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Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:34:00 - [1] - Quote Calling it now. Little carebears that get shittons of rewards for blasting incursions in highsec with tiny risk simply fucks the risk/reward pattern. Let the tearbears and bitternoobs rage.
CydoniusElfo 1st Legion 2	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:35:00 - [2] - Quote First in another pointless nurfinc thread
Hiram Alexander Seraphim Securities 123	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:45:00 - [3] - Quote I've said it before, so I guess there's no harm in repeating myself... I don't have a problem with the Isk side of the Risk/Reward equation, so, personally I see no point in nerfing it. I have a 'problem' with the Risk side of the equation... Incursions have been established as a game mechanic for so long now, that there is no risk... Just get an FC who knows what he's doing, then watch a movie and press F1 occasionally... Disaster for the economy, and gameplay. Johnny Sansha should quit. Complete withdrawl of forces, 'til he's got a 'new' gameplan. I'm not saying CCP should have to recreate entire sets of assetts, etc. Just change the spawning mechanisms and triggers - and ideally - make them 'dynamic', so that the runners need to actually pay attention... Anything with this little risk, and such a massive reward should (in my opinion) be 'reworked' every couple of months - not every couple of expansions... I have no problem with people making shedloads of Isk. Not at all. Hell, I love WH's to bits, but they're damned risky... billions upon billions are lost in Anoikis every day, Incursions are currently a 'free ride' in comparison...
adopt Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 119	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:49:00 - [4] - Quote Hiram Alexander wrote: I've said it before, so I guess there's no harm in repeating myself... I don't have a problem with the Isk side of the Risk/Reward equation, so, personally I see no point in nerfing it. I have a 'problem' with the Risk side of the equation... Incursions have been established as a game mechanic for so long now, that there is no risk... Just get an FC who knows what he's doing, then watch a movie and press F1 occasionally... Disaster for the economy, and gameplay. Johnny Sansha should quit. Complete withdrawl of forces, 'til he's got a 'new' gameplan. I'm not saying CCP should have to recreate entire sets of assetts, etc. Just change the spawning mechanisms and triggers - and ideally - make them 'dynamic', so that the runners need to actually pay attention... Anything with this little risk, and such a massive reward should (in my opinion) be 'reworked' every couple of months - not every couple of expansions... I have no problem with people making shedloads of Isk. Not at all. Hell, I love WH's to bits, but they're damned risky... billions upon billions are lost in Anoikis every day, Incursions are currently a 'free ride' in comparison... Dude, I wish I could go watch a movie in the middle of a HQ site, but contrary to popular belief, they are actually still very difficult sites. What needs to change is Vanguards, they are far too easy and break the ISK/Risk ratio. Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled.
Xtover Macabre Votum 1	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:52:00 - [5] - Quote No. Please leave my alt's ISK printer alone. K THX.
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen 80	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:53:00 - [6] - Quote adopt wrote: Hiram Alexander wrote: I've said it before, so I guess there's no harm in repeating myself... I don't have a problem with the Isk side of the Risk/Reward equation, so, personally I see no point in nerfing it. I have a 'problem' with the Risk side of the equation... Incursions have been established as a game mechanic for so long now, that there is no risk... Just get an FC who knows what he's doing, then watch a movie and press F1 occasionally... Disaster for the economy, and gameplay. Johnny Sansha should quit. Complete withdrawl of forces, 'til he's got a 'new' gameplan. I'm not saying CCP should have to recreate entire sets of assetts, etc. Just change the spawning mechanisms and triggers - and ideally - make them 'dynamic', so that the runners need to actually pay attention... Anything with this little risk, and such a massive reward should (in my opinion) be 'reworked' every couple of months - not every couple of expansions... I have no problem with people making shedloads of Isk. Not at all. Hell, I love WH's to bits, but they're damned risky... billions upon billions are lost in Anoikis every day, Incursions are currently a 'free ride' in comparison... Dude, I wish I could go watch a movie in the middle of a HQ site, but contrary to popular belief, they are actually still very difficult sites. What needs to change is Vanguards, they are far too easy and break the ISK/Risk ratio. Both of the above posts say it perfectly IMO.
Hiram Alexander Seraphim Securities 123	Posted - 2011.12.01 14:57:00 - [7] - Quote adopt wrote: Dude, I wish I could go watch a movie in the middle of a HQ site, but contrary to popular belief, they are actually still very difficult sites. What needs to change is Vanguards, they are far too easy and break the ISK/Risk ratio. Fair play... I shouldn't be so assumptive perhaps, but I did actually assume that the OP, like in so many other 'nerf Incursions' threads, was complaining about Vanguards quite specifically; as these are quite literally the 'farms' that need changing the most, but I do stand by my statement that they all need to change from time to time. And as I've said elsewhere - I'm not griping about Incursions exclusively, hell, Lvl 4's and Wormholes themselves ought to be more 'dynamic'...
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 81	Posted - 2011.12.01 15:21:00 - [8] - Quote Hiram Alexander wrote: adopt wrote: Dude, I wish I could go watch a movie in the middle of a HQ site, but contrary to popular belief, they are actually still very difficult sites. What needs to change is Vanguards, they are far too easy and break the ISK/Risk ratio. Fair play... I shouldn't be so assumptive perhaps, but I did actually assume that the OP, like in so many other 'nerf Incursions' threads, was complaining about Vanguards quite specifically; as these are quite literally the 'farms' that need changing the most, but I do stand by my statement that they all need to change from time to time. And as I've said elsewhere - I'm not griping about Incursions exclusively, hell, Lvl 4's and Wormholes themselves ought to be more 'dynamic'... They keep talking how they want more ppl in low sec and 0.0, but somehow they keep making high sec income ridiculously good/easy. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 210	Posted - 2011.12.01 15:22:00 - [9] - Quote Quote: Nerf Incursion hi-sec rewards
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 181	Posted - 2011.12.01 15:26:00 - [10] - Quote Funny thing, whiny OP has access to incursions. Which means, you too can run highsec money printing sites. So if you choose to not run incursions and are bitter about it, whos ***** problem is that? Not CCP's, cause you are the one refusing to use the resources out their. And my suggestion Shut the ***** server off for good. BAM! Fixes every problem everyone bitches abouts. /thread
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen 80	Posted - 2011.12.01 15:32:00 - [11] - Quote Aqriue wrote: Funny thing, whiny OP has access to incursions. Which means, you too can run highsec money printing sites. So if you choose to not run incursions and are bitter about it, whos ***** problem is that? Not CCP's, cause you are the one refusing to use the resources out their. And my suggestion Shut the ***** server off for good. BAM! Fixes every problem everyone bitches abouts. /thread Why are you so angry at the world? Need a hug?
Roosterton Eternal Frontier 170	Posted - 2011.12.01 15:37:00 - [12] - Quote Nope. Why? The more people who run incursions, the lower rewards everyone gets. Currently, only about 5% of the hisec population runs incursions. You whiners have every ability to go run them yourselves to nerf the rewards for everyone else. More contests = less wins = less isk/hr. It's like saying "nerf centum a-type loot" when only one guy is running high level sansha complexes to get centum a-type loot. "He's getting too rich selling centum a-type loot! He can make 300mil+ isk/hr!" You might say, and sure, that's true, but it's only because he has no competition, so his loot is really expensive. You can't blame the game mechanic on the fact that it doesn't have enough people taking part in it. Even with 5% of highsec running incursions, there are tons of fleet contests, causing lesser fleets to be brushed off while the isk goes towards those who are best prepared. If that went up to 15% or 20%, the average isk/hr/person level would drop further. You also have the option to form fleets of your own to kill the MOM sites and despawn highsec incursions. Or you could come up with griefing tactics to get shiny battleship kills. The only thing I agree on is a nerf to Vanguard income, not because they're overpowered compared to other professions, but because they're overpowered compared to other incursions. There's little reason to run Assaults in a 20 man fleet with more risk when you could be making the same isk/hr running vanguards in a 10 man fleet with less risk. TL;DR: You have plenty of ways to mess with incursion runners, stop whining here.
Pavel Bidermann whips chains and ballgags Care Factor 12	Posted - 2011.12.01 15:57:00 - [13] - Quote Null sec carebears crying about high sec carebears has gotten very tiring. Null, low and high sec population! You are all mission runners! Anoms and sanctums are missions! Some you scan and some you don't. Incusion events are more of a random event. They don't need to be adjusted to accomidate your fragile ego. Personally, I've lost more ships in high sec than I have ever lost in null.
Fearless M0F0 Incursion PWNAGE Asc 2	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:11:00 - [14] - Quote Vachir Khan wrote: They keep talking how they want more ppl in low sec and 0.0, but somehow they keep making high sec income ridiculously good/easy. Easy?, so you find a bunch of maxed out T3 and logistic pilots under every stone you lift? Easy?, yeah, you can roll up a new character and join vanguard fleets and make 120m/hr right away.... right?
Jessie Kenan Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 8	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:12:00 - [15] - Quote The problem is that the answer to the question 'What's the easiest way to make isk?' is always 'Hi-sec incursions'. By a wide margin. It trivializes all other means of making isk that turns the economy gears.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 436	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:17:00 - [16] - Quote Aqriue wrote: Funny thing, whiny OP has access to incursions. Which means, you too can run highsec money printing sites. So if you choose to not run incursions and are bitter about it, whos ***** problem is that? Not CCP's, cause you are the one refusing to use the resources out their. And my suggestion Shut the ***** server off for good. BAM! Fixes every problem everyone bitches abouts. /thread go trade in your commodore 64 and buy a real computer so you can generate an avatar. because nobody listens to the complaints of someone who cant even be arsed to make a portrait The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
mkint 421	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:19:00 - [17] - Quote more nullbear QQ's that someone else might be enjoying the game. EVE is better without you. Just quit. Highsec station trading is the highest potential income in the game. Remove the market!
Cipher Jones 121	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:21:00 - [18] - Quote Quote: I have a 'problem' with the Risk side of the equation... Incursions have been established as a game mechanic for so long now, that there is no risk... Just get an FC who knows what he's doing, then watch a movie and press F1 occasionally... Disaster for the economy, and gameplay. A sure thing with a variable involved is no longer a sure thing. Ever. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:32:00 - [19] - Quote Lets all move to highsec and run incursions! Yay rainbow happyland!
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:41:00 - [20] - Quote If they're as easy and riskfree as people suggest, why aren't more people flocking to run them?
Metal Icarus xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire 20	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:47:00 - [21] - Quote Incursion Interdiction using suicide blackbirds?
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 82	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:54:00 - [22] - Quote Fearless M0F0 wrote: Vachir Khan wrote: They keep talking how they want more ppl in low sec and 0.0, but somehow they keep making high sec income ridiculously good/easy. Easy?, so you find a bunch of maxed out T3 and logistic pilots under every stone you lift? Easy?, yeah, you can roll up a new character and join vanguard fleets and make 120m/hr right away.... right? If you think that "maxing out a T3" and "flying or being friends with a logistics pilot" is difficult then that says more about you than the game. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman Loud On The Forums Silent In Game 26	Posted - 2011.12.01 18:58:00 - [23] - Quote Everybody should do these. Seriously, the isk you can make is obscene. I hope CCP leave them as they are.
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen 82	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:05:00 - [24] - Quote ITT: more iskursion farmers try to play down the potency of their cash cow in an effort to preserve it. It'l end exactly the same way as ALLLLLLLL the other threads popping up lately. You'l be proved wrong, then shut up until the next thread comes along.
Fidelium Mortis Quantum Cats Syndicate 2	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:08:00 - [25] - Quote Incursions, especially in high sec, are too predictable and can (and often are) be done while half asleep. I would like to see CCP occasionally warp/jump in a small support fleet in to the occasional incursion room to shake things up a little. I'd like to see what would happen if a small sansha fleet with a couple extra jams or neuts would do to an incursion fleet that is practically flying on autopilot.
Jita Alt666 606	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:10:00 - [26] - Quote mkint wrote: more nullbear QQ's that someone else might be enjoying the game. EVE is better without you. Just quit. Highsec station trading is the highest potential income in the game. Remove the market! Are you the same mkint who was crying about the PI changes? Objectivity levels - non existant
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:13:00 - [27] - Quote Fidelium Mortis wrote: Incursions, especially in high sec, are too predictable and can (and often are) be done while half asleep. I would like to see CCP occasionally warp/jump in a small support fleet in to the occasional incursion room to shake things up a little. I'd like to see what would happen if a small sansha fleet with a couple extra jams or neuts would do to an incursion fleet that is practically flying on autopilot. That's a great idea. The coolest thing is you don't even need to wait for CCP to implement it, just do it yourselves!
proxwar Klaatu Technologies 21	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:18:00 - [28] - Quote Raven Ether wrote: Calling it now. Little carebears that get shittons of rewards for blasting incursions in highsec with tiny risk simply fucks the risk/reward pattern. Let the tearbears and bitternoobs rage. U MAD BRO? Also, STFU and get back to your awesome space nullbear.
Tore Vest Vikinghall 98	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:22:00 - [29] - Quote
Ottersmacker Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 3	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:35:00 - [30] - Quote an easy fix could be: * maximum of only one active incursion in hisec at any time * less vanguard systems per hisec incursion (or everywhere idc) this would still allow incursions to be a no-risk hisec isk faucet, but in a much more contained amount. the bears with the highest gear scores can still profit, but there will be more competition. it would also promote more conflict etc between those that run them.
Blood Fart Silent Coven 22	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:36:00 - [31] - Quote Takseen wrote: If they're as easy and riskfree as people suggest, why aren't more people flocking to run them? My guess is that EVE's pve generally consists of warping to something then shooting red crosses in the order the online walkthrough directs you to until you memorize it? Really, who cares how much it makes it's boring as hell....why don't we just call them what they are? Raids. I think the reward for doing an incursion should be an Orc or Fairy portrait and dance emote.
Recycled Alt Mish 4 free 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:51:00 - [32] - Quote Fearless M0F0 wrote: Easy?, yeah, you can roll up a new character and join vanguard fleets and make 120m/hr right away.... right? Erm, yes, 7m SP and you are a very capable Logi 5 pilot.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 123	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:55:00 - [33] - Quote Leave Incursion rewards, remove CONCORD from highsec Incursions. If they can keep making 120m an hour while fighting off pirates, they deserve it.
Nyssah RONA Corporation RONA Directorate 4	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:57:00 - [34] - Quote Raven Ether wrote: Calling it now. Little carebears that get shittons of rewards for blasting incursions in highsec with tiny risk simply fucks the risk/reward pattern. Let the tearbears and bitternoobs rage. Because sitting out in deep deep 0.0 with intel channels informing you of hostile movements 20+ jumps away, as they move closer to you system by system being reported all the way along, as you sit in your sanctum in a carrier is a high risk situation. Please, I never felt safer sitting out in 0.0 running sanctums in my Nyx. Hell you have more of a chance in high-sec being screwed over by an angry logi's who doesn't want to rep someone because of some grudge that happened 6 months ago. Example provided below, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDDRTnrgaJs Go find something else to QQ over.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:21:00 - [35] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Leave Incursion rewards, remove CONCORD from highsec Incursions. If they can keep making 120m an hour while fighting off pirates, they deserve it. We have that, they're called lowsec incursions. Massively popular, I'm told... Seriously though folks. I doubt CCP are going to kill off one of their few successful features of the past few years. If you want to be constructive, you'd need to think of ways to make it more viable in low and null. Or make it rewarding without acting as such a big isk faucet if you're worried about the inflation aspect.
Forum Fighter Internet Tough Guys 1	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:23:00 - [36] - Quote Hi guys what's going on in here? Oh, null sec carebears are mad about high sec carebears. This needed a thread? Rescuing fanbois from haters since 2003-¬
Forum Fighter Internet Tough Guys 1	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:25:00 - [37] - Quote Recycled Alt wrote: Fearless M0F0 wrote: Easy?, yeah, you can roll up a new character and join vanguard fleets and make 120m/hr right away.... right? Erm, yes, 7m SP and you are a very capable Logi 5 pilot. That takes 124 days to train m8 0707070707 Rescuing fanbois from haters since 2003-¬
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 123	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:36:00 - [38] - Quote Takseen wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Leave Incursion rewards, remove CONCORD from highsec Incursions. If they can keep making 120m an hour while fighting off pirates, they deserve it. We have that, they're called lowsec incursions. Massively popular, I'm told... Seriously though folks. I doubt CCP are going to kill off one of their few successful features of the past few years. If you want to be constructive, you'd need to think of ways to make it more viable in low and null. Man that's easy: Next time I'm fighting Sansha in period basis, if any red tries and shoots me while I'm rolling in isk, CONCORD blows them up. Makes the same amount of sense.
adopt Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 120	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:41:00 - [39] - Quote Ironically, I made this character solely for running incursions, at 1 month, 14 days, I was flying a T2 Fitted Maelstrom, its not difficult for new players to run incursions. Personally, I love them, they are a great social activity for groups of players, its been 9 months since I had 40 rowdy players at my command. What I believe drives people away from incursions is the higher chance you will lose your ship, as well as, you leaving your full, upmost trust, into someone you have never met before, to keep your multi-billion isk ship alive. Personally, I do not run incursions for isk, hence the reason I run, the hardest site, with the most people, to have the most fun. The isk for me is a nice bonus. Usually, for people to experience this kind of bonding with players they would need to join their corporation/alliance follow rules, this is something incursions do not stress on people, it is totally up to the FC. Yes incursions are high isk printing, yes they are making more money than some 0.0 activities. However, what most scublords do not seem to understand is, its not just join fleet > expect reward. It requires practise as well as a monumental amount of time and patience to FC them, I can FC them because I have the time and patience, and I have much more fun than VGs anyway, VGs are full of egotistical maniacs. Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled.
Raven Ether Republic University Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:43:00 - [40] - Quote "Oh iskursions are not easy, they take some much effort and skill" hopes my ridiculous bearincome doesn't get blasted to piece
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force 473	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:44:00 - [41] - Quote So you mean, the thread title should have been: " Nerf HIGHSEC Incursion rewards " ...right ? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection
Pinaculus The High and Mighty 58	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:46:00 - [42] - Quote So, people go to high-sec to earn cash in relative peace then blow it on PLEX and PVP ships that get one-way tickets to Pretty Explosion Heaven. Incursion fleet's happy. PVPer is happy. Manufacturer of PVP ships is happy. Daytrader of PVP ships and PLEX is happy. Guy that spends RL money on PLEX is happy. Only people that aren't happy are people that wanted to gank PVE fit ships. What's the problem? Lots of people only feel comfortable PVPing if they can easily replace their losses. If ISK is hard as hell to earn then people just stop PVPing, or stop playing altogether. Seriously, what is the problem here? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm genuinely curious. I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Pavel Bidermann whips chains and ballgags Care Factor 16	Posted - 2011.12.01 20:51:00 - [43] - Quote there is no problem. Some people in null sec just want to be spoon fed. Next they'll be demanding EVE use neurological controls because reaching for their mouse is much too hard and some people in high sec are using 2 monitors while the poor null sec carebears only have one.
Pinaculus The High and Mighty 58	Posted - 2011.12.01 21:03:00 - [44] - Quote insert snarky comment about null-botting here I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
J3ssica Alba Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2011.12.01 21:08:00 - [45] - Quote I sense a lot of jealousy in the OP. You don't have a toy like the other kids do, so the teacher must take it away from everyone to make you happy!

CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance 512	Posted - 2011.12.03 11:21:00 - [46] - Quote Moved from "EVE General Discussion". CCP Spitfire \| Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire

Schnoo The Schnoo 18	Posted - 2011.12.03 11:43:00 - [47] - Quote Some have mentioned it, but still, it's about balancing rewards. 1) In general, a high sec incursion should pay 50% or less than a low sec incursion. This is to justify two things: a) People will bring extremely expensive (sometimes even multiple billion) ships into a high sec incursion, knowing full well there is no risk. Thus, they will by default be 10-20% more efficient (i'm just making up numbers here) than their low sec counterparts. b) There is that small risk of actually be engaged in pvp in a low sec incursion, I haven't myself gone to any of those so I wouldn't know. 2) Incursion sites themselves should be balanced better. In particular, it is said that certain VG sites (mostly NCOs) are done too fast with very little risk, and those sites need a change. NCOs need to be nerfed while NMCs and OTAs buffed relatively to each other. On the other hand they might all get nerfed in relation to larger sites.
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 186	Posted - 2011.12.03 15:57:00 - [48] - Quote Morganta wrote: go trade in your commodore 64 and buy a real computer so you can generate an avatar. because nobody listens to the complaints of someone who cant even be arsed to make a portrait I would, but obviously you are a master of creativity even with your color blindness. ****, I think even a blind dog could get eye cancer looking at your face.

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