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The Star Fraction and Mito Constellation

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Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:21:00 - [31] Yuki, you and yours are quite simply failing at understanding what we are doing, and why. No surprise, when you are too busy painting the Rabbits black for having the same engagement rules you have. Except that the Rabbits are engaged in a fight towards a good cause. You aren't. You've regressed to aimless nullsec piracy, returning to the table only for a chance to defend a ractionary system that would have humanity locked in collective shackles for all time. As for any purported Sansha connection, Sansha was a loon that completely lost track of the plot. You don't free the slave by making him a drone.
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:26:00 - [32] It amuses me how everyone is trying to tell everyone else how the other should think based on that others beliefs and values? Maybe that is where the discusion should start? "Should I decide what O-Syn / JF / Rabbits / KD should do by trying to interpret their values?" recruitment
Selim Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:26:00 - [33] Edited by: Selim on 04/10/2006 16:27:34 Originally by: Derrys ... I would've thought the Star Fraction would be delighted by what we've accomplished in Mito, since the end result is compatible with their agenda as much as it furthers ours. ... As the State wishes only to defend its borders, assure the safety of its citizens, and recover stolen territory, we are not only the most righteous of the major nations, but also the most compatible with the Fraction's agenda. I'm sorry, but what agenda are you speaking of? I know of no such Star Fraction agenda that is even remotely compatible with the "Caldari Way". As far as I know, we have never and will never support any of the empires in their ways - especially the State, which represses individualism and stands only for corporate servitude and militaristic nationalism. I'm terribly sorry to inform you that such an 'ideal', no matter how much it is butterded up with tales of 'progress', 'righteousness' and 'freedom', is completely incompatible with true freedom. The only people that are truly free are us the pod pilots, the Caldari and Gallente CEO's, the politicians, the Amarr lords, and the Minmatar tribal leaders. Everyone else is enslaved to varying degrees. And what exactly have you accomplished in Mito? Originally by: Nooey And this is to say nothing of your current choice of friends... I don't recall anyone in Star Fraction ever declaring us friendly to the Guristas, my friend. We share a common foe, this is true, but who says we are, truly, on their side?
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko ...the Rabbits are engaged in a fight towards a good cause. You aren't. You've regressed to aimless...piracy Originally by: Naphtalia So this is what is going to happen. We will fly trough Mito and murder people you are supposed to protect and we will pillage their ships and fatten our wallets. Chaos is upon you, The Black Rabbits. What nonsense... ____
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:31:00 - [35] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 04/10/2006 16:32:06 Originally by: Nooey For all of Jericho claims about espousing truth, you seem awfully reluctant to admit to your own grey areas. No doubt you will harp on about the fact that you did not actually join BoB, nor did you accept their Rules of Engagement, all the while pretending that you in no way furthered their own goals and helped support their own oppressive regime. I can but sigh and reiterate: you don't get it. What I will "harp on about" is that we chose our avenues as we see fit. If at any time we deem it in the interest of the revolution to make common cause against a common enemy, we will do so and make no apologies for it, since no apologies are needed. Originally by: Nooey And this is to say nothing of your current choice of friends... As has been stated a multitude of times: what is our "friends" doing that you haven't? If you mean the Rabbits, and I assume our voiced approval of their decision to fight the agents of stasis, then the difference would be just that latter thing. A very important difference. Anything else that they are, you are too. Any claims to the contrary rings all the more hollow with every vessel you unprovokedly attack, each corpse of pilots never before hostile to you set floating in the void. You, Nooey, is a murderer, a pirate, and until quite recently willing defender of territorial exclusion zones. The day you commit to a productive cause helping the future of humanity is the day you might have something legitimate to say about the Rabbits. Until then, they are your betters.
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:39:00 - [36] No apologies to be made huh? So you would have us all believe that the plethora of past involvements Star Fraction has had with oppressive territorial alliances has not in any way benefited or helped them? Thus perpetuating oppression and tyranny? Please, since I clearly don't get it. Explain how that could possibly be true... ____
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko If at any time we deem it in the interest of the revolution to make common cause against a common enemy, we will do so and make no apologies for it, since no apologies are needed. It's already in plain text for you.
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:49:00 - [38] Nooey, Nooey. Since your Quoting machine has failed in your favour by taking out of context partial-text to your advantage, I will help you out. Quote: So this is what is going to happen. We will fly trough Mito and murder people you are supposed to protect and we will pillage their ships and fatten our wallets. We will do so until you either start protecting them again in force; or publically admit you are in no shape or form to protect this constellation anymore with your Phanthom Forces of Fascist Fallacies. First of all this shows the KD to be the real criminals, secondly it shows that we will murder for a reason, unlike yourself who only murder innocents in EC-P8R to boast your inflated ego's and quench your thirst for blood. I must agree with SF here. We are your betters. recruitment
Takitoo	Posted - 2006.10.04 16:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Nooey No apologies to be made huh? So you would have us all believe that the plethora of past involvements Star Fraction has had with oppressive territorial alliances has not in any way benefited or helped them? Thus perpetuating oppression and tyranny? Please, since I clearly don't get it. Explain how that could possibly be true... Don't bother Nooey. They'll just spill a large amount of text at you enhancing their own points (in different ways each time, sweep your arguments under the rug and after a while you'll give up and roll your eyes.. They'll turn around and proclaim victory and continue being just like any other non-NBSI roamer alliance. That's how JF works. ___________________________ Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:08:00 - [40] Edited by: Nooey on 04/10/2006 17:08:54 So...I ask you to please explain why no apology is necessary and the best you have is a quote that essentially means "Because we say so". Great work. ____
Bang Gunk	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:11:00 - [41] Edited by: Bang Gunk on 04/10/2006 17:12:26
Scorpio Dantes Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Naphtalia First of all this shows the KD to be the real criminals, secondly it shows that we will murder for a reason, unlike yourself who only murder innocents in EC-P8R to boast your inflated ego's and quench your thirst for blood. I've found that in our current political culture, dominated as it is by ultranationalistic corporations and fascist states, words like 'criminals' really don't have much meaning. Is it a bad thing to be considered a criminal by the dogmatic forces of reactionism and their sycophantic functionaries? Am I a criminal because I sympathize with the Rabbit cause? I choose to think not. The real criminals are those who would build prisons for the mind and body and their elimination is the just cause of revolution. ~Dantes ________
Edward Sarum	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:23:00 - [43] Originally by: Naphtalia Nooey, Nooey. Since your Quoting machine has failed in your favour by taking out of context partial-text to your advantage, I will help you out. Quote: So this is what is going to happen. We will fly trough Mito and murder people you are supposed to protect and we will pillage their ships and fatten our wallets. We will do so until you either start protecting them again in force; or publically admit you are in no shape or form to protect this constellation anymore with your Phanthom Forces of Fascist Fallacies. First of all this shows the KD to be the real criminals, secondly it shows that we will murder for a reason, unlike yourself who only murder innocents in EC-P8R to boast your inflated ego's and quench your thirst for blood. I must agree with SF here. We are your betters. Let me make sure I have this straight, the Black Rabbits said the second quote up there. They basically said we will kill innocents unless KD withdraws, that is extortion or KD has to fight. AND THIS proves KD is criminal? Can I please have some of what it is you are smoking and next time bring enough for the enitre class. =============================================== Edward Sarum "God and Empire are all we need..."
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Edward Sarum Let me make sure I have this straight Yep you got it straight, they are criminals to their words, their beliefs and within their own system of laws. It is their duty to prevent the death of innocents which they have opportunity to do so. Out of greed and fear of being defeated they chose to sacrifice their charge to the Guristas. There is one organisation that can prevent the slaughter, all they have to do is fight or admit defeat. This organisation choses to do neither and thereby killing the Otsasai local. ... However I before I take this discussion Off Topic. It was really to show how The Black Rabbits fight for a reason, where Omerta Syndicate just fights to quench their thirst for blood and explosions to be able to tell themselves they are really good combat pilots. recruitment
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 17:57:00 - [45] Originally by: Nooey Edited by: Nooey on 04/10/2006 17:08:54 So...I ask you to please explain why no apology is necessary and the best you have is a quote that essentially means "Because we say so". Forgive me, Nooey, but what offence do you imagine we have anything to apologise for? I await with interest the grave charges we must meet. On another matter, the Star Fraction has at no time in the past engaged in war with the Kimotoro Directive; no 'understanding' exists between the Kimotoro Directive and the Star Fraction; and there is no dark personal animus driving anything in particular so far as the Star Fraction is concerned. I should also say that no 'understanding' exists between CAIN corporation and the Star Fraction as a consequence of the war between CAIN and the Fraction following the Ullia Hnolku affair. I think it is telling that CAIN consider that any such 'understanding' between ourselves and they alone would have a bearing on the entirety of the Kimotoro Directive but no such agreement exists. I see also a claim to foresight and anticipation of some act of aggression on our part. This is interesting insofar as it suggests that the Kimotoro Directive is at some level aware that their activities are potentially cause for... an intervention of some kind on the part of freedom-loving capsuleers. Whatever transpires, let no-one say it is a sudden or random act if even those who oppose us are able to dimly grasp that there is ample motive here. The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Nooey So...I ask you to please explain why no apology is necessary How difficult can it be? If we judge that a course of action furthers the cause of the revolution, we will commit to it with no regret. Why would we apologise for doing what's necessary in the name of humanity's future? You, on the other hand, is a planless murderer and an agent of the status quo. You demanding explanations and even apologies from us is hilarious at best, and just plain sad any other day. The Black Rabbits are vastly greater agents of freedom and futures bright than you. Live with it.
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:22:00 - [47] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Forgive me, Nooey, but what offence do you imagine we have anything to apologise for? I guess I'll just rephrase my question then.. ...That the plethora of past involvements Star Fraction has had with oppressive territorial alliances has benefited and/or helped them (the alliances) thus perpetuating oppression and tyranny. Not quite the same thing you accuse Omerta of (Joining said alliances and sharing their NBSI doctrine), but there is still the issue of the other ways in which Jericho is responsible for the perpetuation of tyranny. If it's a necessary means to your end then just say so... Anyhow it's not really on topic, but just something that I don't understand. On topic, Cos, I'd like to hear what you have to say about comments like this. Originally by: Naphtalia There is one organisation that can prevent the slaughter, all they have to do is fight or admit defeat. This organisation choses to do neither and thereby killing the Otsasai local. What possibly attracts a freespacer to this? It reeks of the very same entrenched memes you fight. Where is the individual freedom in comments like this, that assert that freedom lies in the hands of the sheperds and the wolves? ____
Yuki Li Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:33:00 - [48] Quote: Yuki, you and yours are quite simply failing at understanding what we are doing, and why. No surprise, when you are too busy painting the Rabbits black for having the same engagement rules you have. Thankyou for completely avoiding my point, Tatsue, the same way you always do when you have no coherent answer. That said, most of your answers here thus far have been little more than hypocritical spin, but i expected that from you, it's all you know how to do - the actual truth isn't an option you'd ever consider. It still stands that The Star Fraction is supporting a territorial NBSI alliance - the Guristas. That's pretty difficult to get around, isn't it. Do you really think the Guristas would take over State space and turn it into some daydream utopian forest of happiness? No. The Guristas are not a cause worth following, you're lashing out because you have nothing better to do, and you're supporting Guristas because you're incapable of doing it by yourself. Website / Forums / Recruiting
Azador Kavian Amarr Royal Knights of Khanid Order of the Khanid Crown	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:39:00 - [49] The utter hypocrisy of all involved parties here simply... astounds me. -------- Venerate the almighty Khanid, for without him we are nothing!
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 19:11:00 - [50] Nooey, as per your claimed offense as per us aparrently leading directly to the spread of imperialism - Surely you refer to us working against common enemies with those who keep NBSI doctrine - I see no basis for your claims. Its really as simple as using what resources are available to bring the enemy down. If that means using one pigdog to kill another, then so much the better, that still is one less imperialist faction in lawless space to prey on the innocent. To make it really simple, look at it this way. Faction A shoots us, and Faction B does not shoot us but shoots Faction A. Isn't it logical for us to help Faction B kill Faction A? Is there something wrong with this, when what we are helping is simply the destruction of Faction A when not actually increasing the territorial influence of Faction B? Unless I am mistaken as I have not been with Jericho forever, but everything I know about our corporation's history since the GNW has not involved the assistance of NBSI-ing alliances in imperialistic objectives. Somehow I doubt you will be able to find hard evidence to the contrary. Frankly I don't see why you think you have any right to challenge our ideology until you forsake NBSI yourselves. The minute you all stop shooting innocent neutrals on a whim is where you can start to have any sort of moral high ground to speak from. Now, I can't speak for all of Jericho but I see the Black Rabbits as directly challenging the same sort of imperialistic and nationalistic policies we also challenge. Simply enough, Kimotoro Directive has claimed the role of protector for the Mito Constellation and when push comes to shove, all Black Rabbits wants them to do is stand down and throw away a claim fueled by their overinflated pride. I think this is a worthwhile objective to support. So, in other terms, the end they seek coincides with our policy. Myself, I find their methods of holding the locals hostage questionable, though given how incredibly simple their demands are, I would place some responsibility on Kimotoro Directive for not casting aside their nationalistic pride for the sake of those they claim to care about. I support their actions taken against the State nationalists, not all of their policies. Frankly, if you honestly think that Jericho Fraction is about to jump out and help the Guristas conquer anything then really, you need to brush up on what we are about. As I said earlier, from everything I know Jericho Fraction has never supported anyone's enclosurist territorial claims, certainly not within any of my own experience, and that is one policy we will never back away from. Quote: No. The Guristas are not a cause worth following, you're lashing out because you have nothing better to do, and you're supporting Guristas because you're incapable of doing it by yourself. And that is really not a very nice thing to say. It hurts my industrialist sensibilites and insults my ability to help the corp prepare for conflict. It also insults my combat abilities. It makes me sad. Though, given that the last time I was in contact with ANYONE from Omerta was not in Jericho Fraction (I was in Fate. at the time, you can thank me Nooey for ordering the gang to spare you and your buddy) I really don't see how you are in any position to appraise this. Perhaps in due time you may learn of your error. Fear is the mind-killer.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 19:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Nooey If it's a necessary means to your end then just say so... Originally by: Tatsue Nuko If at any time we deem it in the interest of the revolution to make common cause against a common enemy, we will do so and make no apologies for it, since no apologies are needed. Why did that take several reiterations? Originally by: Nooey Not quite the same thing you accuse Omerta of (Joining said alliances and sharing their NBSI doctrine) Omerta's decision to commence aggression on non-hostiles pre-dates joining forces with organizations such as PURE. The best and only explanation offered is yourself recently stating that there is no such thing as a neutral, and the definition of innocent pilot being State Citizenry or Residency. As for your comment on Rabbit policy, there are regrettable elements. But they have stated their reason, being that the Kimotoro Directive have labelled themselves shepherds, and the Rabbits are showing them that Kimotoro lacks the ability to make good on that. My personal opinion is quite simple: anyone that relies on a shepherd has given up all freedom already. You cannot be free and reliant on a would-be police force at the same time. He who calls upon the "law" against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. He who cannot take care of himself without that "law" is both. On to Yuki... Originally by: Yuki Li It still stands that The Star Fraction is supporting a territorial NBSI alliance - the Guristas. The Star Fraction holds no allegiance or support of the Guristas. We applaud the corporation Black Rabbits for their initiative against the State-loyal militias present in Mito Constellation. That's it. If you made a similar commitment against reactionary forces you'd get applauded for it too. You don't, however. You have been quite content shooting neutral entities at every opportunity, leaving that as your only agenda and purpose. Originally by: Yuki Li you're supporting Guristas because you're incapable of doing it by yourself. Is this a fact? Are you calling upon us to attack Kimotoro Directive? I'll take it under consideration. End of the matter for Omerta is this, though: you're murderers. That's all. The Black Rabbits may be murderers too, but they are killing the right people, with many of the right reasons. The gulf between the two of you is vast and in their favour. If your above quoted statement is to be interpreted as claims of weakness, I will welcome a war declaration. I would lobby to have it made mutual to avoid evasions on grounds of economy. You are currently at war with the Black Rabbits, and apparently we are "supporting" them and being generally naughty. Punish us or shut it.
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.04 19:33:00 - [52] Edited by: Gorion Wassenar on 04/10/2006 19:32:57 Originally by: Ituralde Myself, I find their methods of holding the locals hostage questionable, though given how incredibly simple their demands are, I would place some responsibility on Kimotoro Directive for not casting aside their nationalistic pride for the sake of those they claim to care about. The Gallente tried that. Didn't work. What makes you think anything's changed since then? ------------------ CEO of TKI
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:20:00 - [53] Frankly Gorion, I don't see how you can be not responsible if your claims are directly related to the death of innocents. This is not to judge your actions, it simply means that if innocents do fall at the hands of the Black Rabbits, it is partly your repsonsibility as you could both not maintain your pledge of protection and also for that same pledge incurring their wrath. In very simple terms, you have to either be able to do what you say or you need to abandon the claim to spare those who your actions endanger. Such pledges anyhow are the results of nationalistic pride anyhow, and inherrently puts the claimant in the position of overlord. Such claims are the sort that Star Fraction does not support. Myself, I would rather risk death at the hands of pirates than submit to the 'protection' of the Caldari State. It is better to die free than to live as the dog of another. Fear is the mind-killer.
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:31:00 - [54] I think the reponsibilty lies entirely on the person doing the killing. I don't see police officers getting charged with murder when a hostage is killed by criminals. This is exactly the same. As for backing it up, I belive we're at war and would be shooting those people responsible if they were around. ------------------ CEO of TKI
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:33:00 - [55] I have to admit that much of the interchange of words and accusations and such between free captains of the Star Fraction and officers of Omerta Syndicate in this discussion topic have been rather pointless. The issue here is the Star Fraction's presence and intentions in the Mito Constellation. What Omerta Syndicate choose to do over the Kimotoro vs Black Rabbits engagement is entirely down to them. What Star Fracton might do in the immediate future is entirely down to us. Raking over the past coals of old campaigns and prior allegiences serves no-one. The Star Fraction is known for its idealism and mission. This continues. I've never once doubted my involvement the posthumanist cause and none of my experiences on the frontier, nullsec or patrolled militia space have persuaded me that the cluster is in any way free from constraining influence and significant restriction. Whatever happens remember this. Star Fraction does not make war on planetary populations or the machinary of open trade. We do make war on those who wish to be the jailers of other's dreams, and chaos is better than stasis and strangulation. _________________
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:37:00 - [56] But you support those that do? Rubbish. ------------------ CEO of TKI
Darina Rea True Core	Posted - 2006.10.04 21:05:00 - [57] Sooooo, the Fraction is putting themselves up as messegers of peace hoping to get the territorial factions to work together and prosper? Somehow, that sounds like a real contradiction, both of the parties involved in the confict and the Fraction. But please, keep creating chaos in the Empires space. It's so much fun. Time is on our side.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 21:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Darina Rea Sooooo, the Fraction is putting themselves up as messegers of peace hoping to get the territorial factions to work together and prosper? Somehow, that sounds like a real contradiction, both of the parties involved in the confict and the Fraction. But please, keep creating chaos in the Empires space. It's so much fun. Are we reading the same thread? _________________
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.04 21:39:00 - [59] Originally by: Gorion Wassenar But you support those that do? Rubbish. What? _________________
Beringe Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.10.04 23:14:00 - [60] I, for one, am seeing Star Fraction's efforts as increasingly anti-humanitarian. As always, fighting for ideals first and people second results in tragedy. If you really wanted nothing but freedom, you would be leading by example, creating just such a society (or lack of one). You do not fix a broken system by destroying it. The revolution eats her children. But then, this isn't a revolution. In order to be classified thus, it would need to be bigger, and have an actual following amongst the people. What we are seeing is a small band of individuals making war based on rethoric that is contradictive, unpopular and far too flowery for my taste. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--

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