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Idea: Ban alts from all forums

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Mariko San Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.10.01 16:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Womble God Maybe instead of banning alts and restricting newer players we could just get rid of the idiots? It would be great but I doubt an MMO with only about 1000 players would be sustainable :)
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:04:00 - [32] I've seen many threads where alt posts have been summarily dismissed simply because they are/maybe an alt, despite perfectly valid points being made. Alts serve several purposes as has already been mentioned. As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling, I don't see a problem. If you can't come up with a valid argument to their points other than "use your main" keep quiet.
Womble God Gallente Compression Space Transport	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:06:00 - [33] Edited by: Womble God on 01/10/2006 17:08:02 Red Ochre, are you saying that Spurious Signal is an employee of CCP? EDIT: Lol at your comment there Mariko, though I would hope that there arent that many idiots playing the game (plus I hope im counted in with that 1000 if that is the case).
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Red Ochre your post had good intentions, but in your typing execution you went from an opinion to opinionated (name calling, branding etc, just bad form) and hence, your post was more troll than infomercial to suggest a fix to an amusing problem. this is another one of your attempts to fix your precieved problem? post in the suggestions forum, WITH a possible solution. i find it distasteful for employees to make suggestions, whine, ***** or moan (if that is indeed the case) without presenting viable solutions in the proper forum. in your case it would be the suggestions forum. "get to steppin gina" I am opinionated. I don't think I called anyone names in my post, I may have used some fairly unequivocal language, but it wasn't directed at specifically at any individual. In fact I had to resist the urge to name specific names, but resist it I did Also I'm not your employee. And I did present an idea for a solution. And if a mod thought this thread should be in the suggestions forum it'd be there by now... So what exactly are you talking about?
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:24:00 - [36] Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are valid.
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:26:12 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are just as valid. Alts are known ppl that are hiding their identity to flame. Ignoring their corp policy. Mains can get punished by their CEO for that. Corp Policy works here. Ship lovers click here
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:35:00 - [38] Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:35:50 blech, double post.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:26:12 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are just as valid. Alts are known ppl that are hiding their identity to flame. Ignoring their corp policy. Mains can get punished by their CEO for that. Corp Policy works here. Again, if ANY char is used for flaming it should be dealt with, main or alt. That's why we have mods. Also when someone is not in a corp, is the NPC CEO going to 'punish' them? The whole concept is based on flawed logic.
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Angry Alt Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:26:12 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are just as valid. Alts are known ppl that are hiding their identity to flame. Ignoring their corp policy. Mains can get punished by their CEO for that. Corp Policy works here. Again, if ANY char is used for flaming it should be dealt with, main or alt. That's why we have mods. Also when someone is not in a corp, is the NPC CEO going to 'punish' them? The whole concept is based on flawed logic. Most trolls and flames came from alts in noob corps in the Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions forum. This did reduce the trolling more than you can imagine. If you are part of the discussion, why hide behind a noob corp alt? Post with the char that is involved in (mostly) the battle and all is fine. Ship lovers click here
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:57:00 - [41] Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:59:48 That's fine and well for Corp/Alliance chats, I just don't see it as a benefit for other forums like general. Many posts from alts on general have nothing to do with any battle. It is another form of quelling discussion on a topic, where people may not want to post with their 'main' for one reason or another. Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Angry Alt Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:26:12 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are just as valid. Alts are known ppl that are hiding their identity to flame. Ignoring their corp policy. Mains can get punished by their CEO for that. Corp Policy works here. Again, if ANY char is used for flaming it should be dealt with, main or alt. That's why we have mods. Also when someone is not in a corp, is the NPC CEO going to 'punish' them? The whole concept is based on flawed logic. Most trolls and flames came from alts in noob corps in the Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions forum. This did reduce the trolling more than you can imagine. If you are part of the discussion, why hide behind a noob corp alt? Post with the char that is involved in (mostly) the battle and all is fine. That's fine and well for Corp/Alliance chats, I just don't see it as a benefit for other forums like general. Many posts from alts on general have nothing to do with any battle. It is another form of quelling discussion on a topic, where people may not want to post with their 'main' for one reason or another. Again, if the post has merit, why care who posts it, main or alt?
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:12:00 - [42] What are the possible motivations for posting with an alt? Anonymousness serves as means to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of answering for your deeds, or in this case, words. Should we be allowed to whisper accusations from behind the corner? To many, the answer is no. That's why they ignore anything an alt says. Alts may bring up valid arguments instead of using their disguise for trolling or flaming, but they are still not noted because they didn't have the courage to stand behind their words. The jury will only listen to those who dare stand up and testify. Whether or not I think a working restriction can be implemented, I do think that generally avoiding responsibility should not be allowed or encouraged. ---
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:25:00 - [43] Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 18:26:09 Originally by: Jin Entres What are the possible motivations for posting with an alt? Anonymousness serves as means to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of answering for your deeds, or in this case, words. Should we be allowed to whisper accusations from behind the corner? To many, the answer is no. That's why they ignore anything an alt says. Alts may bring up valid arguments instead of using their disguise for trolling or flaming, but they are still not noted because they didn't have the courage to stand behind their words. The jury will only listen to those who dare stand up and testify. Whether or not I think a working restriction can be implemented, I do think that generally avoiding responsibility should not be allowed or encouraged. Responsibility to who exactly? My "main" is in an NPC corp, do you really think that being in an NPC corp makes posts by 'alts' any less valid? Even if someone is in a corp and posts with their 'main' is it more valid than a person in a corp who posts a valid point less worthy? Please. Alts have a purpose, not just to flame or troll. I'll take this discussion as a perfect example. Posting a valid argument, whether alt or main has merit. If you seriously think posting with an alt is less worthy of consideration, I'd say you think incorrectly. 'Main or Alt', has nothing to do with the point being made. Address the point of the post. Otherwise a 'main' posting 'use your main' has just as much muster as an alt or main flaming/trolling.
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 18:26:09 Originally by: Jin Entres What are the possible motivations for posting with an alt? Anonymousness serves as means to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of answering for your deeds, or in this case, words. Should we be allowed to whisper accusations from behind the corner? To many, the answer is no. That's why they ignore anything an alt says. Alts may bring up valid arguments instead of using their disguise for trolling or flaming, but they are still not noted because they didn't have the courage to stand behind their words. The jury will only listen to those who dare stand up and testify. Whether or not I think a working restriction can be implemented, I do think that generally avoiding responsibility should not be allowed or encouraged. Responsibility to who exactly? My "main" is in an NPC corp, do you really think that being in an NPC corp makes posts by 'alts' any less valid? Even if someone is in a corp and posts with their 'main' is it more valid than a person in a corp who posts a valid point less worthy? Please. Alts have a purpose, not just to flame or troll. I'll take this discussion as a perfect example. Posting a valid argument, whether alt or main has merit. If you seriously think posting with an alt is less worthy of consideration, I'd say you think incorrectly. 'Main or Alt', has nothing to do with the point being made. Address the point of the post. Otherwise a 'main' posting 'use your main' has just as much muster as an alt or main flaming/trolling. I agree with Jin. The fact that you chose, many months ago to make an alt with this name (for forum purposes) shows that you are well aware of both sides of the argument. Let's just say we disagree with each other. Many alts ideas are worthy of merit and discussion. What the OP is trying to stop is alts posting statements like "all pirates are griefers who have low RL self-esteem" and others in that vein. Lets face it, the vastmajority of alt posts are in this vein. Noone has a problem with Testy McTest and Naughty Boy and other constructive alt posters. It's just they are notable exceptions to the rule that seems to dictate that alts are flaming smacktards.
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:46:00 - [45] Encouraging players to go into a corporation is 1 thing, making it obligated is BS. This is my main, I am a new player, and I dont want to get into a corporation yet. Maybe in a few months I will. Not allowing me to post is big BS and any person with half a brain can see this. If you treat new players like this, you wont get any new players, and the game will fade. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:26:12 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are just as valid. Er, I wasn't flaming or trolling there.... I was agreeing. It's a quote from Hamlet. Of course I may have misunderstood you there, apologies if I have :) As far as flaming and trolling go, yeah I agree that in essence it's just as bad regardless of whether or not the flamer/troll has the ******* to use their main or not - which is why I asked for ideas. I never thought my proposed idea of banning alts was a complete and perfect solution and as this thread develops I'm becomming even less convinced. Where I was coming from with the original idea was that it seems to be much more likely that a flame or trolling post will come from one of these forum alt characters certain people make. I really think an "ignore" button would work better tbh.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 18:26:09 Originally by: Jin Entres What are the possible motivations for posting with an alt? Anonymousness serves as means to avoid responsibility. The responsibility of answering for your deeds, or in this case, words. Should we be allowed to whisper accusations from behind the corner? To many, the answer is no. That's why they ignore anything an alt says. Alts may bring up valid arguments instead of using their disguise for trolling or flaming, but they are still not noted because they didn't have the courage to stand behind their words. The jury will only listen to those who dare stand up and testify. Whether or not I think a working restriction can be implemented, I do think that generally avoiding responsibility should not be allowed or encouraged. Responsibility to who exactly? My "main" is in an NPC corp, do you really think that being in an NPC corp makes posts by 'alts' any less valid? Even if someone is in a corp and posts with their 'main' is it more valid than a person in a corp who posts a valid point less worthy? Please. Alts have a purpose, not just to flame or troll. I'll take this discussion as a perfect example. Posting a valid argument, whether alt or main has merit. If you seriously think posting with an alt is less worthy of consideration, I'd say you think incorrectly. 'Main or Alt', has nothing to do with the point being made. Address the point of the post. Otherwise a 'main' posting 'use your main' has just as much muster as an alt or main flaming/trolling. I agree with Jin. The fact that you chose, many months ago to make an alt with this name (for forum purposes) shows that you are well aware of both sides of the argument. Let's just say we disagree with each other. Many alts ideas are worthy of merit and discussion. What the OP is trying to stop is alts posting statements like "all pirates are griefers who have low RL self-esteem" and others in that vein. Lets face it, the vastmajority of alt posts are in this vein. Noone has a problem with Testy McTest and Naughty Boy and other constructive alt posters. It's just they are notable exceptions to the rule that seems to dictate that alts are flaming smacktards. I can agree with disagreeing. There's two sides to every coin. Discussion via alts and trolling/flaming are different beasts. If an alt or main for that matter just posts trash, flame and general crap, I've got no beef with warning/banning them. When an 'alt' posts valid arguments and is simply rebuked with 'post with your main', I see problems. Ban the 'mains' and 'alts' who contribute nothing, don't ban those who have legitimate complaints that would rather express their opinions through other channels in 'fear' of their posts. This whole thread is an example of this. Discussion can happen with alts without flaming or trolling.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:08:00 - [48] Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 19:13:47 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 01/10/2006 17:26:12 Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt As long as they're not used for flaming/trolling Aye, there's the rub What's the difference between a 'main' and an 'alt' when flaming/trolling? Anyone flaming/trolling should be dealt with swiftly and harshly IMO. Legitimate posts, whether main or alt are just as valid. Er, I wasn't flaming or trolling there.... I was agreeing. It's a quote from Hamlet. Of course I may have misunderstood you there, apologies if I have :) As far as flaming and trolling go, yeah I agree that in essence it's just as bad regardless of whether or not the flamer/troll has the ******* to use their main or not - which is why I asked for ideas. I never thought my proposed idea of banning alts was a complete and perfect solution and as this thread develops I'm becomming even less convinced. Where I was coming from with the original idea was that it seems to be much more likely that a flame or trolling post will come from one of these forum alt characters certain people make. I really think an "ignore" button would work better tbh. I never thought you were flaming/trolling, I apologize if it came across as such. My main point is that alt posts many times have valid points, and are dismissed because they're alts. As I've said, my 'main' has always been in a NPC corp, does that make my point any less valid? I choose to solo simply because I can't dedicate the necessary time to be a contributing member of a corp. Does that make points made any less valid? I say no. It is good to have a real discussion on the subject though :)
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Angry Alt I never thought you were flaming/trolling, I'm sorry if it came across as such. My main point is that alt posts many times have valid points, and are dismissed because they're alts. As I've said, my 'main' has always been in a NPC corp, does that make my point any less valid? I choose to solo simply because I can't dedicate the necessary time to be a contributing member of a corp. Does that make points made any less valid? I say no. It is good to have a real discussion on the subject though :) Nope, I agree, I've been in exactly the same position before regarding being in NPC corps. I'm really leaning towards the "ignore button" answer a lot more now It's a shame that the forums have got to the state they're in though - although I suppose the pirate/pvp/sandbox nature of EVE does have one downside in that it attracts sociopaths. Hmm, there's another thought (just thinking out loud here) - sociopathic behaviour seems to be glorified in EVE, Dentara Rast being a case in point, although he was vilified more than glorified, at least within EVE. Maybe that's one of the root causes of the infestation of hate on the forums recently? Some days it seems that 80% of the forum posters are Yarr! types, and without the honour and pride that Yarrs of olde had. I dunno, if nothing else that'll generate a few more flames and indignant alt posts
The M'hael	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:19:00 - [50] Edited by: The M''hael on 01/10/2006 19:20:41 No. Alts are essential if you plan to be a 'nice' person and post ship fittings, otherwise you wind up with people coming after you full of confidence that they know exactly what you're using and have it countered. Now, an argument can be made that whether they're right or not is clearly a function of the poster's intelligence, but that doesn't mean it isn't annoying. Besides, what are you going to do? Force us to designate a "main" and have other characters be "alts" ? What stops someone from designating an "alt" as their "main" and ignoring you? It's a bad idea on so many levels that I'm just going to stop here and let Godwin's Law kill the thread: You are a forum ****! edit: okay wow, I've never seen a filter filter out THAT particular word before. They probably should, actually...Kudos to CCP for that...but the Godwin's Law reference at least makes clear I'm not calling you something totally inappropriate =P
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:25:00 - [51] Originally by: spurious signal Originally by: Angry Alt I never thought you were flaming/trolling, I'm sorry if it came across as such. My main point is that alt posts many times have valid points, and are dismissed because they're alts. As I've said, my 'main' has always been in a NPC corp, does that make my point any less valid? I choose to solo simply because I can't dedicate the necessary time to be a contributing member of a corp. Does that make points made any less valid? I say no. It is good to have a real discussion on the subject though :) Nope, I agree, I've been in exactly the same position before regarding being in NPC corps. I'm really leaning towards the "ignore button" answer a lot more now It's a shame that the forums have got to the state they're in though - although I suppose the pirate/pvp/sandbox nature of EVE does have one downside in that it attracts sociopaths. Hmm, there's another thought (just thinking out loud here) - sociopathic behaviour seems to be glorified in EVE, Dentara Rast being a case in point, although he was vilified more than glorified, at least within EVE. Maybe that's one of the root causes of the infestation of hate on the forums recently? Some days it seems that 80% of the forum posters are Yarr! types, and without the honour and pride that Yarrs of olde had. I dunno, if nothing else that'll generate a few more flames and indignant alt posts I totally agree, the forums have declined in 'useful' posts. Getting back to your original post, removing alts from most/all forums isn't an answer. There are exceptions to every rule. It's sad that many alts just post trash but don't exclude the remainder of alts from bringing relevant points to a discussion.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:39:00 - [52] Originally by: The M'hael No. Alts are essential if you plan to be a 'nice' person and post ship fittings, otherwise you wind up with people coming after you full of confidence that they know exactly what you're using and have it countered. Paranoia - baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others. Seriously, I've been posting on the Ships & Modules forum for almost two years, and no one has ever come after me for that reason nor have I ever heard of it happening to anyone else. ---
CyberGh0st	Posted - 2006.10.02 07:37:00 - [53] I dont see the problems here, people who start with flames / trolling / cursing etc must get a warning. CCP knows who is who, alt or main, all the same account. After a warning a ban for x amount of time. I see alot of hard work being done here on moderating the forums, perhaps giving some warnings to certain people would mean a little less work for the mods. Greetings, CyberGh0st.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.02 07:53:00 - [54] Please, anyone else posting here, make some effort to read some of the things I've said since I posted my original post. I have, in response to some good arguments put forward on this thread, changed my mind about the idea. I don't think it would work, I don't think the potential benefits would outweigh the downsides, particularly relating to new players. I think an "Ingore poster" button would work much better, that way any and all of us could block whoever we wanted - those alts (and mains) who just spout rubbish would disappear from our own personal radars
Keorythe Caldari The Royal Mobile Corp Genesis Industrial Foundation	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:10:00 - [55] Originally by: spurious signal Yeah, people disagreeing with the things I say I have no problem with. At least I have the balls to actually use my main to say the things I say. If I say something wrong, or I am won over by discussion, I'm man enough to admit it. Two comments there are the main basis for wanting people to post with mains instead of alts. So what if you know who their mains are? Going to hold a grudge? Going to go emo and cry in a corner somewhere when someone says bad things about you? Give it up dude. If someone posts with an alt and its within the forum rules then it makes no difference whether its their main or not. Its already been proven that people can undermine and hijack threads, post unrelated crap, and generally not be constructive with their mains just as easy with an alt. With great power comes great responsibility...and hawt cyborz!

wystler Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Lemming Merangue I understand the removal of us alts from corp and aliance forums but I see no reason to remove them from discussions where corp has no relevance. Agreed. Alts and NPC corp members have no business discussing player corporations, which is why that rule is in place. Any trolling from alts or mains is treated equally harshly by a mod who reviews it, because the only place we make a distinction between alts and mains is in C.A.O.D forum. Other than that, we treat alts as if they are mains, and they are subject to all the forum rules. I would suggest that anyone who spots any trolling report it to us via email - [email protected] eve-crc.net \| forum rules \| c.a.o.d forum rules \| [email protected] Official keeper of the smilie. Yarr!

zaltzalt	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:22:00 - [57] Originally by: wystler Originally by: Lemming Merangue I understand the removal of us alts from corp and aliance forums but I see no reason to remove them from discussions where corp has no relevance. Agreed. Alts and NPC corp members have no business discussing player corporations, which is why that rule is in place. Any trolling from alts or mains is treated equally harshly by a mod who reviews it, because the only place we make a distinction between alts and mains is in C.A.O.D forum. Other than that, we treat alts as if they are mains, and they are subject to all the forum rules. I would suggest that anyone who spots any trolling report it to us via email - [email protected] Just what exactly does constitute trolling, so I can be clear when I report someone.

wystler Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:24:00 - [58] Originally by: zaltzalt Just what exactly does constitute trolling, so I can be clear when I report someone. Check out the forum rules for some guidance on what is and is not acceptable. As to whether we classify it as a personal attack, trolling, spam, or a myriad of other terms, will be down to the person who checks out your reported post eve-crc.net \| forum rules \| c.a.o.d forum rules \| [email protected] Official keeper of the smilie. Yarr!

Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:36:00 - [59] Originally by: spurious signal Please, anyone else posting here, make some effort to read some of the things I've said since I posted my original post. I have, in response to some good arguments put forward on this thread, changed my mind about the idea. I don't think it would work, I don't think the potential benefits would outweigh the downsides, particularly relating to new players. I think an "Ingore poster" button would work much better, that way any and all of us could block whoever we wanted - those alts (and mains) who just spout rubbish would disappear from our own personal radars you'r original idea i don't lke either,,, but you'r second idea i would vote for ), i have atlest 3-4 main names on charectors I would hit the ignore button on the very second i could hehe...
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:44:00 - [60] Originally by: newsreader Alt smackdown hasn't worked from what i've seen there is still as much smack and crap posted as ever The difference being that we can now see who is smacking who. There's no hiding behind anonymity anymore. If you want to say something inflamatory then you (or your corp/alliance) had better be prepared to face the in-game consequences. That is what makes the no-alt rule so great. I think it would be far too much of a pain to introduce to General Discussion though. It looks hard enough to keep on top of things as it is.

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