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Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9833	Posted - 2015.02.20 03:53:57 - [61] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Wait, did he just... Basically say the spice must flow? I dunno about you guys, but I interpreted Jump Fatigue as a throttle on gameplay as we knew it, including gate use. I saw supercap blobs happening, with their power more localized but also much more secure. And reluctant to go very far. I lacked (lack) the perspective to say anything about what would happen regarding sov changes, other than warfare being like a steamroller, but looking back... how was this supposed to turn out any way other than entrenching everyone Isn't it better to err on the side of keeping things kill-y I think it is, and I (and many others) said as much when the change was announced. I knew just as soon as I saw people proclaiming "this is great, this will really open things up" that it was going to fail. Again I wasn't the only one, but I absolute warned that this change would change the "Blue Donut" into a BLUE BRICK of established null groups holding the parts of null nearest empire (and holding the HELL out of it now that super caps can't go far) while continuing to rent out the 'far reaches' that now can only be reached by going through 'established group space'. TL;DR, people hear of a change, and they are so emotionally blinded by their dislike of the status quo that they don't understand that they are about to get screwed because the 'change' they are celebrating is about to make things WORSE lol. This change didn't open up anything, all it did was disappoint those who thought they'd have an opening while making the game less fun for the people already out in null.
Michael Ruckert Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando 280	Posted - 2015.02.20 04:14:56 - [62] - Quote Cue new EVE theme song (sung to the "Green Acres" theme music) Hi-sec is the place to be Ice mining is the life for me 'roids spreading out so far and wide Keep Null-sec, just give me that care bear life "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29957	Posted - 2015.02.20 04:24:09 - [63] - Quote It seems to have killed the lag fests. I've experienced less of those since coming out to null, than I did before. That's another thing I saw happening, which seemed like a great time to come out. I haven't broken out the caps yet, but that is one thing I look forward to. Totally lucked out in meeting the right people to get my first choice of org for capital gameplay in k-space. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22499	Posted - 2015.02.20 04:43:07 - [64] - Quote Dear Goon, Ask your own "org" about the lack of gudfites. Posting in GD to ask other people is a lot like how your leadership is always looking externally to solve a problem of their own invention. You are the mercury in our tuna. And, grr.. you. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6283	Posted - 2015.02.20 05:32:57 - [65] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Wait, did he just... Basically say the spice must flow? I dunno about you guys, but I interpreted Jump Fatigue as a throttle on gameplay as we knew it, including gate use. I saw supercap blobs happening, with their power more localized but also much more secure. And reluctant to go very far. I lacked (lack) the perspective to say anything about what would happen regarding sov changes, other than warfare being like a steamroller, but looking back... how was this supposed to turn out any way other than entrenching everyone Isn't it better to err on the side of keeping things kill-y I like you. You're not like other goons. Next time I roam Pure Blind in a SB I won't bomb you. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29960	Posted - 2015.02.20 05:58:09 - [66] - Quote Surely, EVE-O is neutral ground enough that you wouldn't say such things, even if only to placate me. Sibyyl. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22501	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:15:20 - [67] - Quote I am probably just being facetious with my second favorite goon (you). The jump changes lets the establishment shed off scattered systems they couldn't hold onto and dig their heels in, functionally changing very little. This is likely not quite what CCP was trying to accomplish, while alienating some of their senior-most player base (the cap pilots). What none of us seem to be able to come up with is a solution that would produce more B-R5RBs (dangerous activity) amongst groups who have no financial reason to take any risk. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29961	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:27:19 - [68] - Quote Your first favorite Goon, does the name start with a C and rhyme with Nommissar? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22503	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:30:02 - [69] - Quote Never not Motoko. You guessed correctly. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Serene Repose 2274	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:40:51 - [70] - Quote I saw jump fatigue as an attempt to reign in promiscuous use of game mechanics that was quickly eclipsing everything all at once. The component that's constantly overlooked, a$ once you pa$$ a few thre$hold$ $ome thing$ become incon$equential to you...if you catch my DRIFT....is the idea of cost itself being a sort of governing factor to certain activities. From my humble corner cap ships, hot dropping, weeklong thousand ship fleet fights with no change in the map at ALL were becoming as common as duels in Hek....every fifteen seconds. The affordability hurdle being no hurdle at all turned what were intended to be epic events with map altering outcomes into nothing more than spars. It became too EA$Y. So...I have to admit, they came up with a rather ingenious way to give it some perspective and proportion without altering the underlying structure too heavily. Of course, those who were rolling in the mud having a gay old time, figuring life will be fine from here to kingdom come, being a pig in this mudhole is a young boyz dream...naturally they'll be butthurt over it! Naturally they'll squeal like stuck....where does bacon come from again? And, so they did. However. The concept of deploying force has fundamentally changed. For the good? That'll be determined by movement of the blue donut...after a while. If at all. I'll speculate on that. I think the motivations for achievement in EVE are different. I think the people who think in terms of geopolitics have been replaced with people who think in terms of ranged conflict. By that I mean, there's a universe's difference between taking and holding. Our new breed....well...it remains to be seen if they're cut rate Napoleons, or digital Alexander the Greats. Puzzle that one out with a copy of Sun Tzu in your lap....this is, if you HAVE one. TYVM. Have a nice day! Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Liafcipe9000 Critically Preposterous 33616	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:15:15 - [71] - Quote Jane Shapperd wrote: if you didn't get a fight since the fatigue expansion , you obviously in the wrong Alliance well... goons. amirite? Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat. Critically Preposterous is recruiting!
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 512	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:22:58 - [72] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Dear Goon, Ask your own "org" about the lack of gudfites. Posting in GD to ask other people is a lot like how your leadership is always looking externally to solve a problem of their own invention. You are the mercury in our tuna. And, grr.. you. Grrr. None of the null players is doing much right now as they wait for the Sov announcement. Also, if you think we're the problem, who owns the entire south of the map and is renting it out?
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22503	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:09:51 - [73] - Quote kJ, I agree with your assessment here. knobber Jobbler wrote: All they saw was the large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull. I doubt you'll ever get a B-R ever again, it takes days to move a capital force across the map now and those entities which provided the medium scale fights and the bush wars no longer deploy due to the logistical problems of moving doctrines from one part of EVE to another in a carrier. In effect, Pheobe killed off casual players - read: have a job, which is most of us - being able to use carriers as a method of deploying and thus what made up those ~gud fites~ and imaginative doctrines. What happened is that individual cap pilots who invested a large amount of time and resources came out to express their dissatisfaction, and the EVE community did what it does best: point and laugh at people on the wrong end of a CCP game mechanic change. It is as if CCP heard the community and vindicated them by nerfing jumps. Truth is, in theory making everyone jump gates sounds like a good way to introduce more fights. No instant teleportation? Well you have to fight your way to wherever it is you are trying to go. But people don't want to die at a gate in a ship that costs more than their monthly or yearly salaries. Big fights have been too severely disincentivized. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Michael Ruckert Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando 282	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:44:03 - [74] - Quote Want fights? Go find the new boys in town - Drifters. Check their billboard. Or maybe they will find you. Stand by. "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9846	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:10:15 - [75] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: The Eye of Sauron was bad, all would agree that, but the measures taken to nullify it were not thought through in a wider context. They never are, which Is why I love to link that DEV blog I linked earlier, CCP actually thought nerfing anoms would lead to more fights in null despite how we warned them that all it meant was a shift of PVE alts out of null (making for fewer targets for roaming gangs, leading to fewer roaming gangs, which led to fewer escalating fights etc). We told them jump fatigue would lead to less fighting not more. For one reason, it made it hard to move multiple sub caps to new locations, meaning fewer deployments. They didn't listen. Hell, I even bookmarked a very snarky CCP Greyscale response to one of my posts on the issue for future use (that future would have been NOW) and the damn guy ain't even with CCP anymore (lol). CCP is like the real life friend we all have that is a great person who means well and wants the best for you but who is also a bit neurotic and tends to make things worse rather than better when they try to 'help' you
Desimus Maximus Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 171	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:22:02 - [76] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I can't speak for others, but I've been laying low due to the isboxer thing. Slowly testing the specifics of what's allowed, since they haven't outline specifics, which would be useful to multiboxers. G-keys within a client seem to be okay, though, so that's good news. They were clear. Any 3rd party program that facilitates ease of gameplay such as 1-click drives multiple clients is bannable. having multiple clients running and individually controlling, also considered under the multiboxing umbrella, is allowed.
Serene Repose 2275	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:32:04 - [77] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 513	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:37:43 - [78] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP is like the real life friend we all have that is a great person who means well and wants the best for you but who is also a bit neurotic and tends to make things worse rather than better when they try to 'help' you God forbid their vision for their game isn't the same as your vision for ... their game. Of course, you've done nothing all these months if not display your superior knowledge with regard to computer game development. How fond affection creates expertise. (You should take your talents to the world of marriage.) Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29963	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:03:34 - [79] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: individual cap pilots who invested a large amount of time and resources came out to express their dissatisfaction, and the EVE community did what it does best: point and laugh at people on the wrong end of a CCP game mechanic change. So damn true. I also love the fact that Goonwaffe happened in the middle of that thread. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9852	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:28:48 - [80] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP is like the real life friend we all have that is a great person who means well and wants the best for you but who is also a bit neurotic and tends to make things worse rather than better when they try to 'help' you God forbid their vision for their game isn't the same as your vision for ... their game. Of course, you've done nothing all these months if not display your superior knowledge with regard to computer game development. How fond affection creates expertise. (You should take your talents to the world of marriage.) That's a mighty big lump of butt hurt over the fact that you tend to be wrong when we communicate lol. It has nothing to do with my viion of any game, I'm not a game maker. I'm commenting on how CCP does something with a goal in mind and that goal not only doesn't happen, the opposite happens. Or Did I just imagine this from 4 years ago? Quote: Expected consequences GÇóSome alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space GÇóIn the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals GÇóNewer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec GÇóCoalitions will be marginally less stable GÇóAlliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places) Since I'm somehow wrong here, Pok Nibin, please demonstrate to me the parts of the above quote that actually happened.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9853	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:33:40 - [81] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29964	Posted - 2015.02.20 22:44:38 - [82] - Quote Desimus Maximus wrote: Rain6637 wrote: I can't speak for others, but I've been laying low due to the isboxer thing. Slowly testing the specifics of what's allowed, since they haven't outline specifics, which would be useful to multiboxers. G-keys within a client seem to be okay, though, so that's good news. They were clear. Any 3rd party program that facilitates ease of gameplay such as 1-click drives multiple clients is bannable. having multiple clients running and individually controlling, also considered under the multiboxing umbrella, is allowed. There are use cases that were not explicity covered, and the exact nature of the detection methods were not released. There are also fair use cases that may cause false positives. These macro bans are handled automatically at each downtime, detected by the client. In this case, where judgement is meted out by machine, and the consequence is rather severe, it's just prudent to exercise caution and perform thorough testing first on Sisi, then on TQ. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 513	Posted - 2015.02.21 07:10:08 - [83] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Go watch those videos of nullsec ownership shifting. It only got truly bad a year or so ago. Stop trying to win internet points and be objective. Right now its even worse or is reading more difficult than being truculent?
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 513	Posted - 2015.02.21 07:29:09 - [84] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: kJ, I agree with your assessment here. knobber Jobbler wrote: All they saw was the large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull. I doubt you'll ever get a B-R ever again, it takes days to move a capital force across the map now and those entities which provided the medium scale fights and the bush wars no longer deploy due to the logistical problems of moving doctrines from one part of EVE to another in a carrier. In effect, Pheobe killed off casual players - read: have a job, which is most of us - being able to use carriers as a method of deploying and thus what made up those ~gud fites~ and imaginative doctrines. What happened is that individual cap pilots who invested a large amount of time and resources came out to express their dissatisfaction, and the EVE community did what it does best: point and laugh at people on the wrong end of a CCP game mechanic change. It is as if CCP heard the community and vindicated them by nerfing jumps. Truth is, in theory making everyone jump gates sounds like a good way to introduce more fights. No instant teleportation? Well you have to fight your way to wherever it is you are trying to go. But people don't want to die at a gate in a ship that costs more than their monthly or yearly salaries. Big fights have been too severely disincentivized. Yes, there is an intense amount of CCP trying to suck up to the vocal minority and that minority then validating what CCP did. Many in that minority would never set foot in null, probably have never encountered a capital but were motivated, as you say, by laughing at those on the wrong end of a nerf. The EVE community is fickle and its doesn't help that we have a CSM which generally (not all of them) is more interested in being smug and tweeting about how important they are rather than representing the interests of the wider player base. I would completely disagree with the fighting through gates to get where you need to go. Battles at gates happen fairly infrequently, its usually small camps which run away or get stragglers, at least in my experience. Fights happen over timers and the only fights in null right now around those are being deliberately kept at a low intensity and access via wormholes. Rolling holes is now much more relevant.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16131	Posted - 2015.02.21 09:47:22 - [85] - Quote Swanky nutjob wrote: Waiting for sov change announcement. And yes, deploying in anything other than cruiser fleets via wormholes is tedious at best, trail of tears at worst. The phoebe changes didn't allow new entities to magically take up new sov space, didn't force anyone to contract, entrenched existing alliances with a supercap force and generally made EVE dull. People warned of this when it was announced but couldn't be heard over those who had no idea what they were talking about and just want a free pass to get sov space. Space aids needs to be toned down drastically. You mean apart from the CFC abandoning 3 regions and PL literally walking away from their holdings? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16131	Posted - 2015.02.21 11:01:41 - [86] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new. Sorry, I can't hear you over the entertaining campaign I've just enjoyed. It came to an end when N3 decided to deply their full coalition down to Immensea for little ol' us, but that cost them a couple of supercap coathangerings back in Querious. You know. Exactly like it should. So i'm going to call a big fat "working as intended". The major sov holders are, as Endie correctly points out, waiting on the upcoming sov changes because there's not much point in launching major campaigns if there's a strong possibility that anything you gain might be invalidated. Essentially you're complaining about a guy getting open heart surgery, lying on the table with his chest cut open and saying "well he doesn't look much better to me". "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Serene Repose 2282	Posted - 2015.02.21 17:41:05 - [87] - Quote Everything you gain should be invalidated unless you're just out to change the shape of the donut...and color, too, I guess. Jenn aSide wrote: Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new. Yeah, I know. This is all so complicated. How could a girl like me understand it? Thanks for pointing out the obvious once again. You still didn't respond to - it all got too EASY, making it as meaningless as sparring in Hek. Now it's NOT easy. TYVM. Have a nice day! Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Vyl Vit 1061	Posted - 2015.02.21 17:47:53 - [88] - Quote Make it eas...uh....WORK RIGHT again CCP you dummies! Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1425	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:20:18 - [89] - Quote How about players fix it. Are you SURROUNDED by so many blues, the NODE crashes when 5% of them are in local? Yes? IT'S YOU that is the problem No? Carry on waiting for the people above to wake up. There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Commander Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1425	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:20:18 - [90] - Quote How about players fix it. Are you SURROUNDED by so many blues, the NODE crashes when 5% of them are in local? Yes? IT'S YOU that is the problem No? Carry on waiting for the people above to wake up. There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP

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