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Blacklight
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Posted - 2003.10.25 18:36:00 -
[31]
Superb post Jade, very well written and well formulated arguements.
Much appreciated.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Arvis Ottoman
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Posted - 2003.10.25 18:43:00 -
[32]
Well done. An excellent read. I shall miss your most excellent posts, Jade.
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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2003.10.25 18:58:00 -
[33]
Damn.
And I so wanted to say this thread was a waste of bandwidth.  Thanks very much JC.
If Jade is still playing in a few years she'd be like the wise old woman in some spooky backwater system, and players would seek her for advice and the history of EVE.
Damn good thread, i'm not sure about Queen or Empress but you're getting there. I just hope one day your 'M'dear' turns into an 'Arrrrr!' and your  turns to  . Then you'd see life on the other side and understand what Tank is so upset about. 
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Asmodia
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Posted - 2003.10.25 18:59:00 -
[34]
Fantastic post.
Some nice 'sidekicks' in the right direction.
------------------------------------------------
CEO of Spectre Syndicate - Curse Alliance
------------------------------------------------ |
shakaZ XIV
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:00:00 -
[35]
Edited by: shakaZ XIV on 25/10/2003 19:02:45
 Quote:
And concord needs to come with realistic abilities.
If I commit a crime in Amarr Prime I want to see a couple of ArmageddonĘs and an Apocalypse with Maller support spawn and warp in, (and all of them having realistic limitations, loadout, and appropriate loot tables).
If I fight and win then more should come, and then more afterwards, and eventually yes, I should be driven from the system or die.
But not a single irresistible insta-lock concord gank team to jamm and web me and blast me in seconds ... that just jarrs against my suspension of disbelief in game reality.
And as security levels drop we should see graded levels of response;
In .4-.1 we should see slow to non-existent response from cruisers and frigates with a battleship squadron coming only after a great deal of time and carnage.
Yes! That would be so much better then how concord is at the moment. Tbh, this is more or less what i thought the first time i saw concord ships when i just got into the game.
And story-wise: Whats with 4 totally different empires having some sort of godly interpol fleet present well, everywhere :/ how can minmatars trust the same police that protects the Amarrians for example :P (Oh and on that subject, all 4 empires getting along well is BORING!!)
Why not just let the local navy deal with local trouble and scrap concord alltogether? And i agree wholeheartedly with the Quote:
all of them having realistic limitations
, which would also be nice for pirate npcs by the way. But that might be a ***** server-wise, it would probably take up too much resources? Can't see any other problem, except smart people being able to get away with stuff once again and hardcore-carebears whining like a [expletive deleted] (hah i beat the bad word filter )
This is not supposed to be a sim game for gods sake :/
Oh btw, good stuff, makes a nice change from the usual PR bs
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Twiagon
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:01:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Excellent post! Make this a sticky!!
EVE now makes a lot more sense to me at least.
Thank you VERY much Jade for taking the time and effort to write that.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:13:00 -
[37]
great post..
Now i only wonder...why are these changes not made yet be the devs??
They dont seem to grasp that uber concord and uber sentries are ruining the fun that can be had in this game...they are stomping any form of revenge you might have had...
you killed me! im gonna kill YOU! oh no wait sentries...oh no damn concord...oh boy more sentries...well il just have to wait for whenever this person goes into 0.0
Bah, rediculous..
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Velsharoon
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:27:00 -
[38]
Very good post Jade, I hope that someone in ccp actually reads this and realises that this appears to be what most people want in the game.
Also nice to know that i am a survivor 
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Kunming
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:30:00 -
[39]
To discribe with one word:
PERFECT
Make this a sticky
Intercepting since BETA |
Cptn Stardust
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:34:00 -
[40]
right u lot, stop inflating Jade's ego for christ sakes.
all the creepy posts (but then it's nearly halloween i s'pose)
u bored this Saturday or what?
<lol>
It's a good read, useful for people that have joined up recently, so they can have a read about what they missed, and get a more complete picture |
Daemun Khanid
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:47:00 -
[41]
Just to add my 2 cents, Great read Jade. Very well thought out and informative for all. Curious to see a responce by Tank. 
VADM. Daemun of Khanid |
Horus Kahn
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Posted - 2003.10.25 19:54:00 -
[42]
Yes - agree. Best read in the forums that i've seen for a while. I'm sure most players can see themselves in your list. Me, i guess I'm a survivor at present.
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Mi Canio
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:00:00 -
[43]
Intelligent, interesting, mature, informative....
Am I in the wrong forum?? No flaming, no moaning, no whingeing (we'll to see what Tank CEO has to say tho......)
Really good work Jade, CCP should put it in the manual.....
Ensign Mi Canio - MIL Div. - Combat Air Patrol
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:10:00 -
[44]
Very good post, I hope you are or will be in the CSM, you will have my vote...
As for what type I am, well spending most of my time in 0.0 I would say survivor, the description is spot on down to my eye coulor :)
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:10:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Miri Tirzan on 25/10/2003 20:11:17
Jade, this is truely the best analysis of PvP and how we have arrived at this point that I have seen. This should be mandatory reading for all new players and the Dev team!
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Deneba Zaavi
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:11:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Deneba Zaavi on 25/10/2003 20:12:50
Nice, well written and layed out.:)
It was 'bout time. Someone who testified the game evolution since the start writes about the story of some basic yet very important game mechanics (read: combat and sec rating system evolution). I saw too many shortsighted and misinformed thread started these last weeks.
Good job lady Costantine.
P.S: Thx for the nice "Official NVA approved Hardcore Pirates" badge! We love it so much! (No kidding here...:D)
Deneba Zaavi
"The world is perfect as it is: a complete mess" - Joseph Campbell |
Lianhaun
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:28:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Lianhaun on 25/10/2003 20:36:34
Almost objective
Its a very nice read Jade, is this a token of support for Tank Ceo's plea to try and keep piracy in the game? Or something entirely different?
This is not a hijack
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Stavros
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:34:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Stavros on 25/10/2003 20:50:51
Edited by: Stavros on 25/10/2003 20:41:37
Hey jade your wrong, just for a change.
We were never 'nuked' by the 'four', they killed rev, thats it ONE ship ONE pilot.
Rev, cos he was the only one daft enough to go fight them.
We stayed in empire space for WEEKS after that point.
Secondly, m0o never ever lost a combat engagement, we were never beaten ever, period. End of story... The biggest loss we ever took was against rus corp when j0rt and ywev got decked 2vs2 (thanks to the covenant guy below, I had forgotten about this one, cos we all used to laugh about it on ts with the rus guys)
Every fleet that we engaged was driven off, we either won battles or we didnt fight. Yet again you dont have a a clue what you are talking about, you can babble about crap like NvA and general PR spin, but pls dont tread on the turf of piracy. m0o was m0o, we even smashed evolution when they came after us, nobody stood up to us cos they got knocked on their asses. The reason we are gone is because the game cannot support players of our calibre and we got bored of loosing our hard earned advantages as the rest of the people in this game caught up with us.
Piracy in eve hasnt been a viable profession since beta with plutonium runs. Sure you get a nice load maybe 1 out of 50 kills but I dont believe there is a pirate out there who doesnt make money some other way, be it mining or whatever.
Piracy has been dead for months and months, its just a nice excuse to get out there and kill people.
Although I do respect Space Invaders for what they do, you only have to look at their wealth in terms of cash/bships to realise how far behind m0o they were. We had the first bships on the server and we did nothing but kill people all day (well that and make back handed deals and get rich easily).
Remember this formula for it somes up this thread well:
n00bs + opinions = bad games
Stav
(Who has quit, but couldnt let this guy spout on about stuff anymore)
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Techie Zero
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:40:00 -
[49]
Jade---like I said in the other post you linked from --- pretty good.
I realize I may be biased, but I still feel you are too hard on Tank. He works his butt off to do what he does and he is trying to play with the cards dealt by CCP thus far.
I think though that he like myself and many others don't want to see CCP insanely patching for the 'hardcore' carebears and/or White Dwarfs.
From experience I found that this type of crowd typically screams the most, but represents the fewest. Unfortunately the establishments perceptions (CCP in this instance) get twisted to appease this vocal minority. This is what you touched on in your post and it has happened already. I and Tank FEAR it will happen AGAIN.
I think we all want a fun, challenging game. I don't think we want to satisfy our selfish desires. If this was the case I know I will be bored of the game too quickly and will not feel a hard earned feeling of accomplishment.
CCP I feel is at a very critical time right now. What they do in the next few weeks I think will make or break this game; for me especially. Many people like myself have run out of patience with the bugs, lack of content, poor server performance, and to emphasize---bugs.
I want this game to succeed. I have a lot of time invested in my character, I got great friends to play with and even better GREAT ENEMIES to fight against. I don't want to give this up. I am hoping that I am part of the solution the only way I know how---this forum. 
EVE-I.com~THE Info source |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:47:00 -
[50]
@ Stavros - who fought RUS then it one of the first BS vs BS encounters? Hot air?
free speech not allowed here |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:49:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Stavros on 25/10/2003 20:49:54
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Glowmember
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:52:00 -
[52]
The reason we are gone is because the game cannot support players of our calibre and we got bored of loosing our hard earned advantages as the rest of the people in this game caught up with us.
Let me just translate this statement.
As soon as CCP leveled the playing field and took away our advantages, we had to quit, because it just wasn't fun for us to fight people who would actually have a chance at fighting back.
Everything you said reinforces Jade's theory, that you, your corp and others like you were too stupid to realize that you were responsible for nerfing yourselves. The reason you are gone is because players of your caliber couldn't adapt after you geniuses couldn't wait to own some noobs.
Good Riddance
Adapt or Die
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:53:00 -
[53]
Jade does a pretty good summary of things. However I have to say that there is a noticable skew in her perspective, probably from her position in the Eve universe.
To me a pirate is a pirate is a pirate. From the lone ore thief to Biomass, with several different forms of 'piracy' in between. The word 'Pirate' is a general term to me that describes a person that does nasty things to people, regardless of their motivation.
Used in that manner, there are several people who might fit the bill. After all, a politican could be viewed as nothing more than a pirate of ideology, n'cest pas?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.10.25 20:57:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Hey jade your wrong, just for a change.
We were never 'nuked' by the 'four', they killed rev, thats it ONE ship ONE pilot.
Rev, cos he was the only one daft enough to go fight them.
We stayed in empire space for WEEKS after that point.
Secondly, m0o never ever lost a combat engagement, we were never beaten ever, period. End of story...
Every fleet that we engaged was driven off, we either won battles or we didnt fight. Yet again you dont have a a clue what you are talking about, you can babble about crap like NvA and general PR spin, but pls dont tread on the turf of piracy. m0o was m0o, we even smashed evolution when they came after us, nobody stood up to us cos they got knocked on their asses. The reason we are gone is because the game cannot support players of our calibre and we got bored of loosing our hard earned advantages as the rest of the people in this game caught up with us.
Stav
(Who has quit, but couldnt let this guy spout on about stuff anymore)
Hmm interesting.
This shows the phycology of the Pirate.
Not interested in the actual information in Jades post just wanting to make sure your legacy is secure as unbeaten pirates.
dont you have aview on the "history" other than details about your prowess.
And to the others who say im being a care bear for saying pirateing draws the lazey and immature to it (Not all i may add - there are intelligent thinking pirates. I know this from comments in the forum) As i read Jades post i thought this matches my theories on pirating in eve those who had it good are BITTER now.
I dont think you have to be real clever to work any of it out without a 20 page essay (No offence Jade).
I get real annoyed about bleaters .. and exploiters.. and greifers. AFK mining with macroes sucks. Warp camping sucks. Ore theives suck.
But no ammount of argueing in a Forum and name calling will change the games mechanics.
I have no experience with pirating nor pvp for that matter but it seems to me that EVE is sadly lackingin its mechanics. If pirating is just camping i cant see any future in it.
Here is an idea's to add some spice??
How about a device that is a lot like the MWD in its reduction of shld cap and grid. But would allow you to disrupt warp drives for 10 seconds or so.
So here is how it would work:
Spotter a (at gate) says hay large haul on rute to gate b.
Group of pirates in position on warp path (between gate a and b) and one engages device.
Hauler drops out of warp and is engaged.
This whole question of pirates being tossers and everyone else being a care bear is nonsense.
It just seems to me that the only way peeps have been able to pirate (as productivly as they did in the past) involves what most people would call deviation of game mechanics(notice i didnt use exploit - too emotive).
Any way i guess im just trying to explain my bitterness to pirates.. And as i write this is see that its not directed at them it is directed (or should be ) at the game.
Tata
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.25 21:13:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Hmm interesting.
This shows the phycology of the Pirate.
...
More importantly, your posting speaks volumes about your psychological makeup.
Namely, you can't resist a chance to spout about the failings of others.
I've known Stavros for a fair bit now ingame. From when he was Stavr0s. Many of those that did know him trully wish he'd drop the act, just for a minute, and let people know what was really going on at some point.
He wasn't just one of the most bloodthirsty, merciless pirates in the game. He was also among the richest. And his near universal dislike almost guarantees that he achieved that without exploiting. As I'm fairly certain specific people from above crawled through his account regularly for an excuse to get rid of him.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.10.25 21:15:00 -
[56]
What-ever jash.
Im not in the mood for you now perhasp another time.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.10.25 21:23:00 -
[57]
Good post.
I wanted to put something up in a similar vein, although it wouldn't have been nearly as eloquent, or well formatted 
I didn't, because being who I am, and who I now represent, I couldn't imagine anything but abusive replies.
But I'm glad someone got this out in the open.
.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.10.25 21:27:00 -
[58]
Quote:
The reason we are gone is because the game cannot support players of our calibre and we got bored of loosing our hard earned advantages as the rest of the people in this game caught up with us.
Let me just translate this statement.
As soon as CCP leveled the playing field and took away our advantages, we had to quit, because it just wasn't fun for us to fight people who would actually have a chance at fighting back.
Everything you said reinforces Jade's theory, that you, your corp and others like you were too stupid to realize that you were responsible for nerfing yourselves. The reason you are gone is because players of your caliber couldn't adapt after you geniuses couldn't wait to own some noobs.
Good Riddance
Adapt or Die
I completely agree.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.10.25 21:29:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Quote:
Hmm interesting.
This shows the phycology of the Pirate.
...
More importantly, your posting speaks volumes about your psychological makeup.
Namely, you can't resist a chance to spout about the failings of others.
I've known Stavros for a fair bit now ingame. From when he was Stavr0s. Many of those that did know him trully wish he'd drop the act, just for a minute, and let people know what was really going on at some point.
He wasn't just one of the most bloodthirsty, merciless pirates in the game. He was also among the richest. And his near universal dislike almost guarantees that he achieved that without exploiting. As I'm fairly certain specific people from above crawled through his account regularly for an excuse to get rid of him.
Pro-piracy cons-piracy theorist, Jash?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.10.25 21:44:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Group of pirates in position on warp path (between gate a and b) and one engages device.
Hauler drops out of warp and is engaged.
A good idea - but only in theory. Won't work in game. The hauler just has to take a look at the killmap (or the local) and take a little reroute in an endangered system, warping to some planet/moon a little away from the gate and then to the gate.
free speech not allowed here |
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