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Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Well, the answer is very simple. Not all fonts, in fact not most will work within the eve framework. See, when you have a popup window, and you've changed the font, and now you can't read the end of the message because it doesn't fit in the window you are going to be upset. Same goes for market or anything else. The font has to fit into the game, and that means the font has to be pretty small overall. Which is why we are complaining in the first place. If you could change the font, that chances are you wouldn't like any font that would work. And wouldn't like using non-working fonts... Just imagine " Your 425mm Hybrid T2 rail perfectly strike Gurisata saba...." Or even worse... on market... 425mm hybrid .... now, which one is that? t2? Scout? Prototype gauss? well ****. It was never a problem before when we could use custom fonts by 0lly. They worked quite well, there where a few places where it would run over (Mostly on small buttons) but fairly rarly. -------- Sig removed, please keep your sig EVE related as per the forum rules, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus It was EVE related!!
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:45:00 - [32] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Eternal Fury I have to ask this of the Dev team. WHY THE HELL can you not just put in an option to pick the font from a list of the fonts you guys have used in the past. I mean seriously. Some have been good, some bad. Some work for some people but not others. This has got to be one of the simpler things you guys could change. I mean seriously now. Well, the answer is very simple. Not all fonts, in fact not most will work within the eve framework. See, when you have a popup window, and you've changed the font, and now you can't read the end of the message because it doesn't fit in the window you are going to be upset. Same goes for market or anything else. The font has to fit into the game, and that means the font has to be pretty small overall. Which is why we are complaining in the first place. If you could change the font, that chances are you wouldn't like any font that would work. And wouldn't like using non-working fonts... Just imagine " Your 425mm Hybrid T2 rail perfectly strike Gurisata saba...." Or even worse... on market... 425mm hybrid .... now, which one is that? t2? Scout? Prototype gauss? well ****. And sizing windows according to text width has been width us for how long exactly ?
Ishahn Minmatar Omacron Militia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Max Hardcase Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Xorus Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself Er you are kidding me right? Have your interface designers never heard of iterative design? Have you guys seen useit.com? You've heard the name Jakob Nielson yeah? The EVE interface is, IMO, terrible in a 100 different ways. I pray that one day you'll redesign it with some attention paid to human psychology, modern interface design concepts, extensive user testing and observation and by collecting clear, specific feedback from your playerbase. The entire right-click menu, just for starters, is an appalling piece of clunky design that creates so many more problems than it solves. The very idea of menu items actually moving depending on context makes me cringe and has led to me losing ships before. And that's just for starters.... YOU guys may think the UI is fine, but I suggest that's because you're just got used to it. That doesn't mean it's inherently user-friendly, intuitive nor consistent. Ding ding we have a winner here. UI wish list : Ability to move currently fixed UI items around the screen. namely : overview, ship interface. Ability to spawn multiple overviews with seperate settings. Proper multi monitor support ( with various options like using a 2nd screen just for overview, chat etc) Proper fonts for HIGH RESOLUTIONS absolutely!
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:15:00 - [34] Edited by: spurious signal on 29/09/2006 18:17:08 Originally by: Anatolius The problem with UI is, for all the whining of usability studies and Jakob Nielson and all the 'OMG INTUITION' pundits, people think differently. And not in the trendy follow-the-herd Apple way. Bad thing happens when anyone pays any attention to these people. (Look at the state of Linux desktop environments. ) Very true, more customisability is the way forward, and that's something I feel should be part of a good UI design. I'm not a Nielson-above-all-others pundit by any means, his was the only name that I could think of while at work XML-based UI's that allow a huge range over user control over the layout and functioning are definitely the best solution but they have to be done properly. WoW's interface is great but IMO has too much customisation built into it - every patch meant re-installing every UI mod after the 2 week wait for the mod authors to recode them all after Blizzard screwed them up with the patcy
Bethanor d'Lioncourt Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:29:00 - [35] By the way, can we get an update from the Dev's regarding the font issue? It's been several weeks now since the Austin developer conference...
Encad Briht Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:30:00 - [36] I am fine with the UI, the font .... well maybe someone can convince him to design a font for EVE .... --------------------------------------- Member of UU : Diplomatic Corps
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Max Hardcase And sizing windows according to text width has been width us for how long exactly ? AFAIK that ability is not part of EVE. EVE is not a website. You can't just resize things however you see fit. There are serious implications for that. And frankly, if you aren't familar with the ACID test for browsers, you probably don't even know what I'm talking about anyway. I'm not saying I don't want to see better UI options, including fonts. I'm just saying it's not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
ZiggyX	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:49:00 - [38] I WISH the Eve UI was as flexible as WoW. The reason I played, and stayed wwith WoW for so long, even after it became boring raid-tastic, was because I was never bored of the UI. I loved changing and tweaking my UI all the time. Anyone remember Flexbar? Titanpanel? MoveAnything? Those were some of the most amazing mods, that allowed you to make the UI look like absolutely anything. If you had two screenshots, one of the original WoW UI, and my custom UI, you would be like "Whoa.." Also, they even had simple mods, like CTMoD, that were made for beginners that only wanted a few basic changes to the UI. Not only that, check out the WoW UI forums. Amazing. No other gaming forum has brought out so much talent and innovation with UI design. There's hundreds of free development that goes on in that forum, with awesome response from the free developers. Not to mention Slouken, the WoW developer in charge of the UI, has an absolute blast there. He's probably the only WoW developer that actually enjoys being a part of the WoW forums. The UI in Guild Wars doesn't offer any advanced customization, that I know of, but at least it offers the bare essentials of customizing and moving 'everything' in the UI. The saddest thing, is booting up Eve Online, and feeling like I'm back in the stone age. I thought this game was about going into the great future?
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:54:00 - [39] Edited by: Exiled One on 29/09/2006 18:54:53 Originally by: ZiggyX I WISH the Eve UI was as flexible as WoW. The reason I played, and stayed wwith WoW for so long, even after it became boring raid-tastic, was because I was never bored of the UI. I loved changing and tweaking my UI all the time. Anyone remember Flexbar? Titanpanel? MoveAnything? Those were some of the most amazing mods, that allowed you to make the UI look like absolutely anything. If you had two screenshots, one of the original WoW UI, and my custom UI, you would be like "Whoa.." Also, they even had simple mods, like CTMoD, that were made for beginners that only wanted a few basic changes to the UI. Not only that, check out the WoW UI forums. Amazing. No other gaming forum has brought out so much talent and innovation with UI design. There's hundreds of free development that goes on in that forum, with awesome response from the free developers. Not to mention Slouken, the WoW developer in charge of the UI, has an absolute blast there. He's probably the only WoW developer that actually enjoys being a part of the WoW forums. The UI in Guild Wars doesn't offer any advanced customization, that I know of, but at least it offers the bare essentials of customizing and moving 'everything' in the UI. The saddest thing, is booting up Eve Online, and feeling like I'm back in the stone age. I thought this game was about going into the great future? Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower.
Gavriila	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:54:00 - [40] lol
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Bethanor d'Lioncourt By the way, can we get an update from the Dev's regarding the font issue? It's been several weeks now since the Austin developer conference... The phrase with the words "Breath" , "Hold" , "Dont" and "Your" in it, immediately spring to mind. Imho . the 'Mephysto request' was only ever done as a placebo placation exercise. With recent the screen grabs from the devs blogs on Kali - only showing that they are becomming more and more dependant on Captial Lettering and double / triple spacing. cough metrics splutter (you can see this for yourself if you open up the pickles file btw) Would be nice to see some response from the devs. but who am I kidding. 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:04:00 - [42] Originally by: ZiggyX I WISH the Eve UI was as flexible as WoW. The reason I played, and stayed wwith WoW for so long, even after it became boring raid-tastic, was because I was never bored of the UI. I loved changing and tweaking my UI all the time. Anyone remember Flexbar? Titanpanel? MoveAnything? Those were some of the most amazing mods, that allowed you to make the UI look like absolutely anything. If you had two screenshots, one of the original WoW UI, and my custom UI, you would be like "Whoa.." Also, they even had simple mods, like CTMoD, that were made for beginners that only wanted a few basic changes to the UI. Not only that, check out the WoW UI forums. Amazing. No other gaming forum has brought out so much talent and innovation with UI design. There's hundreds of free development that goes on in that forum, with awesome response from the free developers. Not to mention Slouken, the WoW developer in charge of the UI, has an absolute blast there. He's probably the only WoW developer that actually enjoys being a part of the WoW forums. The UI in Guild Wars doesn't offer any advanced customization, that I know of, but at least it offers the bare essentials of customizing and moving 'everything' in the UI. The saddest thing, is booting up Eve Online, and feeling like I'm back in the stone age. I thought this game was about going into the great future? Let me distinguish something for you. You aren't looking for a customizable UI. You are looking for a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap. Most of us don't care if we can add textures to drop down boxes or if we can make our own icons. We just want to move things around a bit and set up different UI's for different tasks. If eve were like guild wars, this thread wouldn't be here. Moving things, adding and removing elements and setting basic color and transperency affects is pretty much all we need in eve. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Let me distinguish something for you. You aren't looking for a customizable UI. You are looking for a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap. Most of us don't care if we can add textures to drop down boxes or if we can make our own icons. We just want to move things around a bit and set up different UI's for different tasks. If eve were like guild wars, this thread wouldn't be here. Moving things, adding and removing elements and setting basic color and transperency affects is pretty much all we need in eve. Spot the person who has no idea what they're talking about. Have you ever even seen the WoW UI? It's the most customisable UI I have ever used. There are literally 1000's of player-written mods available for it that add functionality, provide total control over the whole UI and give access to parts of the WoW code that the basic interface goes nowhere near. Quite a lot more than just being "a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap." You are correct however in that we don't need that level of control in EVE, but an XML based, user-controllable UI would be a great way to acheive the things you suggest.
Rina Shanu Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Dark Shikari You're not allowed to, but I doubt they'll permaban you if they catch you--more likely a warning or tempban. However, there's an easier solution: play at a lower resolution with the Expanded font option. I am just very very curious as to how will they catch you and than ban you if you modify the text font in the client ? Does the client send this particular information, the information of what text font you use, back to server? And if it does, why the hell would it, to create more lag? Think it's a rather useless peace of information to send. my sig sucks
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:10:00 - [45] This might seem kinda stupid but as far as people not wanting to learn basic XML to make their own UI, thats the beauty of EVE...you could just pay some1 to do it for you :D Anyway basically it could mean a new "career" in EVE as a POD Interface Design Consultant \o/ lol
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:17:00 - [46] Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Locke DieDrake Let me distinguish something for you. You aren't looking for a customizable UI. You are looking for a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap. Most of us don't care if we can add textures to drop down boxes or if we can make our own icons. We just want to move things around a bit and set up different UI's for different tasks. If eve were like guild wars, this thread wouldn't be here. Moving things, adding and removing elements and setting basic color and transperency affects is pretty much all we need in eve. Spot the person who has no idea what they're talking about. Have you ever even seen the WoW UI? It's the most customisable UI I have ever used. There are literally 1000's of player-written mods available for it that add functionality, provide total control over the whole UI and give access to parts of the WoW code that the basic interface goes nowhere near. Quite a lot more than just being "a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap." You are correct however in that we don't need that level of control in EVE, but an XML based, user-controllable UI would be a great way to acheive the things you suggest. Ok I'll admit that I don't really know anything about the wow interface. Except that it's full of little colorful buttons. What I do know is that providing entirely custom systems like that can open up new problems. Much the way macro's and uber keyboards give advantages that they shouldn't. I'd like to see a better interface for eve. But I doubt the answer is going to be found in WOW. Or guild wars or any other game that uses a totally different basis for play. But here is to hoping. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
zeKzn Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Much the way macro's and uber keyboards give advantages that they shouldn't. Macros and keyboards are completely seperate issues. Macros give advantages today, as is obvious to anyone who looks at the ice field in lustrevik, and so do keyboards, to some extent. Frankly there's no way to entirely foolproof a program against macros being created for it, same as there's no way to entirely secure anything against intruders; if people want in, they'll get in. But keyboards? For one, if someone is willing to pay for a keyboard that gives advantages, then who are you to say that they shouldn't get that advantage? Secondly, considering EVE's UI now, that "advantages" comment applies to mice as well, and nobody complains that another player gets an advantage for having an $80 mouse instead of some generic crap. If you dont want to pay for the advantage, you have no right to have equal playing fields. _________ zeKzn
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 22:57:00 - [48] Originally by: zeKzn Originally by: Locke DieDrake Much the way macro's and uber keyboards give advantages that they shouldn't. Macros and keyboards are completely seperate issues. Macros give advantages today, as is obvious to anyone who looks at the ice field in lustrevik, and so do keyboards, to some extent. Frankly there's no way to entirely foolproof a program against macros being created for it, same as there's no way to entirely secure anything against intruders; if people want in, they'll get in. But keyboards? For one, if someone is willing to pay for a keyboard that gives advantages, then who are you to say that they shouldn't get that advantage? Secondly, considering EVE's UI now, that "advantages" comment applies to mice as well, and nobody complains that another player gets an advantage for having an $80 mouse instead of some generic crap. If you dont want to pay for the advantage, you have no right to have equal playing fields. So if I go spend 140$ on a DX1 input system and I program a bunch of keys to do complex actions, like a single key "locks, orbits and puts scram,web,and all guns on a target" thats ok with you? I'm not talking about having a good keyboard versus a bad keyboard, I'm talking about G15's with built macro recording. Or DX1's that are fully programable. There is no differance what so ever between a software macro and a hardware macro. It's cheating, either way. (actually, CCP says not. But I think they just haven't really looked at the situation) And your "you payed for it so you can use it" line is a bunch of ****. I payed for a suite a macro software for my job. Should I be able to use that in EVE? Why not, whats the differance? ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:01:00 - [49] I think the reasoning is simple: keyboards requires input (player presence), macros can run without input. - Three years old
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Ithildin I think the reasoning is simple: keyboards requires input (player presence), macros can run without input. /me smacks forehead on desk. F**k it. I can't be bothered anymore. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Locke DieDrake So if I go spend 140$ on a DX1 input system and I program a bunch of keys to do complex actions, like a single key "locks, orbits and puts scram,web,and all guns on a target" thats ok with you? I'm not talking about having a good keyboard versus a bad keyboard, I'm talking about G15's with built macro recording. Or DX1's that are fully programable. How do you do that with a G15? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
xaix ikkul	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:12:00 - [52] I have a lcd monitor with a native resolution of 1280x1024 and I have to play the game at 1024x768 because I can't read the fonts at higher resolution. a option to increase the global font size would be nice.
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:26:00 - [53] Sorry to all you GUI posters out there . why not go post your own thread about programmable Gui s. The OP has asked about the font. Not wether or not, it is easy enough to manipulate a gui for macro enhancement or which keyboard or programs you run to facilitate such 'enhancements' Yes it is an emotive subject. However it has nothing to do with the post. Please keep the font ( and only the font) issues away from your torments Kindest Regards 0lly ( PS. take note of my site for there might be something interesting on it Soon (TM)) If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Locke DieDrake So if I go spend 140$ on a DX1 input system and I program a bunch of keys to do complex actions, like a single key "locks, orbits and puts scram,web,and all guns on a target" thats ok with you? I'm not talking about having a good keyboard versus a bad keyboard, I'm talking about G15's with built macro recording. Or DX1's that are fully programable. How do you do that with a G15? Out of the box? You have to leave off the lock target and orbit commands. With some additional software, easily. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:34:00 - [55] Originally by: 0lly Sorry to all you GUI posters out there . why not go post your own thread about programmable Gui s. The OP has asked about the font. Not wether or not, it is easy enough to manipulate a gui for macro enhancement or which keyboard or programs you run to facilitate such 'enhancements' Yes it is an emotive subject. However it has nothing to do with the post. Please keep the font ( and only the font) issues away from your torments Kindest Regards 0lly ( PS. take note of my site for there might be something interesting on it Soon (TM)) No. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
ParMizaN Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:38:00 - [56] Send a mail to Kieron; it's quite an easy thing to update and someting worth looking into. sig edited for lack of pink really PINK -eris Pink is overrated, yellow is the new pink - Xorus XORUS!!1 HEATHEN KILLKILLKILLKILLKILL - Immy
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:40:00 - [57] Edited by: 0lly on 29/09/2006 23:43:11 Ah alas pre pubescent hormonal influneces are no doubt to the fore. So I have wasted my time in explaining that forum threads when they start to get a tad diverese . are usually locked by the ISD community. and the essence of the thread then enters the realm of the padlocked Genre. One which immediately becomes null and void to the Devs?. 0lly Edit - one of these days ill learn to spell. If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Hyo Velka	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Exiled One Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower. So you discredit a perfectly valid point, simply because he plays WoW? Some people are painfully ignorant, and I'm happy to inform you that you've just joined the club.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Hyo Velka Originally by: Exiled One Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower. So you discredit a perfectly valid point, simply because he plays WoW? Some people are painfully ignorant, and I'm happy to inform you that you've just joined the club. They play wow, they compare wow to eve, they want to bring **** from wow to eve. You want a dumbed down version of eve?
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:42:00 - [60] Originally by: 0lly Edited by: 0lly on 29/09/2006 23:43:11 Ah alas pre pubescent hormonal influneces are no doubt to the fore. So I have wasted my time in explaining that forum threads when they start to get a tad diverese . are usually locked by the ISD community. and the essence of the thread then enters the realm of the padlocked Genre. One which immediately becomes null and void to the Devs?. 0lly Edit - one of these days ill learn to spell. Spare me the hollier than thou aproach. You clearly have a pet peeve about the in game font. Fine. Whatever. But please don't come on a FORUM and try and limit the discussion. It's stupid and ignorant of the way things really work. Look, I get that you don't like the font, and you think it should be changed. There are ways to get that done. They do not include this forum. Email various devs, create a virutal petition. But no single thread has ever "caught" the attention of a dev. And it's pretty insulting to the devs that you imply they aren't capable of reading past the crap to get to your point. Or that your point is somehow more important than other (semi) related issues. The discussion in this thread turned from the font to the UI in general, and then to macros, which if you don't know are directly related to the UI, which is related to the Font. Diversity is not the problem, flaming is what gets a thread locked. Talking about a group of related issues is not flaming. However, trying to indirectly call me a pre pubescent is in fact flaming, or a the least, flame bait. So lets see if you can practice what you preach. I'm not going to flame you back. I've explained why your request was foolhardy. Now lets see if you can steer this thread back into the place you demand it go to. Oh, and if you call me pre pubcent again, I'm sending my kids to your house for the weekend. Because you obviously lack perspective. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________

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