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End of the Awoxer? Is eve getting too soft?

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Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11680	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:23:59 - [301] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: That's right, go hide under that blanket of smug elitism. And you go right on enjoying that victim mentality you've got going. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:26:57 - [302] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Explain please how a group of non-combat focused players or simply newer players is supposed to defend themselves against people who pinpoint them with locator agents and neutral scouts, gank them with t3/t2 and faction cruisers, and then redock and go back to carebearing on an alt while they wait for another target? Not by dec dodging like a chickenshit, that's for sure. But since it's fairly clear to me that you don't actually want advice, you just want to bellyache about people being allowed to shoot you, this is what I offer as advice. See, to me, it's all about attitude. I've been known to pass over or even reimburse my awox victims if they are good sports about it. If you have a good attitude, you get props, advice if you need it, and even support. If not, then you can burn for all I care, an eternal victim good for nothing but being destroyed for the amusement of others. I'm hardly alone in this perspective, by the way. Quote: And you'd like to force everyone out of NPC corps so you and your friends with near perfect subcap skills and a specialization in hisec warfare can just crap all over them. GO TO NULL OR LOW. If you want good fights. Which you don't. No. EVE is a PvP game, and PvP belongs everywhere. That includes highsec, whether you like it or not. You did not address my question of how a highsec industrial corp with new and noncombat skilled players, without contacts and friends amongst the wardec/Hisec PvP community, who are trying to do pve activities, are supposed to deal with people who just agent locate > neut scout > gank > dock (rinse & repeat) and then go back to grinding ISK on their alts or gatecamping in Vecamia. There is no effective way to fight back other than staying logged or staying out of high with the decked characters. You could spring a trap with some cleverness and organization but that's a reach for people with limited knowledge of combat. And vs. Non morons it will work once. Use your isk. Hire mercenaries of your own. Hire bodygaurds to protect you. Get in touch with the person who wardecced you and work out a deal. There are a myriad of things that dont require any PVP combat skills(or friends within the wardec/hisec PVP community, as), that end wars, easily. And if you dont have the resources to do that, then you really shouldnt be a CEO, hiring new players to your corp, at all. Quite frankly, sht CEO's starting sht corporations and then recruiting new players, is one of the worst experiences for new players, and cause a lot of greif and quitting for them. If you dont have the means to run, and more importantly, protect your corp, then you shouldnt be a CEO, and you certainly shouldnt be recruiting new players into your corp. If you do, you are going to be contributing to the downfall of new players by giving them the worst possible new player experience. As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate, and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. As for working out a deal, I suppose if you pay them enough they might stop shooting...I'd just ask for more money. We all know how well ransom payments usually work out for the victim. I don't run a corp. I was in a newbie corp that got decked some months ago, personal experience aside this is all pretty obvious to someone who pays attention, and reads the various griefer/ganker blogs for entertainment.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11680	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:31:00 - [303] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate Except that isn't true. Some of the biggest dunks I've ever seen in highsec were by defender mercs. (well, that and CODE) Quote: and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Auduin Ituin Guilty Pleasures 2	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:44:25 - [304] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate Except that isn't true. Some of the biggest dunks I've ever seen in highsec were by defender mercs. (well, that and CODE) Quote: and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... There's a chat channel for exactly that purpose?
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11680	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:49:32 - [305] - Quote Auduin Ituin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate Except that isn't true. Some of the biggest dunks I've ever seen in highsec were by defender mercs. (well, that and CODE) Quote: and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... There's a chat channel for exactly that purpose? Heck there's more than one merc channel, last time I checked. Nevermind a dozen or more regular posters here that advertise merc services. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 469	Posted - 2015.02.06 04:07:05 - [306] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Solonius Rex wrote: So youre against any form of nonconsensual PVP in highsec? I'm pretty sure that he's stated very clearly multiple times that he is. Completely false by the way...time to stop believing your own talking points So why did you ask why anyone would want to force PVP onto others, and that if you are looking for PVP, you should go to low/nullsec? Sounds like youre contradicting yourself, if one the one hand, youre claiming that you arent against all forms of nonconsensual PVP, and on the other, you dont want people to have PVP forced onto them, nonconsensually. Nope...you aren't understanding. I think that the only nonconsensual PvP allowed in highsec should be ganking, with concord allied with the victims. There should be strict consequences for repeat offenders who do nothing to redeem themselves in the eyes of concord in between ganks. Those who are looking for a more lax environment should move to nullsec.
Auduin Ituin Guilty Pleasures 2	Posted - 2015.02.06 04:13:52 - [307] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Auduin Ituin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate Except that isn't true. Some of the biggest dunks I've ever seen in highsec were by defender mercs. (well, that and CODE) Quote: and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... There's a chat channel for exactly that purpose? Heck there's more than one merc channel, last time I checked. Nevermind a dozen or more regular posters here that advertise merc services. Oh, I thought you meant a centralized merc channel. I've only heard of that once (In the Locates Are Us MOTD)
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5027	Posted - 2015.02.06 07:42:08 - [308] - Quote One of the problems with hiring mercs is that most of the merc you hire are also the guys that roll out wardecs. Paying for a merc to protect you from a wardec pretty much announces to the merc that you are willing to pay to lose the wardec, thus making you a good choice for a target later down the line. If you're small enough to just fold and remake your corp, that's exactly what you should do. It's cheap, it's efficient, it accomplishes the task, it shows you are willing to do it and best of all it produces an untold volume of tears from players who think it's unfair. At the end of the day, if wardeccers are going to suck so much at target selection that they pick corps with no intention of fighting back that are small enough to disband and reform, then the fault is entirely on them. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 131	Posted - 2015.02.06 09:32:21 - [309] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Explain please how a group of non-combat focused players or simply newer players is supposed to defend themselves against people who pinpoint them with locator agents and neutral scouts, gank them with t3/t2 and faction cruisers, and then redock and go back to carebearing on an alt while they wait for another target? Not by dec dodging like a chickenshit, that's for sure. But since it's fairly clear to me that you don't actually want advice, you just want to bellyache about people being allowed to shoot you, this is what I offer as advice. See, to me, it's all about attitude. I've been known to pass over or even reimburse my awox victims if they are good sports about it. If you have a good attitude, you get props, advice if you need it, and even support. If not, then you can burn for all I care, an eternal victim good for nothing but being destroyed for the amusement of others. I'm hardly alone in this perspective, by the way. Quote: And you'd like to force everyone out of NPC corps so you and your friends with near perfect subcap skills and a specialization in hisec warfare can just crap all over them. GO TO NULL OR LOW. If you want good fights. Which you don't. No. EVE is a PvP game, and PvP belongs everywhere. That includes highsec, whether you like it or not. dont wardeccers do the same sort of thing? they dec nullsec pvp corps but dont actually go and fight them, they stay in highsec and wait for freighters (im sure nullsec decced corps would love the content of mercs actually bringing a fight to them), and then when the wardec is over they are free to roam around highsec with protection from concord. so you could call them the chickenshits also. afterall eve is a pvp game and who else better to get pvp from than a pvp corp? Eve is a pvp game but there is also other stuff people can do and they can choose to avoid pvp whether you like it or not. EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 578	Posted - 2015.02.06 09:44:37 - [310] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Eve is a pvp game but there is also other stuff people can do and they can choose to avoid pvp whether you like it or not. You should be able to avoid PvP in this game. The problem is if you can avoid PvP and yet still earn as much ISK as someone who is actually risking something. This is why wardecs are necessary. It is poor sandbox game design to allow an industrial/PvE corp to earn as much in NPC-enforced safety as corporations that actually are risking something as the natural consequence is that an increasing number of players will choose to make ISK in perfect safety and the game will stagnate. Each player should be able to set the risk level that they are comfortable with, but for that to work, the reward has to scale with increasing risk or why would anybody ever leave the safest part of the game? Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.

Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 131	Posted - 2015.02.06 09:54:14 - [311] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Eve is a pvp game but there is also other stuff people can do and they can choose to avoid pvp whether you like it or not. You should be able to avoid PvP in this game. The problem is if you can avoid PvP and yet still earn as much ISK as someone who is actually risking something. This is why wardecs are necessary. It is poor sandbox game design to allow an industrial/PvE corp to earn as much in NPC-enforced safety as corporations that actually are risking something as the natural consequence is that an increasing number of players will choose to make ISK in perfect safety and the game will stagnate. Each player should be able to set the risk level that they are comfortable with, but for that to work, the reward has to scale with increasing risk or why would anybody ever leave the safest part of the game? where is the risk wardeccing a small industrial corp? only risk i can see is a wardeccer falling off his chair lolling at how fast his vindicator popped the retriever EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 578	Posted - 2015.02.06 10:11:54 - [312] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: where is the risk wardeccing a small industrial corp? only risk i can see is a wardeccer falling off his chair lolling at how fast his vindicator popped the retriever Many players seem to have a problem with this. The risk vs. reward thing applies when there is reward to be had. The industrial corp is making rewards and influencing the economy of the sandbox, so the risk is on them to defend their operation. The wardeccer is not creating resources in the sandbox - if anything they are destroying them by losing/destroying ships and paying a wardec fee to NPCs. The industrial corp is making all the reward and gets to keep it if successful, and thus has to accept the risk that someone might try to stop them. The wardeccers stand to gain nothing directly, and certainly aren't putting more resources into the economy by declaring war and thus do necessarily have to be under any additional risk than that normally present in ship-to-ship combat from a game design point of view. Now the reality is more complex as wardeccers do accept a lot of risk under the current system. Read the last wardec devblog and see how the system is suppose to work. You have the ability to invite any other corp for free after the war has been declared and the attackers are locked in for a week. You are suppose to invite your PvP allies, or hire mercenaries, to defend your operation. The wardeccers have no control over this giving the decced corp much power to fight back. Add to that the trivial ability to shed the war by the once-an-exploit-but-no-longer-an-exploit fold and reform corp mechanic, the wardeccers do have much risk that things won't go their way. I think wardecs can be improved, but they are definitely an important part of the risk vs. reward design of the game. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11682	Posted - 2015.02.06 10:28:51 - [313] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: where is the risk wardeccing a small industrial corp? That's the wrong question. What is the industrial corp's risk without it? (the answer is zero, by the way) "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 5030	Posted - 2015.02.06 11:04:34 - [314] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: It is poor sandbox game design to allow an industrial/PvE corp to earn as much in NPC-enforced safety as corporations that actually are risking something as the natural consequence is that an increasing number of players will choose to make ISK in perfect safety and the game will stagnate. Most benefits of owning a corporation aren't to do with direct isk generation, so punishing players for being in NPC corps by reducing their comparative income is pointless. Black Pedro wrote: Each player should be able to set the risk level that they are comfortable with, but for that to work, the reward has to scale with increasing risk or why would anybody ever leave the safest part of the game? You say that, yet thousands upon thousands of players are in player run corps. So there obviously is a reason for them to leave the NPC corps. Your problem appears to be that not everyone leaves NPC corps. That's their choice, and it's perfectly valid. Black Pedro wrote: The wardeccer is not creating resources in the sandbox - if anything they are destroying them by losing/destroying ships and paying a wardec fee to NPCs. Just because they aren't creating value in the sandbox doesn't mean they aren't receiving a reward though. Major wardeccers run very few risks for a pretty substantial reward. More risk and less reward than gankers get, granted, but you can't claim that they are unrewarded because their reward is transferred from a player. Black Pedro wrote: Now the reality is more complex as wardeccers do accept a lot of risk under the current system. Read the last wardec devblog and see how the system is suppose to work. You have the ability to invite any other corp for free after the war has been declared and the attackers are locked in for a week. You are suppose to invite your PvP allies, or hire mercenaries, to defend your operation. The wardeccers have no control over this giving the decced corp much power to fight back. Against a "normal" corp wardeccing, that system works. Against a group specifically designed to operate with hundreds of wars, that system doesn't work. Adding free allies to the war is just giving them more targets to play with. The only allies you could get that would actually be useful would cost you far more than the wardeccer paid to run the wardec, and they would likely be evaded by the wardeccers anyway. Those allies would also likely be wardeccers so you would be paying one group of wardeccers to try to fight another group of wardeccers. That's hardly a way to "fight back" against wardeccers. Black Pedro wrote: Add to that the trivial ability to shed the war by the once-an-exploit-but-no-longer-an-exploit fold and reform corp mechanic, the wardeccers do have much risk that things won't go their way. I think wardecs can be improved, but they are definitely an important part of the risk vs. reward design of the game. Corp reforming can only be done by players with a small enough corp to make destroying and recreating it viable. If a wardeccer is picking a target like that, they suck at target selection, it's that simple. Most corps worth attacking won't have that as an option. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Tasspool Harp Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2015.02.06 11:20:51 - [315] - Quote Clearly EvE is getting too soft. After reading 16 pages of moaning and griping and whining and hollerin' from carebears and wardeccers alike you should all consider yourselves lucky to be living in the lap of luxury. In my day all the POCOs were owned by Interbus and we used to dream of flying a Catalyst as if it was a Titan these days. ahem. Right. When I first started playing EvE after every DT we had to go 38 jumps in our pods to Uedama to mine veldspar twenty-nine hours a day down at belt in an ibis with nought but a shuttle for 'aulin and pay CODE 10mill an hour for permission , and when we went back to station, our CEO would send Awoxer to pod us back to vat in SBEN-Q, while singing "TROLLOLOL." But you try and tell the noobs of today that... and they won't believe ya'. (With an acknowledgment to "4 Minmitars")
Solonius Rex F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY. 119	Posted - 2015.02.06 14:36:46 - [316] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate, Not to counter them, but to protect you while you are on Mining ops and Hauling ops. Its not a waste of money if you pay people to protect you and rep you while you are on a mining op. Its not like you guys have mining ops every hour of every day, you will still be able to schedule, and do them. Thats what smart CEOs of industrials do. They schedule mining ops. Tells their corpmates not to fly around during the wardecs, except for the times where they can be sufficiently protected by whoever they hired. Then, during that week of wardeccing, they have 2-3 mining ops, make a ton of isk. Quote: and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. You dont need ties, only Isk. Do you seriously think that every person that hires a merc company to do a job, has "Ties" with that merc corp? Or did they simply just see the merc corp ad on C&P and contacted them in-game for the first time? You keep repeating this, as if you cant hire a merc company unless you know the CEO of that corp personally in real life, and have spent 10 years living next to him. Let me repeat it here. ANY merc company is up for hire for the right price. You DONT NEED TIES TO HIRE A MERC CORP! Quote: As for working out a deal, I suppose if you pay them enough they might stop shooting...I'd just ask for more money. We all know how well ransom payments usually work out for the victim. Not a ransom, but a surrender. You offer the isk along with a surrender, and if they accept, as per your agreement, they cannot wardec you for 2 weeks. The only way they can get that isk, is if they accept the surrender offer, which means the war is effectively over. You seem like you dont know how Wardecs and surrenders work. Quote: I don't run a corp. I was in a newbie corp that got decked some months ago, personal experience aside this is all pretty obvious to someone who pays attention, and reads the various griefer/ganker blogs for entertainment. I never said you did run a corp. But my statement stands. It looks like the CEO of your newbie corp, shouldnt have started the corp in the first place. If you lack experience/isk/skills to run a corp, you shouldnt be recruiting Newbies. You should be recruiting Skilled players who know how to act and manage themselves. A newbie CEO recruiting Newbie players, is only going to lead to a sh*t corp that fails more often than it succeeds. The fault is not with the gankers/greifers/wardeccers, but your CEO. He shouldve been more aware, he shouldve been more experienced.
Solonius Rex F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY. 119	Posted - 2015.02.06 14:40:52 - [317] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... He clearly doesnt understand the concept of a merc corp. He keeps saying he needs "Ties" with elite PVP corps in order to hire them to protect him, as if the only people who can hire merc corps are people who know the CEO of those corps in real life and are BFF with them or something. Has he not seen the dozen or so ads on C&P alone, of Merc corps offering their services? Does he think that these threads are simply Merc corps advertising between their friends, and that utter strangers cant hire them or something?
Inata Policar Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.02.06 14:43:29 - [318] - Quote Eh, Awoxing hasn't been dying, it's just been evolving past "let's kill 10 mining ships, if that, and watch the lelz"
Solonius Rex F0RCED ENTRY F0RCED ENTRY. 119	Posted - 2015.02.06 14:44:12 - [319] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Solonius Rex wrote: Veers Belvar wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Solonius Rex wrote: So youre against any form of nonconsensual PVP in highsec? I'm pretty sure that he's stated very clearly multiple times that he is. Completely false by the way...time to stop believing your own talking points So why did you ask why anyone would want to force PVP onto others, and that if you are looking for PVP, you should go to low/nullsec? Sounds like youre contradicting yourself, if one the one hand, youre claiming that you arent against all forms of nonconsensual PVP, and on the other, you dont want people to have PVP forced onto them, nonconsensually. Nope...you aren't understanding. I think that the only nonconsensual PvP allowed in highsec should be ganking, with concord allied with the victims. There should be strict consequences for repeat offenders who do nothing to redeem themselves in the eyes of concord in between ganks. Those who are looking for a more lax environment should move to nullsec. Isnt a gank, forcing people into PVP?
Veers Belvar Swordmasters of New Eden 476	Posted - 2015.02.06 21:58:01 - [320] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Isnt a gank, forcing people into PVP? Yes....but it carries criminal consequences. It is tantamount to real life crime, and provides victims with police protection. That should be how nonconsensual pvp works...not forcing folks into often warfare without concord help.

Leto Thule Team Pizza Disavowed. 2070	Posted - 2015.02.06 23:00:23 - [321] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Solonius Rex wrote: Isnt a gank, forcing people into PVP? Yes....but it carries criminal consequences. It is tantamount to real life crime, and provides victims with police protection. That should be how nonconsensual pvp works...not forcing folks into often warfare without concord help. There is the crack in your argument. CONCORD does not protect anyone. Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
Elyham The Eleventh Commandment Dystopia Alliance 30	Posted - 2015.02.06 23:38:12 - [322] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: Solonius Rex wrote: Isnt a gank, forcing people into PVP? Yes....but it carries criminal consequences. It is tantamount to real life crime, and provides victims with police protection. That should be how nonconsensual pvp works...not forcing folks into often warfare without concord help. Using real life examples to justify changing how things work with internet spaceships... Of course in real life the cops would actually show up and kill you themselves.
admiral root Red Galaxy 2284	Posted - 2015.02.07 01:09:24 - [323] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: It is tantamount to real life crime No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. Sabriz for CSM
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2015.02.07 04:32:51 - [324] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: As I already noted, hiring counter mercs is a waste of ISK due to the way hisec wardeccers operate Except that isn't true. Some of the biggest dunks I've ever seen in highsec were by defender mercs. (well, that and CODE) Quote: and an industry corp by definition is going to have ties with fewer effective pvp pilots than their opposition. If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... When is the last time a CODE or a major merc corp (read wardec spamming hub campers) was successfully dunked by one of the small time industrial corps they were abusing? When I see the killmails I will believe it. As of yet all I see is chuckles here and elsewhere about mining barges and lolfit combat ships flown by the clueless being shredded by the glorious knights of elite pvp. Nowhere did I say these killmail farms can't hire mercs to defend them. I did say that they're not going to get much for their ISK against targets that are by nature much less vulnerable and are knowledgeable in the mysteries of watchlists, locator agents, neutral scouts and logi alt hordes. You are strawman-ing everything I say like I can't read the gloating over "tears" on your own blogs.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2015.02.07 04:41:12 - [325] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: That's right, go hide under that blanket of smug elitism. And you go right on enjoying that victim mentality you've got going. Victim mentality? I lose ships on a regular basis without much concern. I don't claim to be good at this game, but at least I don't need a blob or 2 logi alts to make me brave enough to take fights. You having an issue with people making risk free ISK. I have an issue with people farming risk free kills, which I believe hold a lot more intrinsic value than video game money. And you only have an issue with people making risk free ISK in highsec, when that option is just as available to nullsec blocs controlling large sections of the map. Getting a 99% green killboard while you and your friends sit on a hub undock every day should not be a thing.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 47	Posted - 2015.02.07 05:00:14 - [326] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If only there was a chat channel for exactly that purpose... He clearly doesnt understand the concept of a merc corp. He keeps saying he nweds ties with elite PVP corps in order to hire them to protect him, as if the only people who can hire merc corps are people who know the CEO of those corps in real life and are BFF with them or something. Has he not seen the dozen or so ads on C&P alone, of Merc corps offering their services? Does he think that these threads are simply Merc corps advertising between their friends, and that utter strangers cant hire them or something? That straw man again. He's a nimble fellow. Let me define "ties" as an in-game relationship, occasional blue status, on/off cooperation, knowledge of tactics, organization, and geography. I'd venture to say that the mercenary / ganker / belligerent undesirables community are a fairly tight knit group that aren't inclined to shoot at each other very much because well, shooting people who can shoot back effectively is hard. Shooting people who only return fire via hilarious evemails is much better. And the wardec happy members of that community make a practice of warring against people who don't read the forums, don't know what C & P is, can't afford 250M a week or whatever it is to hire marmite, heck they can't even figure out that battleship sized guns are a bad choice against assault frigates. And if by god you do end up in a war against a group that manages to present an effective opposition, you can just avoid them and turn your attention to one of your 30 other ongoing wars. And if the aforementioned effective opposition wants to come to the trade hub undock and duke it out with a half dozen logi supported vindicators, good luck to them.
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2015.02.07 05:28:22 - [327] - Quote Veers Belvar wrote: It is tantamount to real life crime No, EVE crimes are not anything close to real life crimes. Let us hope that EVE allows even one person inclined to real life crime to funnel their negative desires into the virtual world instead. Having been a victim of both real life mugging and EVE ganking, I say please more EVE crime if it would reduce that in real life.
Auduin Ituin Guilty Pleasures 2	Posted - 2015.02.07 05:56:40 - [328] - Quote Anyway, people seem to really hate and overestimate war deccers.. A majority are <10 man corps and don't fly Vindicators 23/7. You guys make it out like they're 700 man alliances that have full HG snake Vindicator fleet with 30 man Guardian chain support.
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 583	Posted - 2015.02.07 07:11:36 - [329] - Quote Auduin Ituin wrote: Anyway, people seem to really hate and overestimate war deccers.. A majority are <10 man corps and don't fly Vindicators 23/7. You guys make it out like they're 700 man alliances that have full HG snake Vindicator fleet with 30 man Guardian chain support. It is the same with gankers. Many people come to the forums with the view that gankers are some unnatural menace that have unlimited resources, unlimited manpower and the ability to be everywhere at once. Perhaps it is part of human nature to overestimate the strength of an unknown opponent and assume the worst case scenario, but it isn't very useful to immediately paint yourself as the victim and give up on protecting yourself because you think it impossible to win. This is a competitive PvP game. Gankers and wardeccers are just other players, sometimes just as new and inexperienced as you are or perhaps you feel. There is much you can do fight against wardeccers, even powerful and organized ones, especially if you have numbers, and there are mechanisms built-in to the game for you to get help. And gankers, well, the mechanics of highsec give you all the cards so you can actually be near 100% safe if that is what you want with just some sacrifice of yield, or spending a little effort. Eve is designed so you are not 100% safe but that is no reason to give up on your own defense because you cannot be perfectly safe. In fact, figuring out how to protect yourself and balancing that with generating your income is the game. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Lan Wang Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 131	Posted - 2015.02.07 09:55:03 - [330] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Isnt a gank, forcing people into PVP? Not really as much as some people consider that pvp (whether its because it makes them feel like they are achieving something) its nothing more than player killing EVEALON Creative --áLogo Design \| Killboard Banners \| -áWeb Design \| Website Graphics -á



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