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Azazel The Misanthrope
Animadversion Tactical Operations Index
Legion of Immortal Corporations
42
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:30:27 -
[31] - Quote
As a guy who has murdered flocks and flocks of the sheep. I endorse this. |
Lienzo
Amanuensis
25
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Posted - 2015.02.14 22:15:31 -
[32] - Quote
I would support a change to NCPs to make fighting them more about range dictation or sig mechanics, rather than just hp pinatas with resist holes.
At a minimum, we'll need dual prop frigate NPCs that warp disrupt you and sit at +20km. Short range ones with higher resists that try to scram, neut or web you.
Having to use multiple kinds of weapon platforms implies group content. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
A Nest of Vipers
124
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Posted - 2015.02.15 11:31:55 -
[33] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Raymond Moons wrote:He isn't trying to tell anyone how to play Eve. All players start out in PvE with the tutorials, so some helpful transition to get players into PvP isn't a bad idea, it's just very difficult to implement. Then why implement something that players themselves can take care of better, more efficient and in a more realistic fashion? Effort? 
Hey I do agree that there are a lot of player and community developed tools that do a wonderful job of introducing new players to pvp. It's just that a new player mostly has no idea about them or can't use them effectively.
For example how should a new player know that there are academy-type corporations that could help him? He has no idea. Het same is with PvP. The tools are on the table, but applying learned theory (tutorial) in practice is so hard that many chose one to even try.
Yes, EVE is hard and it should be hard - it's not tetris. A certain level of player effort is required to be able to play. Just lower the bar a little.
An idea: brodcasting a clear information that a sisi server is available to try everything you want would also be a good idea... |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
The Kadeshi
1224
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Posted - 2015.02.15 13:47:25 -
[34] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Hey I do agree that there are a lot of player and community developed tools that do a wonderful job of introducing new players to pvp. It's just that a new player mostly has no idea about them or can't use them effectively.
For example how should a new player know that there are academy-type corporations that could help him? He has no idea. Het same is with PvP. The tools are on the table, but applying learned theory (tutorial) in practice is so hard that many chose one to even try.
Yes, EVE is hard and it should be hard - it's not tetris. A certain level of player effort is required to be able to play. Just lower the bar a little.
An idea: brodcasting a clear information that a sisi server is available to try everything you want would also be a good idea...
Other people tell the new player about this in the Rookie Chat or the Help Chat? CCP's community team can put more effort into displaying and advertising these kinds of corps in their Newbie Help thingy, like they used to a couple of months back with this Dev Blog. He could also just fly around and try PVP on their own, get stomped and maybe encounter someone who helps him with more advanced information about PVP and such player academy corps (PAC), like it happened a couple of weeks ago with this ridiculously underskilled Hyperion I believe that died in Placid and where the killer told the Hype newbie pilot a couple of useful things. People could also every now and then advertise for these PACs in starter systems. There could also be more things like Frigate Free For Alls that took place last year in Poinen, I believe, or Noob Swarm, that was in 2012 as a public Rookie ship fleet setting out to cause mayhem and it was great fun, to make people aware of PVP in an inexpensive and fun manner.
That Sisi-Info is also something CCP should market a bit more as it is a really neat tool to test things out which are too expensive on TQ, especially if you participate in a mass-test and then have free SP to allocate at will. There are a lot of things that players can do to foster more PVPand that are a lot better and teach a lot more than any mission setup could.
Station Tab :: Agent Shuffling :: Double Standing Gain
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
155
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Posted - 2015.02.16 05:01:07 -
[35] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:I would support a change to NCPs to make fighting them more about range dictation or sig mechanics, rather than just hp pinatas with resist holes.
At a minimum, we'll need dual prop frigate NPCs that warp disrupt you and sit at +20km. Short range ones with higher resists that try to scram, neut or web you.
Having to use multiple kinds of weapon platforms implies group content.
Don't fly many mission do you?
With the exception of the dual prop mods there are numerous missions that have many of these types of ships.
There are even spawns in some level 4's that have battleships with neuts, and to make them that much easier to handle they have sensor damps, tracking disruption is common with some NPC as well. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
930
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Posted - 2015.02.16 06:21:44 -
[36] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:PvE should require fits that would also work for PvP. Better AI would fix this.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
A Nest of Vipers
124
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:00:48 -
[37] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:PvE should require fits that would also work for PvP. Better AI would fix this.
Obviously. There would be no point in scrambling rats if they wouldnGÇÖt try to warp out  . |
Anthar Thebess
866
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:17:37 -
[38] - Quote
Sorry but i disagree with you.
PVE content must be different than PVP.
Simply because :
PVE is Player versus environment
PVP is Player versus Player
If you want more PVP don't search it in local rats , make few jumps and find real players.
I know you only want that people should use PVP fits ... rats should behave like other players - but this is not the way.
How long it will take for someone to ask - i want rat kill mails.
People will quickly adapt and you will soon find tons of PVP fits for PVE totally worthless in real PVP situation.
Look what happened to burner missions.
Idea grate , but we already have "I win" fits posted everywhere - and real PVP is different.
PVP is not single , or group of rats that always behave the same way , spawn in the same way, and act the same way.
Sorry but in real PVP all those burners should simply warp off when they see person that is in ship simply countering theirs.
Yes those burners provide some content , are more demanding , give tons of LOL's when someone DC , but still this is just PVE content.
Drop all those "burner" fits and players to a real combat situation , and they will die to a 4mil ship, but skilled pilot.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
A Nest of Vipers
124
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:30:33 -
[39] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Sorry but i disagree with you.
PVE content must be different than PVP.
Simply because :
PVE is Player versus environment
PVP is Player versus Player
If you want more PVP don't search it in local rats , make few jumps and find real players.
I know you only want that people should use PVP fits ... rats should behave like other players - but this is not the way.
How long it will take for someone to ask - i want rat kill mails.
People will quickly adapt and you will soon find tons of PVP fits for PVE totally worthless in real PVP situation.
Look what happened to burner missions.
Idea grate , but we already have "I win" fits posted everywhere - and real PVP is different.
PVP is not single , or group of rats that always behave the same way , spawn in the same way, and act the same way.
Sorry but in real PVP all those burners should simply warp off when they see person that is in ship simply countering theirs.
Yes those burners provide some content , are more demanding , give tons of LOL's when someone DC , but still this is just PVE content.
Drop all those "burner" fits and players to a real combat situation , and they will die to a 4mil ship, but skilled pilot.
Hmm I think that discussion got a little sidetracked.
1) I didn't say that all PvE must be like that (i can't imagine Incursions or WH Sleepers to work like that) - just some PvE to help to transition form PvE to PvP.
2) I wanted to ensure that a PvE player can TRY (that does not mean succed) to fight a ganker.
Thats it. There is no more to it. I don't think it shoud be all PvP or that PvE guys shoud somehow be forced to PvP. Just let them taste the damn thing . |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
110
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:43:54 -
[40] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:Sorry but i disagree with you.
PVE content must be different than PVP.
Simply because :
PVE is Player versus environment
PVP is Player versus Player
If you want more PVP don't search it in local rats , make few jumps and find real players.
I know you only want that people should use PVP fits ... rats should behave like other players - but this is not the way.
How long it will take for someone to ask - i want rat kill mails.
People will quickly adapt and you will soon find tons of PVP fits for PVE totally worthless in real PVP situation.
Look what happened to burner missions.
Idea grate , but we already have "I win" fits posted everywhere - and real PVP is different.
PVP is not single , or group of rats that always behave the same way , spawn in the same way, and act the same way.
Sorry but in real PVP all those burners should simply warp off when they see person that is in ship simply countering theirs.
Yes those burners provide some content , are more demanding , give tons of LOL's when someone DC , but still this is just PVE content.
Drop all those "burner" fits and players to a real combat situation , and they will die to a 4mil ship, but skilled pilot.
Hmm I think that discussion got a little sidetracked. 1) I didn't say that all PvE must be like that (i can't imagine Incursions or WH Sleepers to work like that) - just some PvE to help to transition form PvE to PvP. 2) I wanted to ensure that a PvE player can TRY (that does not mean succed) to fight a ganker. Thats it. There is no more to it. I don't think it shoud be all PvP or that PvE guys shoud somehow be forced to PvP. Just let them taste the damn thing .
If we are going to look at npc AI they should start with Concord going after the pirates. But we know your version of npc AI is to only hinder pve players.
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