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Ominus Decre
Amarr
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:22:00 -
[1]
EVE's mechanics appear to support "fleet operations". The new VoIP features that are to be implimented are showcased in the respect of "fleet communications"; heiarchy of communication channels. Corporations and Alliances are here to fuel the strategy of supremecy which also facilitate tremendous acquisistions of power.
The server/cluster/nodes/what-ever-the-heck-you-want-to-call-it does not.
I've been in 180 ship fleet movements with little to no lag. I've seen 30-30 ships engage without a single delay in responce time or a degradation of client/server performance. There's also those times where a single ship or two warps in and it causes an entire opposing fleet to crash to desktop (ctd).
THIS IS NOT FUN.
What's the purpose of playing EVE if the archetecture does not support the presented and presumed game play?
No electronic warfare on my ship and I can lock and unlock numerous targets but I'm unable to activate a single module? Yes, locking till shown as "locked" yet no icon for locked target on screen is availble nor will any (can't disable modules that were already active)modules activate.
It gets better.
Ship explodes from opposing fleet who obviously was able to facilitate server and client performance and yet I'm still there in my little ship orbiting the same tarhet for over 5 minutes. I watched my ship explode but I'm still in it. Several minutes afterwards cap-display changes to reflect being in a pod and I get a wonderful system message "...cannot do that while warping"; still orbiting target.
The ship engagment was roughly 40 blue to 50 red, give or take a few.
The client ceased performing upon 2 ships warping in.
This is not fun. This is not why most people play games. I have enjoyed EVE Online up till these issues becoming a MAJOR factor over the last 5-7 weeks. (I'm sure they've been an issue longer for others)
This is not fun.
Sorry if this comes off as a rant. I've thought CCP had done a pretty darned good job with EVE for the most part. I've even had decent corospondence with their CSRs; minus that one 3-4 week delay regaring the exact same problem I'm highlighting in this thread and was told the problem was fixed. It's the latest stream of events which distract the greatness of EVE from the reality of a poorly functioning subscription based game.
Please fix it. Not "Soon(tm)" either. Hope that's not too much to ask. 
Perversion:  |
Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:23:00 -
[2]
Memory leak. Get more ram.
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RogerWilco
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:30:00 -
[3]
signed servers need to be checked - this is not good enough ccp
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DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:34:00 -
[4]
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/09/2006 23:35:07
was it a RA group, or group affiliated with RA? I had same exact problem with an RA alt corp gatecamp. I had no issues at all, then all of a sudden boom i'm getting ungodly amounts of lag. Even in fleet battles the lag is managable for me, but this was worse lag then i've ever seen in ANY game. And it wasn't a memory leak because i left station with no lag "in middle of kisogo".
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:34:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
The node dropped several times in our fight vs Ushra'Khan and its allies in 9UY, Providence, Unity system.
The OP is correct, its not fun. Lag can be felt from a fleet battle several systems away if they run on the same node.
Its not fun. I have 2gb of ram and it happens to me. It doesnt matter how much of a rig yur PC because all the information has to go through the server one way or another anyway.
Thanks,
Izo Azlion.
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/09/2006 23:35:07
was it a RA group, or group affiliated with RA? I had same exact problem with an RA alt corp gatecamp. I had no issues at all, then all of a sudden boom i'm getting ungodly amounts of lag. Even in fleet battles the lag is managable for me, but this was worse lag then i've ever seen in ANY game. And it wasn't a memory leak because i left station with no lag "in middle of kisogo".
It'll be a BoB group, probably, but dont name names and start blaming people on causing lag in a thread that goes off server issues, its the server, more often than not.
Izo Azlion.
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Ominus Decre
Amarr
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
I'll reserve flame for another day.
2gb of ddr2 isn't enough? Maybe someone at CCP would like to comment on this.
Perversion: |
DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:39:00 -
[8]
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/09/2006 23:40:09
Originally by: Exiled One
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
I'll reserve flame for another day.
2gb of ddr2 isn't enough? Maybe someone at CCP would like to comment on this.
This is what you described "The client ceased performing upon 2 ships warping in.
" not 'my mods wouldn't activate for 3 minutes' aka lag.
Exactly same problem as i had. Who were you fighting? RUS? Even looking at entire armies the lag was managable, we're talking about 3-4 seconds between frames right?
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Exiled One on 30/09/2006 23:40:19
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
I'll reserve flame for another day.
2gb of ddr2 isn't enough? Maybe someone at CCP would like to comment on this.
This is what you described "The client ceased performing upon 2 ships warping in.
" not 'my mods wouldn't activate for 3 minutes' aka lag.
EDIT: ceased performing could mean anything and can be client-sided: lockup etc. Known issue with 512 and less mb RAM.
In your case a node was dieing.
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Ominus Decre
Amarr
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
... dont name names and start blaming people on causing lag in a thread that goes off server issues, its the server, more often than not.
I could blame Jesus and Mohammed if I wanted to but that's not going to get the matter resolved.
Perversion: |
Al Catraz
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:40:00 -
[11]
Expect to see more problems before less imho.
There is a growing concern among players that the Devs actually no longer play ~(or actually have played )the game ,thus cannot comprehend the problems that have been blighting certain areas . A new software programmer see lines of code in a specific area. and not the game in its entirity. and does not have the luxury of understanding the elements of the game we all hold dear.
Yes problems arise and alot is due to player side hardware. - but much is server
side.
I am sure that they are doing the best they can - given the time constraints, However the trust that was once there - seems/appears to be evaporating . especially within the last months and influx of negative posts.
Must admit never, have I seen, the amount of very high skilled chars/toons being auctioned off , as is seen now. which is indicative of something.
Yes - it this is a mindless wavering rant. but at least I have expressed an opinion of my concerns and of those with whom I play.
I am an island
Al Catraz
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Exiled One
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
I'll reserve flame for another day.
2gb of ddr2 isn't enough? Maybe someone at CCP would like to comment on this.
This is what you described "The client ceased performing upon 2 ships warping in.
" not 'my mods wouldn't activate for 3 minutes' aka lag.
"Ship explodes from opposing fleet who obviously was able to facilitate server and client performance and yet I'm still there in my little ship orbiting the same tarhet for over 5 minutes. I watched my ship explode but I'm still in it. Several minutes afterwards cap-display changes to reflect being in a pod and I get a wonderful system message "...cannot do that while warping"; still orbiting target."
Thats lag, mate. Thats server side lag. When you lose a ship, be it a T1 Frig or a 5 billion isk fitted Faction battleship, you'll know what we mean.
Izo Azlion.
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DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:42:00 -
[13]
IZO you dont' know what youre' talking about, this isn't long time between click and fire. this is i'm getting a frame every 3-4 seconds "clintside" and it's impossible to even click the buttons in the first place right?
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 30/09/2006 23:40:09
Originally by: Exiled One
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
I'll reserve flame for another day.
2gb of ddr2 isn't enough? Maybe someone at CCP would like to comment on this.
This is what you described "The client ceased performing upon 2 ships warping in.
" not 'my mods wouldn't activate for 3 minutes' aka lag.
Exactly same problem as i had. Who were you fighting? RUS? Even looking at entire armies the lag was managable, we're talking about 3-4 seconds between frames right?
Some alliances down the south use some not so very known and also known sploits to cause such lag. 
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DubanFP
IZO you dont' know what youre' talking about, this isn't long time between click and fire. this is i'm getting a frame every 3-4 seconds "clintside" and it's impossible to even click the buttons in the first place right?
Either way - exploiting game mechanics to cause lag, depending on who you fight, of course. It exists since 2003 and is still being used. Nodes can handle 50v50 battles easily nowadays.
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Kazaam
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: Exiled One
Memory leak. Get more ram.
I'll reserve flame for another day.
2gb of ddr2 isn't enough? Maybe someone at CCP would like to comment on this.
Quite simple.
Your RAM has nothing to do with the server's lag, but only with YOUR pc's performances, such as buffing resources and the overall speed of the processes required by EVE to make it smooth on your side.
Server side, well... it's another story... the lag could be generated by an overloaded database, malfunctioning/inoperant network hardware/sotfware, insufficient CPU/RAM to smoothly calculate the billions of informations generated client-side, and so on...
It appears the most possible source is about the Dragon code, in which there might be some memory not unloading creating a RAM overload or something like that...
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Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Exiled One
In your case a node was dieing.
exactly.
25 to 30 secs module lag (fps was arround 20 to 30).
no mem leak here since I managed to make a workarround for it (have 1gb ddr btw)
since I uninstalled .NET framework all my eve-related mem leaks dissapeared.
but this is going OT.
The op is right. yesterday we had several node deaths, and today we had another node death.
This is worrying CCP. I know you guys are trying to iron out the server problems, but this is getting pretty desperate to get massive fleet battles like in the past.
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Taaketa Frist
The Praxis Initiative
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:47:00 -
[18]
I remember once being in a fleet operation about a year ago.
Jumped into system with "Jumping and cloaked" on.
Went away, made dinner, ate dinner came back and was still jumping in (although if I had dessert I would dead)
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Dang nabit |
Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ominus Decre
I've been in 180 ship fleet movements with little to no lag. I've seen 30-30 ships engage without a single delay in responce time or a degradation of client/server performance. There's also those times where a single ship or two warps in and it causes an entire opposing fleet to crash to desktop (ctd).
That, my friend is definately exploiting by the enemy. Such events can also happen if you entire fleet warps to a lag-infested zone (POS w/ bms plus lot more but won't get into details - it's all exploiting).
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:49:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Izo Azlion on 30/09/2006 23:49:23
Originally by: DubanFP
IZO you dont' know what youre' talking about, this isn't long time between click and fire. this is i'm getting a frame every 3-4 seconds "clintside" and it's impossible to even click the buttons in the first place right?
Clintside? That like, Westside, but not? ^.^
Back on topic;
It happens man, with that much stuff going on, everyone taking orders over vent and TS, people trying to lock and scramble... My CEO has a PC that when turned on, makes you cream yourself, twice, but he still gets the same kind of frames as I get in a fleet.
Edit: in a bad persiod of server stability.
Izo Azlion.
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Exiled One
In your case a node was dieing.
exactly.
25 to 30 secs module lag (fps was arround 20 to 30).
no mem leak here since I managed to make a workarround for it (have 1gb ddr btw)
since I uninstalled .NET framework all my eve-related mem leaks dissapeared.
but this is going OT.
The op is right. yesterday we had several node deaths, and today we had another node death.
This is worrying CCP. I know you guys are trying to iron out the server problems, but this is getting pretty desperate to get massive fleet battles like in the past.
Node deaths don't happen by themselves. (faulty server hardware, but that rarely happens) Even if your'e on the same node as jita you might get a jump in queue but node's death in 0.0 fleet battles is cause by exploiting imo.
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Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:52:00 -
[22]
Been there, fleet (ok i was drunk) am i docked yet.. in the middle of a fight near a station... you sit there, roll it back, a few mins later you find you're fate.
Not fun.
Tbh, id been logged on about 2 hrs this morning, i droped in a mission, 2 accounts going on 1gb.. my hd went into a 3 minute spasm (armour tanking thank ^^^^) on one client,, told my mate, he shouted more ram... mm ok then ill go out and buy another gig, i read now, 2 not enough.. mmm
I used to get this after about 4-5 hrs before (hd caching) now it's nearly a constant 1-2 hrs after logging.
I dunno, more ram, any difference:/
______
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Ominus Decre
Amarr
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DubanFP
IZO you dont' know what youre' talking about, this isn't long time between click and fire. this is i'm getting a frame every 3-4 seconds "clintside" and it's impossible to even click the buttons in the first place right?
In regards to teh recent event which inspired me to post this, I was experiancing frame rates consistently over 20. Yes minimum was around 20 fps. Average was closer to 35fps.
Perversion: |
DubanFP
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Exiled One
Originally by: Ominus Decre
I've been in 180 ship fleet movements with little to no lag. I've seen 30-30 ships engage without a single delay in responce time or a degradation of client/server performance. There's also those times where a single ship or two warps in and it causes an entire opposing fleet to crash to desktop (ctd).
That, my friend is definately exploiting by the enemy. Such events can also happen if you entire fleet warps to a lag-infested zone (POS w/ bms plus lot more but won't get into details - it's all exploiting).
Exactly :-/, just don't expect the GMs to do anything about it
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: DubanFP
IZO you dont' know what youre' talking about, this isn't long time between click and fire. this is i'm getting a frame every 3-4 seconds "clintside" and it's impossible to even click the buttons in the first place right?
In regards to teh recent event which inspired me to post this, I was experiancing frame rates consistently over 20. Yes minimum was around 20 fps. Average was closer to 35fps.
Thats the average everyone gets with maxed settings using midrange/high hardware. Server side lag, but don't blame CCP.
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Ominus Decre
Amarr
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.30 23:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Epsilon 1
Originally by: Ominus Decre
Originally by: DubanFP
IZO you dont' know what youre' talking about, this isn't long time between click and fire. this is i'm getting a frame every 3-4 seconds "clintside" and it's impossible to even click the buttons in the first place right?
In regards to teh recent event which inspired me to post this, I was experiancing frame rates consistently over 20. Yes minimum was around 20 fps. Average was closer to 35fps.
Thats the average everyone gets with maxed settings using midrange/high hardware. Server side lag, but don't blame CCP.
on the contrary, my frame rate is good. It's smooth with the occasional peaks in large fleet engagements. I rarely suffer from client lag unless I turn on all the effects while in fleet that has numerous bubbles displayed and i want to get nice and pretty close up's.
Frame rate is NOT a problem on my mahcine.
Also, I have ALL effects turned off as well the audio is disabled on the game client.
Perversion: |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.01 00:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Exiled One
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Exiled One
In your case a node was dieing.
exactly.
25 to 30 secs module lag (fps was arround 20 to 30).
no mem leak here since I managed to make a workarround for it (have 1gb ddr btw)
since I uninstalled .NET framework all my eve-related mem leaks dissapeared.
but this is going OT.
The op is right. yesterday we had several node deaths, and today we had another node death.
This is worrying CCP. I know you guys are trying to iron out the server problems, but this is getting pretty desperate to get massive fleet battles like in the past.
Node deaths don't happen by themselves. (faulty server hardware, but that rarely happens) Even if your'e on the same node as jita you might get a jump in queue but node's death in 0.0 fleet battles is cause by exploiting imo.
i'm pretty sure that there was no exploitation in both cases.
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.01 00:15:00 -
[28]
The good news is that every time the node crashed during the Providence/Pirate war the GMs and CCP were all over it. They threw everything at the problem but as soon as a fleet engagement took place next to a POS and the carriers did their thing the node would die eventualy and the lag was shocking.
Last night (local time) CCP also led some load testing on Singularity with exactly this scenario of POS + Fleet engagement in an effort to isolate the problems that cause this undue load on the node.
Bottom line is they are aware of it, they are looking to fix it. Bear in mind that in terms of MMO design that "fix teh lag ccp" is like asking them to cure cancer. It is not a simple case of sticking in another stick of ram on the node and deactivating the Acme Lag Generator.
Originally by: Exiled One
....That, my friend is definately exploiting by the enemy. Such events can also happen if you entire fleet warps to a lag-infested zone (POS w/ bms plus lot more but won't get into details - it's all exploiting).
You are joking right? The enemy are asaulting a POS with a half dozen dreads, support fleet and carriers and if we warp a fleet in on top of them we are exploiting? Attacking a POS with more than a couple of ships is exploiting?
It's fleet warfare numbnut, it involves fleets of ships clashing. That causes lag. None of us are thinking "hey lets crash the node!". We want a massive epic battle, if we don't deploy a fleet we lose the POS, if they don't deploy a fleet we keep the POS. Lag and node crashes do happen but you can't call anyone involved in fleet / POS warfare an exploiter. Thats retarded.
Post with your main.
>> RECRUITING << |
Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.10.01 00:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
The good news is that every time the node crashed during the Providence/Pirate war the GMs and CCP were all over it. They threw everything at the problem but as soon as a fleet engagement took place next to a POS and the carriers did their thing the node would die eventualy and the lag was shocking.
Last night (local time) CCP also led some load testing on Singularity with exactly this scenario of POS + Fleet engagement in an effort to isolate the problems that cause this undue load on the node.
Bottom line is they are aware of it, they are looking to fix it. Bear in mind that in terms of MMO design that "fix teh lag ccp" is like asking them to cure cancer. It is not a simple case of sticking in another stick of ram on the node and deactivating the Acme Lag Generator.
Originally by: Exiled One
....That, my friend is definately exploiting by the enemy. Such events can also happen if you entire fleet warps to a lag-infested zone (POS w/ bms plus lot more but won't get into details - it's all exploiting).
You are joking right? The enemy are asaulting a POS with a half dozen dreads, support fleet and carriers and if we warp a fleet in on top of them we are exploiting? Attacking a POS with more than a couple of ships is exploiting?
It's fleet warfare numbnut, it involves fleets of ships clashing. That causes lag. None of us are thinking "hey lets crash the node!". We want a massive epic battle, if we don't deploy a fleet we lose the POS, if they don't deploy a fleet we keep the POS. Lag and node crashes do happen but you can't call anyone involved in fleet / POS warfare an exploiter. Thats retarded.
Post with your main.
POS w/ bms? Shuttles boom boom, lag crash dead, no speak english nor read?
You might want an epic battle but i know some that can not win those battles without said exploiting (warping on top of the enemy exploiting -Lol where did i say that?).
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Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.10.01 00:33:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Exiled One on 01/10/2006 00:34:55
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Easy fix.
One BoB player and one ASCN player jump into a system and play a game of rock-paper-scissors.
The loser self destructs and then a coin toss decides the pod's fate.
Rinse and repeat until you have a winner.
**To beat the titan you have to win 5-in-a-row.
You guys ever wondered why ISD monitored MASSIVE battles always go flawlessly? Like when RA lost 9 +-1 dreads, 2 second lag tops.
Simpliest of them all - release drones (50 ships at least 100 drones) if you're expecting an attack or know the enemy is in warp (or a jump in) to you. Drone release takes a few seconds, then you experience no lag, now the fleet that warps in to you will suffer major lag and will hang in there for at least 1 minute not able to target nor activate any module. Oldest trick in the book.
THIS IS BY ALL MEANS not an advice, just a simple example.
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