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Where's a good war when you need one

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Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29927	Posted - 2015.02.17 04:58:43 - [1] - Quote Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Another Posting Alt Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 54	Posted - 2015.02.17 04:59:43 - [2] - Quote Can't.... post..... too.... fatigued....
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7784	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:14:00 - [3] - Quote Quote: Where's a good war when you need one Last time I saw the Rain sisters, they were all hanging out in Todaki. You might find getting out of a starter system more conducive to finding a war. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 19860	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:14:32 - [4] - Quote Nothing stopping you from starting one. Didn't someone insult someone's significant other once and set off some kind of slap fight in null? I think I remember that being a thing. Maybe it wasn't. Pretty sure that happened though.. like 82% sure. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?* Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29927	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:20:41 - [5] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Quote: Where's a good war when you need one Last time I saw the Rain sisters, they were all hanging out in Todaki. You might find getting out of a starter system more conducive to finding a war. Mr Epeen injecting doctrine skills, ordered by GSF l337 high command HQ, what were you doing there? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7785	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:24:33 - [6] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Quote: Where's a good war when you need one Last time I saw the Rain sisters, they were all hanging out in Todaki. You might find getting out of a starter system more conducive to finding a war. Mr Epeen injecting doctrine skills, ordered by GSF l337 high command HQ, what were you doing there? Creating a new character, as it happens. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29927	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:28:37 - [7] - Quote ah. i'm so sorry. no one should have to go through core skills again. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 939	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:29:13 - [8] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? There is thunder on the horizon. I am battening down my hatches. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29927	Posted - 2015.02.17 05:31:46 - [9] - Quote really, though, isn't it comical? prices are dropping, especially caps, no one's doing ****. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Swanky nutjob The Scope Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.02.17 06:32:39 - [10] - Quote Waiting for sov change announcement. And yes, deploying in anything other than cruiser fleets via wormholes is tedious at best, trail of tears at worst. The phoebe changes didn't allow new entities to magically take up new sov space, didn't force anyone to contract, entrenched existing alliances with a supercap force and generally made EVE dull. People warned of this when it was announced but couldn't be heard over those who had no idea what they were talking about and just want a free pass to get sov space. Space aids needs to be toned down drastically.
Jane Shapperd SUPERFLUOUS WANDERLUST Gentlemen's.Club 116	Posted - 2015.02.17 06:52:53 - [11] - Quote if you didn't fight since the fatigue expansion , you obviously in the wrong Alliance
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29929	Posted - 2015.02.17 07:07:16 - [12] - Quote I can't speak for others, but I've been laying low due to the isboxer thing. Slowly testing the specifics of what's allowed, since they haven't outline specifics, which would be useful to multiboxers. G-keys within a client seem to be okay, though, so that's good news. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15009	Posted - 2015.02.17 07:17:25 - [13] - Quote Whats the point? The space is worthless. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29929	Posted - 2015.02.17 08:29:24 - [14] - Quote You'd know more about that than me. I'm a recent nullsec transplant. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1127	Posted - 2015.02.17 08:43:16 - [15] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? It's boring because you made it boring. If you blue 75% of the others because you're scared about your pristine carebear fields making you have to use titan rides to far away places to fight some folks who didn't want to join your bandwagon of carebears then, I guess, you could blame it on jump fatigue but that would be a lie of course.
Dradis Aulmais RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic 691	Posted - 2015.02.17 09:36:36 - [16] - Quote I live in null and have no problems finding someone to die with. CSM 10: Mike Azariah, Sugar Kyle, Chance Ravinne, Jenshae chrioptera Do No Vote For: Tora Bushido, Bobmon
Anthar Thebess 870	Posted - 2015.02.17 10:02:04 - [17] - Quote It is simple businesses now. Goons have no reason to attack N3 N3 have no reason to attack CFC. PL, CFC, N3 ... well every one , farms brave. Big blobs are preparing for Null changes - nothing announced yet, but hell thats why you have CSM members. When they finally hit big blocks will be ready to defend current status quo , from any smaller group that will try to do something. Don't expect any big war.
Serene Repose 2258	Posted - 2015.02.17 13:38:39 - [18] - Quote So, the mighty Goonwaffle can't find a throwdown. Won't wonders never cease? Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Sequester Risalo Significant Others 55	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:06:09 - [19] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I can't speak for others, but I've been laying low due to the isboxer thing. Slowly testing the specifics of what's allowed, since they haven't outline specifics, which would be useful to multiboxers. G-keys within a client seem to be okay, though, so that's good news. In my opinion they have been very explicit. If you wish to be on the safe side just use the software to arrange the windows and play each client individually by hand. Ingame options like assigning drones and fleetwarp are allowed.
Commander Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1420	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:35:03 - [20] - Quote Don't wory Mr Goon line number #3412, CCP are going to inject 'Drifters' into EVE to give you something to do. Honest, I read it in Jita Local! Or you could, you know, leave Goons and make your own alliance to 'Generate Content' for Goons? There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1591	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:37:55 - [21] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? 1- Form a fleet 2- Go **** up someone's space 3- ???????? 4- Profit
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 500	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:38:41 - [22] - Quote Oh goody! A "generate content" idea! Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
Vyl Vit 1059	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:39:59 - [23] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? 1- Form a fleet 2- Go **** up someone's space 3- ???????? 4- Profit Such a nuanced suggestion. Notice how it gets into the many and varied details of game content? Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1591	Posted - 2015.02.17 14:45:10 - [24] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? 1- Form a fleet 2- Go **** up someone's space 3- ???????? 4- Profit Such a nuanced suggestion. Notice how it gets into the many and varied details of game content? OP want a war. If you know of a better way for someone I assume is not in leadership position to start something, then I am all ears. If fighting over timers for "worthless" space stupid? Yes it is but at the end of the day, if you want a war in the sandbox, you have to play with the toys the sandbox contain. OP want a sandcastle kicking contest so I proposed a way to start one. No castle will really gets destroyed but it's that much more close to sand castle kicking than sitting on her arse waiting for people to start a war for her.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6543	Posted - 2015.02.17 17:15:27 - [25] - Quote Just join vince draken in his quest to end our 0.0 dream. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6543	Posted - 2015.02.17 17:16:13 - [26] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? No, but it made me fatigued. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 943	Posted - 2015.02.17 17:20:27 - [27] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: really, though, isn't it comical? prices are dropping, especially caps, no one's doing **. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Pretty much all alliances have more systems than they really, actively use. As to having 7 alliances coming to a brawl, if you shrink them down then there will be your regular neighbour and 5 others new** ones, who have moved into the gaps jumping into it. CSM Ten movement for change. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 111	Posted - 2015.02.17 17:28:21 - [28] - Quote Personally, I expect that the major blocs are waiting until whatever announcements are made at Fanfest (if any) before they commit to any course of action. The smaller powers are waiting for one of the big boys to make a mistake so they can capitilize on it. Ball's in CCP's court at this point. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Ro Fenrios Armilies corporation Skeleton Crew. 48	Posted - 2015.02.17 18:26:29 - [29] - Quote Something sov mechanics something. OP, you guys could have stayed in immensea for a while longer...
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6253	Posted - 2015.02.17 18:43:15 - [30] - Quote All human conflict has been over resources directly ("we want that stuff") or indirectly ("our master race/religion should have that stuff because it's wasted on you mud people/heathens/infidels/people who liked Ginger over Maryanne") As long the resources in the game are infinite, there will be no real conflict. Make the resources finite and make there be a point of "peak ore", "peak moon goo" and after those peaks, "peak salvage" (up the alloy yield of salvaging) and nullsec becomes a bubbling cauldron of PVP - careful "lets not throw dozens of cap ships in because we don't know if we can secure enough resources to replace them" PVP too where the fights over the salvage would be just as nasty as the original fight. (Oh finally a reason to tank a Noctis besides "because of gankers"). Of course, will the people who have batphones to CCP HQ "allow" that? Doubt it. Hey you people "won" nullsec. Enjoy your game. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29939	Posted - 2015.02.17 19:01:20 - [31] - Quote lol. I start a topic just to make smalltalk and all the grr goonies come out of the woodwork. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7797	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:02:00 - [32] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Serene Repose 2261	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:21:21 - [33] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Vyl Vit wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? 1- Form a fleet 2- Go **** up someone's space 3- ???????? 4- Profit Such a nuanced suggestion. Notice how it gets into the many and varied details of game content? OP want a war. If you know of a better way for someone I assume is not in leadership position to start something, then I am all ears. If fighting over timers for "worthless" space stupid? Yes it is but at the end of the day, if you want a war in the sandbox, you have to play with the toys the sandbox contain. OP want a sandcastle kicking contest so I proposed a way to start one. No castle will really gets destroyed but it's that much more close to sand castle kicking than sitting on her arse waiting for people to start a war for her. Spoken like a true "content creator". CCP's favorite? And how! Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Vyl Vit 1059	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:22:45 - [34] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Personally, I expect that the major blocs are waiting until whatever announcements are made at Fanfest (if any) before they commit to any course of action. The smaller powers are waiting for one of the big boys to make a mistake so they can capitilize on it. Ball's in CCP's court at this point. That makes sense. I thought they were just waiting for the new destroyer. Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 501	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:23:53 - [35] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: lol. I start a topic just to make smalltalk and all the grr goonies come out of the woodwork. We're not laughing at you. We're laughing toward you. Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29941	Posted - 2015.02.17 20:59:33 - [36] - Quote Am I the only one around here who enjoys structure bashing? Appearing on structure killmails with carbon copies of perfect Ishtar characters amuses me. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 113	Posted - 2015.02.19 14:06:22 - [37] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Am I the only one around here who enjoys structure bashing? Appearing on structure killmails with carbon copies of perfect Ishtar characters amuses me. Structure bashing is kind of like getting a root canal. It's fun when it starts (mmm, nitrous oxide), miserable in the middle, and a relief when it's done. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15034	Posted - 2015.02.19 16:21:51 - [38] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen They did that to anoms, it didnt go well. problem with null space is that it is mostly worthless while the mechanics require us to hold vast amounts of it. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Shin Jan Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2015.02.19 16:28:47 - [39] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen The Wise decision, would consider many parameters, and notably would be developed slowly, so that "rage and quit" does not occur. At first reduce missions possibilities in High Sec to lvl 1 and 2. Let them mine in High Sec, but reduce greatly the income. Appeal them to come to LowSec with lvl 3-4 missions, and 3 times better Quality/Quantity ore mining. And finally put the best of the best in NullSec.
Lloyd Roses 859	Posted - 2015.02.19 16:41:21 - [40] - Quote Fairly certain there was a reddit post of one legion declaring war on another legion blah... warmachine... blah... last fighting man... blah... never surrender.... blah... Last time I checked, they seemed to be marching at a medium pace at best. I GÖÑ Sleipnir
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 2007	Posted - 2015.02.19 16:45:50 - [41] - Quote If I don't think I'm having enough wars I typically go and start one. I know as nullsec folks the process is a little different for you, but instigating a conflict should still be achievable.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9825	Posted - 2015.02.19 17:04:09 - [42] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Has jump fatigue made everyone gun-shy? No, it just exposed how weak the theroies Jump Fatigue were. The whole idea was basically this : "If you nerf 'big groups' ability to 'teleport' across the map, conflcits will become more regional, 'smaller groups' will be able to chalenge the bigger ones that can't zoom across the map, and 'more conflcits' overall will happen to compensate for the loss of B-R style mega fights". Of course none of that has happened so far, mainly because it NEVER happens like that. FOUR years ago in 2011 wrote: Expected consequences Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec Coalitions will be marginally less stable Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places) The jump fatigue system failed (so far) for the exact same reasons as the above (also why the SOV system has failed and become worse that the pos bashing system it replaced). They didn't take into account actual human nature. They didn't take into account the good aspects of the status quo (which is part of human nature, if some complex thing has some bad outcomes, people focus on that and ignore the good outcomes that come from the same coplex thing). And they didn't take into account the alternatives (in the case of the anom nerf, people just PVE'd in other places like Faction Warfare, High Sec Incursions, wormholes etc). This is not the 1st time that a CCP change meant to 'create more conflict' resulted in less conflict. It's what happens when you apply conventional wisdom to a complex issue. And 'nerf teleporting' did become conventional wisdom, championed even by prominent null sec personalities. Some will say that we don't actually know how it will turn out because CCP hasn't made the promised SOV changes. Well, bookmark this here post, and when THAT doesn't work either (because the problem isn't the systems invovled, the the poor utopian assumptions of the thinking behind the systems that is flawed), we can come back here and talk about it
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9826	Posted - 2015.02.19 17:17:44 - [43] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Another exmaple of not understanidng human nature. The whole idea behind 'finite resources" is to 'drive' people into conflict over resources. The idea is false (and every zombie show is wrong, people wouldn't be fighting each other AND zombies, they'd be combining forces to eliminate zombies and THEN fight each other after the zombie threat is gone...history 101). making resources finite would result in more stagnation as the mega groups filled with people who are already cooperatiing with each other would just cooperate more to keep everyone else away from trhe finite resources. In the same way that the 'new sov syste' that eliminated pos grinding actually greated mega coalations that could bring enough DPS to make short work of the new SOV strcutures like IHUBs. 'Malcanis' Law' don'esn't jsut appy to new players, it applys to ANY attempt to destabalize established groups. This is because people think human nature is greed and conflict when it fact it's CALCULATION (and if cooperating offers better returns than conflict, people will cooperate, even in a video game about conflict).
flakeys Arkham Innovations 2685	Posted - 2015.02.19 17:34:04 - [44] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Nothing stopping you from starting one. Didn't someone insult someone's significant other once and set off some kind of slap fight in null? I think I remember that being a thing. Maybe it wasn't. Pretty sure that happened though.. like 82% sure. Well the word ''mate'' has drawn out at least a war once in eve history , so he could undock and just sart calling people mate on a 20 jump roadtrip. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
flakeys Arkham Innovations 2685	Posted - 2015.02.19 17:35:24 - [45] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Another exmaple of not understanidng human nature. The whole idea behind 'finite resources" is to 'drive' people into conflict over resources. The idea is false (and every zombie show is wrong, people wouldn't be fighting each other AND zombies, they'd be combining forces to eliminate zombies and THEN fight each other after the zombie threat is gone...history 101). Shhht you're ruining my '''walking dead'' marathon .... We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Shin Jan Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2015.02.19 19:19:09 - [46] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Another exmaple of not understanidng human nature. The whole idea behind 'finite resources" is to 'drive' people into conflict over resources. The idea is false (and every zombie show is wrong, people wouldn't be fighting each other AND zombies, they'd be combining forces to eliminate zombies and THEN fight each other after the zombie threat is gone...history 101). making resources finite would result in more stagnation as the mega groups filled with people who are already cooperatiing with each other would just cooperate more to keep everyone else away from trhe finite resources. In the same way that the 'new sov syste' that eliminated pos grinding actually greated mega coalations that could bring enough DPS to make short work of the new SOV strcutures like IHUBs. 'Malcanis' Law' don'esn't jsut appy to new players, it applys to ANY attempt to destabalize established groups. This is because people think human nature is greed and conflict when it fact it's CALCULATION (and if cooperating offers better returns than conflict, people will cooperate, even in a video game about conflict). Ideally, would be to make so that you can't have High ressources or ISK in High Sec. The fun comes from the interaction between the players. Where is it when tons of miners just go afk mining in High Sec, or other players doing missions interacting only with their NPC agent ? The idea is to bring the competition out of safe space to everyone, by forcing low High Sec incomes.
BoBoZoBo Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 517	Posted - 2015.02.19 19:34:05 - [47] - Quote Swanky nutjob wrote: The phoebe changes didn't allow new entities to magically take up new sov space, didn't force anyone to contract, entrenched existing alliances... Nothing ever will make people magically have the balls or ability to actually DO things they talk about. I am hoping to the mighty EVE Gate that there is indeed a master plan and the reason for the effective Icing of EVE is not based on the complaint of a bunch of people who never bothered trying what they were b!thc!ng about. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2015.02.19 19:46:29 - [48] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Another exmaple of not understanidng human nature. The whole idea behind 'finite resources" is to 'drive' people into conflict over resources. The idea is false (and every zombie show is wrong, people wouldn't be fighting each other AND zombies, they'd be combining forces to eliminate zombies and THEN fight each other after the zombie threat is gone...history 101). So bring on the null-sov eating zombies for a while, and then send them away ..
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9830	Posted - 2015.02.19 19:58:52 - [49] - Quote BoBoZoBo wrote: Nothing will ever make people magically have the balls or ability to actually DO things they talk about. Exactly. If a group can't do it under an existing system (where it's doable but hard), NO system is going to work for them, because the problem wasn't the system it was them. People like to demonize things as the causes of their problems rather than understanding their own short comings. This is why after buffed mining ships and anchor rigs some miners are still complaining lol.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2621	Posted - 2015.02.19 20:22:29 - [50] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Exactly. If a group can't do it under an existing system (where it's doable but hard), NO system is going to work for them, Eh, this is demonstrably false. There are groups that have a strong effect in fac war sovereignty that couldn't have an effect on null sec sov. If the null sec sov system were changed to resemble the fac war system, those fac war groups would have a stronger effect. We can even narrow the scope further: There were/are many groups who were less effective (or ineffective entirely) under the old fac war system who are thriving under the new one. If we approach the limiting case were a single pilot can take sov in a system in 10 seconds, then such a system would certainly allow your proposed group to "take" sov. My point is not to suggest such a sov system, but simply to point out that the train of thought that goes "If you can't do it under an existing system, you can't do it under any system" is utterly and completely flawed, wrong in every way.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29955	Posted - 2015.02.19 21:14:43 - [51] - Quote Maybe EVE is getting old. The point about calculation is a good one, and it's accurate for me. I'm in the middle of a high sec PVE test with a Golem, and I'm finding the rate of ISK income from vanilla level 4 missions to be around... I don't know, 75 mil for a couple hours of lazy F1 spam? So it's still true a high sec marauder character can easily earn its own subscription... and then have a couple bil per month left over to blow on bling fits. This is even after a lot of mission values have been slashed by 90%, to a pittance compared to 2012 and earlier. Change hats out to null, and assuming players aren't in totally ** organizations, and ignoring PVE income in null due to risk (compared to high sec), there's not much incentive for PVP. Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't think that's it. I've never been a PVP type of gamer. Structure bashing, yes, that's part of group maintenance, and the narrative is fun. But we're not even seeing that. Then of course there's the departure of Greyscale at a very high profile time in his tenure at CCP. On the Meta Show, Mittens and the personality formerly known as CCP Sreegs said they wouldn't discuss Greyscale's departure, but I'm not above it. The timing of it suggests there were some expectations that were not met. I won't pass any judgments on whether game mechanics are ethically correct, or even logically sound. I will say, though, that based on the complete lack of a great war (or even talk of conflict) probably means something needs to be changed. Just prior to Jump Fatigue, a Goonswarm Federation group of Ishtar guerrillas was formed, and I recognized the look of it right away: these guerrillas were a harassing force that would instill even more cause for hesitation--on top of jump fatigue. I don't know ** about sov but I know every suggestion for fixes has been rebutted with a likely scenario for being gamed, with the calculating reality of player behavior applied. And so far it all sounds far more plausible than any proposed change. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9832	Posted - 2015.02.19 21:27:51 - [52] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Exactly. If a group can't do it under an existing system (where it's doable but hard), NO system is going to work for them, Eh, this is demonstrably false. There are groups that have a strong effect in fac war sovereignty that couldn't have an effect on null sec sov. If the null sec sov system were changed to resemble the fac war system, those fac war groups would have a stronger effect. We can even narrow the scope further: There were/are many groups who were less effective (or ineffective entirely) under the old fac war system who are thriving under the new one. If we approach the limiting case were a single pilot can take sov in a system in 10 seconds, then such a system would certainly allow your proposed group to "take" sov. My point is not to suggest such a sov system, but simply to point out that the train of thought that goes "If you can't do it under an existing system, you can't do it under any system" is utterly and completely flawed, wrong in every way. The point is that the people who don't have the will to do a thing when it's doable probably won't have the will to do so even after you cater to them. People (like you) love to believe so, which is why CCP made change in the past with an eye towards this. The problem wasn't the old sov system and it's pos bashing (which ccp 'fixed' with a reasonable system....that made things even worse), it was the people using the system. Same now, which is why the Jump Fatigue system doesn't do what CCP thought it would. I know you want your conventional wisdom to work (people hold on to it like a crutch, because without this conventional wisdom, the world doesn't make sense, uncertainty is scary), but it just doesn't work that way.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9832	Posted - 2015.02.19 21:40:07 - [53] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Maybe EVE is getting old. The point about calculation is a good one, and it's accurate for me. I'm in the middle of a high sec PVE test with a Golem, and I'm finding the rate of ISK income from vanilla level 4 missions to be around... I don't know, 75 mil for a couple hours of lazy F1 spam? So it's still true a high sec marauder character can easily earn its own subscription... and then have a couple bil per month left over to blow on bling fits. This is even after a lot of mission values have been slashed by 90%, to a pittance compared to 2012 and earlier. Change hats out to null, and assuming players aren't in totally ** organizations, and ignoring PVE income in null due to risk (compared to high sec), there's not much incentive for PVP. Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't think that's it. I've never been a PVP type of gamer. Structure bashing, yes, that's part of group maintenance, and the narrative is fun. But we're not even seeing that. Then of course there's the departure of Greyscale at a very high profile time in his tenure at CCP. On the Meta Show, Mittens and the personality formerly known as CCP Sreegs said they wouldn't discuss Greyscale's departure, but I'm not above it. The timing of it suggests there were some expectations that were not met. I won't pass any judgments on whether game mechanics are ethically correct, or even logically sound. I will say, though, that based on the complete lack of a great war (or even talk of conflict) probably means something needs to be changed. Just prior to Jump Fatigue, a Goonswarm Federation group of Ishtar guerrillas was formed, and I recognized the look of it right away: these guerrillas were a harassing force that would instill even more cause for hesitation--on top of jump fatigue. I don't know ** about sov but I know every suggestion for fixes has been rebutted with a likely scenario for being gamed, with the calculating reality of player behavior applied. And so far it all sounds far more plausible than any proposed change. I don't know why Greyscale is gone, don't know if I'd believe it was something to do with null/sov/jump drives. But I can say that he seemed to be the poster boy for the kind of thinking that resulted in bad outcomes (there is a reason why I always link Greyscale DEV blogs lol, he always seemed certain that the changes he was describing would work, year after year despite what actually happened). But he's not the only one. We see a game that's safer than ever that's not just stuffing new players in like that safety was supposed to, and yet that trend continues. Greyscale had nothing to do with that lol.
PotatoOverdose Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS. 2621	Posted - 2015.02.19 22:59:37 - [54] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I know you want your conventional wisdom to work (people hold on to it like a crutch, because without this conventional wisdom, the world doesn't make sense, uncertainty is scary), but it just doesn't work that way. It's not about conventional wisdom, if you implemented a sov system were one frigate could flip a system in 1 second, people would do it for the lulz if nothing else, and larger groups wouldn't be any more effective than smaller groups because 1 second to flip. The point of such a ridiculous example set at the limit of possibility is not to say that something should be done, but that it can be done. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your sentiment that a new sov system won't fix many of the percieved wrongs of the current one. I agree that the people using the system are largely responsible for the current state of things. My entire disagreement is with the notion that "If you can't do it under an existing system, you can't do it under any system," which is provably false. That specific argument is just not true - if you could flip any system in a second, none of the current power groups would be able to do a thing about it. And this example proves a simple point: yes the people obviously have an effect, but so too does the system. Ignoring one or the other will never give you the complete picture.
Plug in Baby Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber 255	Posted - 2015.02.19 23:06:54 - [55] - Quote Just wait till jump fatigue goes live there will be smaller fights everywhere and it will break up blobs and the big blue doughnut! This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 124	Posted - 2015.02.19 23:10:35 - [56] - Quote Stop calling the CFC blob when a single ship shows up.
Drez Arthie Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2015.02.20 00:36:48 - [57] - Quote Plug in Baby wrote: ... big blue doughnut! dammit I'm hungry now
Aston Martin DB5 Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2015.02.20 00:39:32 - [58] - Quote Feel free to warDec my ELItE corp... So powerful Concord is under our control.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29956	Posted - 2015.02.20 00:43:40 - [59] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Wait, did he just... Basically say the spice must flow? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Paul AtreidesMuad Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi 114	Posted - 2015.02.20 03:25:22 - [60] - Quote Spice must flow
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9833	Posted - 2015.02.20 03:53:57 - [61] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Wait, did he just... Basically say the spice must flow? I dunno about you guys, but I interpreted Jump Fatigue as a throttle on gameplay as we knew it, including gate use. I saw supercap blobs happening, with their power more localized but also much more secure. And reluctant to go very far. I lacked (lack) the perspective to say anything about what would happen regarding sov changes, other than warfare being like a steamroller, but looking back... how was this supposed to turn out any way other than entrenching everyone Isn't it better to err on the side of keeping things kill-y I think it is, and I (and many others) said as much when the change was announced. I knew just as soon as I saw people proclaiming "this is great, this will really open things up" that it was going to fail. Again I wasn't the only one, but I absolute warned that this change would change the "Blue Donut" into a BLUE BRICK of established null groups holding the parts of null nearest empire (and holding the HELL out of it now that super caps can't go far) while continuing to rent out the 'far reaches' that now can only be reached by going through 'established group space'. TL;DR, people hear of a change, and they are so emotionally blinded by their dislike of the status quo that they don't understand that they are about to get screwed because the 'change' they are celebrating is about to make things WORSE lol. This change didn't open up anything, all it did was disappoint those who thought they'd have an opening while making the game less fun for the people already out in null.
Michael Ruckert Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando 280	Posted - 2015.02.20 04:14:56 - [62] - Quote Cue new EVE theme song (sung to the "Green Acres" theme music) Hi-sec is the place to be Ice mining is the life for me 'roids spreading out so far and wide Keep Null-sec, just give me that care bear life "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29957	Posted - 2015.02.20 04:24:09 - [63] - Quote It seems to have killed the lag fests. I've experienced less of those since coming out to null, than I did before. That's another thing I saw happening, which seemed like a great time to come out. I haven't broken out the caps yet, but that is one thing I look forward to. Totally lucked out in meeting the right people to get my first choice of org for capital gameplay in k-space. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22499	Posted - 2015.02.20 04:43:07 - [64] - Quote Dear Goon, Ask your own "org" about the lack of gudfites. Posting in GD to ask other people is a lot like how your leadership is always looking externally to solve a problem of their own invention. You are the mercury in our tuna. And, grr.. you. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6283	Posted - 2015.02.20 05:32:57 - [65] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the resources finite... The one simple solution that would solve so many of the problems plaguing this game right now. If I had the power to change one thing, and one thing only with EVE, this would be it. Keep up the good fight, Herzog. Mr Epeen Wait, did he just... Basically say the spice must flow? I dunno about you guys, but I interpreted Jump Fatigue as a throttle on gameplay as we knew it, including gate use. I saw supercap blobs happening, with their power more localized but also much more secure. And reluctant to go very far. I lacked (lack) the perspective to say anything about what would happen regarding sov changes, other than warfare being like a steamroller, but looking back... how was this supposed to turn out any way other than entrenching everyone Isn't it better to err on the side of keeping things kill-y I like you. You're not like other goons. Next time I roam Pure Blind in a SB I won't bomb you. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29960	Posted - 2015.02.20 05:58:09 - [66] - Quote Surely, EVE-O is neutral ground enough that you wouldn't say such things, even if only to placate me. Sibyyl. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22501	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:15:20 - [67] - Quote I am probably just being facetious with my second favorite goon (you). The jump changes lets the establishment shed off scattered systems they couldn't hold onto and dig their heels in, functionally changing very little. This is likely not quite what CCP was trying to accomplish, while alienating some of their senior-most player base (the cap pilots). What none of us seem to be able to come up with is a solution that would produce more B-R5RBs (dangerous activity) amongst groups who have no financial reason to take any risk. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29961	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:27:19 - [68] - Quote Your first favorite Goon, does the name start with a C and rhyme with Nommissar? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22503	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:30:02 - [69] - Quote Never not Motoko. You guessed correctly. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Serene Repose 2274	Posted - 2015.02.20 07:40:51 - [70] - Quote I saw jump fatigue as an attempt to reign in promiscuous use of game mechanics that was quickly eclipsing everything all at once. The component that's constantly overlooked, a$ once you pa$$ a few thre$hold$ $ome thing$ become incon$equential to you...if you catch my DRIFT....is the idea of cost itself being a sort of governing factor to certain activities. From my humble corner cap ships, hot dropping, weeklong thousand ship fleet fights with no change in the map at ALL were becoming as common as duels in Hek....every fifteen seconds. The affordability hurdle being no hurdle at all turned what were intended to be epic events with map altering outcomes into nothing more than spars. It became too EA$Y. So...I have to admit, they came up with a rather ingenious way to give it some perspective and proportion without altering the underlying structure too heavily. Of course, those who were rolling in the mud having a gay old time, figuring life will be fine from here to kingdom come, being a pig in this mudhole is a young boyz dream...naturally they'll be butthurt over it! Naturally they'll squeal like stuck....where does bacon come from again? And, so they did. However. The concept of deploying force has fundamentally changed. For the good? That'll be determined by movement of the blue donut...after a while. If at all. I'll speculate on that. I think the motivations for achievement in EVE are different. I think the people who think in terms of geopolitics have been replaced with people who think in terms of ranged conflict. By that I mean, there's a universe's difference between taking and holding. Our new breed....well...it remains to be seen if they're cut rate Napoleons, or digital Alexander the Greats. Puzzle that one out with a copy of Sun Tzu in your lap....this is, if you HAVE one. TYVM. Have a nice day! Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Liafcipe9000 Critically Preposterous 33616	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:15:15 - [71] - Quote Jane Shapperd wrote: if you didn't get a fight since the fatigue expansion , you obviously in the wrong Alliance well... goons. amirite? Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat. Critically Preposterous is recruiting!
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 512	Posted - 2015.02.20 11:22:58 - [72] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Dear Goon, Ask your own "org" about the lack of gudfites. Posting in GD to ask other people is a lot like how your leadership is always looking externally to solve a problem of their own invention. You are the mercury in our tuna. And, grr.. you. Grrr. None of the null players is doing much right now as they wait for the Sov announcement. Also, if you think we're the problem, who owns the entire south of the map and is renting it out?
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22503	Posted - 2015.02.20 13:09:51 - [73] - Quote kJ, I agree with your assessment here. knobber Jobbler wrote: All they saw was the large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull. I doubt you'll ever get a B-R ever again, it takes days to move a capital force across the map now and those entities which provided the medium scale fights and the bush wars no longer deploy due to the logistical problems of moving doctrines from one part of EVE to another in a carrier. In effect, Pheobe killed off casual players - read: have a job, which is most of us - being able to use carriers as a method of deploying and thus what made up those ~gud fites~ and imaginative doctrines. What happened is that individual cap pilots who invested a large amount of time and resources came out to express their dissatisfaction, and the EVE community did what it does best: point and laugh at people on the wrong end of a CCP game mechanic change. It is as if CCP heard the community and vindicated them by nerfing jumps. Truth is, in theory making everyone jump gates sounds like a good way to introduce more fights. No instant teleportation? Well you have to fight your way to wherever it is you are trying to go. But people don't want to die at a gate in a ship that costs more than their monthly or yearly salaries. Big fights have been too severely disincentivized. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Michael Ruckert Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando 282	Posted - 2015.02.20 16:44:03 - [74] - Quote Want fights? Go find the new boys in town - Drifters. Check their billboard. Or maybe they will find you. Stand by. "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9846	Posted - 2015.02.20 17:10:15 - [75] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: The Eye of Sauron was bad, all would agree that, but the measures taken to nullify it were not thought through in a wider context. They never are, which Is why I love to link that DEV blog I linked earlier, CCP actually thought nerfing anoms would lead to more fights in null despite how we warned them that all it meant was a shift of PVE alts out of null (making for fewer targets for roaming gangs, leading to fewer roaming gangs, which led to fewer escalating fights etc). We told them jump fatigue would lead to less fighting not more. For one reason, it made it hard to move multiple sub caps to new locations, meaning fewer deployments. They didn't listen. Hell, I even bookmarked a very snarky CCP Greyscale response to one of my posts on the issue for future use (that future would have been NOW) and the damn guy ain't even with CCP anymore (lol). CCP is like the real life friend we all have that is a great person who means well and wants the best for you but who is also a bit neurotic and tends to make things worse rather than better when they try to 'help' you
Desimus Maximus Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 171	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:22:02 - [76] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I can't speak for others, but I've been laying low due to the isboxer thing. Slowly testing the specifics of what's allowed, since they haven't outline specifics, which would be useful to multiboxers. G-keys within a client seem to be okay, though, so that's good news. They were clear. Any 3rd party program that facilitates ease of gameplay such as 1-click drives multiple clients is bannable. having multiple clients running and individually controlling, also considered under the multiboxing umbrella, is allowed.
Serene Repose 2275	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:32:04 - [77] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 513	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:37:43 - [78] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: CCP is like the real life friend we all have that is a great person who means well and wants the best for you but who is also a bit neurotic and tends to make things worse rather than better when they try to 'help' you God forbid their vision for their game isn't the same as your vision for ... their game. Of course, you've done nothing all these months if not display your superior knowledge with regard to computer game development. How fond affection creates expertise. (You should take your talents to the world of marriage.) Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29963	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:03:34 - [79] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: individual cap pilots who invested a large amount of time and resources came out to express their dissatisfaction, and the EVE community did what it does best: point and laugh at people on the wrong end of a CCP game mechanic change. So damn true. I also love the fact that Goonwaffe happened in the middle of that thread. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9852	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:28:48 - [80] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: CCP is like the real life friend we all have that is a great person who means well and wants the best for you but who is also a bit neurotic and tends to make things worse rather than better when they try to 'help' you God forbid their vision for their game isn't the same as your vision for ... their game. Of course, you've done nothing all these months if not display your superior knowledge with regard to computer game development. How fond affection creates expertise. (You should take your talents to the world of marriage.) That's a mighty big lump of butt hurt over the fact that you tend to be wrong when we communicate lol. It has nothing to do with my viion of any game, I'm not a game maker. I'm commenting on how CCP does something with a goal in mind and that goal not only doesn't happen, the opposite happens. Or Did I just imagine this from 4 years ago? Quote: Expected consequences GÇóSome alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space GÇóIn the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals GÇóNewer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec GÇóCoalitions will be marginally less stable GÇóAlliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places) Since I'm somehow wrong here, Pok Nibin, please demonstrate to me the parts of the above quote that actually happened.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9853	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:33:40 - [81] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29964	Posted - 2015.02.20 22:44:38 - [82] - Quote Desimus Maximus wrote: Rain6637 wrote: I can't speak for others, but I've been laying low due to the isboxer thing. Slowly testing the specifics of what's allowed, since they haven't outline specifics, which would be useful to multiboxers. G-keys within a client seem to be okay, though, so that's good news. They were clear. Any 3rd party program that facilitates ease of gameplay such as 1-click drives multiple clients is bannable. having multiple clients running and individually controlling, also considered under the multiboxing umbrella, is allowed. There are use cases that were not explicity covered, and the exact nature of the detection methods were not released. There are also fair use cases that may cause false positives. These macro bans are handled automatically at each downtime, detected by the client. In this case, where judgement is meted out by machine, and the consequence is rather severe, it's just prudent to exercise caution and perform thorough testing first on Sisi, then on TQ. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 513	Posted - 2015.02.21 07:10:08 - [83] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Go watch those videos of nullsec ownership shifting. It only got truly bad a year or so ago. Stop trying to win internet points and be objective. Right now its even worse or is reading more difficult than being truculent?
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 513	Posted - 2015.02.21 07:29:09 - [84] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: kJ, I agree with your assessment here. knobber Jobbler wrote: All they saw was the large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull. I doubt you'll ever get a B-R ever again, it takes days to move a capital force across the map now and those entities which provided the medium scale fights and the bush wars no longer deploy due to the logistical problems of moving doctrines from one part of EVE to another in a carrier. In effect, Pheobe killed off casual players - read: have a job, which is most of us - being able to use carriers as a method of deploying and thus what made up those ~gud fites~ and imaginative doctrines. What happened is that individual cap pilots who invested a large amount of time and resources came out to express their dissatisfaction, and the EVE community did what it does best: point and laugh at people on the wrong end of a CCP game mechanic change. It is as if CCP heard the community and vindicated them by nerfing jumps. Truth is, in theory making everyone jump gates sounds like a good way to introduce more fights. No instant teleportation? Well you have to fight your way to wherever it is you are trying to go. But people don't want to die at a gate in a ship that costs more than their monthly or yearly salaries. Big fights have been too severely disincentivized. Yes, there is an intense amount of CCP trying to suck up to the vocal minority and that minority then validating what CCP did. Many in that minority would never set foot in null, probably have never encountered a capital but were motivated, as you say, by laughing at those on the wrong end of a nerf. The EVE community is fickle and its doesn't help that we have a CSM which generally (not all of them) is more interested in being smug and tweeting about how important they are rather than representing the interests of the wider player base. I would completely disagree with the fighting through gates to get where you need to go. Battles at gates happen fairly infrequently, its usually small camps which run away or get stragglers, at least in my experience. Fights happen over timers and the only fights in null right now around those are being deliberately kept at a low intensity and access via wormholes. Rolling holes is now much more relevant.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16131	Posted - 2015.02.21 09:47:22 - [85] - Quote Swanky nutjob wrote: Waiting for sov change announcement. And yes, deploying in anything other than cruiser fleets via wormholes is tedious at best, trail of tears at worst. The phoebe changes didn't allow new entities to magically take up new sov space, didn't force anyone to contract, entrenched existing alliances with a supercap force and generally made EVE dull. People warned of this when it was announced but couldn't be heard over those who had no idea what they were talking about and just want a free pass to get sov space. Space aids needs to be toned down drastically. You mean apart from the CFC abandoning 3 regions and PL literally walking away from their holdings? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16131	Posted - 2015.02.21 11:01:41 - [86] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new. Sorry, I can't hear you over the entertaining campaign I've just enjoyed. It came to an end when N3 decided to deply their full coalition down to Immensea for little ol' us, but that cost them a couple of supercap coathangerings back in Querious. You know. Exactly like it should. So i'm going to call a big fat "working as intended". The major sov holders are, as Endie correctly points out, waiting on the upcoming sov changes because there's not much point in launching major campaigns if there's a strong possibility that anything you gain might be invalidated. Essentially you're complaining about a guy getting open heart surgery, lying on the table with his chest cut open and saying "well he doesn't look much better to me". "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Serene Repose 2282	Posted - 2015.02.21 17:41:05 - [87] - Quote Everything you gain should be invalidated unless you're just out to change the shape of the donut...and color, too, I guess. Jenn aSide wrote: Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new. Yeah, I know. This is all so complicated. How could a girl like me understand it? Thanks for pointing out the obvious once again. You still didn't respond to - it all got too EASY, making it as meaningless as sparring in Hek. Now it's NOT easy. TYVM. Have a nice day! Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Vyl Vit 1061	Posted - 2015.02.21 17:47:53 - [88] - Quote Make it eas...uh....WORK RIGHT again CCP you dummies! Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1425	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:20:18 - [89] - Quote How about players fix it. Are you SURROUNDED by so many blues, the NODE crashes when 5% of them are in local? Yes? IT'S YOU that is the problem No? Carry on waiting for the people above to wake up. There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Commander Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1425	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:20:18 - [90] - Quote How about players fix it. Are you SURROUNDED by so many blues, the NODE crashes when 5% of them are in local? Yes? IT'S YOU that is the problem No? Carry on waiting for the people above to wake up. There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22562	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:31:26 - [91] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: How about players fix it. Are you SURROUNDED by so many blues, the NODE crashes when 5% of them are in local? Yes? IT'S YOU that is the problem No? Carry on waiting for the people above to wake up. Expecting players to do the something at great expense to their wallets and their livelihood is a good formula for stagnation. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29986	Posted - 2015.02.22 01:52:41 - [92] - Quote I love seeing all the people with a jump.... to conclusions mat Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9862	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:25:27 - [93] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Serene Repose wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: ...large alliances were getting a nerf to capital deployments yet failed to realise this would just lead to entrenchment and ultimately make nullsec quite dull.... Sounds great, logically speaking (in a way), however; wildly inaccurate bordering on total fabrication. The "entrenchment" as you call it, began after folks solidified what they ended up with after BoB was removed. In other words....the entrenchment was already there. So Goonwaffle of you to put it that way, though. Maybe you didn't understand what he was saying. What a lot of us have been saying. Jump nerf didn't CAUSE stagnation it made it WORSE. Now The coalitions are guarding their territories with massive fleets of super capitals that even the other coalitions can't match in a timely manner. It's even hard (even with jump freighters) to do subcapital deployments. The point of it all is that is that as in the past, a change meant to help, HURT instead. No one is suggesting the jump changes caused anything new. Sorry, I can't hear you over the entertaining campaign I've just enjoyed. It came to an end when N3 decided to deply their full coalition down to Immensea for little ol' us, but that cost them a couple of supercap coathangerings back in Querious. You know. Exactly like it should. So i'm going to call a big fat "working as intended". The major sov holders are, as Endie correctly points out, waiting on the upcoming sov changes because there's not much point in launching major campaigns if there's a strong possibility that anything you gain might be invalidated. Essentially you're complaining about a guy getting open heart surgery, lying on the table with his chest cut open and saying "well he doesn't look much better to me". If this is what is intended, then the intentions were the problem. Waiting for sov changes is an excuse, and the conflicts you are talking about (and that both of us have just participated in) are different than pre-jump fatigue gud fights how exactly? The only thing that changed was existing groups using wormholes more (which means a few more hilarious wormhole killmails). CCP didn't say jump fatigue was a cure all I know, but they DID say they expected it to help (I'm serious I had a post of GreyScale's all bookmarked and ready and will never get to use it lol). It hasn't helped. It hurt and people can feel that, especially the alliances that are now having participation problems (a few of which are resorting to PAP LINKS lol). The same thinking that led to jump fatigue will probably be applied to the sov changes. If that happens things are going to get worse. What's needed is new thinking (even if that leads to the total removal of SOV, because it's probably the idea of SOV itself that is at the heart of the 'problem').
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29986	Posted - 2015.02.22 03:29:10 - [94] - Quote are you familiar with the sequence Malcanis described as coathangering? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22610	Posted - 2015.02.22 06:25:18 - [95] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Malcanis wrote: The major sov holders are, as Endie correctly points out, waiting on the upcoming sov changes because there's not much point in launching major campaigns if there's a strong possibility that anything you gain might be invalidated. Waiting for sov changes is an excuse, and the conflicts you are talking about (and that both of us have just participated in) are different than pre-jump fatigue gud fights how exactly? Everyone is just waiting to switch to a healthier diet before they start their routine at the gym. Ever think about what bad excuses sound like? Waiting for SOV changes to start your gudfites in null is akin to waiting to undock until your skill points are high enough. Expecting someone to behave in a completely different way, once they are accustomed to making risk averse rationalizations, is just wishful thinking. Jenn aSide wrote: The same thinking that led to jump fatigue will probably be applied to the sov changes. Given the total lack of disclosure so far, as well as the typical CCP "surprise, here's what we cooked up" policy, my expectations of the SOV revamp are low. Still, I have moments of awe and wonder at what CCP can pull off, so I hope I'm totally wrong here. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6544	Posted - 2015.02.22 06:33:03 - [96] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: The same thinking that led to jump fatigue will probably be applied to the sov changes. Given the total lack of disclosure so far, as well as the typical CCP "surprise, here's what we cooked up" policy, my expectations of the SOV revamp are low. Still, I have moments of awe and wonder at what CCP can pull off, so I hope I'm totally wrong here. Perhaps they will dig up plans for sov fatigue... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 514	Posted - 2015.02.22 08:26:00 - [97] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Swanky nutjob wrote: Waiting for sov change announcement. And yes, deploying in anything other than cruiser fleets via wormholes is tedious at best, trail of tears at worst. The phoebe changes didn't allow new entities to magically take up new sov space, didn't force anyone to contract, entrenched existing alliances with a supercap force and generally made EVE dull. People warned of this when it was announced but couldn't be heard over those who had no idea what they were talking about and just want a free pass to get sov space. Space aids needs to be toned down drastically. You mean apart from the CFC abandoning 3 regions and PL literally walking away from their holdings? In both cases sold to some one else who wants to be the local police. On the flip side N3's renter empire is now most of the south. Blocs maybe waiting right now but isn't the only or main reason for the current boredom sweeping null.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 125	Posted - 2015.02.22 13:35:34 - [98] - Quote After reading the various posts the take away is...... Null people are afraid to leave their zerg for fear of being shot at.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 30243	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:11:12 - [99] - Quote "Sov fatigue" lol I typed those words in scc-lounge chat as a joke. That was a thing ever? Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6546	Posted - 2015.02.22 18:21:55 - [100] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: "Sov fatigue" lol I typed those words in scc-lounge chat as a joke. That was a thing ever? Maybe they'll roll it out with csm approval after an improved... 13hours Instead of 12 as with a related major change... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Jarnis McPieksu Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 568	Posted - 2015.02.23 09:36:27 - [101] - Quote What is this drivel? Jump Fatigue has made the game better. More small entities in null, not getting instantly curbstomped. More "room" for real players as big coalitions are hard pressed to hold such vast areas any more. Fights stay more local. Third partying doesn't involve dropping 100 supercaps unless you are REALLY committed to that (and whole EVE will see you coming, probably hours in advance). Well organized groups can still move around and throw their weight around as needed. See: PL deployment to I6- - went there and back, only lost a couple of caps to drive-by DDs (grrr Gorgon Empire) - practically nothing considering the amount of ships that moved. Move ops not really a big deal if you organize and plan everything carefully and have clued-in pilots who know how to not mess themselves with excess Fatigue (this bit is probably hard for Goons). EVE feels properly big again. Going beyond 20 jumps from your staging is something you actually have to plan a bit... no more "we'll just suitcase here with carriers and then hop 5 jumps to destination in subcaps and blap things". Plenty of fights available. Especially in low sec where small groups actually throw caps around these days (no more instant super surprise from Amamake 30 seconds after someone undocks a carrier). Yeah, there is no huge-ass sov war going on right now, but that's mostly due to BL/Solar folding instantly and that operation turning into a bulldozing exercise. Goons should ask from their glorious leader why there is no war for you. Perhaps you have too much blue around you. PL is fighting every day in a target-rich environment.
Siegfried Cohenberg Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 48	Posted - 2015.02.23 11:15:16 - [102] - Quote We don't even need to declare war. Come to Uedama and I'll pvp your freighter with my machariel. If by chance we get interrupted by a fleet of catalysts then I would just call that an environmental hazard.
Miali Askulf Black Rise Freight 1	Posted - 2015.02.23 11:39:16 - [103] - Quote Being able to undock something larger than a cruiser and not have PL (not to pick on them specifically - they were just the most active) drop supers has by no means been a bad change. I don't think jump changes were ever expected to suddenly start a huge nullsec war - quite the opposite, the idea was to make long distance deployment much slower and enable more localised conflicts. That part at least has been reasonably successful I think.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 127	Posted - 2015.02.23 12:46:46 - [104] - Quote Siegfried Cohenberg wrote: We don't even need to declare war. Come to Uedama and I'll pvp your freighter with my machariel. If by chance we get interrupted by a fleet of catalysts then I would just call that an environmental hazard. Those darned catalyst fleets are always interrupting a good 1 v 1 Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec

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