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Teebee	Posted - 2006.10.03 11:05:00 - [1] Edited by: Teebee on 03/10/2006 11:12:20 Edited by: Teebee on 03/10/2006 11:09:26 Edited by: Teebee on 03/10/2006 11:09:00 Edited by: Teebee on 03/10/2006 11:05:14 Hi , at first I didnt want to do this but i think they need to recognize for the lack of honor they had for their own new member and after finaly speaking with someone that messaged me - after i had to make 1 rude remark in alliance chat which was 2 days after i sent the alliance leader count, a mail saying what happend and in that mail i didnt even ask for any riembursment. Day 1 - The recruiter tells me to put in a aplication and say its for him so i did that and then I decided to go into ISS space. While i was in there I got attacked by a ISS member because i was talking to someone in local that had been anoying them all day but i didnt attack back until after i posted that im joining ISSN in local , I killed his destroyer in a cruiser , but thats my first ..... grrr almost first day in ISS. I tried taking a cruiser to borealis and got poped cuz i didnt have the instas through placid which was patialy my fault IMO but the next day i ran into a member that was moving also and he used placid instas and i used pure blind instas so it worked out perfectly. Next day or 2 I bought a BS so i can start fighting other BS's for ISS all of it without a discount because i didnt want to wait for the requirements to buy one from the corp, but they didnt see my willingness as anything. Next I decided to move all my stuf in a hauler to borialis and asked in corp chat for help but one of the comanders Mynas told me ( ask some freinds) .......ask some friends ?? I just joined ISS and he told me to ask some friends.....heh I think this was after he found out i wasnt a capital ship pilot. I even asked in alliance chat and got no response at all from anyone , my hopes for a golrious future fighting for the good guys were starting to look hazy. I decided to take my main because I had most of the instas I didnt wanna take a alt with no istas and get smoked and i wanted to get there asap so i made the move with like 99% of my stuf full cargo hold with 3 cargo expanders and like 5 cans filled with regular mods , named mods , TII mods - drones, and i headed up there but on the way up i ran into the same guy that kileld me last time which makes me think there is a spy in the corp so anyways he killed me all my stuf gone......ok I felt stupid and though man i dont wanna put this corp mail but 5 minutes later Mynas one of the comanders already had seen it and called me an idiot and other sarcastic things.I was thinking WTF i lose all my stuf and hes being a ****? Ok what if i pod him before i leave the corp but i got more character then that you see, but insted i message Count and told him what my experiance was and he sent a reply saying he will look into it which was cool and i didnt ask for riembursment. I waited a while but no one had got back to me after that and no one talking in corp chat about it but after someone in alliance chat said the privateers realy owned us i made a sarcastic remark and finaly someone messaged me but only a leiutenant but still hes higher then me in the corp. and we talked about what happend which i will post as a reply i dont feel like writing it all but basicaly i felt like no one got told off or anything and they didnt realy care so i said send me the riemburment for all the items lost in the loss mail which is impossible to list all the things i lost but maybe 20% of evarything but he said no and then that was it i quit the corp. This was the first time i tried joining something Big and i had alot of respect for ISS before joining. If you see my employment history you will see i joined alot of small corps in hopes of making it big but this time i wanted to join something big and be a part of the corp that protects its members. Now i realise that its nothing i thought it would be and i had more fun in most of the other corps i was in.
Teebee	Posted - 2006.10.03 11:07:00 - [2] Edited by: Teebee on 03/10/2006 11:11:44 I'm not making this post to have evaryone feel bad for me or talk crap but i think an alliance like ISS should have more character then that especialy to new member considering my situation but it seemed more like a organized crime situation. This is the truth about ISSN's leadership.
Le Cardinal ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.03 11:51:00 - [3] Every corporation has responsibility of taking care of their new members. Helping them move their stuff from A-B and settle in. You help your new member with what u can. If ur not willing to stand up for your new members and make them feel welcomed you cant expect anything more from them. A good leadership (commanders) takes care of its members. A neglecting or poor leadership dont. In the end the good leadership remains and the neglecting leadership fails. Im not talking about structure in corps and what rules you have. Take care of your members. It pays out. ECP.R killboard
Naldo Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:27:00 - [4] Big corps/alliances have more important issues to deal with than new members, may sound pretty harsh it is true though. Smaller more compact corps are generally more organised and more friendly. Try looking for one of them to join.
Earthan Gallente GREY COUNCIL	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:28:00 - [5] yea sounds bad feel sorry for you Teebe. I understand can get hard if you are really big, but hey, you should alwys take care of new members. - A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
Le Cardinal ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Naldo Big corps/alliances have more important issues to deal with than new members, may sound pretty harsh it is true though. Smaller more compact corps are generally more organised and more friendly. Try looking for one of them to join. Doesnt matter if its a big or small corp. You take care of your new members no matter what. Every CEO/director should make sure they have a couple of peeps assigned to this task if they are bigger corps. As a leader you make sure that someone has this role assigned. Delegate tasks. ECP.R killboard
Naldo Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Le Cardinal Originally by: Naldo Big corps/alliances have more important issues to deal with than new members, may sound pretty harsh it is true though. Smaller more compact corps are generally more organised and more friendly. Try looking for one of them to join. Doesnt matter if its a big or small corp. You take care of your new members no matter what. Every CEO/director should make sure they have a couple of peeps assigned to this task if they are bigger corps. As a leader you make sure that someone has this role assigned. Delegate tasks. Note the word "generally", I have been in 2 or 3 situations where larger groups have no time for newer people. Maybe they should assign people to deal with new people. End of the day, would have, could have, should have, but didn't. Smaller groups generally (note the word "generally" meaning in my experiences this is normally what happened to me) value each member more and more care is taken to them. Not having a pop at bigger corps or alliances as catering for every members need is hard. Just saying that with a smaller corp there is a better chance of being treated better.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:44:00 - [8] So, you join a PvP corp and expect them to hand hold you moving all your ships and mods? You expect them to drop whatever campaign they are doing, scramble into Empire for you (how many jumps?) just because you lack the competence to sort yourself out on this very basic level. You then lose a hauler DURING AN EMPIRE WAR, whislt hauling with your main character? Despite being told to use a hauling alt? Jesus. Mate, sorry to say this but you're just not cut out for a dedicated 0.0 PvP corp. Now quit the whining and look up a small indy corp or something more suited to your 'talents'.
Caeldfyr Boh Gallente Fusion Core Productions	Posted - 2006.10.03 13:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Butter Dog So, you join a PvP corp and expect them to hand hold you moving all your ships and mods? You expect them to drop whatever campaign they are doing, scramble into Empire for you (how many jumps?) just because you lack the competence to sort yourself out on this very basic level. You then lose a hauler DURING AN EMPIRE WAR, whislt hauling with your main character? Despite being told to use a hauling alt? Jesus. Mate, sorry to say this but you're just not cut out for a dedicated 0.0 PvP corp. Now quit the whining and look up a small indy corp or something more suited to your 'talents'. Couldn't have put it better myself.
Naldo Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:06:00 - [10] To quote from the ISSN recruitment thread Quote: ISSN is unique EVE - a PvP corp with a purpose, and comprehensive support for its members. What was so comprehensive about the support given to this player in getting setup in your area?
insanebe Caldari carebear Corp	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Naldo To quote from the ISSN recruitment thread Quote: ISSN is unique EVE - a PvP corp with a purpose, and comprehensive support for its members. What was so comprehensive about the support given to this player in getting setup in your area? discount ships (i think i never bought one while i was there, takes too long) refunded insurance cost of battleships lost in fleet battles free mods for your ships free access to dock at iss stations there was also a buying of iss shares or summat they may have changed a few things since i was there shouldn't be hauling in empire with your main, its not like iss has a shortage of wardec's lol should use a scout alt to see whats in front of the next gate and should have instas, yes might take a while to get them and yes its boring but they are VITAL :p if they didn't give you this advice maybe there is a point about not looking after the inexperienced, but if they did tell you and you ignored them then what do you expect lol and also in 0.0 space no one can here you scream, you lose ships there its the nature of the beast knowledge is power.... guard it well
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:37:00 - [12] Edited by: Algey on 03/10/2006 14:44:25 Originally by: Naldo To quote from the ISSN recruitment thread Quote: ISSN is unique EVE - a PvP corp with a purpose, and comprehensive support for its members. What was so comprehensive about the support given to this player in getting setup in your area? Considering quite how hostile you guys are to ISS(N), being our local EC pirates, I doubt that we will be answering this question to you in the near future. I do find it interesting how quickly you have jumped into this discussion to defend our poor downtrodden insta/scout hating hauler pilot There is a reason that we ask people to come to one of our 0.0 stations to apply for membership. Usually it weeds out those who would fill a hauler with goodies and slowboat it around hostile space. ISSN Recruitment Slave
Dr Slaughter ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Teebee .. snip .. and finaly someone messaged me but only a leiutenant but still hes higher then me in the corp. and we talked about what happend .. snip .. No idea if you're talking about your convo to me, or the evemail I sent you but.. I have a couple of suggestions for anyone thinking of joining ISSN... 1. On day one.. don't haul lots of stuff into 0.0 (you won't need it right away) or fly out to us in your best ship. It can make for a bad start. You can bring your BS or hauler full of goodies as part of a patrol or freigher escort at a later date. The Corp's going to provide pretty much everything else you need. 2. To make it to lieutenant you need to get 5 kills. Just so it's clear, starting by killing your own corp mates doesn't count. 3. Getting in a huff with the management is fine. Just do it privately. We all know people can have a bad day, things can go wrong, mistakes can happen but posting complaints in alliance chat, corp chat, and on eve-o, sure isn't going to get any respect. Originally by: TeeBee Now i realise that its nothing i thought it would be and i had more fun in most of the other corps i was in. Personally ISSN has been the best thing I've done in the game but perhaps our expectations are totally different....
Teebee	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:43:00 - [14] Yeah i joined cuz of pvp , cheaper ships , and feeling like im not solo anymore especialy in 0.0. I dont understand why i didnt get any help because the fleet move they call it was in affect while i was there from fabrica to borealis.
Chi Prime ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:46:00 - [15] Edited by: Chi Prime on 03/10/2006 14:46:52 Isn't this thread in the wrong section? From the description: "This is the corporation and alliance version of the Intergalactic Summit. All interaction on this forum is in-character and between corporations or alliances, not individual characters." Also see the section rules: Linkage
Thor Payne ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:48:00 - [16] Originally by: Butter Dog So, you join a PvP corp and expect them to hand hold you moving all your ships and mods? You expect them to drop whatever campaign they are doing, scramble into Empire for you (how many jumps?) just because you lack the competence to sort yourself out on this very basic level. You then lose a hauler DURING AN EMPIRE WAR, whislt hauling with your main character? Despite being told to use a hauling alt? Jesus. Mate, sorry to say this but you're just not cut out for a dedicated 0.0 PvP corp. Now quit the whining and look up a small indy corp or something more suited to your 'talents'. I agree with the above statement from butter dog. You are the only one responsible for losing your items. Not ISS or ISSN.
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:48:00 - [17] Yeah. I fully endorse this post. On my first day in ISS(N) they made ME come to 0.0 to sign up and someone SHOT at me on the way in!!! Then I had to sit at a station in my brand new shiny Scorpion ALL NIGHT recharging a shield because some guys had given it to ISS and they didn't even PAY me for it and I even had to go buy the skillbooks to use the shield transfer thingies myself. It took SSOOOO LONNNNNG I had to get my family corp to bring three of thier BCs to help. THEN we chased some pirates off a gate and it all went horribly wrong and I lost my brand new shiny Scorpion. And then they said it was my fault, because the gang leader said to pull out and I panicked and jammed someone but couldn't jump and then got stuck on a gate and it was just awfullllll!!! I blame that guy Butter Dog. Its all his fault!!! Mynas Atoch, XO, ISSN
Thor Payne ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 14:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Teebee Yeah i joined cuz of pvp , cheaper ships , and feeling like im not solo anymore especialy in 0.0. I dont understand why i didnt get any help because the fleet move they call it was in affect while i was there from fabrica to borealis. It might have been in effect after you joined but obviously you did not join any of the ops...why not?
Naldo Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.03 15:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Algey Originally by: Naldo To quote from the ISSN recruitment thread Quote: ISSN is unique EVE - a PvP corp with a purpose, and comprehensive support for its members. What was so comprehensive about the support given to this player in getting setup in your area? Considering quite how hostile you guys are to ISS(N), being our local EC pirates, I doubt that we will be answering this question to you in the near future. I do find it interesting how quickly you have jumped into this thread though There is a reason that we ask people to come to one of our 0.0 stations to apply for membership. Me being hostile has no bearing on why I posted. I am a bigger person that that. I actually posted in here as I have been affected in similar circumstances, never resulted in any loss of any significant size though. It is difficult to cater to all members needs and help them. He needed the support from his new found friends and was found wanting. He is probably very annoyed. It is understandable, former members like Butter coming in and contradicting your own thoughts doesn't help matters as unless I am mistaken he was one of the higher ranked members? So yes don't see what I say as a direct attack because we fight each other regulary. Some people actually see EVE as just a game, I am one of them. Vendetta's are for the foolish.
DANGEROUS Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.03 15:18:00 - [20] Points of interest 1) - - CLEARLY ISS are of the opinion that the 0.0 community 'owe' them something - (like free travel around 0.0) - - LAUGHABLE 2) - to become a LIEUTENANT in ISS u need FIVE - - yes FIVE - kills - - -ROFL _ ROFL ROFL _ - - umm what rank would i get with over 600 kill mails (received) - ??? Supreme commander???? ROFL - - hang on - let me get back on my chair - ROFL - fell off chair again!!!!
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 15:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Naldo So yes don't see what I say as a direct attack because we fight each other regulary. Some people actually see EVE as just a game, I am one of them. Vendetta's are for the foolish. /qft We don't hand hold people who have just come in the door. We expect them to arrive at their first duty station unassisted - with BM's or without. Its a basic skills cutoff we feel works for us to supplement our rigourous interview during the recruitment process. We supply them with free frigates, mods and cruisers till they get the hang of it and feel comfortable. We expect them to be able to traverse 0.0 solo, and if they arrive solely in their pod, that will do for day one. They often lose their first BS early unless they come with the prerequisite skills. We assist them in buying their first fleet BS when they have been in for a short time AND ACTIVE in gangs and ops. More and more of our recuits laugh at this offer and arrive in T2 ships or even their carriers and dreads. We repeat AD NAUSEUM - do not use an ISS toon to move haulers unescorted in Empire during Empire Wars. We can even give them a quick skillplan to generate one if they need it. We were indeed rather unimpressed at Teebee losing a hauler with that quantity of mods in Empire during an Empire War and told him so. And then explained how he could have avoided it in future. It turns out he was too sensitive to cope with my explanation. His departure saved us the time and distress of a meeting to discuss his progress and the almost inevitable expulsion after his 'trial period'. We .. _I_ stress to everyone who joins us to take it slowly, to get to know us, to work out on their own if ISSN is the place for them before moving large quantities of ships and mods around - while simultaneously lambasting anyone who doesn't have the tools they need where they are needed when they are needed. Teebee and ISSN didn't work. That's not a problem for either of us .. its an opportunity for Teebee to find a corp where he can find a pace that suits him and an enjoy the game on HIS terms. In that I wish him well. And I hereby acknowledge that I was wrong in ignoring others initial reservations about him. Mea Culpa. Myn
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 15:23:00 - [22] Originally by: DANGEROUS Points of interest 1) - - CLEARLY ISS are of the opinion that the 0.0 community 'owe' them something - (like free travel around 0.0) - - LAUGHABLE /me searches and searches but just doesn't see this with a clarity that would be DANGEROUS Originally by: DANGEROUS 2) - to become a LIEUTENANT in ISS u need FIVE - - yes FIVE - kills - - -ROFL _ ROFL ROFL _ - - umm what rank would i get with over 600 kill mails (received) - ??? Supreme commander???? ROFL - - hang on - let me get back on my chair - ROFL - fell off chair again!!!! Quick .. put a cushion on the floor before you fall again, because its not five kill mails .. its PARTICIPATION in five killmails!!! Mate, Lt just means you are a member and are allowed to use the T1 mods. No more, no less. Setting other arbitrary rules for access? Well, tell us how it works in your corp so we can see what we are doing wrong and can share the joke. Myn
Naldo Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.03 15:34:00 - [23] Mynas, thats fair enough. You have explained yourselves and whether people agree with your morals etc is another thing. At least you shed some clarity on the matter and that can only serve as a good thing for both yourselves and future members who may expect too much off ISS from the off. As for the D2 guy giving the superiority speech, guess its easy to be ubber with the other million alliances you fight with.
Dr Slaughter ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 16:23:00 - [24] Originally by: DANGEROUS 1) - - CLEARLY ISS are of the opinion that the 0.0 community 'owe' them something - (like free travel around 0.0) - - LAUGHABLE 2) - to become a LIEUTENANT in ISS u need FIVE - - yes FIVE - kills - - -ROFL _ ROFL ROFL _ - - umm what rank would i get with over 600 kill mails (received) - ??? Supreme commander???? ROFL - - hang on - let me get back on my chair - ROFL - fell off chair again!!!! Points of interest... lol. Hardly. I was talking about ISSN not ISS. Laughing about what you didn't know about was pretty dumb. With such an incisive whit and imagination I'm sure you might make ensign and although you obviously don't feel you 'owe' us anything, somehow I'm sure you won't be able to resist posting more drivel to entertain us with.
Sgt Napalm ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 16:37:00 - [25] Not everybody is cut out to be in the Navy. I lost two ships my first day in ISSN just trying to meet up with the fleet. I limped my pod to EC- and received a free frigate. I later found out that this is the first test of a new ISSN pilot. To sum it up, if you cannot get yourself to the fleet you fail at EvE. Sarge out
DANGEROUS Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.03 16:48:00 - [26] Edited by: DANGEROUS on 03/10/2006 16:49:28 hells bells - there is even lag on the dam forums now!!!!!! dual post 4tl!!!!
DANGEROUS Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.03 16:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: DANGEROUS 1) - - CLEARLY ISS are of the opinion that the 0.0 community 'owe' them something - (like free travel around 0.0) - - LAUGHABLE 2) - to become a LIEUTENANT in ISS u need FIVE - - yes FIVE - kills - - -ROFL _ ROFL ROFL _ - - umm what rank would i get with over 600 kill mails (received) - ??? Supreme commander???? ROFL - - hang on - let me get back on my chair - ROFL - fell off chair again!!!! Points of interest... lol. Hardly. I was talking about ISSN not ISS. Laughing about what you didn't know about was pretty dumb. With such an incisive whit and imagination I'm sure you might make ensign and although you obviously don't feel you 'owe' us anything, somehow I'm sure you won't be able to resist posting more drivel to entertain us with. The humour i can assure you is 2 sided )))) i rarely dont speak my mind - although i should add i clearly only comment on my thoughts which are not reflected by my corp or alliance. I have to apologise, i see that it takes parcipation in 5 kills to get a rank in the NAVY wing of ISS. (issn). so to go up the ranks in ISS do you have to be able to kill a certain number of roids in a certain time??? Please take my commetns with a pinch of humour, Most of the time i like to 'use' the forums for humour rather than 'smack'. Its simply that i dont agree with the principal of what ISS stand for that i ridicule, that is all. As far as i am concerned 0.0 is NOT a place where anyone is really able to shelter. 0.0 is NOT empire and it should never be treated as such else imo 0.0 would change into smething lamer than it already has become.
Dr Slaughter ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 17:00:00 - [28] Originally by: DANGEROUS Please take my commetns with a pinch of humour, Most of the time i like to 'use' the forums for humour rather than 'smack'. I will admit to being a little short on humour today.. someone mentioned the word 'mining'
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 17:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Naldo Some people actually see EVE as just a game, I am one of them. Vendetta's are for the foolish. This is the in character forum, and I'm one of the geeky roleplayers. Sorry Mods please clean this post out as you do the thread. It serves no purpose in this forum. ISSN Recruitment Slave
Supay Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 17:12:00 - [30] Originally by: DANGEROUS Its simply that i dont agree with the principal of what ISS stand for that i ridicule, that is all. As far as i am concerned 0.0 is NOT a place where anyone is really able to shelter. 0.0 is NOT empire and it should never be treated as such else imo 0.0 would change into smething lamer than it already has become. Surely then, you have missed the whole basis of 0.0 and EVE in general. It's player controlled and player driven and anyone can do whatever they want with it. If people do something and it works, no matter how much you think it shouldn't, it IS the game.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.03 17:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Butter Dog So, you join a PvP corp and expect them to hand hold you moving all your ships and mods? You expect them to drop whatever campaign they are doing, scramble into Empire for you (how many jumps?) just because you lack the competence to sort yourself out on this very basic level. You then lose a hauler DURING AN EMPIRE WAR, whislt hauling with your main character? Despite being told to use a hauling alt? Jesus. Mate, sorry to say this but you're just not cut out for a dedicated 0.0 PvP corp. Now quit the whining and look up a small indy corp or something more suited to your 'talents'. What an ignorant response. Op, it wouldnt surprise you to know butterdogwas in iss. It can be really hard when you first move out into 0.0 or join your first alliance, ive been lucky in that my corp and alliance mates are extremely helpful and will go out of there way to help each other, even newer member's. Yiou had a bad start, chalk it up as a bad experience and learn from it. Not all alliances and corps treat there members like that. All the best in finding your place in eve Iron and G eat babie's, my views are my own and do not reflect my corp or my alliance
Kristoffer Amarr Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.03 18:13:00 - [32] ISS merely practice corporate imperialism. If you deny them travel through your space, they'll force their way in because its 'their right'. ISSN is merely their tool of oppression.
EchoTheDolphin	Posted - 2006.10.03 18:20:00 - [33] Uh, the first thing you need to learn about ANY 0.0 based corp is that you don't haul all your crap and ships out there. It's much better to move your clone to station, sell your junk, then suicide and buy shiny new ones there. Secondly, you are a recruit in that corp, you are not entitled to armed escort, special privileges, etc. After all, they're called corporations for a reason, as in real life, you were brought on because you were expected to be able to do your job and do it well. Not to be a drain on the corporation from day 1. Hell, I've been in my corp for about 3 weeks and I still haven't asked for help yet because it isn't right. I've only had a chance to assist on a few escort and patrol missions. I'll expect services in return when I've done a bit more.
Bach Caldari Tyrell Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.03 19:01:00 - [34] An interesting thread with good points on both sides. There is no more important skill in Eve then knowing how ships move through various areas. You can't buy a skill book for it and you can't train it while your not playing. Its a real life skill that you have to learn somewhere along the line. You could say it was ISSN's responsibility to move his ship for him so he didn't have to have these skills at that time. Till they trained him in it. You could say that if the pilot was looking to PVP in 0.0 he should already have this vital skill in practice. In my experience the skill itself is proportional to the value of the items/ships to be moved. What I mean by this, is that a low value cargo (starter gear and maybe a single T1 ship) is a good place to start learning this skill much as Butterdog and some other ISS suggest by letting the new pilot figure it out on his own. Recently Semp (our CEO) wanted to move 60+ Billion isk worth of T2 BPO's through x2 very well known pirate gate camps. Semp is a very experienced 0.0 pilot but at this value he still called me to move the cargo for him. Its a variable skill for all of us no matter how long you played Eve. It MUST be learned by each player and constantly practiced. The ISS gave him the necessary clues and the cargo value was low. I don't think they did anything wrong here. Now training 0.0 PVP pilots is a bussiness all about risks and who has the balls to take those risks. The pilot in question was willing to take the risk. He may have failed on this first trial but he had the balls to give it a go and that says alot. Now expecting reimbursment for a risk level you chose to start at and airing alliance dirty laundry in public. Thats another issue entirely. Not a good thing.
Amp Run	Posted - 2006.10.03 19:26:00 - [35] To OP Not that I do not sympathize since I have to haul my toon thru Pure Blind to get home in 0.0 so my advice if you want to live in 0.0 û get a trial account and scout ahead. Alliances will POD any toon they see in a nOOb corp but it will save you millions if not billions. Hell, it took me a whole day to get to Alliance space û scout ahead, bring main, scout then either gets podded or hunted : ) and I log off main, wait couple of hoursàrinse repeat û totally worth it, not boring cause you adrenaline is pumping the whole time. Living in 0.0, hate to say it, you do need to prove to you corp you know how to live out there and be self-sufficient (making ISK, surviving, defending alliance space). Oh and use scout when the æpipeÆ is relatively clear (early morning Eve time) and make BMÆs Ok, this post is way off topic but just trying to be helpful.
Hakk Allardson Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.03 20:44:00 - [36] I'm the Lt. the OP talked to before he left. Obviously he was so clueless he didn't even realize he was speaking with a Director even though I told him as such. I had spoken to him several times before and thought I would speak to him one last time before he quit the corp to actually see if there was anything we could do to make him stay. What a waste of time that was... Right from the start Teebee had nothing but derision and sarcasm for the corp. There was absolutly no need to move all his gear as quickly as he was trying to do. Had he just a little patience and waiting untill a better time I'm sure someone would have helped him move his gear. But no he had to move it right now, now, now, now! Spoiled brat of a player. Good luck to you. Shame on us for letting a corp hopper such as yourself into the ISSN in the first place.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.03 20:50:00 - [37] Originally by: Mynas Atoch Yeah. I fully endorse this post. On my first day in ISS(N) they made ME come to 0.0 to sign up and someone SHOT at me on the way in!!! Then I had to sit at a station in my brand new shiny Scorpion ALL NIGHT recharging a shield because some guys had given it to ISS and they didn't even PAY me for it and I even had to go buy the skillbooks to use the shield transfer thingies myself. It took SSOOOO LONNNNNG I had to get my family corp to bring three of thier BCs to help. THEN we chased some pirates off a gate and it all went horribly wrong and I lost my brand new shiny Scorpion. And then they said it was my fault, because the gang leader said to pull out and I panicked and jammed someone but couldn't jump and then got stuck on a gate and it was just awfullllll!!! I blame that guy Butter Dog. Its all his fault!!! Mynas Atoch, XO, ISSN Oh God, happy memories! Seriously, ISSN is a great corp. Anyone who says otherwise is a tard. And thats a fact
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.03 20:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Kristoffer ISS merely practice corporate imperialism. If you deny them travel through your space, they'll force their way in because its 'their right'. ISSN is merely their tool of oppression. Someone hasnt changed
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.03 21:00:00 - [39] Originally by: DANGEROUS 2) - to become a LIEUTENANT in ISS u need FIVE - - yes FIVE - kills - - -ROFL _ ROFL ROFL _ - - umm what rank would i get with over 600 kill mails (received) - ??? Well, Lt. is a very low rank in ISSN, it just gets people basic hangar rights to some low-end mods and a few side benefits. Its 'activated' after 5 kills just so they can weed out inactive players. You would be surpised how many people don't even manage that though, and end up being chucked out for inactivity. So as a system, at its most basic level it works and does as intended. Also you might want to consider that ISSN operate a very strict NRDS engagement policy, so getting the killmails isnt always as easy as operating NBSI, where one gatecamp can net you dozens of easy kills. Outside of ISSN, I find getting hundreds of killmails very easy. Its a different story when you are in a PvP corp with a real purpose and direction other than just 'gank'.
Kristoffer Amarr Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.03 21:03:00 - [40] Edited by: Kristoffer on 03/10/2006 21:03:37 Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Kristoffer ISS merely practice corporate imperialism. If you deny them travel through your space, they'll force their way in because its 'their right'. ISSN is merely their tool of oppression. Someone hasnt changed Its said with love. Honestly though, ISSN are a good bunch of guys all in all, atleast, back when I used to engage em :)
TRYPTIC	Posted - 2006.10.03 22:29:00 - [41] Teebee, I'm sorry you get so many of these "know-it-all" types slapping you down in these forums for your innocense/ignorance. They picture themselves as the EVE veteran who has it all together. In reality, they just forget where they came from....noobville, just like you. Explain to the recruiter what happened. If you think he's not giving you a sympathetic ear then maybe it's time to find another corp or alliance who is more seneitive to helping ppl at your skill level. Me looks with disgust at denigrating comments made in this thread.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.03 23:04:00 - [42] Originally by: TRYPTIC Teebee, I'm sorry you get so many of these "know-it-all" types slapping you down in these forums for your innocense/ignorance. They picture themselves as the EVE veteran who has it all together. In reality, they just forget where they came from....noobville, just like you. Explain to the recruiter what happened. If you think he's not giving you a sympathetic ear then maybe it's time to find another corp or alliance who is more seneitive to helping ppl at your skill level. Me looks with disgust at denigrating comments made in this thread. Actually, he is getting advice from people who have been there and done it, including people from his own corp who I imagine know a little more about it than you do. He was given the right advice, he just chose not to follow it. Then when it all went predictably wrong, he comes on a public discussion forum and flames them with the so called 'truth of ISSN'. Of course, in reality the only truth to come out of this is his own incompentence and self-importance in expecting everyone else to do very simple things for him, and not following well intended advice.
General Meridus ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 02:44:00 - [43] I myself lost a well fitted battleship on my first trip to the duty station. I was unhappy about it. I frankly felt the corp should have done more to protect my sorry butt. On hindsite, the comments and direction I receieved were correct. The ship loss was easily avoidable, if I had followed the basic direction I'd been given. Frankly its a damn fast way to learn. The facts are: I am given Tech II, and named fittings to my ships. In fleet engagements, my battleships are reimbursed quickly and without complaint. This corp is very well funded. It is not kill board obsessed. It is interested in finishing the task at hand. We fight for long term goals, and are not all bent out of shape when we get dusted. I am an older player. I find the lack of ego, and solid smack free leadership refreshing. It is a perfect fit for me, and many others. I'm sure the OP will find a group that fits his personality.
Plasmatique Caldari Black Lance	Posted - 2006.10.04 03:06:00 - [44] Op was a little over-anxious on his big move, lesson learned (hopefully). ISSN could take care of their new members a little better and new members to ANY corp should exercise a little patience when getting acclimated to their new digs. A little impatience and poor timing goes a long way to contibuting to a bad situation. I've been in a few corps during my eve career and no corp has perfected the welcome wagon in my experience. ................................... Proud owner of a nerfed sig :(
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.04 03:20:00 - [45] In the engagements we have had with ISSN, they have shown more willingness to fight than most and there has been no smack afterwards. That is commendable. I will add a few notes here. When I first read the OP's original posting, I didn't have high thoughts about ISSN's behaviour, but seeing later postings, my original thoughts have changed. ISSN operate in 0.0, and to have even a remote chance of surviving, you need a certain amount of experience and maybe... intelligence? Sounds like a good plan to sort our the weed. For what it's worth, our recruitment policy is more simple, really. We don't recruit. In some cases we do, and if you're not a well-established PVP'er, you won't get in. If you are, you will need to fly with us for a while so we can assess your ability to function in a tight-nit team and how independant you are. The last rule can be loosened up if an established player can vouch for the ability and character of the person, but generally we stick to it. No interview process alone will be able to establish if you're a team player or not. We never abandon a corp mate in trouble, we rather shout "LEROOOOY!" and go for it than leaving someone behind. That's team work, and the OP is clearly not a team player. Maybe it would be an idea for ISSN to have some sort of similar policy, although I realize we are a completely different corporation than ISSN. In the long run, it will improve ISSN's ability as PVPers to solve their task, and maybe make it more tempting for experienced PVPers to join. If only new players join, the quality will never rise about average. Just my 5 cent, for what it's worth.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 05:15:00 - [46] It's Sink or Swim. You have to make your own connections and means of finding income if you don't have a personal isk printing machine or the prior funds or share in a POS or 12. On reflection, it's probably better to do this before joining any corp or alliance. I should write that down in case I ever need that in the future. If directorat believe that current delegation structure is sufficient, and achieving satisfactory results, then that's their prerogative. All they have to satisfy is ISS mgmt and shareholders (collectively, not individually). Grunts can review their options and determine their own course. It's at-will employment. From working in a steel manufacturing plant once upon a time, I personally believe in firing managers or supervisors who won't delegate. Not my department though. I just try to do my 2 bits to qualify for any future reimbursements and that's where I stand. It's pretty mercenary in that regard. I expect nothing, zero, zip, nada of anyone, and pretty much expectations of me are modest and damn well better be formulaic. ISSN is just a goddamn corporation. It's not a bunch of saints or villians. It's an amoral organism in search of profit, and general openness to pro-trade polity, which is just spiffy by me. ECM
Teebee	Posted - 2006.10.04 05:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Thor Payne Originally by: Teebee Yeah i joined cuz of pvp , cheaper ships , and feeling like im not solo anymore especialy in 0.0. I dont understand why i didnt get any help because the fleet move they call it was in affect while i was there from fabrica to borealis. It might have been in effect after you joined but obviously you did not join any of the ops...why not? Mynas talked about it but it never seemed like any fleet movements it seemed like you guys couldnt organize, evary night it was supose to happen i was left talking to myself in the chat or mynas telling me to ask some friends , and realisticaly I feel realy direspected from all of this , I didnt wanna be called an idiot after i got ganked by ( Mynas ) and most importantly I never asked for any riembursment until after i found out no one was going to tell anyone off about this insident and how i was treated. In you corp bio it should say Noobs beware you are on your own until you get our respect, oh wait your not a capital ship pilot? bye
Teebee	Posted - 2006.10.04 05:46:00 - [48] Edited by: Teebee on 04/10/2006 05:52:03 Originally by: Hakk Allardson I'm the Lt. the OP talked to before he left. Obviously he was so clueless he didn't even realize he was speaking with a Director even though I told him as such. I had spoken to him several times before and thought I would speak to him one last time before he quit the corp to actually see if there was anything we could do to make him stay. What a waste of time that was... Right from the start Teebee had nothing but derision and sarcasm for the corp. There was absolutly no need to move all his gear as quickly as he was trying to do. Had he just a little patience and waiting untill a better time I'm sure someone would have helped him move his gear. But no he had to move it right now, now, now, now! Spoiled brat of a player. Good luck to you. Shame on us for letting a corp hopper such as yourself into the ISSN in the first place. Ok first of all the ONLY time we talked was the last time we talked get that through your head and also mynas asked me once to move my stuf. Im realy disapointed in you guys trying to make this look all my fault all you had to do was care a little and treat me right.
Teebee	Posted - 2006.10.04 05:51:00 - [49] Ok this will be my last post on this topic. I wanna say that I dont want any bad intentions on ISSN or ISS as a whole i dont have anything huge against you guys but I might attack you guys ingame for fun heh I hope evarything gets sorted out for ISSN .
Le Cardinal ECP Rogues Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.04 07:50:00 - [50] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Butter Dog So, you join a PvP corp and expect them to hand hold you moving all your ships and mods? You expect them to drop whatever campaign they are doing, scramble into Empire for you (how many jumps?) just because you lack the competence to sort yourself out on this very basic level. You then lose a hauler DURING AN EMPIRE WAR, whislt hauling with your main character? Despite being told to use a hauling alt? Jesus. Mate, sorry to say this but you're just not cut out for a dedicated 0.0 PvP corp. Now quit the whining and look up a small indy corp or something more suited to your 'talents'. What an ignorant response. Op, it wouldnt surprise you to know butterdogwas in iss. It can be really hard when you first move out into 0.0 or join your first alliance, ive been lucky in that my corp and alliance mates are extremely helpful and will go out of there way to help each other, even newer member's. Yiou had a bad start, chalk it up as a bad experience and learn from it. Not all alliances and corps treat there members like that. All the best in finding your place in eve qtf With recruting new ppl follows obligation. You help them out. Especially when the recruit is fairly new in the game or hasnt been in region before. They want to join a community where they get new friends and new challenges. It dont cost u alot of effort to assign a pilot to help scouting for the guy. Ofcourse you have your requirements and tests for new members, and its your right also. Im not gonna jump to fast conclusions about ISSN leadership, as im not a member there. As a co-ceo myself i dont have time to take care of all new members, but i make sure that someone in corp is assigned to the task. Its simply about good leadership. ECP.R killboard
Felatious	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Naldo Big corps/alliances have more important issues to deal with than new members, may sound pretty harsh it is true though. Smaller more compact corps are generally more organised and more friendly. Try looking for one of them to join. What a load of crap. One must always look after their new members. I am sure outfits such as Agony Unleashed and goons might beg to differ.
Atreus Minmatarius ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 12:49:00 - [52] Edited by: Atreus Minmatarius on 04/10/2006 12:53:00 Originally by: Mitchman In the engagements we have had with ISSN, they have shown more willingness to fight than most and there has been no smack afterwards. That is commendable. Oh I remember you Mitch... you were in that Raven that took more pounding than Paris Hilton and never went down, some freakin tankin that was...good job... I don't like you. 2 days after joining ISSN I had a 2BS, 2-3 TII frigs and recon cruisers in Fabrica all of which I brought on my own through very hostile teritory without any problems... there are ways. I am the one, ORGAZMATRON...
Nesa Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.04 15:46:00 - [53] This is my interaction with that person known as 'Teebee'. My corp doesn't recruit very often, but each time we have (6 month intervals), there's Teebee, again, looking for a corp. Big demands, nothing to offer. The other day, one of our members was mining ice, just a little bit 'under the influence' and what did Teebee do, steal it in a Vexor of course (move it to his can). Said member then attacked a vexor, in a retriever (yes, dumb).. Bye bye retriever. He then returned in a Raven 20 minutes later, and naturally lost that to concord. (Don't drink and fly people). Now, this game has some annoying people who do that, fair enough, that's their fun, and the game allows it. Normally we kill them for the favour. So I can't say I'm unhappy when he falls on his face when fighting as it's supposed to be done, in 0.0. Where any real pilot with all his senses will kick his ass. TBH, I think ISSN and anyone else who reads this had dodged a bullet here.
Mynas Atoch Caldari ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Felatious Originally by: Naldo Big corps/alliances have more important issues to deal with than new members, may sound pretty harsh it is true though. Smaller more compact corps are generally more organised and more friendly. Try looking for one of them to join. What a load of crap. One must always look after their new members. I am sure outfits such as Agony Unleashed and goons might beg to differ. ISSN's minimum requirements reflect the fact we fight the best PvPers in EVE, and are exclusively 0.0 based. Amongst other criteria we expect a minimum 8m skillpoints, with the majority in relevant PvP skills. Our furthest 'Duty Station' is about 8 jumps from hi-sec and not much further from our nearest Empire depot. If a new recruit needs escorted those 8 jumps in his condor or slasher or whatever other disposable ship he uses to come to ISS Marginis, ISS Borealis, ISS Consido or ISS Cassini set up his first jumpclone, and is worried about losing said clone on the way in, he is not what we are looking for. Indeed, we would hope he or she would take the opportunity to make midpoint, oblique approach and scan point BM's on the route on his way in without having to be told. Now what part of the above description fits someone getting ganked solo in a BS without letting anyone know he was coming, and losing all his mods in a hauler PASSING THROUGH Jita during 3 simultaneous Empire Wars, while moving them to our Agil, or wherever-the-hell-he -was-going, depot on his main in an unescorted badger - and then asks for the corp for 100m isk compensation for it!!! ISSN are not recruiting trial accounts. We are PvPing with, to name some adversies from the last WEEK - The Establishment, Omniscient Order, Triumvirate, Finite Horizon, Coallition of Carebear Killers, Veto, Muffins of Mayhem, S*****rdly, Against All Authority, Privateers, Arcana Imperium, Without Reason, DIE WITH HONOUR, Revelations Inc, Mentally Unstable Enterprises, x13 (Barracudas), S.A.S, Amarr Control Tower (ooops!), Alektrophobia, iPOD Alliance, BURN EDEN, Omerta Syndicate, Malicious Intentions, Black Reign Syndicate, Firmus Ixion, Exotic Dancers Club, Exuro Mortis, BOB ... need I go on? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=396002

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:00:00 - [55] This forum is an in character forum. Most of the posts have been Out of character. Now unfortunately you are not in a corporation so you can't post in the other corporation forum (nor can I move this thread there). This thread has gone far enough OOC. Thread Locked click ___ Email Us (Report a bad post) \| Forum Rules - Read 'em! \| Website


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