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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
tab one Gallente Trade Union Moon Warriors 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:11:00 - [1] - Quote I am very upset about the new PI setup... there is no way i can make PI cost effective... I do PI in nul sec and between the taxes and the shipping costs to get my T2 and T3 products out i will be loosing millions of isk's to continue
Omega Flames Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 14	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:15:00 - [2] - Quote friendly warning, your thread is about to be locked as CCP are locking all threads concerning PI taxes / POCO except the ONLY one where the OP agreed with the change.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:17:00 - [3] - Quote Your thread will be locked soon and you will be directed to a thread from a well known null sec alliance member. There your fears and concerns will be dismissed and sometimes laughed at. CCP would like to remind you to pay your taxes and happy holidays.
tab one Gallente Trade Union Moon Warriors 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:20:00 - [4] - Quote at least 2 ppl got to see it
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:23:00 - [5] - Quote tab one wrote: at least 2 ppl got to see it I sympathize with you. This is how I think it went down: CCP decides to shank high sec PI but knows if that is all they do people will unsub in droves SO They play it smart. They work on some things people have been BEGGING for years for and everyone glosses over the gutting of PI.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:25:00 - [6] - Quote Oh, and here is the thread CCP will direct you to. You can voice your opinions but prepared to be shutdown unless you have nice things to say about PI changes.
tab one Gallente Trade Union Moon Warriors 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:36:00 - [7] - Quote Ill just shut my PI planets down for a while... figure if they get enough ppl doing that there wont be any game to play... hard to build stuff if u have no supplies ... just sucks that ive spent a lot of time and isk training my PI skills
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 12	Posted - 2011.12.01 16:44:00 - [8] - Quote Welcome to the club bro
Dr Mercy Doctrine. FEARLESS. 46	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:03:00 - [9] - Quote tab one wrote: I am very upset about the new PI setup... there is no way i can make PI cost effective... I do PI in nul sec and between the taxes and the shipping costs to get my T2 and T3 products out i will be loosing millions of isk's to continue My advice would be not to sell them yet. Prices should come up as people exit the market (i.e. stop producing these underpriced items). Of course, you may not have the capital to withstand the continued running costs. At which point you'll have to let the factories and extractors stop until such time as you can make a profit again. Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Teuna OTH2 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:28:00 - [10] - Quote The new costs associated with PI in HS is total BS. I really do not even know why they decided to go down this route.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:31:00 - [11] - Quote My guess? Too many subs.
Dr Mercy Doctrine. FEARLESS. 47	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:35:00 - [12] - Quote Teuna wrote: The new costs associated with PI in HS is total BS. I really do not even know why they decided to go down this route. If Highsec PI was both the safest AND the cheapest option - why would anyone do PI anywhere else? Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:45:00 - [13] - Quote I, personally, am fine with low/null sec being more profitable. I just don't want high sec made LESS profitable. Keep your POCOs (and their adjustable tax rates). They encourage pvp and player interaction I guess. Just don't lower my PI profits in high sec. To sum it up: +1 non-empire space and -1 empire = BAD +1 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = GOOD Hell even, +2 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = GOOD
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 211	Posted - 2011.12.01 17:55:00 - [14] - Quote Then stop PI, there will be more for me
agrajag119 GeoCorp. Gentlemen's Agreement 3	Posted - 2011.12.01 19:09:00 - [15] - Quote PI may not be profitable at current prices, thats by design. Sounds screwy, I know. Guess what though, there is no way for the eve economy to function without PI goods. So once all the people get adjusted to what the new costs per unit are, guess what is going to happen to the price of PI goods? Yup, thats right kids, they'll go up Once they go up, guess what ... you'll be making isk again. Whether or not that is as much as you made before per unit remains to be seen. I'd bet the overall profit will stay pretty close to what it was before.
Cygnet Lythanea World Welfare Works Association 15	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:37:00 - [16] - Quote The problem is that eventually you reach a point where the players are no longer willing to pay the price and find lower cost alternatives. Also, the actual rate they tax at is flexible, so be prepared for the taxes to increase with the prices. And, yes, we're all counting down till CCP locks the thread, just like they do every time it's a Damage Control party. Let me try to speed it up: BoB T20 goons BPOs POCO NeX aurum monocle and a partridge in a pear tree!
Dr Mercy Doctrine. FEARLESS. 47	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:19:00 - [17] - Quote Jim Hooknose wrote: I, personally, am fine with low/null sec being more profitable. I just don't want high sec made LESS profitable. Keep your POCOs (and their adjustable tax rates). They encourage pvp and player interaction I guess. Just don't lower my PI profits in high sec. To sum it up: +1 non-empire space and -1 empire = BAD +1 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = GOOD Hell even, +2 non-empire space and no adjustment to empire = GOOD Yeah, it's ** when your chosen isk making activity gets nerfed in EVE. We need it to pay for the ** we want to buy and we don't want less of it! However, I have a question. Say they kept Highsec PI taxes at 5% as they were before - how would anyone with a POCO in lowsec use it to entice people out there? Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
PipBrown Semper Invicta. Inception Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:42:00 - [18] - Quote I don't understand the fuss from player unhappy with the changes to PI taxes. Why can they just increase the price of the product to offset any incurred taxes.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:51:00 - [19] - Quote Dr Mercy wrote: However, I have a question. Say they kept Highsec PI taxes at 5% as they were before - how would anyone with a POCO in lowsec use it to entice people out there? In low sec you can prevent all taxes by putting a POCO up. 0% is better than 5%. Plus a POCO would keep players from accessing the planet unless you permit them to. IIRC the number of players extracting on a planet affects the yield from the ECUs. Less players extracting = more yield for the few who are extracting. Oh, and meeting us halfway with something like 7.5% would be a step in the right direction. Better than the current replies of "Working as intended!" that we have heard so far.
Dr Mercy Doctrine. FEARLESS. 48	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:03:00 - [20] - Quote Jim Hooknose wrote: Dr Mercy wrote: However, I have a question. Say they kept Highsec PI taxes at 5% as they were before - how would anyone with a POCO in lowsec use it to entice people out there? In low sec you can prevent all taxes by putting a POCO up. 0% is better than 5%. Plus a POCO would keep players from accessing the planet unless you permit them to. IIRC the number of players extracting on a planet affects the yield from the ECUs. Less players extracting = more yield for the few who are extracting. Oh, and meeting us halfway with something like 7.5% would be a step in the right direction. Better than the current replies of "Working as intended!" that we have heard so far. Hmm, so in your view lowsec POCOs can't realistically be used to generate income via third parties using the planets for PI - only for corps/alliances to undercut highsec CO taxes? A margin of only 5% doesn't sound a particularly large incentive for these kinds of players to invest in the POCO structures (100 mil) and operate under the risk present in lowsec. A mere 5% premium for operating in the safety of highsec? When I look at it from this point of view 10% doesn't even seem like a large enough margin either! Make isk with PI: http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?1207-What-to-do-PI-Processor-only-planets
Broomhilde Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 03:05:00 - [21] - Quote I'm done with CCP, the taxes are unreasonable. Sure I can go out and gouge customers by charging more for my resources, but frankly I'm tired of CCP and their bullshyt. Bye.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.12.02 03:23:00 - [22] - Quote Dr Mercy wrote: Hmm, so in your view lowsec POCOs can't realistically be used to generate income via third parties using the planets for PI - only for corps/alliances to undercut highsec CO taxes? A margin of only 5% doesn't sound a particularly large incentive for these kinds of players to invest in the POCO structures (100 mil) and operate under the risk present in lowsec. A mere 5% premium for operating in the safety of highsec? When I look at it from this point of view 10% doesn't even seem like a large enough margin either! Alright, then add convenience bonuses to the POCOs. No messages to wait x number of seconds when you use a POCO. Make them cheaper in ISK and slightly cheaper in LP. Lord knows the things will get blown up left and right. You forget that if the POCO owners place even a small tax on the export/imports they will have a passive way to generate corp funds. Placed in the right spot the POCO could make a sizable amount of ISK, plus saving the owner's tax fees. Which is great, that aspect of the PI change is fine. It's the completely wrecking highsec PI taxes that I mind.
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 14	Posted - 2011.12.02 14:23:00 - [23] - Quote PipBrown wrote: I don't understand the fuss from player unhappy with the changes to PI taxes. Why can't they just increase the price of the product to offset any incurred taxes. Because some people won't have to pay taxes at all when they have POCOs, so anyone making PI in highsec is screwed and needs to find something else to do.
Lauren Hellfury Full Pocket Aggro In Vitro. 35	Posted - 2011.12.02 14:37:00 - [24] - Quote You know what I just realised? This is the exact same **** as T2 BPOs. Sure, those in low/null with their own POCOs and 0% tax can make more Isk with PI. But they had to spend a nice chunk in order to do so and also have to defend that chunk or replace it periodically. If the market demand for a given PI product is lower than the supply of that product coming from 0% POCO taxed sources then they can set the price and keep those in high-sec or using interbus COs out of the market. Price too low? Well, you'd have struggled to move it anyway so feel smug that you worked it out before spending on it. You did check prices before jumping in right? If the market demand for a given PI product is higher than the supply of that product coming from high-sec/interbus CO sources then it is those people that set the price. Price too low? Blame people that can't add up or realise that the profit that you want isn't the profit that people are happy to give you.
ZapStar253 Solarwind GP 1	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:43:00 - [25] - Quote Maybe CCP needs more PI targets for DUST..so a forced migration to Low Sec?
Vigdis Thorisdottir Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2011.12.04 02:15:00 - [26] - Quote Just relax. PI prices will adjust to reflect the price of doing business in highsec because that is where most PI will continue to be done. Your profits will be fine. Manufacturers in lowsec and null will just make more profit. That is all.
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 16	Posted - 2011.12.04 03:13:00 - [27] - Quote Buyers orders in Jita are below 1.35M for 4 of the P4. Why would I pay 135k of taxes ? Organic Mortar Applicators -> 1.025M, taxes should be 102.5k Even more, I have to pay SCC taxes aswell... Can't make profit. Period. I get more profit with mining, much more, even in highsec.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 437	Posted - 2011.12.04 03:28:00 - [28] - Quote Esunisen wrote: Buyers orders in Jita are below 1.35M for 4 of the P4. Why would I pay 135k of taxes ? And last summer you paid 50k ISK tariff on those P4s and they were only selling for 500k to 750k. So your net per item went up (and your profit margin probably also went up a bit due to increased demand for P4s).
Jarnis McPieksu Aliastra Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2011.12.04 04:51:00 - [29] - Quote Esunisen wrote: Buyers orders in Jita are below 1.35M for 4 of the P4. Why would I pay 135k of taxes ? Organic Mortar Applicators -> 1.025M, taxes should be 102.5k Even more, I have to pay SCC taxes aswell... Can't make profit. Period. I get more profit with mining, much more, even in highsec. If you see something on the market that, by your calculation, is made at a loss, instead of whining you are supposed to buy it and relist at a price where producer makes a profit. The prices are still moving. Builders that use PI goods are naturally resisting rising prices but as long as PI builders refuse to sell at a loss, the prices will rise. Econ 101. And low/null manufacturing is so small percentage of PI that high sec PI makers will dictate the final price. Heck, if you are unhappy with the price, just keep stockpiling. The price will go up. Then you sell them all in one go when the price readjusts to a level you find reasonable. I'm myself doing exactly that with some other goods.
electrostatus Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2011.12.04 06:52:00 - [30] - Quote You'd be surprised how many people will sell at a loss. PI Profit Calculator: calculates your profits and taxes of any PI product depending on how you built them!

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