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Amee Tindre	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:37:00 - [1] Has anyone really been banned for changing font in EVE? I love the game but I am getting a freaking headache trying to read it when I play in 1600x1200 res. Also, how do I find these "mods" with fonts that people have made? There are no links in this forums (for obvious reasons) but I would love to get my hands on new fonts so I can enjoy this game without headache. Maybe Eve is sponsored by a headache pill company? //Amee Tindre
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 29/09/2006 12:40:44 Modding the client is against the EULA you agree to every time you play the game. Not sure how that applies to fonts though. Yes the font is not great but a rule is a rule. Edit typo ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:43:00 - [3] You're not allowed to, but I doubt they'll permaban you if they catch you--more likely a warning or tempban. However, there's an easier solution: play at a lower resolution with the Expanded font option. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Amee Tindre	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Dark Shikari However, there's an easier solution: play at a lower resolution with the Expanded font option. That wouldn't work for me, I have a hard time finding space to put all my chat windows and other windows at it is. I just want a new font. I have no clue why on earth they don't allow us to change the font to whatever we feel like or at least BOLD and set SIZE to whatever we like?

Xorus Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:55:00 - [5] As was pointed out changing any part of the EVE client is against the EULA and you risk a ban for doing it, you will not find links to any such "mods" on this forum and posting any is prohibited. --- Wanna Buy a Goat??- Tirg Member of the 'Kaemonn is My Hero' club Member of the "Immy's Bald Head Appreciation Society" Xorus is currenly off duty counting trees in Siberia. -Ivan K How much is that goaty in the window, baaa baaaa - Cortes (Secretary, Bald Head Appreciation Society)

ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:56:00 - [6] Aye there should be the ability to change the font by now. As the current system has more negative issues than positive ones.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:57:00 - [7] I also struggle on one of my computers since I have an LCD monitor with a native 1600x1200 resolution. Playing in a lower res on this particular monitor is unbearable because of the rubbish downsampling (or whatever the term is) and I already use the expanded font, it's still almost impossible to read. Please CCP, give us some font options
Yumi Katanawe Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:06:00 - [8] Eventually, the devs become stubborn in all mmorpgs. In other games they insist on absurd corpse runs or xp debts. In EVE, we are stuck with crappy fonts and a circa 1996 UI. Don't you dare touch the fonts! Having barely readable text is essential to the universe! omg!

Xorus Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Yumi Katanawe Eventually, the devs become stubborn in all mmorpgs. In other games they insist on absurd corpse runs or xp debts. In EVE, we are stuck with crappy fonts and a circa 1996 UI. Don't you dare touch the fonts! Having barely readable text is essential to the universe! omg! Did you ever see the original UI that was circa 1996 this ones beter by far than the first one, was awful to use and got you killed a lot of the time or atleast it got me killed a lot Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself although as screen sizes have gone up over the ages the font starts to look a little small on large resolutions these days, the dev's do read the forum so offer lots of beer at the fanfest and you might get your wish :P --- Wanna Buy a Goat??- Tirg Member of the 'Kaemonn is My Hero' club Member of the "Immy's Bald Head Appreciation Society" Xorus is currenly off duty counting trees in Siberia. -Ivan K How much is that goaty in the window, baaa baaaa - Cortes (Secretary, Bald Head Appreciation Society)

Nin Tindre	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Xorus the dev's do read the forum so offer lots of beer at the fanfest and you might get your wish :P More beer for the devs!! Go go! BUT not until they fix it or they might forget it...
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:31:00 - [11] The font has not changed at all since RMR was first released. - The pages were full of complaints about the font . And CCP listened and changed the rendering engine. and thats it. The font files have never been changed since. The evesansmm.pfb is still used in it original form . except now its been put in the Res.stuff file. Only to stop the simple modification that many many users were using pre dragon. As to listening to complaints on this subject, with respect to Mr ISD. CCP just dont want to know nor do they really care. They send out a Dev into the forums with the "bug report it" message. As to follow up questions about the bug reports the last was basically - "Ive just come back from X game show and know nothing due to jet lag". Yes I believe the change to the font is comming. but I seriously doubt it will be via official channels. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league E.R.A	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:33:00 - [12] Having played some other MMOs I can say that EvE is far behind the other games I played when it comes to the player interface. For example, in DAOC the interface was regularly upgraded and it was XML based. This in turn made custom GUIs possible. These GUIs were totally player driven but they often offered alot over the standard GUI. For example there was the healers helper for healing classes, minimized status windows, new group bars with condensed information that allowed the player to have access to vital data without cluttering the screen. Not to mention the simple possibility to change your keyboard shortcuts, to make simple targetting macros etc. (this actually has nothing to do with the GUI, it was part of the normal interface) For those that dont know how it works there was a simple macro that would let you assist on another players target. After making the macro you could then use it to acquire the target of the person you wanted to assist. Such simple expansions to the user interface really mean alot, and from what I have seen so far CCP seems to be wery far behind in this area when it comes to EvE. The custom GUIs made by the community was not a prerequesite to play the game effectively, but they helped, custom fonts was a wery minor thing and I must say I think its a pity that we are stuck with such rigid rules and no flexibility in EvE. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ? And please fix the Javelin T2 rail ammunition...
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:37:00 - [13] Just give us an override folder with certain lesser aspects of the game that we're allowed to modify. Make the game fetch, for example, fonts from that folder. By lesser, I mean aesthetic contents only. - Three years old
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Xorus Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself Er you are kidding me right? Have your interface designers never heard of iterative design? Have you guys seen useit.com? You've heard the name Jakob Nielson yeah? The EVE interface is, IMO, terrible in a 100 different ways. I pray that one day you'll redesign it with some attention paid to human psychology, modern interface design concepts, extensive user testing and observation and by collecting clear, specific feedback from your playerbase. The entire right-click menu, just for starters, is an appalling piece of clunky design that creates so many more problems than it solves. The very idea of menu items actually moving depending on context makes me cringe and has led to me losing ships before. And that's just for starters.... YOU guys may think the UI is fine, but I suggest that's because you're just got used to it. That doesn't mean it's inherently user-friendly, intuitive nor consistent.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:49:00 - [15] Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Xorus Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself Er you are kidding me right? Have your interface designers never heard of iterative design? Have you guys seen useit.com? You've heard the name Jakob Nielson yeah? The EVE interface is, IMO, terrible in a 100 different ways. I pray that one day you'll redesign it with some attention paid to human psychology, modern interface design concepts, extensive user testing and observation and by collecting clear, specific feedback from your playerbase. The entire right-click menu, just for starters, is an appalling piece of clunky design that creates so many more problems than it solves. The very idea of menu items actually moving depending on context makes me cringe and has led to me losing ships before. And that's just for starters.... YOU guys may think the UI is fine, but I suggest that's because you're just got used to it. That doesn't mean it's inherently user-friendly, intuitive nor consistent. Ding ding we have a winner here. UI wish list : Ability to move currently fixed UI items around the screen. namely : overview, ship interface. Ability to spawn multiple overviews with seperate settings. Proper multi monitor support ( with various options like using a 2nd screen just for overview, chat etc) Proper fonts for HIGH RESOLUTIONS
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:58:00 - [16] Sorry but in reply to the OP . Of the 2000+ people who visited Here And of the many hundreds who had contacted me personally before the site . I never heard of one who had been banned. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Burlock Ironfist Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Burlock Ironfist on 29/09/2006 14:09:34 Originally by: 0lly Sorry but in reply to the OP . Of the 2000+ people who visited Here And of the many hundreds who had contacted me personally before the site . I never heard of one who had been banned. Regards 0lly but you will probably get a forum warnign for posting that link since its against forums rules Quote: you will not find links to any such "mods" on this forum and posting any is prohibited BOOBIES!
Khabok Dark Lancers	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:20:00 - [18] Nah, he won't even get a warning. The link to that page is to information that is no longer relevent to the alteration of the interface. For the ADD kids: Them ways don't work no more. Khabok There are only four things in life.The first one is Love: Cherish that one, and keep it safe, for the other three are Fear, Hatred, and Sorrow.
Shiraz Merlot Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:42:00 - [19] Earlier this year I switched my ssh logins, development IDEs etc to Profont and never looked back. Wish Eve could get a decent font. Personally I suspect we get a lousy font to mess up macroing screen-scraper software that can't tell the difference between 0 and O, 1 and l etc. and I hope we never get a programmable UI. shudder what a horrible time-sink that'd be.
DOGNOSH Minmatar SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Xorus the dev's do read the forum so offer lots of beer at the fanfest and you might get your wish :P as long as you ignore my sig when i see you in november mmmm pink Eris will approve - Xorus Xorus has been webbified - DOGNOSH
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:51:00 - [21] well this is a major side effect of the crappy font notice the max targeting range bug Linkage
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Shiraz Merlot Earlier this year I switched my ssh logins, development IDEs etc to Profont and never looked back. Wish Eve could get a decent font. Personally I suspect we get a lousy font to mess up macroing screen-scraper software that can't tell the difference between 0 and O, 1 and l etc. and I hope we never get a programmable UI. shudder what a horrible time-sink that'd be. Personally, I find Profont a bit lacklustre and annoying. Best thing is to get OPTIONS, which for some reason seems a bit hard for CCP to implement. Whenever they talk about the font, I get the feeling that they are trying to change the font, all of it, to something that's the same for everyone. Why not a simple option to select a font set? Press the option that suits you best. "o Impact (compact fonts) o Federation (broad and spacious fonts) o Verdana (simplistic and rounded fonts) o etc etc" - Three years old
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 15:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Max Hardcase Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Xorus Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself Er you are kidding me right? Have your interface designers never heard of iterative design? Have you guys seen useit.com? You've heard the name Jakob Nielson yeah? The EVE interface is, IMO, terrible in a 100 different ways. I pray that one day you'll redesign it with some attention paid to human psychology, modern interface design concepts, extensive user testing and observation and by collecting clear, specific feedback from your playerbase. The entire right-click menu, just for starters, is an appalling piece of clunky design that creates so many more problems than it solves. The very idea of menu items actually moving depending on context makes me cringe and has led to me losing ships before. And that's just for starters.... YOU guys may think the UI is fine, but I suggest that's because you're just got used to it. That doesn't mean it's inherently user-friendly, intuitive nor consistent. Ding ding we have a winner here. UI wish list : Ability to move currently fixed UI items around the screen. namely : overview, ship interface. Ability to spawn multiple overviews with seperate settings. Proper multi monitor support ( with various options like using a 2nd screen just for overview, chat etc) Proper fonts for HIGH RESOLUTIONS DEVS go play guild wars for a week. Then come back and design an entirely new UI. Guild wars, more than any game I've played in years has an incredible UI. It's entirely customizable, and most importantly, it's easy to use and CLEARLY shows whats going on. And it uses the "desktop" princaple just like eve does. The UI needs some love. And we have been getting it in bits and pieces. (the map fixes a while back, the new scanning system, etc etc) ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Eternal Fury Caldari Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2006.09.29 16:15:00 - [24] I have to ask this of the Dev team. WHY THE HELL can you not just put in an option to pick the font from a list of the fonts you guys have used in the past. I mean seriously. Some have been good, some bad. Some work for some people but not others. This has got to be one of the simpler things you guys could change. I mean seriously now.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.29 16:34:00 - [25] Originally by: spurious signal YOU guys may think the UI is fine, but I suggest that's because you're just got used to it. That doesn't mean it's inherently user-friendly, intuitive nor consistent. The only intuitive interface is the nipple; everything else is learned. Someone earlier mentioned DAoC switching to an XML-based UI. EQ did that long before, and it was one of the greatest things to ever happen to a game. I'm still appalled that it didn't become the de facto standard in MMOG design within a week of it originally being implemented. The problem with UI is, for all the whining of usability studies and Jakob Nielson and all the 'OMG INTUITION' pundits, people think differently. And not in the trendy follow-the-herd Apple way. Bad thing happens when anyone pays any attention to these people. (Look at the state of Linux desktop environments. ) All that said, the EVE UI is hardly the prize winning worst UI ever. As much as I like it, though, even I have nits to pick. But the problem is, what makes to sense to me may be strange and frightening to you. The obvious solution is making UIs customizable. While it ends up requiring some rather basic programming knowledge to make the UI do what you want, chances are if you can't be arsed to learn basic XML, someone out there will think along the same lines you do. There's a greater chance of making more people happy, as it were. At least far greater than having some nutjob sitting in an office saying, "Well, six out of ten people think a person should click there, so let's make it so you have to click there!" "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Kim Chee Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.29 16:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Eternal Fury I have to ask this of the Dev team. WHY THE HELL can you not just put in an option to pick the font from a list of the fonts you guys have used in the past. I'm not part of the Dev team, nor do I play one on TV, but... From the way things have changed from patch to patch over the last year, I suspect many parts of the UI are nailed down by pixel offsets from various other parts of the UI. This would include text labels. Thus, if you change the font, the alignment of other things get out of whack. I'm hoping that the "vista" client will finally redesign the way the screen is rendered so it's fully scalable. That's one of the things that other game did get right. I can change resolution from 800x600 all the way to 1600x1200 and the font stays the same size on the screen. I can adjust the scaling factor of the entire UI and dropping the resolution only makes things look fuzzy (as there aren't enough pixels to render everything anymore). Good idea. CCP should borrow it. <=----=> *Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon*: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:15:00 - [27] Yeah the EVE IU is just awful in so many ways, not even going to go there. It's sad to see EVE so far behind every other MMOs/ORPGs etc. EVEs UI has to be the worst I have ever used. One of the best would be the GW UI, and WoW just a bit after, as you can mod it to do anything you want, which is so nice. The font or horrible as well, I use 1600x1200 res and it is so hard to read anything. It's not like I have a bad monitor either! It's a ViewSonic Graphics Series. =( -------- Sig removed, please keep your sig EVE related as per the forum rules, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus It was EVE related!!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:20:00 - [28] I think EVE's font should be changed to wingdings so people stop complaining about not being able to read it. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Eternal Fury I have to ask this of the Dev team. WHY THE HELL can you not just put in an option to pick the font from a list of the fonts you guys have used in the past. I mean seriously. Some have been good, some bad. Some work for some people but not others. This has got to be one of the simpler things you guys could change. I mean seriously now. Well, the answer is very simple. Not all fonts, in fact not most will work within the eve framework. See, when you have a popup window, and you've changed the font, and now you can't read the end of the message because it doesn't fit in the window you are going to be upset. Same goes for market or anything else. The font has to fit into the game, and that means the font has to be pretty small overall. Which is why we are complaining in the first place. If you could change the font, that chances are you wouldn't like any font that would work. And wouldn't like using non-working fonts... Just imagine " Your 425mm Hybrid T2 rail perfectly strike Gurisata saba...." Or even worse... on market... 425mm hybrid .... now, which one is that? t2? Scout? Prototype gauss? well ****. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Yumi Katanawe Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:42:00 - [30] Yeah, wasn't in the 80's that they developed windows that self adjusted according to text size? Don't you dare touch the font! The UI will explode and melt your screen! omg! ps: wth's going on with session handling.
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Well, the answer is very simple. Not all fonts, in fact not most will work within the eve framework. See, when you have a popup window, and you've changed the font, and now you can't read the end of the message because it doesn't fit in the window you are going to be upset. Same goes for market or anything else. The font has to fit into the game, and that means the font has to be pretty small overall. Which is why we are complaining in the first place. If you could change the font, that chances are you wouldn't like any font that would work. And wouldn't like using non-working fonts... Just imagine " Your 425mm Hybrid T2 rail perfectly strike Gurisata saba...." Or even worse... on market... 425mm hybrid .... now, which one is that? t2? Scout? Prototype gauss? well ****. It was never a problem before when we could use custom fonts by 0lly. They worked quite well, there where a few places where it would run over (Mostly on small buttons) but fairly rarly. -------- Sig removed, please keep your sig EVE related as per the forum rules, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus It was EVE related!!
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.29 17:45:00 - [32] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Eternal Fury I have to ask this of the Dev team. WHY THE HELL can you not just put in an option to pick the font from a list of the fonts you guys have used in the past. I mean seriously. Some have been good, some bad. Some work for some people but not others. This has got to be one of the simpler things you guys could change. I mean seriously now. Well, the answer is very simple. Not all fonts, in fact not most will work within the eve framework. See, when you have a popup window, and you've changed the font, and now you can't read the end of the message because it doesn't fit in the window you are going to be upset. Same goes for market or anything else. The font has to fit into the game, and that means the font has to be pretty small overall. Which is why we are complaining in the first place. If you could change the font, that chances are you wouldn't like any font that would work. And wouldn't like using non-working fonts... Just imagine " Your 425mm Hybrid T2 rail perfectly strike Gurisata saba...." Or even worse... on market... 425mm hybrid .... now, which one is that? t2? Scout? Prototype gauss? well ****. And sizing windows according to text width has been width us for how long exactly ?
Ishahn Minmatar Omacron Militia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Max Hardcase Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Xorus Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself Er you are kidding me right? Have your interface designers never heard of iterative design? Have you guys seen useit.com? You've heard the name Jakob Nielson yeah? The EVE interface is, IMO, terrible in a 100 different ways. I pray that one day you'll redesign it with some attention paid to human psychology, modern interface design concepts, extensive user testing and observation and by collecting clear, specific feedback from your playerbase. The entire right-click menu, just for starters, is an appalling piece of clunky design that creates so many more problems than it solves. The very idea of menu items actually moving depending on context makes me cringe and has led to me losing ships before. And that's just for starters.... YOU guys may think the UI is fine, but I suggest that's because you're just got used to it. That doesn't mean it's inherently user-friendly, intuitive nor consistent. Ding ding we have a winner here. UI wish list : Ability to move currently fixed UI items around the screen. namely : overview, ship interface. Ability to spawn multiple overviews with seperate settings. Proper multi monitor support ( with various options like using a 2nd screen just for overview, chat etc) Proper fonts for HIGH RESOLUTIONS absolutely!
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:15:00 - [34] Edited by: spurious signal on 29/09/2006 18:17:08 Originally by: Anatolius The problem with UI is, for all the whining of usability studies and Jakob Nielson and all the 'OMG INTUITION' pundits, people think differently. And not in the trendy follow-the-herd Apple way. Bad thing happens when anyone pays any attention to these people. (Look at the state of Linux desktop environments. ) Very true, more customisability is the way forward, and that's something I feel should be part of a good UI design. I'm not a Nielson-above-all-others pundit by any means, his was the only name that I could think of while at work XML-based UI's that allow a huge range over user control over the layout and functioning are definitely the best solution but they have to be done properly. WoW's interface is great but IMO has too much customisation built into it - every patch meant re-installing every UI mod after the 2 week wait for the mod authors to recode them all after Blizzard screwed them up with the patcy
Bethanor d'Lioncourt Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:29:00 - [35] By the way, can we get an update from the Dev's regarding the font issue? It's been several weeks now since the Austin developer conference...
Encad Briht Minmatar United Univers	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:30:00 - [36] I am fine with the UI, the font .... well maybe someone can convince him to design a font for EVE .... --------------------------------------- Member of UU : Diplomatic Corps
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Max Hardcase And sizing windows according to text width has been width us for how long exactly ? AFAIK that ability is not part of EVE. EVE is not a website. You can't just resize things however you see fit. There are serious implications for that. And frankly, if you aren't familar with the ACID test for browsers, you probably don't even know what I'm talking about anyway. I'm not saying I don't want to see better UI options, including fonts. I'm just saying it's not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
ZiggyX	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:49:00 - [38] I WISH the Eve UI was as flexible as WoW. The reason I played, and stayed wwith WoW for so long, even after it became boring raid-tastic, was because I was never bored of the UI. I loved changing and tweaking my UI all the time. Anyone remember Flexbar? Titanpanel? MoveAnything? Those were some of the most amazing mods, that allowed you to make the UI look like absolutely anything. If you had two screenshots, one of the original WoW UI, and my custom UI, you would be like "Whoa.." Also, they even had simple mods, like CTMoD, that were made for beginners that only wanted a few basic changes to the UI. Not only that, check out the WoW UI forums. Amazing. No other gaming forum has brought out so much talent and innovation with UI design. There's hundreds of free development that goes on in that forum, with awesome response from the free developers. Not to mention Slouken, the WoW developer in charge of the UI, has an absolute blast there. He's probably the only WoW developer that actually enjoys being a part of the WoW forums. The UI in Guild Wars doesn't offer any advanced customization, that I know of, but at least it offers the bare essentials of customizing and moving 'everything' in the UI. The saddest thing, is booting up Eve Online, and feeling like I'm back in the stone age. I thought this game was about going into the great future?
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:54:00 - [39] Edited by: Exiled One on 29/09/2006 18:54:53 Originally by: ZiggyX I WISH the Eve UI was as flexible as WoW. The reason I played, and stayed wwith WoW for so long, even after it became boring raid-tastic, was because I was never bored of the UI. I loved changing and tweaking my UI all the time. Anyone remember Flexbar? Titanpanel? MoveAnything? Those were some of the most amazing mods, that allowed you to make the UI look like absolutely anything. If you had two screenshots, one of the original WoW UI, and my custom UI, you would be like "Whoa.." Also, they even had simple mods, like CTMoD, that were made for beginners that only wanted a few basic changes to the UI. Not only that, check out the WoW UI forums. Amazing. No other gaming forum has brought out so much talent and innovation with UI design. There's hundreds of free development that goes on in that forum, with awesome response from the free developers. Not to mention Slouken, the WoW developer in charge of the UI, has an absolute blast there. He's probably the only WoW developer that actually enjoys being a part of the WoW forums. The UI in Guild Wars doesn't offer any advanced customization, that I know of, but at least it offers the bare essentials of customizing and moving 'everything' in the UI. The saddest thing, is booting up Eve Online, and feeling like I'm back in the stone age. I thought this game was about going into the great future? Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower.
Gavriila	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:54:00 - [40] lol
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Bethanor d'Lioncourt By the way, can we get an update from the Dev's regarding the font issue? It's been several weeks now since the Austin developer conference... The phrase with the words "Breath" , "Hold" , "Dont" and "Your" in it, immediately spring to mind. Imho . the 'Mephysto request' was only ever done as a placebo placation exercise. With recent the screen grabs from the devs blogs on Kali - only showing that they are becomming more and more dependant on Captial Lettering and double / triple spacing. cough metrics splutter (you can see this for yourself if you open up the pickles file btw) Would be nice to see some response from the devs. but who am I kidding. 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:04:00 - [42] Originally by: ZiggyX I WISH the Eve UI was as flexible as WoW. The reason I played, and stayed wwith WoW for so long, even after it became boring raid-tastic, was because I was never bored of the UI. I loved changing and tweaking my UI all the time. Anyone remember Flexbar? Titanpanel? MoveAnything? Those were some of the most amazing mods, that allowed you to make the UI look like absolutely anything. If you had two screenshots, one of the original WoW UI, and my custom UI, you would be like "Whoa.." Also, they even had simple mods, like CTMoD, that were made for beginners that only wanted a few basic changes to the UI. Not only that, check out the WoW UI forums. Amazing. No other gaming forum has brought out so much talent and innovation with UI design. There's hundreds of free development that goes on in that forum, with awesome response from the free developers. Not to mention Slouken, the WoW developer in charge of the UI, has an absolute blast there. He's probably the only WoW developer that actually enjoys being a part of the WoW forums. The UI in Guild Wars doesn't offer any advanced customization, that I know of, but at least it offers the bare essentials of customizing and moving 'everything' in the UI. The saddest thing, is booting up Eve Online, and feeling like I'm back in the stone age. I thought this game was about going into the great future? Let me distinguish something for you. You aren't looking for a customizable UI. You are looking for a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap. Most of us don't care if we can add textures to drop down boxes or if we can make our own icons. We just want to move things around a bit and set up different UI's for different tasks. If eve were like guild wars, this thread wouldn't be here. Moving things, adding and removing elements and setting basic color and transperency affects is pretty much all we need in eve. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Let me distinguish something for you. You aren't looking for a customizable UI. You are looking for a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap. Most of us don't care if we can add textures to drop down boxes or if we can make our own icons. We just want to move things around a bit and set up different UI's for different tasks. If eve were like guild wars, this thread wouldn't be here. Moving things, adding and removing elements and setting basic color and transperency affects is pretty much all we need in eve. Spot the person who has no idea what they're talking about. Have you ever even seen the WoW UI? It's the most customisable UI I have ever used. There are literally 1000's of player-written mods available for it that add functionality, provide total control over the whole UI and give access to parts of the WoW code that the basic interface goes nowhere near. Quite a lot more than just being "a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap." You are correct however in that we don't need that level of control in EVE, but an XML based, user-controllable UI would be a great way to acheive the things you suggest.
Rina Shanu Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Dark Shikari You're not allowed to, but I doubt they'll permaban you if they catch you--more likely a warning or tempban. However, there's an easier solution: play at a lower resolution with the Expanded font option. I am just very very curious as to how will they catch you and than ban you if you modify the text font in the client ? Does the client send this particular information, the information of what text font you use, back to server? And if it does, why the hell would it, to create more lag? Think it's a rather useless peace of information to send. my sig sucks
marioman Caldari Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:10:00 - [45] This might seem kinda stupid but as far as people not wanting to learn basic XML to make their own UI, thats the beauty of EVE...you could just pay some1 to do it for you :D Anyway basically it could mean a new "career" in EVE as a POD Interface Design Consultant \o/ lol
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:17:00 - [46] Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Locke DieDrake Let me distinguish something for you. You aren't looking for a customizable UI. You are looking for a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap. Most of us don't care if we can add textures to drop down boxes or if we can make our own icons. We just want to move things around a bit and set up different UI's for different tasks. If eve were like guild wars, this thread wouldn't be here. Moving things, adding and removing elements and setting basic color and transperency affects is pretty much all we need in eve. Spot the person who has no idea what they're talking about. Have you ever even seen the WoW UI? It's the most customisable UI I have ever used. There are literally 1000's of player-written mods available for it that add functionality, provide total control over the whole UI and give access to parts of the WoW code that the basic interface goes nowhere near. Quite a lot more than just being "a SKINABLE UI. Form over function and all that retarded art crap." You are correct however in that we don't need that level of control in EVE, but an XML based, user-controllable UI would be a great way to acheive the things you suggest. Ok I'll admit that I don't really know anything about the wow interface. Except that it's full of little colorful buttons. What I do know is that providing entirely custom systems like that can open up new problems. Much the way macro's and uber keyboards give advantages that they shouldn't. I'd like to see a better interface for eve. But I doubt the answer is going to be found in WOW. Or guild wars or any other game that uses a totally different basis for play. But here is to hoping. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
zeKzn Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Much the way macro's and uber keyboards give advantages that they shouldn't. Macros and keyboards are completely seperate issues. Macros give advantages today, as is obvious to anyone who looks at the ice field in lustrevik, and so do keyboards, to some extent. Frankly there's no way to entirely foolproof a program against macros being created for it, same as there's no way to entirely secure anything against intruders; if people want in, they'll get in. But keyboards? For one, if someone is willing to pay for a keyboard that gives advantages, then who are you to say that they shouldn't get that advantage? Secondly, considering EVE's UI now, that "advantages" comment applies to mice as well, and nobody complains that another player gets an advantage for having an $80 mouse instead of some generic crap. If you dont want to pay for the advantage, you have no right to have equal playing fields. _________ zeKzn
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 22:57:00 - [48] Originally by: zeKzn Originally by: Locke DieDrake Much the way macro's and uber keyboards give advantages that they shouldn't. Macros and keyboards are completely seperate issues. Macros give advantages today, as is obvious to anyone who looks at the ice field in lustrevik, and so do keyboards, to some extent. Frankly there's no way to entirely foolproof a program against macros being created for it, same as there's no way to entirely secure anything against intruders; if people want in, they'll get in. But keyboards? For one, if someone is willing to pay for a keyboard that gives advantages, then who are you to say that they shouldn't get that advantage? Secondly, considering EVE's UI now, that "advantages" comment applies to mice as well, and nobody complains that another player gets an advantage for having an $80 mouse instead of some generic crap. If you dont want to pay for the advantage, you have no right to have equal playing fields. So if I go spend 140$ on a DX1 input system and I program a bunch of keys to do complex actions, like a single key "locks, orbits and puts scram,web,and all guns on a target" thats ok with you? I'm not talking about having a good keyboard versus a bad keyboard, I'm talking about G15's with built macro recording. Or DX1's that are fully programable. There is no differance what so ever between a software macro and a hardware macro. It's cheating, either way. (actually, CCP says not. But I think they just haven't really looked at the situation) And your "you payed for it so you can use it" line is a bunch of ****. I payed for a suite a macro software for my job. Should I be able to use that in EVE? Why not, whats the differance? ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:01:00 - [49] I think the reasoning is simple: keyboards requires input (player presence), macros can run without input. - Three years old
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Ithildin I think the reasoning is simple: keyboards requires input (player presence), macros can run without input. /me smacks forehead on desk. F**k it. I can't be bothered anymore. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:12:00 - [51] Originally by: Locke DieDrake So if I go spend 140$ on a DX1 input system and I program a bunch of keys to do complex actions, like a single key "locks, orbits and puts scram,web,and all guns on a target" thats ok with you? I'm not talking about having a good keyboard versus a bad keyboard, I'm talking about G15's with built macro recording. Or DX1's that are fully programable. How do you do that with a G15? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
xaix ikkul	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:12:00 - [52] I have a lcd monitor with a native resolution of 1280x1024 and I have to play the game at 1024x768 because I can't read the fonts at higher resolution. a option to increase the global font size would be nice.
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:26:00 - [53] Sorry to all you GUI posters out there . why not go post your own thread about programmable Gui s. The OP has asked about the font. Not wether or not, it is easy enough to manipulate a gui for macro enhancement or which keyboard or programs you run to facilitate such 'enhancements' Yes it is an emotive subject. However it has nothing to do with the post. Please keep the font ( and only the font) issues away from your torments Kindest Regards 0lly ( PS. take note of my site for there might be something interesting on it Soon (TM)) If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Locke DieDrake So if I go spend 140$ on a DX1 input system and I program a bunch of keys to do complex actions, like a single key "locks, orbits and puts scram,web,and all guns on a target" thats ok with you? I'm not talking about having a good keyboard versus a bad keyboard, I'm talking about G15's with built macro recording. Or DX1's that are fully programable. How do you do that with a G15? Out of the box? You have to leave off the lock target and orbit commands. With some additional software, easily. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:34:00 - [55] Originally by: 0lly Sorry to all you GUI posters out there . why not go post your own thread about programmable Gui s. The OP has asked about the font. Not wether or not, it is easy enough to manipulate a gui for macro enhancement or which keyboard or programs you run to facilitate such 'enhancements' Yes it is an emotive subject. However it has nothing to do with the post. Please keep the font ( and only the font) issues away from your torments Kindest Regards 0lly ( PS. take note of my site for there might be something interesting on it Soon (TM)) No. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
ParMizaN Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:38:00 - [56] Send a mail to Kieron; it's quite an easy thing to update and someting worth looking into. sig edited for lack of pink really PINK -eris Pink is overrated, yellow is the new pink - Xorus XORUS!!1 HEATHEN KILLKILLKILLKILLKILL - Immy
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.29 23:40:00 - [57] Edited by: 0lly on 29/09/2006 23:43:11 Ah alas pre pubescent hormonal influneces are no doubt to the fore. So I have wasted my time in explaining that forum threads when they start to get a tad diverese . are usually locked by the ISD community. and the essence of the thread then enters the realm of the padlocked Genre. One which immediately becomes null and void to the Devs?. 0lly Edit - one of these days ill learn to spell. If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Hyo Velka	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Exiled One Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower. So you discredit a perfectly valid point, simply because he plays WoW? Some people are painfully ignorant, and I'm happy to inform you that you've just joined the club.
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Hyo Velka Originally by: Exiled One Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower. So you discredit a perfectly valid point, simply because he plays WoW? Some people are painfully ignorant, and I'm happy to inform you that you've just joined the club. They play wow, they compare wow to eve, they want to bring **** from wow to eve. You want a dumbed down version of eve?
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:42:00 - [60] Originally by: 0lly Edited by: 0lly on 29/09/2006 23:43:11 Ah alas pre pubescent hormonal influneces are no doubt to the fore. So I have wasted my time in explaining that forum threads when they start to get a tad diverese . are usually locked by the ISD community. and the essence of the thread then enters the realm of the padlocked Genre. One which immediately becomes null and void to the Devs?. 0lly Edit - one of these days ill learn to spell. Spare me the hollier than thou aproach. You clearly have a pet peeve about the in game font. Fine. Whatever. But please don't come on a FORUM and try and limit the discussion. It's stupid and ignorant of the way things really work. Look, I get that you don't like the font, and you think it should be changed. There are ways to get that done. They do not include this forum. Email various devs, create a virutal petition. But no single thread has ever "caught" the attention of a dev. And it's pretty insulting to the devs that you imply they aren't capable of reading past the crap to get to your point. Or that your point is somehow more important than other (semi) related issues. The discussion in this thread turned from the font to the UI in general, and then to macros, which if you don't know are directly related to the UI, which is related to the Font. Diversity is not the problem, flaming is what gets a thread locked. Talking about a group of related issues is not flaming. However, trying to indirectly call me a pre pubescent is in fact flaming, or a the least, flame bait. So lets see if you can practice what you preach. I'm not going to flame you back. I've explained why your request was foolhardy. Now lets see if you can steer this thread back into the place you demand it go to. Oh, and if you call me pre pubcent again, I'm sending my kids to your house for the weekend. Because you obviously lack perspective. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Allen Miles Caldari The Miles Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.30 03:04:00 - [61] Originally by: 0lly Sorry but in reply to the OP . Of the 2000+ people who visited Here And of the many hundreds who had contacted me personally before the site . I never heard of one who had been banned. Regards 0lly lol, that wingdings one is hilarious. It would be scary to actually learn to play in that font! \|\|M\|\| Add Your Images or Add Your Corp to the DB!
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2006.09.30 05:22:00 - [62] Originally by: Exiled One They play wow, they compare wow to eve, they want to bring **** from wow to eve. You want a dumbed down version of eve? Just because someone says game A has this really amazing feature that might be a great addition to game B doesn't make it bad. There may be other reasons that it isn't a good idea for another game, but it could also be something that tweaked around a really nice addition to the game. That aside, letting the user pick from a range of fonts sounds like a decent idea. Or at the very least an option for user input fontsize (ie, rather than small and large, 12pt, 20pt etc) for use on the multitude of different screen resolutions people play at.
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.30 10:14:00 - [63] You are quite right Locke - Name calling never wins anything. And for that I apologise . Yes the font is my pet hate :) Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Vladimir G'orkin Minmatar	Posted - 2006.09.30 10:30:00 - [64] Yes please improve the font situation. It is very annoying to play the game if you have trouble reading the text :(
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.30 10:34:00 - [65] I think, if you are having trouble reading the font, send a bug report. Do so after each client patch, really, since it's a recurring bug. Be mindful to also submit your screen resolution and describe what letters are hard to separate, etc. If you can get an optician's opinion in there, do it . - Three years old
Toros Revoke STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.30 11:05:00 - [66] Edited by: Toros Revoke on 30/09/2006 11:05:02 The font broke my eyes I'm sure of it whats wrong with Times New Roman, or Verdana for that matter? do we really need a "Sci Fi" font, escaped from a late 80's dos program, where a simple D is easiliy a 0 or an O, not to mention &, that could be anything! Whine ends. Originally by: INNOMINATE NIGHTMARE Besides, tea must always take precedence over war....
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.30 11:09:00 - [67] I don't think anyone has ever been banned for changing the font, and I doubt anyone ever will. Unless he goes and makes a big spectable out of it. Technically, it's against the EULA and is grounds for banning. However, it doesn't give you any unfair advantage, and I'm almost sure that CCP cannot easily detect that you are using a modded font. That said, it's against the EULA.
Amee Tindre	Posted - 2006.09.30 11:12:00 - [68] Originally by: 0lly Sorry but in reply to the OP . Of the 2000+ people who visited Here And of the many hundreds who had contacted me personally before the site . I never heard of one who had been banned. I was at the site but there are only shot and no downloadable content there or I am missing something? I think read in another thread something about CCP changing the way fonts work in a patch some time ago making it impossible to change it? So I guess I am stuck with the impossible to read making your eyes bleed and head hurt font for the foreseeable future? I was so happy to see you are still around Olly and pushing the font agenda because its needed! I'd just hoped you still had a workable solution on your site. ALSO, I am very pleased to see so much action in this little thread I created out of frustration yesterday and it seems there are lot of frustration not just about the font in EVE but also around the UI itself. Let's just hope that CCP read this thread and take into consideration all the issues brought up. I would however like to see the focus of this thread stay on topic which is the FONT issue. If you are very frustrated with the UI please make a UI thread. :)
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.30 11:49:00 - [69] There's a really easy way to solve this issue which, let's face it, has been in since going retail. Give us multiple font settings. Even in low res with expanded font, I have a bad time reading it Make a Difference
Aqua II	Posted - 2006.09.30 11:56:00 - [70] Originally by: Amee Tindre Originally by: Dark Shikari However, there's an easier solution: play at a lower resolution with the Expanded font option. That wouldn't work for me, I have a hard time finding space to put all my chat windows and other windows at it is. I just want a new font. I have no clue why on earth they don't allow us to change the font to whatever we feel like or at least BOLD and set SIZE to whatever we like? Signed. Also it doesn't work because I play in windowed mode, because I'm doing other things at the same time (on the second screen). Switching to a lower resolution only helps when you play in full-screen mode. It has been like this since I started playing the game, with nearly every patch the font gets even worse. Some devs say they test at 1600x1200 resolutions, which really makes we wonder what brand of magnifying glass they use
Aqua II	Posted - 2006.09.30 12:10:00 - [71] Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Xorus Theres nothing wrong with the UI itself Er you are kidding me right? Have your interface designers never heard of iterative design? Have you guys seen useit.com? You've heard the name Jakob Nielson yeah? The EVE interface is, IMO, terrible in a 100 different ways. I pray that one day you'll redesign it with some attention paid to human psychology, modern interface design concepts, extensive user testing and observation and by collecting clear, specific feedback from your playerbase. Signed for truth. I don't think I've ever seen a game, or for that matter any application except many media players, that has a worse interface design. It's a wonder it's still this playable, says a lot about the "goodness" of the game in general that people even bother to play it at all with such an interface. Seriously. (The complex economy is what makes Eve tick, for me..) The UI is utterly unresponsive. The UI should run in a thread that is completely separated from any actions taking place in game. The right-click menu's, don't get me started. The non-standard behaviour of a lot of UI elements (i.e. different than they behave in Windows). Inconsistencies all over the place due to not using a decent widget toolkit, but rolling your own (I'm not saying that a decent one was available when you started developing the game though). PvP (other than 1v1's or very small groups) has been an utter disaster for more than a year now, due to lag and other interface-related issues. Indeed I don't think I'd have a hard time coming up with 100 first class "WTF's" in user interface design by simply clicking around the eve client for about 10 minutes. (And that's even after I have used it for 2 years...)
Doxs Roxs White Wolves Defence league E.R.A	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:51:00 - [72] Lets give this baby a little bump for attention. Please give us a proper customizable UI! XML based or whatever technique you think works best, but it needs a PROPER overhaul. Once that is done, changing font will be a cake. If you are worried about supporting other UIs, then dont. Just do what other games do, if problems arise with the client, make sure there is a simple option to start the client with the standard UI and refer the user to that if they have problems with the custom UIs. Regards /Doxs After almost half a year, why is my face just a '!' ? And please fix the Javelin T2 rail ammunition...
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.02 12:19:00 - [73] I don't care much about a new UI... but I would like to see a new font... Tahoma would be phenomenal.... the current EVE font SUCKS at high resolutions.
Zhecao Vai	Posted - 2006.10.02 12:34:00 - [74] Originally by: Exiled One Originally by: Hyo Velka Originally by: Exiled One Ok. Amazing, a wower, now enjoy your ban. Oh sorry, thought you were the OP poster. But you're still a wower. So you discredit a perfectly valid point, simply because he plays WoW? Some people are painfully ignorant, and I'm happy to inform you that you've just joined the club. They play wow, they compare wow to eve, they want to bring **** from wow to eve. You want a dumbed down version of eve? No way can this guy be for real.

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