heavies.
I dislike how you can't really do this with Em/Therm drones compared to Kin/Exp and their absurd shield-hp discrepancy.
I GÖÑ Sleipnir
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11547
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 12:54:56 -
[59] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They simply need to remove sentry drones from the game.
That solves a lot of problems up front, all the way from HAC balance to capital ship balance, and in between. No it doesn't. It's a ******** idea.
Elaborate.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion
The Bastion
896
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 13:59:22 -
[60] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Hicksimus wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:
You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.
But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much. Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc. Now you're just being ridiculous. If you can't out dps an ishtar at 120 KM range while having a bigger tank in a BS then you're doing it wrong. The ishtar pilot has to sacrifice a LOT of something to be hitting at 120km usually both tank and DPS. At the very least DPS takes a nasty hit compared to BSes. So no you're not going to be doing BS level dps at 120 KM while still having a good tank in an ishtar.
Standard shield tanked nano Ishtar does in every circumstance more DPS against an another Ishtar than a BS will at 120km, excluding the Dominix because they share the same weapon system. When shooting a BS, baltec megathron will do more DPS than the Ishtar at 118km and onwards, between 0-118km the Ishtar does more DPS. Picking 120km range is deceiving as it's pretty much the break point between the ships and you can just rabble on about it until the world ends. Fact is that Ishtar cannot control past 117km on this fit and baltec can lock up to 145km.
This leads to a conclusion that yes, Ishtar cannot out-damage at 120km, but any range before 118km the Ishtar (and dominix) will be superior choice due to their zero tracking issues (drones are not attached to the ship) and DPS. This is due to their bonuses to sentry drones, and only because of that. |
ashley Eoner
406
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 16:36:59 -
[61] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:Hicksimus wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:
You know I can share a dozen or more builds involving cruisers belching out battleship level DPS without even using drones.
But these fits you would share have to be at 3km instead of 70-120km to do it and they have no EHP. I get that my idea isn't popular because nearly everybody is abusing drones for large PvE income and nullsec is using them to be lame in general but I'm still certain that having Battleship DPS at huge range with infinite ammo in a relatively fast ship is a bit much. Edit: Or let me mount other battleship weapons on cruisers while still being able to properly fit them because that would be amazing. 425mm Deimos Versus Sentry Ishtar, etc. Now you're just being ridiculous. If you can't out dps an ishtar at 120 KM range while having a bigger tank in a BS then you're doing it wrong. The ishtar pilot has to sacrifice a LOT of something to be hitting at 120km usually both tank and DPS. At the very least DPS takes a nasty hit compared to BSes. So no you're not going to be doing BS level dps at 120 KM while still having a good tank in an ishtar. Standard shield tanked nano Ishtar does in every circumstance more DPS against an another Ishtar than a BS will at 120km, excluding the Dominix because they share the same weapon system. When shooting a BS, baltec megathron will do more DPS than the Ishtar at 118km and onwards, between 0-118km the Ishtar does more DPS. Picking 120km range is deceiving as it's pretty much the break point between the ships and you can just rabble on about it until the world ends. Fact is that Ishtar cannot control past 117km on this fit and baltec can lock up to 145km. This leads to a conclusion that yes, Ishtar cannot out-damage at 120km, but any range before 118km the Ishtar (and dominix) will be superior choice due to their zero tracking issues (drones are not attached to the ship) and DPS. This is due to their bonuses to sentry drones, and only because of that.
Show us this standard shield tanked ishtar..
Sentry drones have at best BS level of tracking so even though they are sitting still there will be tracking issues as your opponent should be moving too. Although we could spend the next year providing counter examples either way.
Regardless anything beyond 20 KM your opponent can disengage at will. |
Khan Wrenth
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
101
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 16:53:20 -
[62] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Let's see... - Drones ignore most instructions. - They target whoever they want. - They attack whenever they feel like. - They switch targets at random - They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?). Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at. Mr Epeen
You know, I don't doubt this happens, but how often? I've used drones extensively for over a year, I've never had ONE of those supposed problems happen to me.
Easy way to bring drones more in-line to other weapon systems? Make them use capacitor of the trigger ship. Suddenly, you can't use instalock interceptors on a gate because he won't have enough reserves to fire all five. It doesn't even have to be a lot of cap. It can be fairly balanced so 5 sentries on one ship is perfectly doable, even on an ishtar. But it does do a lot to balance them properly since now there is something you can do to counter the weapon other than "lol bombs despite the fact that you can't use them in half the space". Neut out the trigger ship - he can still reassign if he wants. But you'll need sufficient capacitor to trigger all those sentries, so any instalock interceptor won't be able to. And heck, you'll make those new void bombs that much more valuable if you can figure out the enemy trigger ship in a fleet (doubtful, but hey I leave that one up to you guys to figure out).
Plus, now that cap requirement will effect the active modules on the trigger ship, like local tank and prop mods. You may or may not be able to run them all at once.
Out of 5 major weapon systems in the game (laser turrets, hybrid turrets, projectile turrets, missiles, drones), a full three of them don't use cap. Since drones in general ignore all other forms of electronic warfare but are generally balanced, but sentries are inheritly different than other drones which suffer from travel time and MORE susceptibility to destruction, I think this would be a perfect trade-off for sentries.
I don't want them removed from the game, nerfed too hard, made unusuable, their damage lowered, their tracking lowered...I think this one change will bring them better in-line for PVP since now you have one more option to pursue.
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
|
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
50
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 17:07:41 -
[63] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:Drones aren't OP. Tell that to my Hyperion's Praetors, they are murdering frigs and dessis.
Thats funny, I fly a Hyperion and use the sentries for same effect. Shh, don't tell my Caldari overlords... |
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
50
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 17:19:45 -
[64] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Since drones in general ignore all other forms of electronic warfare....
Really? Maybe you should try ewar against drones and see...
|
Commander Spurty
Dimension Door
We need wards.
1418
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 17:54:59 -
[65] - Quote
If you can't micromanage your drones and put one drone on each of 5 targets, you need to keep practicing or reskill.
Problem is mostly yours. Rarely see drones going skynet these days. Used to be a huge issue. Now, not so much.
Drones are insane when you look at their stats. Clearly some degree of "Mass delusion" going on if you think otherwise.
Infinite ammo is fine as long as only shoot EMP/Thermal AND you balance that with cap limitations.
After that, drones drive pretty quickly into the "this makes no sense" area of the game.
While we're looking at them under the microscope, why if I 'tracking disrupt' your ship, does this not affect your drones? You ship is the one controlling them .. right?
Reloading is a start .. give them ammo as well plz
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6149
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 18:18:07 -
[66] - Quote
Commander Spurty wrote:If you can't micromanage your drones and put one drone on each of 5 targets, you need to keep practicing or reskill.
Problem is mostly yours. Rarely see drones going skynet these days. Used to be a huge issue. Now, not so much.
Drones are insane when you look at their stats. Clearly some degree of "Mass delusion" going on if you think otherwise.
Infinite ammo is fine as long as only shoot EMP/Thermal AND you balance that with cap limitations.
After that, drones drive pretty quickly into the "this makes no sense" area of the game.
While we're looking at them under the microscope, why if I 'tracking disrupt' your ship, does this not affect your drones? You ship is the one controlling them .. right?
Reloading is a start .. give them ammo as well plz
That's why if they want to drop nerf hammers on drones, then just an arbitrary nerf hammer, like what they did to rapid missile launchers and the ridiculous reload time, would only be an exhibition of reckless ignorance.
if they want to make it harder to switch drones, then justify a "launch prep time" by letting us load up drones with different ammo and give drones module and rig slots.
If they want to reduce the damage output of drones, then let us weigh the "cost and risk" ourselves instead of a blinded and blanket nerf so that some players who will pay the price in CPU, grid or bandwidth can still maintain higher damage instead of, you know, having to park their drone boats and train for something else.
If they want to change NPC AI to make drone use harder, or worse, rapid drone nuking, then let us at least be able to equip and rig drones with armor and specific scripts to meet changing needs.
Yeah that's a lot of changes. Sometimes I think the brainless blanket nerfs (I've had a kicked dog reflex to nerfs since the rapid missile launcher debacle) is pretty much ALL that can be done when too many "important" players (large blocs *ahem* grrr goons and all that) put their complaint swarm to work.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Ginger Lunacy
Promethean Productions Inc
14
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:11:49 -
[67] - Quote
I started playing eve in 2008 and have been a faithful follower since then.I have put up with each nerf as they make each one of my favorite ships/weapons obsolete.The last drone changes made me train an extra couple of months to get my drones back to where they were(not better).No big deal i comply without a whimper and adjust to "rebalance".What you sheep fail to see is some of us use drones as a main weapon system and only drones for pve.They are just barely on par with turrets, missiles etc.With this latest incoming nerf drones will fall short of any comparison to every other main weapon system.I have felt for the last year of constant nerfs/"rebalancing" that maybe its time to move on from eve because its just not the game i fell in love with years ago.These geniuses have turned it into wow it seems.When these nerfs become a reality my subs will end.No you cant have my sh%t. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
191
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:33:39 -
[68] - Quote
Desimus Maximus wrote:Skyla Braveheart wrote:yeah..i was trying to rat last night, and my drones were suddenly just..stopping. not attacking until i ordered them to -again- needless to say..the rats out tanked them because they kept stopping..i didnt have this problem before..only last night..i dont know if something changed or what..but..its bad..ratting with drones is how i make money so far..and now i cant :/ Sounds like D-rectile dysfunction to me. And btw ratting with drones is how 95% of capsuleers make their money. AND.. And.. and..... Nerf the Ishtar drone bay ffs. I'd luv to know where all those large drones are being stored on a CRUISER.
Not I, ive stopped using drones for missions. When I deploy drones I see instant agro drop from my ship to any drone that gets launched and usually atleast 1 instapop
As well as I leave the drones for only close combat due to needing a quick recovery time when they get aggro before attacking anything.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
|
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion
The Bastion
896
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 19:46:33 -
[69] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:
Show us this standard shield tanked ishtar..
Sentry drones have at best BS level of tracking so even though they are sitting still there will be tracking issues as your opponent should be moving too. Although we could spend the next year providing counter examples either way.
Regardless anything beyond 20 KM your opponent can disengage at will.
2x DLA II
2x LSE
10mn MWD
Invul
EM ward
2-3x DDA
1-2 OTE II
DC II
Pretty much standard fleet shield Ishtar everyone and their mother uses. 118km control range, drones hit reliably to about 132-133km and track anything BS sized perfectly. Disengaging means you lose the fight, which can cost you a tower, a station or a system, it's not always an option. Small gang/solo Ishtars are perfectly fine beacuse we can just warp on top of it and force it to run or it dies to anything from a few talwars to a single BS if tackled. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
308
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 22:14:38 -
[70] - Quote
Drones were already nerfed with the AI changes a few years ago. Drone have a lot of lost dps due to having to constantly recall and re-deploy them. I mean I guess from a PvP stand point that changed nothing but if you keep nerfing drones for PvP reasons and don't do anything to prop them up on PvE then where is this balance that you are claiming to be after?
I'm not arguing for balance mind you. In fact I argued against it in the discussions leading up to the tiericide. I'm just saying you claim to be seeking balance amongst the races when it is most certainly not the case. |
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
7
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 00:03:38 -
[71] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:I'm just saying you claim to be seeking balance amongst the races when it is most certainly not the case.
Racist |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct
Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
286
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 12:52:37 -
[72] - Quote
I don't think a timer would really help towards "balancing" drone boats like the Ishtar. Many ships can use drones, and they are their only defense against smaller ones, such as battleships against frigates.
At the end, it seems that the main problem is the Ishtar and its ability to both have a large drone bay and field heavy/sentry drones, as it gives it a hard punch (nearly battleship-like) with cruiser mobility and T2 resists.
I wonder how would it do if each ship could only use drones its size or smaller. That is:
- Light drones for frigates and destroyers.
- Light and medium drones for cruisers and battlecruisers.
- Light, medium, heavy and sentry drones for battleships.
- Carriers and supercarriers keep their current abilities (all subcap drones plus fighters/fighterbombers).
Maybe that way we could prevent smaller ships from dealing too much damage for their size, such as the Ishtar.
Or maybe this could hurt other ships too much. What do you think?
That said, I've never had any of the "problems" some people are claiming to have with their drones attacking whatever they want, etc.
If your drones are set to aggresive, they will attack the nearest hostile target if they were previously deployed, and attack the next hostile target once the first one is done, no matter if you told them to attack the first one or not.
If they're set to passive, they will only engage targets that you, personally, indicate them, and stand-by otherwise.
After each target, you have to manually direct them towards their targets, check if they're approaching the limit of your drone control range, and pull them back if they're taking too much damage.
You have to carefully control them, like if you were using turrets or launchers.
|
Foxicity
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
113
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 21:08:43 -
[73] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:At least they behave more like 12yr old cats now instead of the herd of rowdy kittens they used to be. So they sleep all day, constantly demand to be fed in the hope that you've forgotten that you fed them 10 minutes ago and smack you in the face at 3 in the morning in the hope you'll feed them again or let them out? More like attack your feet, your friends feet, your mothers feet, each other, the wall, the curtains, the couch, the spot where the sun is shining on the rug, the bug on the wall, the pull string for the ceiling fan, the newspaper... pretty much everything else but the one thing theyre told or allowed to attack.
Are we talking about CCP or drones  |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6162
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 21:31:37 -
[74] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:I don't think a timer would really help towards "balancing" drone boats like the Ishtar. Many ships can use drones, and they are their only defense against smaller ones, such as battleships against frigates.
At the end, it seems that the main problem is the Ishtar and its ability to both have a large drone bay and field heavy/sentry drones, as it gives it a hard punch (nearly battleship-like) with cruiser mobility and T2 resists.
I wonder how would it do if each ship could only use drones its size or smaller. That is:
- Light drones for frigates and destroyers.
- Light and medium drones for cruisers and battlecruisers.
- Light, medium, heavy and sentry drones for battleships.
- Carriers and supercarriers keep their current abilities (all subcap drones plus fighters/fighterbombers).
Maybe that way we could prevent smaller ships from dealing too much damage for their size, such as the Ishtar.
Or maybe this could hurt other ships too much. What do you think?
That said, I've never had any of the "problems" some people are claiming to have with their drones attacking whatever they want, etc.
If your drones are set to aggresive, they will attack the nearest hostile target if they were previously deployed, and attack the next hostile target once the first one is done, no matter if you told them to attack the first one or not.
If they're set to passive, they will only engage targets that you, personally, indicate them, and stand-by otherwise.
After each target, you have to manually direct them towards their targets, check if they're approaching the limit of your drone control range, and pull them back if they're taking too much damage.
You have to carefully control them, like if you were using turrets or launchers.
I'm going to bet we'll see something arbitrary but along the lines of how missiles were handled.
Back in the days of olde, a missile launcher did not really "care" what size missile. There was a time when the size of the missile was not pegged to the size of the launcher.
So I can see a day that, given the problems cited with a certain drone boat, we will see "small drone bay", "Medium Drone bay" and "Large Drone Bay", and maybe even "Fighter Bay", etc.
HOPEFULLY if CCP were to implement that to keep the size of a ships drones in compliance with the size of the ship, we would be able to treat drone bays like modules. That is, while say a frigate might only be able to fit a "small drone bay", we would have the option say with a battle cruiser like the Cyclone (as an example) which can hold 10 light drones OR 5 medium drones, we would have the choice then to fit one "medium drone bay" or 2x "small drone bay".
On such a system, then it could be construed that a ship like a cruiser would simply not be able to fit a "large drone bay" and such that a battleship could, but for the love of God, let larger ships "size down" while not letting smaller ships "size up" could correct this Ishtar scourge without boning every battleship pilot across New Eden.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.02.01 03:39:33 -
[75] - Quote
Drones are fine except for sentries. Those need to be ma. slightly less good but not to the point of uselessness. A lot of the things being talked about are just going to make drones useless - they already have a quite major disadvantage in travel time and the fact that with a web they can be killed quite easily. The potential to lose so much of your dps especially on a ship with a smaller drone bay is a real threat.
The issue with sentries is that they simply don't share the same disadvantages as the rest of their weapon class.
Perhaps a slight nerf to dps especially at extreme range? Maybe lower their rate of fire and raise damage to compensate?
Drones are a very SP intensive weapon and id like to not see them nuked. Find a way to make sentry ishtars and carriers SLIGHTLY less good and problem solved. |
Valkin Mordirc
614
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Posted - 2015.02.02 02:33:27 -
[76] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missiles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it.
Oldish post but I'd just like to point something out, about what you're saying.
If CCP let some OP mechanic in the game, Everyone would use it. Because everything else would be welped by it. So there would be no point in flying anything else
If CCP Nerfed everything into the same thing, Everyone would be using it. The only difference is the way the ships looked.
Illusion of choice much? Your post pretty much defeats itself.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6172
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Posted - 2015.02.02 03:40:19 -
[77] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missiles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it. Oldish post but I'd just like to point something out, about what you're saying. If CCP let some OP mechanic in the game, Everyone would use it. Because everything else would be welped by it. So there would be no point in flying anything else If CCP Nerfed everything into the same thing, Everyone would be using it. The only difference is the way the ships looked. Illusion of choice much? Your post pretty much defeats itself.
The concern is that CCP might fail to directly address the actual scourge and do a blanket nerf either by a retardation of functionality or capability (the Drake use resulting in missile nerf) of an entire "thing".
The "scourge" is not the drones, it's a ship of the month fielding a certain drone type. Hopefully this is directly addressed, and not everybody gets "punished" (using that term loosely here).
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Caldari State Capturing
1366
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:41:10 -
[78] - Quote
All they have to do is give drones a fitting cost.
Drone ships are OP at the moment - Ishtar is just a stand out example.
No other ship type can fit DPS without any CPU or PG cost.
This leaves drone ships the ability to be uber tanked + Fast/hold some Ewar/whatevs else you want all while doing good dps.
So either a drone nerf or a fitting cost for putting them in the bay is needed + cap use for deploying them. (to stop people undocking with offlined modules and switching them on one the pew starts)
Docked since 2009.
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
A T O N E M E N T
606
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Posted - 2015.02.02 18:21:15 -
[79] - Quote
Drones in my opinion are strong - but standard drones are in a solid place. Where they fall down is with the balancing of Sentries as opposed to light / medium / heavy drones. Drones as a standard weapon system suffer from many drawbacks and strengths - something that sentries tend to ignore.
Essentially Sentries allow Cruisers to have battle ship sized turrets with no tracking drawback to themselves for maintaining traversal. With the only cost really being that the sentries themselves cannot move. At the same time the alternative option to using the Ishtar would have been the Rattlesnake or Dominix - ships that get genocided off field by bombers. (Which saddens me because I love bombers as a ship and a play style) however with prominent use they may have to be addressed as well.
What am I saying? Yes Drone ships are strong in some circumstances - but overall I feel them to be balanced at the same level as light missile launchers are - slightly strong in most situations but still with weaknesses.
The issue lies in Sentries as a platform when combined with the Ishtar and how Stealth Bombers disrupt the Battleship meta. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
477
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Posted - 2015.02.02 18:28:36 -
[80] - Quote
Here's a solution to the ishtar: remove its sentry bonuses.
Wow its like magic! All problems solved!
Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
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Hibernator X
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
31
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Posted - 2015.02.03 04:54:07 -
[81] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:I don't think a timer would really help towards "balancing" drone boats like the Ishtar. Many ships can use drones, and they are their only defense against smaller ones, such as battleships against frigates.
At the end, it seems that the main problem is the Ishtar and its ability to both have a large drone bay and field heavy/sentry drones, as it gives it a hard punch (nearly battleship-like) with cruiser mobility and T2 resists.
I wonder how would it do if each ship could only use drones its size or smaller. That is:
- Light drones for frigates and destroyers.
- Light and medium drones for cruisers and battlecruisers.
- Light, medium, heavy and sentry drones for battleships.
- Carriers and supercarriers keep their current abilities (all subcap drones plus fighters/fighterbombers).
Maybe that way we could prevent smaller ships from dealing too much damage for their size, such as the Ishtar.
Or maybe this could hurt other ships too much. What do you think?
That said, I've never had any of the "problems" some people are claiming to have with their drones attacking whatever they want, etc.
If your drones are set to aggresive, they will attack the nearest hostile target if they were previously deployed, and attack the next hostile target once the first one is done, no matter if you told them to attack the first one or not.
If they're set to passive, they will only engage targets that you, personally, indicate them, and stand-by otherwise.
After each target, you have to manually direct them towards their targets, check if they're approaching the limit of your drone control range, and pull them back if they're taking too much damage.
You have to carefully control them, like if you were using turrets or launchers.
It is my belief that the ishtar and vni should be put into line with the myrmidon and the eos should keep 5 larges. T2 and faction combat-centric ships should probably punch a bit higher than the t1 versions. |
Marlona Sky
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
5951
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Posted - 2015.02.03 05:23:47 -
[82] - Quote
What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?
Vote for Marlona Sky in the CSM 10 election!
Be sure to watch The Paradox, my PvP video.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6178
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Posted - 2015.02.03 05:35:51 -
[83] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies?
Edit: my mistake - been flying them rigged so long I though they had a bonus.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Signal11th
1659
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Posted - 2015.02.03 08:56:06 -
[84] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Signal11th wrote:Yeah back to the next thing they nerf, it's just a never-ending cycle of CCP nerfing stuff because it's too popular and then the players finding what's the next best thing to use and then CCP nerfing that because it's too popular and so on and so on.
Drake blobs , nerf missiles
Supercap blobs = nerf tracking
Drone blobs= lets nerf drones.
Why not just give everyone the same ship and the same weapon and be done with it. Oldish post but I'd just like to point something out, about what you're saying. If CCP let some OP mechanic in the game, Everyone would use it. Because everything else would be welped by it. So there would be no point in flying anything else If CCP Nerfed everything into the same thing, Everyone would be using it. The only difference is the way the ships looked. Illusion of choice much? Your post pretty much defeats itself.
and yours just points out what I said. Any mechanic in EVE is OP if enough people use it together.
Nerf drones and then in 6-12 months time just wait for the next nerf to whatever the people are now mass flying next. It's bullshit, you get enough of anything in the game and it will be OP. It's a never ending circle basically driven by moaning egits who can't think outside the box.
Personally I've never had a problem killing an Ishtar but I do have a problem killing 100 ishtars on my own but then again I'd have trouble killing a hundred badgers so lets nerf their cargo space.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
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Kamahl Daikun
Perkone
Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:10:18 -
[85] - Quote
Hibernator X wrote:I don't understand why they can't see that the issue is with the bonuses on drone ships and how they scale with large drones on cruisers... The problem does not lie with the drones themselves.
Pretty much this.
Unless you've trained into drones, using them on a hull with no bonus is really just DPS Whoring. The only exception is (maybe) sentries and ECM Drones.
Drones by themselves have a lot of problems and bugs. People only whine about them because of the hull bonuses and how they scale. |
ashley Eoner
413
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Posted - 2015.02.03 15:18:56 -
[86] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies? That'd be an awful idea to limit the domi to heavy drones. |
M1k3y Koontz
Aether Ventures
Surely You're Joking
646
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Posted - 2015.02.03 17:35:32 -
[87] - Quote
Blavish wrote:According to the CCP minutes drones might have a reload timer similar to guns.
The thing about drones is they already have a disadvantage from guns because they first have to return from the target if you want to swap them, then they have to return back to the target you want attacked.
Drones can be abandoned, thus your argument is invalid.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Marlona Sky
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
5951
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Posted - 2015.02.03 17:39:37 -
[88] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:[quote=Marlona Sky]What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies? That'd be an awful idea to limit the domi to heavy drones.
Why?
Vote for Marlona Sky in the CSM 10 election!
Be sure to watch The Paradox, my PvP video.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1029
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Posted - 2015.02.03 18:05:13 -
[89] - Quote
Relevant. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2015.02.03 20:16:38 -
[90] - Quote
As long as all other weapon systems get the reload + flight time factored in so they are on equal footing.
Funny how drone boats weren't OP till they were flown in a 150km arena where the target couldn't leave.
It seems everyone forgot they can warp out...its not like the sentry boats also has you tackled from 150km.
If they have a friend, get one yourself.
And lets not forget...you can shoot the drones and take away the weapon system. Can you say the same for turrets? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6179
|
Posted - 2015.02.03 20:29:16 -
[91] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:As long as all other weapon systems get the reload + flight time factored in so they are on equal footing.
Funny how drone boats weren't OP till they were flown in a 150km arena where the target couldn't leave.
It seems everyone forgot they can warp out...its not like the sentry boats also has you tackled from 150km.
If they have a friend, get one yourself.
And lets not forget...you can shoot the drones and take away the weapon system. Can you say the same for turrets?
Or my favorite, before the micro jump: being webbed like hell in a drone boat and sniped to death while the drones were ignored.
Oh, so a logi or T2 in the 5 to 1 gang might get taken out by drones now? Awww. Somebody's stats were hurt. Nerf the drones naow!
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29661
|
Posted - 2015.02.03 20:52:09 -
[92] - Quote
Drones are RP / Lore ideas like defender missiles and auto targeting missiles, bombs, and mines, that happen to work.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
870
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Posted - 2015.02.08 03:55:55 -
[93] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:What if the Ishtar and Dominix only received a drone bonus to heavies? That'd be an awful idea to limit the domi to heavy drones. Why? Changing ammo gives you better tracking, range, damage and such. Limiting drone choice reduces flexibility and player tools. Rain6637 wrote:Drones are RP / Lore ideas like defender missiles and auto targeting missiles, bombs, and mines, that happen to work. I wish defender missiles would auto target the nearest drones, bombs or missiles depending on the script you have loaded.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
2488
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Posted - 2015.02.08 04:48:36 -
[94] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Let's see... - Drones ignore most instructions. - They target whoever they want. - They attack whenever they feel like. - They switch targets at random - They wander off on their own (to mate, maybe?). Having them reload is the least of the things that need looking at. Mr Epeen
All of these things are true.
But, I actually find it endearing. Makes me like drones even more.
Reload timer is just the quirk we need to make them even funnier.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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