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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
dafe4dc Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:31:31 - [1] - Quote So after reading the hyperdunking discussion i kinda find this a bit of bullshit. It has also come to my attention that hyperdunking is now being used to pop POS mods in Highsec as well. see link below. http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1714471&m=1&y=2015&scl_id=38 After doing a lot of scanning, i have also come to see that Bumping ships no longer have to nano fit to be effective. This basically leaves us haulers, up the creek without a paddle. There are no repercussion to bumping what so ever, and apparently this hyperdunking isn't an exploit, so that's just a huge way of saying "Too bad haulers". Now some one has said to me that you spend the same kind of isk on carriers as yo would for a freighter. carriers are able to fit a tank and have mods which would allow them to defend themselves, freighters, do not. Jump freighters cost as much as a bling fit Dread, actually more, and they are nearly as vulnerable. How can people continue to justify buying these ships and have absolutely no defense for them. I suggest several things to remedy this. As a bumper, there is no repercussions what-so-ever, but you are an accomplice to the destruction of the freighter so should either gain a criminal timer OR kill rights be given to the freighter pilot for the bumper. OR How about adding damage using some formula that goes right through shields? you may thing freighter pilots are the biggest carebears in all of eve, but without us, the economy would crash. as it sits, bumpers have all the power with no repercussions at all and this hyperdunking if its not an exploit i don't know what is. CCP you need to look at this because its this kind of thing that breaks eve, and in the long run, could collapse the economy if the haulers just stand up and say no more hauling, and enough is enough. and to all you leet CODE ppl that are going to flame this post, Alliance tournament, just sayin
Siegfried Cohenberg Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 36	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:41:23 - [2] - Quote hey if you pay me 300m i can add you to my blue list and i won't bump you
Kthome Mares State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:41:55 - [3] - Quote Are you upset?
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet The Scope Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:43:59 - [4] - Quote The solution is the same as it has always been. Buy a mining permit. P.S., Try to keep up with the metagame. CCP isn't your space-mommy. CCP won't hold your hand. Not even in highsec.
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet The Scope Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:49:25 - [5] - Quote Siegfried Cohenberg wrote: as the best bumper in the game you're going to have to deal with bumping It's true. He is the best bumper in the game. OP was right to call it an art. It is a thing of beauty to watch Siegnfeld bump.
Paranoid Loyd 3732	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:52:38 - [6] - Quote Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp. There is very little chance of being bumped if your freighter is properly escorted. This is not a single player game, you can't expect to be able to move your expensive defenseless freighter without an escort. Hyperdunking only works under a very specific set of circumstances. Evreryone who doesn't understand how it works thinks it will be a new trend but it is very tedious and easily thwarted so don't expect it to catch on in any sort of significant way. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
DJ Rubbie Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 7	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:58:59 - [7] - Quote dafe4dc wrote: you may thing freighter pilots are the biggest carebears in all of eve, but without us, the economy would crash. I agree, for every freighter that gets destroyed results in an even more functional economy as items are consumed, necessitating the creation of new ones which results in further economic activity that benefits the rest of us.
MoneyBags Bio SpaceShip Building Investment Industries 0	Posted - 2015.02.03 00:44:36 - [8] - Quote Pirates in EVE are by far the favored type of character by CCP, CCP allow nearly everything that favors pirates, possible exploit or not. I know some would call this boring or not monopoly but face it if you playing a game of monopoly and certain people could exploit ,oops sorry, manipulate the banks money who do you thinks gonna win. All this does is makes an unfair / unbalanced playing area. Now its a game and we are all here to have fun so all I say is shouldn't we all be able to have fun carebear or pirate. Manipulating game mechanics is turning the game in favor of the manipulator which is unpleasant for the receivers of the exploit / manipulation. A fair gank I have no problem with. But actually manipulating CONCORD is basically like disregarding the rules in monopoly and helping yourself to bank funds so you can win, totally unfair and unbalanced. So to put a smile on a few sad faces I came up with this ridiculous idea Dump CONCORD they are useless anyway. Then ban all Ammo from Hi Sec to stop the pirates wasting their isk buying it. All Indy ( miners, haulers ect.) should all be docked up in stations and as soon as Indy pilots un dock their ships should auto explode to let the pirates help themselves. That way it would make the pirates save ISK buying ammo to kill indy ships and they still get the loot and save the Indy pilots the time wasted flying the ship. Win for the pirates as usual. GOOD IDEA hey? It was a joke hope we are all laughing now :
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 32396	Posted - 2015.02.03 00:52:41 - [9] - Quote dafe4dc wrote: Jump freighters cost as much as a bling fit Dread, actually more, and they are nearly as vulnerable. How can people continue to justify buying these ships and have absolutely no defense for them. What? JFs are virtually invulnerable. You can jump them out of the situation. There is no reason a JF should be ganked. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Messenger Of Truth Butlerian Crusade 1	Posted - 2015.02.03 00:53:39 - [10] - Quote Eve is a game of risk vs reward. Hyperdunking is fine. The only trouble is that you can tackle a ship in hi-sec without putting your ship at risk. Somehow bump tackling needs to be a bit riskier. Idealy it would involve suspect flag, however this would cause various problems at station undocks and in all sorts of other innocuous situations. How can you distinguish between tackling bumps and innocent bumps? This may be impossible. I am very much in favour of the idea that anything that the game allows is permissible, because the alternative is grey areas, petitions and general dissatisfaction for all involved. So from my point of view, hyperdunking is possible within the game, ergo it is within the rules. I would rather bump-tackling had no effects, than ambiguous rules were created stating that sometimes bumping was allowed and sometimes it wasn't. However I would also rather that bump-tackling in hi-sec involved some risk to the bumper as that seems more in line with the rest of the game. Is there any way that the game could distinguish between deliberate bumps and accidental contact? I'm not sure.But lets assume that there is some way to distinguish between accidental bumping and deliberate bumping. I think there are two reasonable consequences either of which could be appropriate: 1) suspect flag in hisec 2) ship damage
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 32396	Posted - 2015.02.03 01:00:23 - [11] - Quote Messenger Of Truth wrote: But lets assume that there is some way to distinguish between accidental bumping and deliberate bumping. I think there are two reasonable consequences either of which could be appropriate: 1) suspect flag in hisec 2) ship damage Been suggested many times and it would be fantasic. It would be the greatest thing bought to highsec as ganks could happen without being Concorded or losing sec status. If any mechanic could be developed that provided some AI around bumping, it would be worked out quickly and used as a means to initiate conflict. The freighters would end up being the ships going suspect and taking bump damage. It would be glorious. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet The Scope Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2015.02.03 02:15:42 - [12] - Quote Contrary to what some have asserted, bumping is not a zero-risk enterprise. You can find the macharial losses for yourself, if you look. Bumping can be stopped. It merely takes players who are willing to -- wait for it -- work together to do something. gasp The solution, as usual, is to cease your bot-aspirant behaviours, and find some folks who you can work with to achieve your goals. This isn't a one player game, and CONCORD isn't your daddy.
Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 17	Posted - 2015.02.03 06:29:08 - [13] - Quote Ccps programmers wouldnt be able to actually program the bump=aggression/hp loss/whatever code. All kinds of physics and calc and etc etc. Its a well known FACT many players actually code better. So write/wrong/whuteva.... ccp CANT do what u want anyways Also CODE. Is the only team to NEVER LOSE A SINGLE SHIP in the AT. They are undefeated brah
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 8	Posted - 2015.02.03 10:03:24 - [14] - Quote TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet wrote: Contrary to what some have asserted, bumping is not a zero-risk enterprise. You can find the macharial losses for yourself, if you look. Bumping can be stopped. It merely takes players who are willing to -- wait for it -- work together to do something. gasp The solution, as usual, is to cease your bot-aspirant behaviours, and find some folks who you can work with to achieve your goals. This isn't a one player game, and CONCORD isn't your daddy. There's a problem in your reasoning: Yes, bumping can be stopped by force (killing the bumper), but this involves agressing the bumper first which gasp means the agressor gets killed by concord. So: -A bumper can initiate the bumping at no cost/risk of being a legal target -Option A for the person getting bumped: Loose the bumped ship (loss of ISK) -Option B for the person getting bumped: Loose ships for killing the bumper (loss of ISK again) If it's not obvious by now that this is clearly in favor of bumpers, then I don't know...
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 8	Posted - 2015.02.03 10:18:26 - [15] - Quote Adding to my previos response and pointing out a problem in the following reasoning: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp. There is very little chance of being bumped if your freighter is properly escorted. This is not a single player game, you can't expect to be able to move your expensive defenseless freighter without an escort. Even if you take out the killing part of bumper/freighter from the equation, the situation is still in favor of the bumpers: -A single bumper can hold a freighter indefinitely -It requires team effort (either multiple people killing the bumper or a second person webbing the freighter) to escape bumping Where's the team effort in bumping here?
Degnar Oskold Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 146	Posted - 2015.02.03 12:01:52 - [16] - Quote Miranda Ka wrote: Adding to my previos response and pointing out a problem in the following reasoning: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp. There is very little chance of being bumped if your freighter is properly escorted. This is not a single player game, you can't expect to be able to move your expensive defenseless freighter without an escort. Even if you take out the killing part of bumper/freighter from the equation, the situation is still in favor of the bumpers: -A single bumper can hold a freighter indefinitely -It requires team effort (either multiple people killing the bumper or a second person webbing the freighter) to escape bumping Where's the team effort in bumping here? It's a team effort either way. A single bumper can hold a freighter indefinitely, but needs another player/account in order to be able to kill the freighter. A freighter needs another player/account in order to evade the bump through webbing. My jump freighter alt never travels without an alt from my second account in a frigate. The alt jumps into system first, burns back to gate, then the freighter jumps in. I figure out which direction the alt needs to go in to head towards the freighter, go that way, and lock up and web the freighter as soons as it starts moving. In hisec, my jump freighter is only vulnerable for the 2 seconds that it takes a frigate to lock it up. My Dreads and Carriers in lowsec are far more vulnerable than that. The main difference that hyperdunking is making to me is to make me want to buy an instalocking cruiser for escort instead of a frigate. Most likely a RLML armour tanked Caracal with webs, sebos and an MWD in the mids that can wreck gank fit catalysts as soon as boarded. Or maybe a Blackbird with a rack of Gallente Jammers .
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 8	Posted - 2015.02.03 14:03:11 - [17] - Quote Degnar Oskold wrote: It's a team effort either way. A single bumper can hold a freighter indefinitely, but needs another player/account in order to be able to kill the freighter. A freighter needs another player/account in order to evade the bump through webbing. You don't seem to fully get the point I was trying to make: -A ganker group only needs a single pilot (the bumper) online to catch a freighter. Once the freighter is kept busy, the bumper has all the time in the world to call up his friend/friends, wait for them to get ready and come in and make the kill. -A freighter on the other hand must be escorted by another ship all the time and both of them need to be fully focussed on the game. As I see it, there's an imbalance right there: Freighting is a 2-pilot co-op activity now while bumping is still a singleplayer activity. As mentioned earlier, this completely leaves out the killing part (of either the freighter or the bumper). But even the killing part is imbalanced: -When a bumper catches a freighter, his friends are usually pretty closeby, docked in the same system or the next, so there's almost no delay in getting them on the scene. -A freighter pilot however, needs to call in friends who might be busy at the other end of the galaxy. And he requires more than a single friend to get him out of the situation while a gank with hyperdunking could be done by a single friend of the bumper.
T00NCES Viziam Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.02.03 15:45:19 - [18] - Quote Sorry for my ignorance. What is "Bumping" To me it sounds like just running into a ship with a frig and making it miss alignment.
Zen Guerrilla CTRL-Q Iron Oxide. 326	Posted - 2015.02.03 17:30:35 - [19] - Quote I feel that the only thing that's actually broken about the whole freighter ganking issue is that it's just so easy to keep a freighter from warping while being 100% safe doing it. pew pew
beaconBoy SavesTheDay Galactic Hauling Solutions Inc. 8	Posted - 2015.02.03 19:09:36 - [20] - Quote Seems like hyperdunking is just the solo version of a more typical gank fleet. Same number of ships are involved, but only one or two pilot in the former case. While a random component to CCP's response time might address other types of freighter ganking (ie. same Concord response time as today based on system security but plus or minus 5 second), this won't have any effect on hyperdunking. My JF centric view means I tend to ignore the bumping aspect of this whole issue. If hyperdunking stands, you may see more freighter pilots move up to jump freighters (and shipping rates will triple due to the decrese in cargohold size....can you see CCP drooling on the sidelines). A single hot cyno can cover a 20 LY stretch along the route evacing a bumped jump freighter out of the situation before the gank fleet arrives. As you can see, the time and effort needed for rescuing the JF compared to the freighter drops from immediate help from an escort webber to a series of well place cyno alts where one can be logged on minutes after solo bumping has started. I like the following analysis: Miranda Ka wrote: -A ganker group only needs a single pilot (the bumper) online to catch a freighter. Once the freighter is kept busy, the bumper has all the time in the world to call up his friend/friends, wait for them to get ready and come in and make the kill. -A freighter on the other hand must be escorted by another ship all the time and both of them need to be fully focussed on the game. As I see it, there's an imbalance right there: Freighting is a 2-pilot co-op activity now while bumping is still a singleplayer activity. I think this shift from freighters to JFs going through HS gates would even out that difference since the hot cyno alts each covering 20 LY of the route don't have to carefully monitor progress and don't even need to be logged in until minutes after trouble start. And most likely those cyno alts will already be in place as they assist the deliveries to low sec systems over the whole region and neighboring regions. ps - My courier corp has closed due to CCP's repeated hauler nerfs. Customers want Jita, and CCP is going to push them to use regional trade hubs by continuing to take steps to make shipping more expensive. Hyperganking and CCP's approval of this mechanism is just the latest step in this direction. GHSOL may have gone by the wayside (mainly due to numerous jF pilots stopping hauling or leaving the game making recruiting nearly impossible), but ultimately customers will have to change their ways and start buying locally and supporting their local industrialist. CCP will just continue to turn the thumb screws until everyone complies. Or they can change Jita's security status to 0.4!
May Burke Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.02.03 20:20:47 - [21] - Quote dafe4dc wrote: CCP you need to look at this because its this kind of thing that breaks eve, and in the long run, could collapse the economy if the haulers just stand up and say no more hauling, and enough is enough. My subscription will lapse until CCP decides to do something about this. I will not put billions of isk at risk just to have it blown out of the sky in a few seconds. We have zero tank, zero midslots, we have to use cargo expanders to get any sort of cargo space so there goes the low slots. No rigs no defenses. Doesnt surprise me that every day there are scores of freighter losses, its contents, and any collateral involved. And what are the ones that are taking us down losing? A few mil in destroyers. What are they gaining? Whatever drops out of our pinata. Nowhere in eve is safe, but high sec shouldnt be just as dangerous as lowsec as far as losses go. Sure, lets all switch over to jump freighters and all move through lowsec instead of high sec. Lets triple the cost of shipment due to smaller cargo space. That will help offset the fuel cost that I will incur to travel over lowsec and help line MY pockets instead of CODE who are essentially GOONS. At least they wont be able to sit at a HS gate all day with their thumb up their asses waiting for freighters to come through and simply blow them up. Plus they might have to actually go find real PVP...
Bad Messenger Nasranite Watch 837	Posted - 2015.02.03 20:33:48 - [22] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp. There is very little chance of being bumped if your freighter is properly escorted. This is not a single player game, you can't expect to be able to move your expensive defenseless freighter without an escort. Hyperdunking only works under a very specific set of circumstances. Everyone who doesn't understand how it works thinks it will be a new trend but it is very tedious and easily thwarted so don't expect it to catch on in any sort of significant way. Also, LOL at adding damage to bumping, if they did do that it would be used against you in hilarious ways and the result would be more tears than it stopped. escort does not help anything if someone want to kill your freighter.
Paranoid Loyd 3737	Posted - 2015.02.03 20:41:00 - [23] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp. There is very little chance of being bumped if your freighter is properly escorted. This is not a single player game, you can't expect to be able to move your expensive defenseless freighter without an escort. Hyperdunking only works under a very specific set of circumstances. Everyone who doesn't understand how it works thinks it will be a new trend but it is very tedious and easily thwarted so don't expect it to catch on in any sort of significant way. Also, LOL at adding damage to bumping, if they did do that it would be used against you in hilarious ways and the result would be more tears than it stopped. escort does not help anything if someone want to kill your freighter. Yes it does. I'm not talking about an armed escort. Read the first sentence. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Paranoid Loyd 3737	Posted - 2015.02.03 20:56:38 - [24] - Quote Miranda Ka wrote: Adding to my previos response and pointing out a problem in the following reasoning: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp. There is very little chance of being bumped if your freighter is properly escorted. This is not a single player game, you can't expect to be able to move your expensive defenseless freighter without an escort. Even if you take out the killing part of bumper/freighter from the equation, the situation is still in favor of the bumpers: -A single bumper can hold a freighter indefinitely -It requires team effort (either multiple people killing the bumper or a second person webbing the freighter) to escape bumping Where's the team effort in bumping here? Your argument is comprable to the AFK cloaking argument. Why does it matter if there is a person AFK cloaking? He can't do anything of consequence. Why does it matter if you are being bumped with no intention of being ganked? The bumper is not doing anything of consequence. For either of these to have consequence additional characters are required. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 9	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:06:28 - [25] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Your argument is comprable to the AFK cloaking argument. Why does it matter if there is a person AFK cloaking? He can't do anything of consequence. Why does it matter if you are being bumped with no intention of being ganked? The bumper is not doing anything of consequence. For either of these to have consequence additional characters are required. Sorry but no, just no. You're comparison just doesn't work: -AFK cloaking is completely passive and not interfering with other people (it can be used to gather intelligence or for probing, both of those don't affect other ships physically) -If you're getting bumped in a freighter, you're stuck, you can't escape, you're a sitting duck. This is pretty much equivalent to being warp scrambled (except for the bumper not triggering agression flags)
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 9	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:07:27 - [26] - Quote Here's a crazy idea: What if CCP made webbing a non-offensive action? Maybe incurring a suspect flag to balance it out a bit. Think about it: It would be a way to fight off/incapacitate a bumper (but the bumper would be allowed to retaliate) with another single pilot There's probably a whole load of issues that I haven't thought about yet, but it seems like a solution that could be implemented without too much work on CCPs side and with predictable results.
Kaelynne Rose WTB Somalians 18	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:12:53 - [27] - Quote Guys none of this matters. Even if u come up wit some awesome great balanced plan...... ccp programmers CANT CODE IT They have even said dealing with bumping is impossible to code due to all the physicals and calculus and ability to abuse it. Give it up, they couldnt fix it if they tried (which they have said over and over they aint gonna try and that bumpin is working as intended)
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 9	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:19:50 - [28] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: Guys none of this matters. Even if u come up wit some awesome great balanced plan...... ccp programmers CANT CODE IT They have even said dealing with bumping is impossible to code due to all the physicals and calculus and ability to abuse it. Give it up, they couldnt fix it if they tried (which they have said over and over they aint gonna try and that bumpin is working as intended) I'm hoping you wrote up your post before reading my previous post (#26). The solution proposed there would NOT require fiddling with bumping physics but would be a rather simple adjustment of making cause a suspect flag instead of the weapon timer. Seeing as the crimewatch system has been re-written from ground up just recently, it's reasonable to assume that a change like this should be rather easy to implement.
Paranoid Loyd 3738	Posted - 2015.02.03 22:50:24 - [29] - Quote Miranda Ka wrote: Sorry but no, just no. You're comparison doesn't work: -AFK cloaking is completely passive and not interfering with other people (it can be used to gather intelligence or for probing, both of those don't affect other ships physically) -If you're getting bumped in a freighter, you're stuck, you can't escape, you're a sitting duck. This is pretty much equivalent to being warp scrambled (except for the bumper not triggering agression flags) The point is there is no danger to being a sitting duck if there are no additional players to gank you and as such your argument is pointless. You being annoyed or inconvenienced is not a consequence. No one is going to bump you indefinitely, this is a game and boredom is a factor to be considered. Sure they might bump you for a while trying to get ransom out of you but if you just ignore them they will go away in less time than you have lead people to believe. If you sit there and cry about it, that is a totally different story as your tears are providing them content. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
botcher0 WYNX Industries 5	Posted - 2015.02.03 23:32:40 - [30] - Quote Kaelynne Rose wrote: Guys none of this matters. Even if u come up wit some awesome great balanced plan...... ccp programmers CANT CODE IT They have even said dealing with bumping is impossible to code due to all the physicals and calculus and ability to abuse it. Give it up, they couldnt fix it if they tried (which they have said over and over they aint gonna try and that bumpin is working as intended) Then throw away the bumping as a whole. Its just an annoying mechanic, completely useless except for gankers. But a pain in the ass for anyone else who tries to fly through on a tightly populated POS, Belt, Missionsite etc.. And: everyone warps through Stations and Planets anyway. BTW: I would love to see Jita as a 0.4 System.
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 10	Posted - 2015.02.04 01:09:20 - [31] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: The point is there is no danger to being a sitting duck if there are no additional players to gank you and as such your argument is pointless. You being annoyed or inconvenienced is not a consequence. No one is going to bump you indefinitely, this is a game and boredom is a factor to be considered. Sure they might bump you for a while trying to get ransom out of you but if you just ignore them they will go away in less time than you have lead people to believe. If you sit there and cry about it, that is a totally different story as your tears are providing them content. By that logic, any modules that just "inconvenience" the target should be allowed in highsec. That would include webifiers, warp scramblers, ECMs, target painters, sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, ... You see where I'm going with this? CCP decided that those modules are counted as offensive and will trigger agression flags. So why should bumping be an exception when the behaviour is basically the same as warp scrambling? As suggested in post #26, one solution would be to allow some of those modules to be used in highsec without triggering agression flags. This would level the playfield and give everyone a fair chance. Getting bumped by a Mach? Get a friend to web the Mach and you can warp away. Sounds fair, no?
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 10	Posted - 2015.02.04 01:31:38 - [32] - Quote botcher0 wrote: Then throw away the bumping as a whole. Its just an annoying mechanic, completely useless except for gankers. But a pain in the ass for anyone else who tries to fly through on a tightly populated POS, Belt, Missionsite etc.. And: everyone warps through Stations and Planets anyway. This is actually a good idea too. Having collisions with static objects (stations, asteroids, gates, ...) is meaningful because you have to navigate around them. For ship - ship interaction, there's only a few scenarios where collisions are meaningful: -Bumping (which I consider a broken mechanic) -Decloaking -Fleet positioning broken not because freighters are at a disadvantage. The physics of bumping (mass/size of ships and impulse/speed/energy) actually adds up pretty well. The main issue I have with it is that there's a magic "bumping" shield that has enough force to repel a high-velocity impact (causing the ship to recoil), yet at the same time, it's too weak to repel some small projectiles/plasma/lasers without having to be recharged. Also, how are humans in the ships supposed to survive those high-velocity impacts? Running into a freighter with a Machariel and getting bumped back at several km/s is an insane amount of acceleration and would kill not only the regular crew (several 100 in case of the Machariel) but even a heavily protected pod pilot. The "acceleration" during warp is a whole different issue and I could spend some hours discussing the realism and effects of the warping procedure, but let's save that for another thread.
Crosi Wesdo War and Order 1350	Posted - 2015.02.04 01:43:10 - [33] - Quote Is this one of those 'high sec' threads? Since this is the FW area, this needs moving to the high sec pvp area of the forum EDIT: also, why is bumping a problem? just extract back to your high sec jump off cyno alt.
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 10	Posted - 2015.02.04 01:51:28 - [34] - Quote Crosi Wesdo wrote: Is this one of those 'high sec' threads? Since this is the FW area, this needs moving to the high sec pvp area of the forum EDIT: also, why is bumping a problem? just extract back to your high sec jump off cyno alt. Probably just trying to educate a troll but here i go: -The "Warfare & Tactics" subforum is for any kind of PvP, not just FW or lowsec. Only thing you could argue is whether the thread belongs to the "Crime & Punishment" subforum, but there's always some overlap. Considering that bumping is a player-vs-player situation, I'd say the thread is in the proper place. -Regular freighters can't cyno-jump
Crosi Wesdo War and Order 1350	Posted - 2015.02.04 02:01:02 - [35] - Quote Miranda Ka wrote: Crosi Wesdo wrote: Is this one of those 'high sec' threads? Since this is the FW area, this needs moving to the high sec pvp area of the forum EDIT: also, why is bumping a problem? just extract back to your high sec jump off cyno alt. Probably just trying to educate a troll but here i go: -The "Warfare & Tactics" subforum is for any kind of PvP, not just FW or lowsec. Only thing you could argue is whether the thread belongs to the "Crime & Punishment" subforum, but there's always some overlap. Considering that bumping is a player-vs-player situation, I'd say the thread is in the proper place. -Regular freighters can't cyno-jump I guess im falling for a troll but this is the faction warfare and tactics forum. And what use is a regular freighter in low sec faction war?
Shailagh Ministry of War Amarr Empire 68	Posted - 2015.02.04 02:18:22 - [36] - Quote Crosi Wesdo wrote: Miranda Ka wrote: Crosi Wesdo wrote: Is this one of those 'high sec' threads? Since this is the FW area, this needs moving to the high sec pvp area of the forum EDIT: also, why is bumping a problem? just extract back to your high sec jump off cyno alt. Probably just trying to educate a troll but here i go: -The "Warfare & Tactics" subforum is for any kind of PvP, not just FW or lowsec. Only thing you could argue is whether the thread belongs to the "Crime & Punishment" subforum, but there's always some overlap. Considering that bumping is a player-vs-player situation, I'd say the thread is in the proper place. -Regular freighters can't cyno-jump I guess im falling for a troll but this is the faction warfare and tactics forum. And what use is a regular freighter in low sec faction war? There is no faction warfare forum idiot. This if the home of pvp, read the stickied thread. U stupid beacon-orbiting-blobbing-plex-farming-blued up LOWBEAR Lol@faction warfare, gtf 2 hisec where the leet pvp is brah
Degnar Oskold Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 146	Posted - 2015.02.04 11:54:56 - [37] - Quote Looking at zkillboard, I've learned the following. 1) The amount of hyperdunking going on is extremely limited. There are virtually no non-wardec freighter kills than have less than 10 people on them in the past week. 2) Virtually all non-wardec hisec freighter ganks are going on in just 2 systems of 0.5 security, and a handful of ganks in 0.6. 3) Virtually all jump freighter ganks are on jump freighters that are not fitted for maximum tank. ====================================== If CCP really wanted to resolve the issue probably the simplest thing to do, rather than change any mechanic, would be to promote the sec status of systems between major trade hubs to have a corridor of 0.7+ all the way through. However, I don't think the situation is bad enough to need that. It would be pandering to players who want to keep flying badly fit ships without webbing accompaniment.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3676	Posted - 2015.02.04 22:57:04 - [38] - Quote Red Frog Jita-Amarr: 10.5 Mil ISK Cost of a freighter: 1.3 Bil ISK Trips to break even: 120! If you're flying a freighter in highsec: 1. You're a pro hauler and don't get ganked, or 2. You haul for fun and don't get ganked, or 3. You're a fool that deserves to die (in game, ofc) If freighting in highsec was really so hard, rates would be higher and it would be a nice way to make ISK. But it's not, so it's safe for an avg skilled player, so only very bad players die. Learn the game or don't fly a freighter. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Miranda Ka Push Industries Push Interstellar Network 10	Posted - 2015.02.05 00:47:26 - [39] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: If freighting in highsec was really so hard, rates would be higher and it would be a nice way to make ISK. But it's not, so it's safe for an avg skilled player, so only very bad players die. Learn the game or don't fly a freighter. Hauling rates have been steadily increasing in the past and the current trend of ganking will only contribute more to this. Obviously it's not gonna happen overnight because not every single freighter gets ganked all of a sudden, but there's a clear trend of even expired haulers (who have "learned the game" for years) loosing more ships to gankers than in the past, despite increased efforts to counteract ganks.
Paranoid Loyd 3755	Posted - 2015.02.05 00:58:45 - [40] - Quote Miranda Ka wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: If freighting in highsec was really so hard, rates would be higher and it would be a nice way to make ISK. But it's not, so it's safe for an avg skilled player, so only very bad players die. Learn the game or don't fly a freighter. Hauling rates have been steadily increasing in the past and the current trend of ganking will only contribute more to this. Obviously it's not gonna happen overnight because not every single freighter gets ganked all of a sudden, but there's a clear trend of even expired haulers (who have "learned the game" for years) loosing more ships to gankers than in the past, despite increased efforts to counteract ganks. Just because there is more propaganda and soap boxing does not mean the amount of ganking has increased. Can you produce numbers showing the increase or is this just your guess based on the influence of a bunch of whiners? "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Adoris Nolen Sama Guild 80	Posted - 2015.02.05 03:23:24 - [41] - Quote Can someone clear up a few things for me. Does bumping prevent e-warp? If the pilot logs w/o a timer, their ship warps off after a minute. If the pilot is aggressed after logging, does the ship still warp out in a minute?
dafe4dc Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2015.02.05 05:24:56 - [42] - Quote they now wait for you to log off, give you a timer, scan you down, then hyperdunk
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3677	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:49:50 - [43] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Miranda Ka wrote: Gully Alex Foyle wrote: If freighting in highsec was really so hard, rates would be higher and it would be a nice way to make ISK. But it's not, so it's safe for an avg skilled player, so only very bad players die. Learn the game or don't fly a freighter. Hauling rates have been steadily increasing in the past and the current trend of ganking will only contribute more to this. Obviously it's not gonna happen overnight because not every single freighter gets ganked all of a sudden, but there's a clear trend of even expired haulers (who have "learned the game" for years) loosing more ships to gankers than in the past, despite increased efforts to counteract ganks. Just because there is more propaganda and soap boxing does not mean the amount of ganking has increased. Can you produce numbers showing the increase or is this just your guess based on the influence of a bunch of whiners? ^^this. Miranda, you're correct about Red Frog increasing fees and it's very probably due to an increase in 'industrialized' ganking (CODE and such). But they're still low enough to make highsec hauling a relatively poor profession ISK/hour-wise. And, on the flip side, paying RFF or other 'pros' to haul your stuff is still a smarter choice ISK/hour-wise (better to pay and go run missions or incursions, instead of investing your play time to haul yourself). Anyway, I do agree that flying a freighter through popular 0.5 systems is risky and requires some skill and preparation, but that frankly seems good game design to me, working as intended. Why should a bulky and expensive capital ship, potentially filled with goodies, be safe in New Eden, especially in a 'border' highsec system (0.5)? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 3796	Posted - 2015.02.05 08:49:05 - [44] - Quote Thread locked. The Rules: 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counter productive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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