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Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:17:00 - [1] Just a question to the Amarr-skilled out there. Would it be feasible to train up Amarr cruisers and mount a Maller with Projectiles (chiefly, AC's)? I've been working on Minmatar ships and projectiles for a while now, have decent gunnery - and am wondering if I could make a good legit setup armor tanking (obviously) a Maller and slapping five medium AC's on it. Sorry if this has been brought up, did a cursory search and didn't come up with anything - but could have just overlooked it. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:21:00 - [2] Are you ghey?
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:22:00 - [3] Originally by: Tassi Are you ghey? Annnnd, anyone old enough to legally drive care to answer? ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:22:00 - [4] i believe people do use ac's on their mallers due to the lack of cap use which would help their tanking?
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:23:00 - [5] Originally by: solidshot i believe people do use ac's on their mallers due to the lack of cap use which would help their tanking? Yeah, that's what I'm considering it for. Just wondering if anyone in the forum here has personally had any success with it, or has a corp mate they saw try it, and all that. ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:24:00 - [6] It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw.
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Tassi It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw. It gives a laser capacitor use bonus. And an armor resist bonus. No damage bonus at all. Since it only gives bonus to armor, and cap use - and not to laser turret damage or anything - why is it such a big deal to use projectiles instead? Is it just that the base DPS on projectiles is too low? (even with skills factored in)? ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:30:00 - [8] Since maller have no bonus on laser dammage u can use what u preffer. I have no experience with projectiles, but if u can set a decent fit i see no reason you shouldnt use it. The only think ca could be a problem is that autocannon are extremelly close range and usually they should work better with faster ships. Maller maybe ha to much mass.
solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:31:00 - [9] dps on arties is lousy, but ac's especially t2's aren't to bad
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Ozawi Originally by: Tassi It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw. It gives a laser capacitor use bonus. And an armor resist bonus. No damage bonus at all. Since it only gives bonus to armor, and cap use - and not to laser turret damage or anything - why is it such a big deal to use projectiles instead? Is it just that the base DPS on projectiles is too low? (even with skills factored in)? If you go full gank it with lasers you will get about 300 dps. If you fit a 1600 plate + small pulses you will achieve 150dps but 5 times the surviveability. Not much to think about it, gank it if you are in groups. Plate it when solo or when you are a bait.
Ozawi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Heelay Ashrum Since maller have no bonus on laser dammage u can use what u preffer. I have no experience with projectiles, but if u can set a decent fit i see no reason you shouldnt use it. The only think ca could be a problem is that autocannon are extremelly close range and usually they should work better with faster ships. Maller maybe ha to much mass. Yeah - but close range with Maller's tanking bonus seems like a good fit. Either a good T2 AB or an MWD to get in close, then hit with (if I can fit them) 5 AC's, meanwhile having miles of CAP for nothing else other than tanking. That's the idea anyway. ------------------------------------------------ This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios! -I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM
Hapexamendios IV	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:36:00 - [12] It works well for a buddy of mine. Doit.
Instagib Amarr Reykjavik University Corpus Maximus	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:55:00 - [13] It semi works because Barrage does 95.5%* more base damage on base (or omni restisted) armor than Scorch and Hail does 68.4% over Conflag on omni/base resisted armor. Something that for example the 11.3%* difference between Heavy Pulse and 425mm AC can never make up for. That alone is good enough reason to use ACs on Maller sadly, the much lower fittings, no cap usage, access to even more damage types, etc are all just added bonus. : (12.9+10.75)/(18.4+4.65) = 1.955... : (24.9+6.75)/(16.4+14.65) = 1.683... **: (3.6/5.25)/(2.31/3.75) = 1.113...
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:06:00 - [14] Projectiles should NEVER be used on Amarr ships. They do work pretty damn well though, often better than lasers. Fear is the mind-killer.
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:20:00 - [15] projectiles should kill amarr, not help amarr.. their using our weapons aganist us.. tis made me sad --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Vizgoth	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:22:00 - [16] Auto Cannons work great on Apocs, Mallers, and Punishers since neither ship has any damage or range or RoF bonuses for lasers. Plus you get the bonus of being able to do all damage types. This is especially helpful for ratting against say Angels or even helpful in PVP if you are the tank. So if you want to do it, do it. Make sure you get tech II guns and able to use tech II gyrostabs.
Cuebick Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:33:00 - [17] On some amarr ships you are "allowed" (laser cap bonus) to use projectiles. Using em/thermal damage in a cruiser does not give you alot of damage (unless the ship has a laser dmg/rof bonus then you can forget about using proj). These ships can use projectile and do a lot more good: Punisher, Maller and Prophecy. No not the Apocalypse because you need atleast some damage bonus and tracking/rof to make it efficient.
Vizgoth	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Cuebick On some amarr ships you are "allowed" (laser cap bonus) to use projectiles. Using em/thermal damage in a cruiser does not give you alot of damage (unless the ship has a laser dmg/rof bonus then you can forget about using proj). These ships can use projectile and do a lot more good: Punisher, Maller and Prophecy. No not the Apocalypse because you need atleast some damage bonus and tracking/rof to make it efficient. I use AutoCannons with Fusion Ammo fine on my Apoc to rat angels. With the help of TechII Valkyries even named/Faction spawns die without too much trouble. Granted its not as efficient as a Raven or pretty much any other BS's, but it does the job and then I can go back to mining.
AsfALT	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:56:00 - [19] Edited by: AsfALT on 05/10/2006 16:56:51 I had a good proph setup with autos. It was a doubleplated small t2 rep tank and 2 gyros . If u want a godly cruiser tank.. fit this (req is eng5 and electronics5): HIGH-SLOTS : - 5Dual 180mm AutoCannon I [117xPhased Plasma M] MED-SLOTS : - Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I - 10MN Afterburner I - Warp Disruptor I LOW-SLOTS : - 3Medium Armor Repairer II - 2*Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I - Damage Control I Powergrid : 1125.0 / 1125.0 MW CPU : 330.0 / 350.0 tf Capacitor (regen) : 1380.0 Energy (344.0sec) Armor HP : 1800.0 Armor EM : 79.4 % Armor Explo : 59.48 % Armor Kinetic : 62.01 % Armor Thermal : 67.08 % 65.0 DPS If u have advanced weapon upgrades i think u can put a small nos.
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:02:00 - [20] Edited by: Blind Man on 05/10/2006 17:02:04 3 medium reps go for medium rep, 1600 plate, kin/therm/expl hardeners, eanm II(edit: or damage control). whatever mids and ac in high
Commander Thrawn Tarnak inc.	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:08:00 - [21] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 05/10/2006 17:08:18 Originally by: Tassi Originally by: Ozawi Originally by: Tassi It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw. It gives a laser capacitor use bonus. And an armor resist bonus. No damage bonus at all. Since it only gives bonus to armor, and cap use - and not to laser turret damage or anything - why is it such a big deal to use projectiles instead? Is it just that the base DPS on projectiles is too low? (even with skills factored in)? If you go full gank it with lasers you will get about 300 dps. If you fit a 1600 plate + small pulses you will achieve 150dps but 5 times the surviveability. Not much to think about it, gank it if you are in groups. Plate it when solo or when you are a bait. how about the fact that you can fit 425 AC and a decent tank and cannot fit heavies pulse and a decent tank. is that reason enough for you
AsfALT	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Commander Thrawn ... This one i fount to be a good belt pirate ship. Considering that the maller is slower then almost any other cruiser, speed it's not it's strong point so an ab is not necesary. HIGH-SLOTS : - 5425mm AutoCannon I [105xPhased Plasma M] - [ 8 \| 15] Small Nosferatu I MED-SLOTS : - 2X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator - [ 1 \| 25] J5b Phased Prototype Warp Inhibitor I LOW-SLOTS : - 2*Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I - Damage Control I - Medium Armor Repairer II - 800mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I - Gyrostabilizer I Armor HP : 3672.0 Armor EM : 79.4 % Armor Explo : 59.48 % Armor Kinetic : 62.01 % Armor Thermal : 67.08 % It's ok because many targets when they see u enter belt if u don't scram them in a couple of sec they warp out... many times in another belt where if u follow them u mostly land on top of them.
Mazare Mircea Gallente Afterlife inc	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Tassi It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw. I suggest you read up on that bonus, it's a cap usage bonus, just like the ones the Prophecy, Punisher, Apocalypse have. Then start reading of a bleeder-Punisher setup. Then take a moment and try thinking ... it's hard, it will hurt at first, but you may end up with some ... results. :) ----- Do androids dream of electric sheep ?
Martinez Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:34:00 - [24] this one of the main problems with amarr, yes the maller is a better ship with projectiles on.
Buraken v2 Amarr Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Tassi Are you ghey? Dunno about him but you must be. Projectile weapons are very viably on: Punisher Maller Prophecy Apocalypse have fun. (Personaly i would only use projectiles on Punisher & Maller, prolly not on the others) Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:42:00 - [26] EAN Is are useless. Use active hardeners/DC or pay for EAN IIs.
Instagib Amarr Reykjavik University Corpus Maximus	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:44:00 - [27] Originally by: Tassi It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw. Ugh, if there is anything worse than ACs Mallers then it's small gun Maller.. AC Grid/Fitting: 9001.25 = 1125 5x220mm ACs II (5110.9 = 495) 1125-495 = 630pg left, enough for some ugly 1600mm fit Damage:* Base: 51.981.251.151.1/3.38/.9/.8 =~ 6.43260 1x DM: 1.1/.895 =~ 1.22905 2x DM: 1.22905(1+.1.8708860)/(1-.105.8708860) =~ 1.47056 3x DM: 1.47056(1+.1.5705831)/(1-.105.5705831) =~ 1.6535 With Barrage: 0x DM: 6.4326022 =~ 141.5dps (equal to ~264.3dps Scorch damage) 1x DM: 1.229056.4326022 =~ 173.9dps (equal to ~324.8dps Scorch damage) 2x DM: 1.470566.4326022 =~ 208.1dps (equal to ~388.6dps Scorch damage) 3x DM: 1.65356.4326022 =~ 234.0dps (equal to ~437.0dps Scorch damage) Raw dps req. deliver equal damage on base- or omni-resisted armor (12.9+10.75)/(18.4+4.65) =~ 1.867347 With Hail: 0x DM: 6.4326030 =~ 193.0dps (equal to ~325.0dps Conflag damage) 1x DM: 1.229056.4326030 =~ 237.2dps (equal to ~399.4dps Conflag damage) 2x DM: 1.470566.4326030 =~ 283.8dps (equal to ~477.9dps Conflag damage) 3x DM: 1.65356.4326030 =~ 319.1dps (equal to ~537.3dps Conflag damage) Raw dps req. deliver equal damage on base- or omni-resisted armor (24.9+6.75)/(16.4+14.65) =~ 1.683871 And you want to use some small guns? Say.. 5x Medium Pulse: 5153.61.251.151.1/3.5/.9/.8 =~ 169.4dps or equal to (equal to 90.7dps Barrage damage) Raw dps req. deliver equal damage on base- or omni-resisted armor (18.4+4.65)/(12.9+10*.75) =~ 0.535519 On top of arsecrap range.. well then fine by me...
Ardan Minmatar The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:50:00 - [28] 1. Yes it can be done. 2. Yes it works. 3. Yes I have done it myself. 4. A Ruppie does more damage with 4 guns than the maller does with 5(+5% damage bonus per lvl and +5% ROF per lvl of Minmatar cruiser. Plus you get 2 missile launchers. So if your Minmatar cruiser skill is at lvl 5, you will do approximately the same damage with 4 turrets, as you would do with 6 and no bonus. Plus you have the 2 missile launchers and a somewhat faster ship. "Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." Colligula
AsfALT	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:51:00 - [29] Edited by: AsfALT on 05/10/2006 17:55:06 The main advantag is the versatility and the no cap usage. The autos are (as shown in a post above) as good or better as lasers on armor, but they use no cap. The situation changes a bit when u talk about shield tanked ships where lasers will come ontop. So it also depends on what u are fighting. If u will fight only or mostly armor tankers then the autos are better, else use lasers.
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Tassi It's an amarr ship, guess why it has the laser bonus on it? To use lasers on it? AC's will give you what, 50 dps? 1600 plate + medium pulse/beams t2's ftw. LOL with medium pulse or beam you are wasting your ship bonus the same way like fitting it with Autocannons. I think a Maller with 5 dual 180 II will have a higher dps than a maller with small tech II lasers. And you have still much better damage type than the crappy em ****.

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