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t2 Battleship Concepts

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Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:16:00 - [1] In sitting around brainstorming I was considering a way to allay the problem of fleet combat being so mobile (i.e. warping in and out, etc) and at the same time provide a solid, fleet oriented combat ship for the t2 battleship role to fill (since we do not need battleship-sized HACs capable of even more damage). My idea would be an overgrown Command Ship with a module designed specifically for it (ala Siege Module for Dreads). The module would render the ship immobile (againà like a Siege Module) for two or three minutesà while providing a ranged group benefit (so you canÆt park it at a POS 100au away). The ship would have a 99% CPU reduction to the module so that only a t2 BS could fit ità and the activated module would provide a different bonus dependent upon which of the four t2 battleships it had been fitted (one moduleà but four separate bonusesà one for each of the racial battleships). The bonuses can be discussedà as there are loads of possibilitiesà but I imagine only providing defensive bonuses (cap recharge, armor rep repair amount, shield booster cycle time, etc). I also believe that they should have very limited Jump Drive capability. These ships should partner incredibly well with the defensive bonuses provided by a Command Ship. Also, I believe it would be best if the module were not capable of being activated within 500k of a stargate. These ships would require extensive skill training through the Command Ship and Leadership skill treesà not to mention the obvious t1 ship prereqsà all at 5à and toss in some other prereqs that are ship specific to the raceà that are focused on the shipÆs particular bonus. These ships would require intel to get into a fight properly (as the range would be very limitedà no more than 100k or so). The bonuses should be mightyà because the ship is going to be expensive, very difficult to train for, and dead in the water once that module is active. Howeverà it will create an anchored center for a fight to revolve around. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:37:00 - [2] Edited by: Ath Amon on 28/09/2006 04:39:23 mmmm i agree with the problem and i brainstormed a bit about it too... and i made a post with some ideas in another forum ok my post was not exactly clear, written in good english but i think that it could be interesting... my approach is a bit different, trying to limitate the use of warp during combat and using a particular ship (a capital ships) to assign positions/BMs to various fleet members. here the topic... it is in the last page... clicky as said is a bit confusing, if you want i'll repost here, maybe trying to make it a bit more clear. for the role you propose i think is interesting but i see it more fitting to dreads... to have most fleet ships immobile on the battlefield i think will make fights a bit more statics and don't change much the blob structure also the superiority of a fleet composed by these ships will be quite extreme if compared to a "normal" fleet.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:57:00 - [3] Heavy Interdictors: Uses a special gravity well mod that produces a 50km warp disruption bubble on the ship, as well as cuts the speed of everything inside by 50%. The user is rendered immobile. All 4 bonuses are tanking and interdiction replated. No offensive bonuses, because we've already got the 'bigger HAC' we didn't need, in 3 of the 4 race's CBCs. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Heavy Interdictors: Uses a special gravity well mod that produces a 50km warp disruption bubble on the ship, as well as cuts the speed of everything inside by 50%. The user is rendered immobile. All 4 bonuses are tanking and interdiction replated. No offensive bonuses, because we've already got the 'bigger HAC' we didn't need, in 3 of the 4 race's CBCs. I'm a bit against an upgraded Interdictor... as such a ship would render standard Interdictors almost useless. I'd rather see a new role introduced versus 'upgrading' a role. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Insanicus Minmatar Stormriders	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:15:00 - [5] i think the typhoon would make an awesome t2 salvage ship. lots of space to store junk inside the big barrel o' monkeys in the core of the ship. not sure what ships other races would use for this, and it might be sweet if it was like an ore ship, but just using the typhoon hull as a base.
Kanthras	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Insanicus i think the typhoon would make an awesome t2 salvage ship. lots of space to store junk inside the big barrel o' monkeys in the core of the ship. not sure what ships other races would use for this, and it might be sweet if it was like an ore ship, but just using the typhoon hull as a base. I like that idea :)
Thecle Vifargent Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:01:00 - [7] Yarr a T2 raven with gang bonus and T2 resists so no need to put any tank on it, only OMFGPWN target painters in mid and a line of BCU in low Cost : 100b. as it would be the most mission runners used ship
Therin Dracul	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:18:00 - [8] They have stated that they dont want to implement tech2/hac style resists on a battleship scale. A battleship with mods to use/bonus of gang mods would be sweet. A battleship with an interdictor type ability would be nice too. A covert type battleship would probably be pushing it, but would be super fun. Same for a jump-drive equiped bb id imagine.
Ephemeron Crimson Crusaders Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:32:00 - [9] Designing a balanced t2 battleship is rather hard. It's too easy to make it overpowered, or something that pushes another class of ships out of the game by making it useless. As I see it, right now t1 battleships dominate the battlefield. Battleships are the main force, everything else is just support. It may be possible to have T2 battleship that's designed to country t1 battleships, sort of like a Destroyer but on larger scale. Such T2 battleship, to be effective counter to normal battleships, would need to have better resists. To help define its role and prevent it from being overpowered, these battleships could come with a static penalty such as -50% gun tracking (something similar to missile boats). So it wouldn't be effective at pwning smaller ships as t1 bs do. It would need better resists to jammers, longer targeting range, but slower targeting speed, less agility, less top speed. Overall, it should be geared toward killing other t1 battleships but being too cumbersome at killing smaller ships. Perhaps a fleet of these would be a good way to defend POS against attacking dreads.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Thecle Vifargent Yarr a T2 raven with gang bonus and T2 resists so no need to put any tank on it, only OMFGPWN target painters in mid and a line of BCU in low Cost : 100b. as it would be the most mission runners used ship Someone didn't read the portion of my post regarding HAC-type damage. This would not be a high-damage ship. Originally by: Therin Dracul They have stated that they dont want to implement tech2/hac style resists on a battleship scale. I do not recall reading this. I do remember them stating that they did not want to see HAC-style uber battleships. I recall nothing about high resists. The proposed ship/module would similar to a Fleet Command Ship... with a different role. High resists, low damage, with a tremendous amount to offer in the way of gang support. The ability to fit most other types of ship specific modules would ultimately hurt gameplay. If it can fit an Interdictor Sphere Launcher then why fly an Interdictor? If it can cloak then Recons would become less useful. If it can fit Siege Warfare Links then why fly a Command Ship? This should be a Flagship... drawing upon the yet to be seeded Wing Command skill. The ship and it's bonuses should provide a lot in the way of gang assistance... while not stepping on the toes of the Fleet Command Ships. I also believe that my proposed module should anchor it in space... so that a gang should rally around the ship... within the boundaries of the bonus it provides. This will make intel and strategy far more important in fights... as dropping on top of folks and activating the proposed module will initiate a fight where strategy and coordination will provide a distinct advantage. Not simply warping in at range and sniping. Sniping will still be useful as a solid support tactic. But close range weapons (Blasters, ACs, Pulses, etc) will suddenly have a point in space around which to fight... making teamwork and communication strategically important. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Thecle Vifargent Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:09:00 - [11] Quote: Someone didn't read the portion of my post regarding HAC-type damage. This would not be a high-damage ship. Someone did not read i talk about shield resistance, not damages With a T2 class battleship (meaning more hp, more resist at least), you dont need more damage as you can gimp your tank to add some damage modules...
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:20:00 - [12] First of all, let's lay the foundation for what's not going to happen: * More than one damage bonus (or two in case of the Minmatar one) * Damage bonus, and increased hardpoints, as well as HAC-like resistances Here's a few concepts of what might, though. Centurion (damned hard to come up with a good name for this one) Jump drive 3 light years base (as mothership) Hull bonuses: As base ship Class bonuses: -50 isotopes jump drive requirement and racial tanking bonus Ships used: Apocalypse (Sarum Family), Raven (Ishukone), Megathron (Duvolle) and Tempest Flagships -99% CPU usage on gang modules (one module), HAC-like resistances Hull bonuses: As base ship Class bonuses: 2.5% Racial gang bonus (see below) Ships used: Abaddon (Carthum), Rokh (LaiDai), Hyperion (Roden NO MISSILES) and Maelstrom Racial bonuses: Amarrian capacitor capacity, Caldari shield capacity, Gallente armour amount, and Minmatar signature radius. (Same as Titans, but one third as strong bonus) Guardian +50% logistics drones efficiency with drone bays ranging from 150 to 350 metrics. Basically same bonuses as the logistics cruisers, however one signature weapon system bonus remains (as such the Dominix and Scorpion will have to hand over all their hardpoints) as well Ships used: Armageddon, Scorpion, Dominix, and Typhoon - Three years old
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:39:00 - [13] Jump drive capable, Duvolle-skinned megathron = happy days ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Insanicus i think the typhoon would make an awesome t2 salvage ship. lots of space to store junk inside the big barrel o' monkeys in the core of the ship. not sure what ships other races would use for this, and it might be sweet if it was like an ore ship, but just using the typhoon hull as a base. Typhoon and salvage? Birds of a feather Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:21:00 - [15] If you may the T2 battleship a combat monster, then it becomes 'must have' and the prices spike, and we get the same rounds of whining as about HACs. It can be a combat monster by increasing it's resists or damage output. I think that's a really bad idea, and I'm fairly confident that the devs do too. However, I've thought about the idea a bit. There's 3 things I'd like to be able to do with battleships: 1: Jumpdrive. Simple enough. T2 battleship with a 99% reduction in CPU for jumpdrive module. Works just like carriers or dreads, and is used for escort. 2: Siege mode. No, not 'dread style', where you become extremely tough but can't hit anything. I'm thinking more 20% damage, 20% resist, 20% shield and cap recharge. No speed penalty, but disables warp drive. (And persists across a gate or something, to prevent jumping through and warping right after). 3: 'Stealth' role. Covert ops cloak would be sweet, but probably a little too sick. Some kind of 'can use improved cloak well' ability would be rather nice though. (I'm thinking manticore style, and a 'good' sensor suite to compensate for the sensor resolution penalty).
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:27:00 - [16] There's several different progressions in T2 ships. Interceptors - Interdictors Covert Ops / Stealth Bombers - Recon Ships Assault Ships - Heavy Assault Ships - Field Command Ships Logistics - Fleet Command Ships It makes sense for battleships to follow along these progressions. Tier 1 BS - These would be EW boats with the ability to fit covert ops cloaks, and require Racial BS 5 and Recon Ships 4 amongst other things. Tier 2 BS - I see these as ultra-heavy tacklers. They would be able to fit a new module that generates a warp-scrambling bubble around the ship. Requires Interdictors 4, BS 5 and more. Tier 3 BS (Flagships) - Rather than letting them fit gang modules, how about 2% gang boosts per level of Flagships skill? There may be coding problems in getting this to work, of course, but I'm sure that something can be worked out. They would need Command Ships 4, BS 5 and a whole host of Leadership skills at 5 including Squadron Command to fly. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
Distrans Pech und Schwefel	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:25:00 - [17] Nice ideas comrade. Especially taking it away from the gates is a good. Btw. did some official ever mention the possibility of T2 battleships?
XGS Crimson	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Tovarishch Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Heavy Interdictors: Uses a special gravity well mod that produces a 50km warp disruption bubble on the ship, as well as cuts the speed of everything inside by 50%. The user is rendered immobile. All 4 bonuses are tanking and interdiction replated. No offensive bonuses, because we've already got the 'bigger HAC' we didn't need, in 3 of the 4 race's CBCs. I'm a bit against an upgraded Interdictor... as such a ship would render standard Interdictors almost useless. I'd rather see a new role introduced versus 'upgrading' a role. kinda like interdictor makes dessy pointless, what he means is starting on tech 3 ships. if so the frigates will need tech 3 too
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Distrans Nice ideas comrade. Especially taking it away from the gates is a good. Btw. did some official ever mention the possibility of T2 battleships? Yes, can't be arsed to fetch the link, but Oveur mentioned that "limited jump drive capability" had been discussed. That's not a promise or anything, all he promised was that there weren't ever going to be any HAC-like BShips. - Three years old
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:32:00 - [20] Originally by: XGS Crimson Originally by: Tovarishch Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Heavy Interdictors: Uses a special gravity well mod that produces a 50km warp disruption bubble on the ship, as well as cuts the speed of everything inside by 50%. The user is rendered immobile. All 4 bonuses are tanking and interdiction replated. No offensive bonuses, because we've already got the 'bigger HAC' we didn't need, in 3 of the 4 race's CBCs. I'm a bit against an upgraded Interdictor... as such a ship would render standard Interdictors almost useless. I'd rather see a new role introduced versus 'upgrading' a role. kinda like interdictor makes dessy pointless, what he means is starting on tech 3 ships. if so the frigates will need tech 3 too I believe that tech 3 is ships modification and branding, which is coming late Kali at best. In the meanwhile we'll get ship upgrades, which is sort of implants for ships. - Three years old
Severe McCald Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:43:00 - [21] I like some of these ideas, but one thing I would like the "flagship" concept to have is for anyone ganged with it to be able to warp to any point within the solar system in which the T2 BS sits. Maybe too much to ask for, but using the scanner (or scanner like control) to be able to specify a distance in the direction you are pointing and then warp. This could be very useful in battle. It would bring back the ability to warp to any object; within sight range, at least. I do not think it would remove scanning from the game, because it would be too inaccurate over long distances to land on a SS. Sev I saw a squirrel today jumping from one tree to another, the branch it landed on snapped. So the squirrel was on this falling branch, clambering like mad, thinking it was doing something about it.'
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:47:00 - [22] Tova, this idea fits quite nicely into my idea of gang hierachies. What if there were a T2 Battleship class, the Flagship. Following the current T2 trend it would have HAC/CS style resists, and be able to use gang mods. I suspect the bonus over Command Ships would simply be that Flagships get a better bonus to Gang Mods carried (over the 2% bonus-per-level of Command Ships), or through the introduction of T2 Gang Mods. Combine that with my idea of gangs, you then make it a tactical advantage of finding and taking out the pilot in the Flagship. For the lazy, doing so under my idea would limit gang size to the skill of the gang leader, kill the leader and the gang disbands (or temporarily looses its gang bonuses). Thus your idea, of Flagship Gang Mods effectively putting the flagship into siege mode (cannot warp, jump, etc whilst the mod is active) works very well. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.09.28 12:53:00 - [23] Puppetmaster. Can link up with 3 new probes launched from covert ops frigs. These probes take more time to scan than regular probes, but once they're online, they stay online for 30 or 60 minutes. They take 10 minutes to scan, -10% per level of Puppetmaster and can be destroyed. Once they're linked, all gang mates can see the entire system as if they were all using scan probes. While this is in effect, the BS can't move or cloak, but is otherwise normal. The BS can also set waypoints for squadrons by right clicking on things in space which every member in that squadron would get notified of. That squadron could then warp to that location. Ship bonuses, same as base ship. Puppetmaster bonuses, 10% / level reduction in scan duration, 10% / level to some tanking bonus when scanning is active --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Ralus eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.28 13:04:00 - [24] Jump drive enabled bs's would be best imo, same damage output as normal bs's just much increased mobility
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.09.28 13:06:00 - [25] Jumpdrives are a priviledge of the capital class. And they dont gain moility by jumpdrives, you need a cyno, your mobility is actually hindered, unless you place a dozen alts around you. It is good that you are not paranoid, yet, they might still be after you.
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 13:26:00 - [26] Flagships with a less powerful Siege module. Tank like crazy, give crazy gang bonuses.
Phenom Fighter Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.28 13:29:00 - [27] ur going to see tech 3 on modules, frigs and cruisers before they even think about a tech 2 BS. If they brought out a tech 2 BS any time soon it would really naff PvP up, even PvE too -----------------------------
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.09.28 13:58:00 - [28] a destroyer like ship ment to kill battleships, just make Tech 2 Destroyers(imo Interdictors are not part of the destroyer class they just borrow the frame) with a limited number of launcher points for torpedo launchers. called them Torpedo Destroyers or Patrol Ships.
Cupdeez	Posted - 2006.09.28 14:38:00 - [29] 1. I think the T2 Battleships should get the Hac like resistence just like all the t2 ships... Dev's want battles to last longer and whats better then a good tank.. 2. They should get the dame damage output as a t1 Battleship like the mega/temp/raven style ships. 3. The 3rd is a gang module that give a bounce that a command ship / Carrier can not give. Say a bounce to all Web and scrabler range to everyone in the gang. This solves 3 problems in my eyes... Makes fights last longer because of high resitences and the same damage output as a normal BS. It also helps with the fact that everyship in the gang gets a bounce to web/scrable/Bubble efftive range.. Makes them a very good ship but not so uber that t1 BS are pointless Bounce might look like this Battleship bounce - 5% damage per lvl, 5% traking bounce per lvl Battleship assult - 10% bounce to Battle assult gang module and 10% bounce to armor repair per lvl.. and the resistences would be on par with a t2 hac. only 3 battle assult gang modules are Webbies, Scrablers, inderdictor bubble range. Only 1 of these could be fitted and would cost the ship atleast 2 turret/launcher spots. So the damage output would be less then a t1 battleship.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.28 14:56:00 - [30] If you make a BS with HAC resists, it will become a 'must have' item, and serve as the solo pwnmobile that everyone wants to avoid.

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