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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
39357
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 15:52:04 -
[31] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Serene Repose wrote:40 miners out of 22,000+ people online at the moment? Someone give me a percentage on that.  0.2% Alright, math buffs, calculate: If the chance to get ganked during 23 hours of mining is 0.2%, how many hours do you need to mine for the chance of a gank to approach 100% ? 0.2% The result is not dependent on the outcome of the previous roll so chance stays the same. But if you have a 0.2% chance to be ganked the first 23 hours and 0.2% chance for 2nd 23 hours, it's clearly greater than 0.2% chance to be ganked in the 46 hours |

Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 16:09:01 -
[32] - Quote
Dunno.... think I'll call troll here. Type in Retriever in zKillboard and you get several pages of highsec miner kills for just one day. Add Covetors, Hulks, Mackinaws, the odd yield Skiff or Procurer... I'd say miner ganking is alive and well. Though of course your mileage may vary, if you're lucky.
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Cancel Align NOW
Greater Order Of Destruction Mercenary Coalition
424
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Posted - 2015.02.09 16:09:02 -
[33] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Serene Repose wrote:40 miners out of 22,000+ people online at the moment? Someone give me a percentage on that.  0.2% Alright, math buffs, calculate: If the chance to get ganked during 23 hours of mining is 0.2%, how many hours do you need to mine for the chance of a gank to approach 100% ? 0.2% The result is not dependent on the outcome of the previous roll so chance stays the same. But if you have a 0.2% chance to be ganked the first 23 hours and 0.2% chance for 2nd 23 hours, it's clearly greater than 0.2% chance to be ganked in the 46 hours
No because you can refit a ship and be back out in the belt in less than 15 minutes. |

Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 16:13:49 -
[34] - Quote
first of all, the chance was never 0.2, this is out of total people online. We would need the average of people mining in highsec.
If we assume this to be.. 1/10th? of all people online, chances climb to 2%. Even thats not correct, since its vague, (2% per what?) Mining is an ongoing process in time, and therefore a Poisson distribution needs to be used to determine proper chance of being ganked (per day/hour/minute) while mining in highsec.
And yes, the Poisson dist. does have the "amnesia" property, meaning that, for example, not being ganked for the past year, or just having been ganked does not alter the chance to be ganked again in any way.
There's no place like space
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Valkin Mordirc
622
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 16:21:07 -
[35] - Quote
Thorn en Distel wrote:Dunno.... think I'll call troll here. Type in Retriever in zKillboard and you get several pages of highsec miner kills for just one day. Add Covetors, Hulks, Mackinaws, the odd yield Skiff or Procurer... I'd say miner ganking is alive and well. Though of course your mileage may vary, if you're lucky.
Welcome to GD you'll see Nevil posting these crack filled mania inspired threads from time to time.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Nevil Oscillator
170
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Posted - 2015.02.09 16:35:55 -
[36] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:edit: to clarify on amnesia : If the Poisson distribution of chance says for example, that you have a 5% chance to be ganked each hour, its just that. Spending additional hours does not add to the chance. Another example is human lifespan, if each person has for eg. a 1% chance to die at any given time, someone who is already 110 years old still has the same chance (1%) to die at any given time. It might seem logical for an old person to have increased chance, but its incorrect. Math is fun, eh? 
The maths is fine so long as you don't ignore relevant factors such as the chances of someone dying does change with age.
0.2% is an incorrect chance for a miner making it out of a high sec belt with a full cargo but I believe I was asked to make that calculation to give some direction as to where about that figure might be.. probably accurate within a decimal place or two. |

Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 16:40:32 -
[37] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Thorn en Distel wrote:Dunno.... think I'll call troll here. Type in Retriever in zKillboard and you get several pages of highsec miner kills for just one day. Add Covetors, Hulks, Mackinaws, the odd yield Skiff or Procurer... I'd say miner ganking is alive and well. Though of course your mileage may vary, if you're lucky.
Welcome to GD you'll see Nevil posting these crack filled mania inspired threads from time to time.
Welcome to the undercurrent of bleeting as the little billy goat cries troll |

Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 16:50:27 -
[38] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Thorn en Distel wrote:Dunno.... think I'll call troll here. Type in Retriever in zKillboard and you get several pages of highsec miner kills for just one day. Add Covetors, Hulks, Mackinaws, the odd yield Skiff or Procurer... I'd say miner ganking is alive and well. Though of course your mileage may vary, if you're lucky.
Welcome to GD you'll see Nevil posting these crack filled mania inspired threads from time to time.
I'm thinking there's more than one troll in this thread though. There's also the ones going 'sob sob highsec ganking is dead sob sob'...  |

Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 16:55:41 -
[39] - Quote
Thorn en Distel wrote:I'm thinking there's more than one troll in this thread though. There's also the ones going 'sob sob highsec ganking is dead sob sob'... 
Yeah so am I, so if you're not posting about mining and pirates go post about trolls somewhere else |

Sinigr Shadowsong
Monkey Attack Squad Goonswarm Federation
130
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 17:00:17 -
[40] - Quote
Miners, listen to OP. Don't tank your ships, buy the best yield modules available. And put your favorite mining systems into your Bio, just in case. |

Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 17:07:20 -
[41] - Quote
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:Miners, listen to OP. Don't tank your ships, buy the best yield modules available. And put your favorite mining systems into your Bio, just in case.
lol that's good enough |

Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
552
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 17:17:39 -
[42] - Quote
I dont think theres such a thing as a high-sec pirate. Gankers and wardeccers are all I hear about when h-sec is involved.
Maybe you could argue that extorting 10 mill from a player for a "mining-permit" is piracy, but it just doesn't feel the same.
To get back on topic; there are those that gank miningbarges. If you want the chance of that happening successfully to decrease you either bribe known groups (permits) and hope you bribed the right ones or tank your barge. Or both.
I should probably end with a obligatory get out of high-sec remark, but I don't care enough about players I will most likely never meet. |

Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 17:35:26 -
[43] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
The maths is fine so long as you don't ignore relevant factors such as the chances of someone dying does change with age.
just because you say so? because chance distribution theory says different. Are you ready to disprove it with solid mathematical proof??
If not, please refrain from saying things just because "they make sense to you" when someone has already pointed out that its wrong, it promotes mathematical illiteracy.
thanks.
There's no place like space
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Paranoid Loyd
3807
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 17:39:43 -
[44] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:
The maths is fine so long as you don't ignore relevant factors such as the chances of someone dying does change with age.
just because you say so? because chance distribution theory says different. Are you ready to disprove it with solid mathematical proof?? If not, please refrain from saying things just because "they make sense to you" when someone has already pointed out that its wrong, it promotes mathematical illiteracy. thanks. Hook, line and sinker.
Don't feed the troll folks.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
482
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 18:18:32 -
[45] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:first of all, the chance was never 0.2, this is out of total people online. We would need the average of people mining in highsec. If we assume this to be.. 1/10th? of all people online, chances climb to 2%. Even thats not correct, since its vague, (2% per what?) Mining is an ongoing process in time, and therefore a Poisson distribution needs to be used to determine proper chance of being ganked (per day/hour/minute) while mining in highsec. And yes, the Poisson dist. does have the "amnesia" property, meaning that, for example, not being ganked for the past year, or just having been ganked does not alter the chance to be ganked again in any way. edit: to clarify on amnesia : If the Poisson distribution of chance says for example, that you have a 5% chance to be ganked each hour, its just that. Spending additional hours does not add to the chance. Another example is human lifespan, if each person has for eg. a 1% chance to die at any given time, someone who is already 110 years old still has the same chance (1%) to die at any given time. It might seem logical for an old person to have increased chance, but its incorrect. Math is fun, eh?  No. We would not require the total people mining. It's "ganking" period. Cherry picking not required.
Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
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Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 18:36:56 -
[46] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:
just because you say so? because chance distribution theory says different. Are you ready to disprove it with solid mathematical proof??
If not, please refrain from saying things just because "they make sense to you" when someone has already pointed out that its wrong, it promotes mathematical illiteracy.
thanks.
The frailness of the elderly is not my say so |

Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 18:46:13 -
[47] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote: The frailness of the elderly is not my say so
The frailess of the elderly is not a mathematic variable. If you make it one, how is it compared to the frailness of infants or middle aged people?
the sentence "Old people have more chances to die" only seems logical to you because you havent thought it through.
If you try your best and see cannot see how wrong it is, perhaps logic is not your strong point, you are an intuitive type who is better suited for literature or poetry. i dunno.
There's no place like space
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Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 18:51:10 -
[48] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote: The frailness of the elderly is not my say so
The frailess of the elderly is not a mathematic variable. If you make it one, how is it compared to the frailness of infants or middle aged people? the sentence "Old people have more chances to die" only seems logical to you because you havent thought it through. If you try your best and see cannot see how wrong it is, perhaps logic is not your strong point, you are an intuitive type who is better suited for literature or poetry. i dunno.
It can be statistically quantified, as can the fatality level of all age groups but statistically everyone who is 100 now will be dead in 50 years time. Not so for younger people. |

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
263
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 19:18:13 -
[49] - Quote
The threat of gankers possibly coming for me was the only thing that kept mining somewhat interesting.
Miiners should really be thanking gankers. |

Hippinse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 19:18:27 -
[50] - Quote
For the purposes of selling permits, recruiting, etc., gankers will tell everyone that they're lurking behind every asteroid and it's just a short matter of time until they join the tally of destroyed ships.
For the purposes of advocating for adjustments to the game (ore distribution in nullsec, nerfs/buffs to gankers, nerfs/buffs to mining barges, etc) gankers will happily tell the world that getting ganked is the unlikeliest thing that could ever happen to someone.
The message depends on what is being sold. (Speaking of which, what are you selling, OP?)
My anecdotal observations: I mine exclusively in missions because while I was never ganked, I grew tired of people "innocently" warping to my belt and testing my reactions. It's not that what they're doing isn't valid gameplay, but the feigned innocence/ignorance just grew to be insulting. I didn't mind them confirming I wasn't a bot. I minded when they knew that I wasn't a bot and they couldn't come clean or at least come up with a non-insulting lie. (I know exactly why they're slowboating towards me in their venture/destroyer/etc when I'm 40km off the warp-in behind one end of the belt.)
These days I still have people scan me down and warp to me, but they're mostly mission flippers. |

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8814
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 20:11:55 -
[51] - Quote
good hustle nevil, you owe Abrazzar though as hes provided the content here. you need to give a little to keep them going dude, its not enough to just ask a question and the sit being deliberately obtuse for four or five pages.
4/10
you get points for moving out of the new bro section.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|

Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 21:06:42 -
[52] - Quote
Dalloway Jones wrote:The threat of gankers possibly coming for me was the only thing that kept mining somewhat interesting.
Miiners should really be thanking gankers.
I understand this sentiment but mining while at war beats it hands down because there are people out there with a reason to attack you and concord will not do anything about it.
It beats the everyone is the enemy mentality of gank paranoia because you have a real enemy.
I go straight to a belt and start chatting with the other miners, yeah they could look up my corp history and see who I am at war with and tell them where I am but so what ?
Bring it on |

Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
912
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 21:18:19 -
[53] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:you get points for moving out ofbeing removed from the new bro section. FTFY. One can dream.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Nevil Oscillator
170
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 21:47:23 -
[54] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:you get points for moving out ofbeing removed from the new bro section. FTFY. One can dream.
Questions in Questions
Discussions in Discussions
New Game Ideas in Discussions until you know what it is you think should be done |

ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
367
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 22:20:19 -
[55] - Quote
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. OP is derailing his own thread. This will get a lock.
ISD Decoy
Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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