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Aknot Wat
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Posted - 2006.10.06 05:39:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 06/10/2006 05:44:54
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 06/10/2006 05:43:30
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 06/10/2006 05:41:44
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 06/10/2006 05:40:18
EVE is tailor made for the 0.0 and now the low sec ganker. Why?
Why not make it more fun for all in EVE by giving the "good guys" the tools they need to combat and add balance to EVE? Has to be reason for so many posts about this. Is CCP happy really with the subsribers count they have? It's rather small. Why not get more?
The ganker in EVE is what CCP intended, I UNDERSTAND THIS. They want the "Wild Wild West". You know, it's their game and that's fine. Problem is there is absolutely no real incentive for a player not to become a ganker/pirate eventually. Or should I say there's no real challenge placed upson them once they become one (especially if in some pirate mega corp). Why not make it more interesting for all?
Currently you have no real way of knowing where the "most wanted" are. Sure, they might show up on a billboard but that's it. No location, no last seen, nothing. Hell, they might not even be playing EVE anymore.
What needs to happen is the following:
1) You kill someone in your bloodline, you get additional penalties. This makes the player more aware of his "role playing" choice when chosing a toon. Otherwise, why even have this option in EVE player creation CCP? Maybe this might make him think twice before instantly annihilating someone? Probably not, but who knows.
2) Killing someone in your bloodline sends out a region report, IF THE BOUNTY HUNTER WANNABE CHOOSES TO SUBSCRIBE. This report lets the player know what pilot and where the act was done. This report is only generated, even if subscribed, if the act occurs in the region you are in (to control data being sent in game). Then day to day, you are given position reports on the player. When he undocks and docks (where) and when he switches regions.
I can hear all the gankers moaning. But hey, you've had it one sided for too long, this would make it more fun for all, even you guys. But remember, all the above only goes in to affect for those you've killed *in your bloodline*. I think having this for ALL players would make it UNBALANCED and kill the server load.
3) Military stations have addtional resources. If the player came through that *system* in which the military station was located, then station reports all his transactions for you to view. Just helpful intel building information. What ammo did he buy? What did he sell? To who? So now you can fire off evemails. Also, if you were killed by someone NOT in your bloodline, you can get limited information at these stations-ONLY.
4) If you are a "serial killer". Someone who kills more than 10 pods in LOW SEC OR EMPIRE ONLY during a 3 month period, you are given extra special attention (kill clock resets every 3 month to maintain balanced play). When traveling in LOW SEC or EMPIRE, even if you don't have a negative -5.0 rating, the bounty hunter who successfully warp scrams and webs you (has you frozen essentially for a period of time) has the option of calling in Concord to finish you off. The bounty hunter also receives a bounty of "some amount" even if you didn't have a bounty on yer head. Concord takes all the cargo not destroyed.
This all just adds an extraordinary dynamic to being a "bad guy" in EVE. I think it makes it even more fun for the bad guys as well as the other players. I do not think it's enough of a deterrant to end the "Wild Wild West" by any means. It just helps balance the game more.
And let's face it, the only players who claim the game is fine as is and is balanced, are the gankers and pirates! Proof will be in the replies, if any to this thread. Sure some "good guys" will cry, but the majority whinning will be current gankers or ex-gankers and that's fine. CCP intended to EVE to be a gank fest PvP game, it's their game. I just want to add some tools to make it more level, fun for more players.
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Cattraknoff
Caldari
Sha Kharn Corp
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.06 05:49:00 -
[2]
No.....
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Hesed
Hamartia.
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Posted - 2006.10.06 05:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Aknot Wat
3) Military stations have addtional resources. If the player came through that *system* in which the military station was located, then station reports all his transactions for you to view. Just helpful intel building information. What ammo did he buy? What did he sell? To who? So now you can fire off evemails. Also, if you were killed by someone NOT in your bloodline, you can get limited information at these stations-ONLY.
I disagreed with virtually all of your post, but this part fired off a few resilient brain-cells.
I would not mind seeing a few Concord SWAT stations that deny entrance or even approach based on security status scattered about in lowsec. I would also not mind a few Suukuvesta Security corporations with the same ethos based on npc corp standing if factional warfare ever takes that direction.
As to what sort of logistic assistance it could render, I am not certain if any are viable without causing problems with other game mechanics. It does however, seem like something that deserves to be thought over even if players themselves ultimately make the game. There's the germ of a good idea in there, I can smell it, though I can't see it.
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Amber Saint
Genos Occidere
Thundering Mantis
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Posted - 2006.10.06 05:55:00 -
[4]
Soooo...
If im in a gang, and theres another gang we might want to kill.. We have to show info on all targets before firing INCASE they are from the same bloodline as you? :D
Or if they decide to attack a single target, then you can't help them...?
Sure if its a fair fight, why not keep it fair..
BUT this will nerf for the new players wanting to pvp/pirate? Because they can't attack bigger targets cuz their gangmates might not be able to attack them without getting the whole region after them?
Just... no....
Oh and btw, use agent locating system 
And bloodlines, different attributes? 
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Beringe
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2006.10.06 05:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
4) If you are a "serial killer". Someone who kills more than 10 pods in LOW SEC OR EMPIRE ONLY during a 3 month period,
You just described everyone who has ever been in an empire war and actually done something more than hide in station or getting popped himself.
Hell, you just described most PVPers on the rim of lawless space. People don't hold their fire against enemies (piratical or otherwise) just because the system sec rating says 0.1, you know.
Point is, your "good guy, bad guy" definitions are outdated and unwanted in EVE.
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"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Rasitiln
Minmatar
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:01:00 -
[6]
I kinda know where you are coming from but there is a lot more carebears than gankers or pirates. I would love for ccp to really buff bounty hunting even wouldnt mind the bounty hunter to beable to view your wallet transactions like you mentioned. Would make the game a lot more interesting. I dont think pirates need any more nerfing though we cant go into high sec as it is so we have little access to the market etc.
So ya buff bounty hunting make it more interesting. (concord should give bountys based on killing someone not a lot but enough)
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:11:00 -
[7]
Im in a sad thread.
N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:16:00 -
[8]
Ya OP is right. No incentive or real rewards for playing the sheriff of the old west, plus you are at a huge disadvantage to the campers. Needs to be fixed. Should be tough to be an outlaw not easy.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Currently you have no real way of knowing where the "most wanted" are. Sure, they might show up on a billboard but that's it. No location, no last seen, nothing. Hell, they might not even be playing EVE anymore.
You mean like locator agents and the buddy list?
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Cattraknoff
Caldari
Sha Kharn Corp
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Ya OP is right. No incentive or real rewards for playing the sheriff of the old west, plus you are at a huge disadvantage to the campers. Needs to be fixed. Should be tough to be an outlaw not easy.
If you are intelligent about it, 99% of the time you wont be ganked.
No, I don't enjoy camping.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:28:00 -
[11]
You have exactly the same tools that the people who kill you have. Not only that, you don't have to worry about sec status and sentries.
Now get out there and do something useful.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
1) You kill someone in your bloodline, you get additional penalties. This makes the player more aware of his "role playing" choice when chosing a toon.
Only if I can shoot at random Matari characters without penalty. Bloody lazy slaves, puttering about in spaceships rather than polishing laser crystals.
Originally by: Aknot Wat
2) Killing someone in your bloodline sends out a region report, IF THE BOUNTY HUNTER WANNABE CHOOSES TO SUBSCRIBE.
...Hoooookay. This would be fair how? Maybe if pirates can get a region report of the same variety everytime someone fires a mining laser on an asteroid.
Originally by: Aknot Wat
3) Military stations have addtional resources.
They do; but you're not military. Why would you get their intel?
Originally by: Aknot Wat
4) If you are a "serial killer". Someone who kills more than 10 pods in LOW SEC OR EMPIRE ONLY during a 3 month period, you are given extra special attention (kill clock resets every 3 month to maintain balanced play). When traveling in LOW SEC or EMPIRE, even if you don't have a negative -5.0 rating, the bounty hunter who successfully warp scrams and webs you (has you frozen essentially for a period of time) has the option of calling in Concord to finish you off. The bounty hunter also receives a bounty of "some amount" even if you didn't have a bounty on yer head. Concord takes all the cargo not destroyed.
If you have your target warp scrambled and webbed, and need to have a Concordokken happen, you probably shouldn't be bounty hunting. Regardless of this, the moronic tyrants at Concord must be destroyed.
Originally by: Aknot Wat
This all just adds an extraordinary dynamic to being a "bad guy" in EVE.
If by extraordinary dynamic you mean ridiculous penalties, I fully agree.
Originally by: Aknot Wat
And let's face it, the only players who claim the game is fine as is and is balanced, are the gankers and pirates!
EVE is fine and balanced, except for the lack of an Emperor. Then again, one Emperor is worth about twenty Gallente presidents, so that's probably why we don't have one still. Yep, fine and balanced.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:35:00 -
[13]
There is an ideas forum for this kinda stuff why don't you post there?
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Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:40:00 -
[14]
Do your location agents just not work or something?
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Karodnotos
Caldari
SOM
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Ya OP is right. No incentive or real rewards for playing the sheriff of the old west, plus you are at a huge disadvantage to the campers. Needs to be fixed. Should be tough to be an outlaw not easy.
disadvantage?
they managed to get some people together to camp the gate.
if u r not able to get some people to get through the gate, well... better dont go there 
u have exactly the same changes to group urself with other players as the campers have...
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Nymos
Celtic Anarchy
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:49:00 -
[16]
what's your definition of a "good guy"? is someone in an alliance that claims a region a good guy just because they are settled somewhere and secure some space? or is it some miner that got ganked once and decided to become a good guy and train up for a ferox? or is it a mission runner that never enters low-sec anyway because his ship is worth more than a whole blob of goonfleet?
honestly, stop all the "nerf pirates", "nerf missions" crap.
yes, gate camps wtfpwnbbq you if you get cought, but not just noobs, carebears and "good guys", but random gankers and alliance ppl as well. everyone in the same boat, right?
as for tools to kill pirates, why dont you just war-dec a pirate corp and kill them in low sec without penalties? i'm sure they'd be glad to get some fights as low sec is pretty empty anyway. same conditions for both sides, the better one wins.
and do you expect constructive posts in your thread if you attack pirates verbally in every paragraph? can't ppl post their "anti-carebear" and "anti-pirate" stuff in a more unbiased way for a constructive discussion?
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Android Mindslave
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:58:00 -
[17]
So if I'm reading this right....
"OMG I got killed, and somebody *else* should do something about it."
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:58:00 -
[18]
There are plenty of PvPers who hunt pirates.
You have access to all the same tools they do. Those who band together and work as a team will always have an advantage over those who do not. That is how it should be.
If you want to know who the most wanted are look at the missions tab (you know, courier missions, escrow) and select Bounty. There you will have a list of the top bounties, just ignore Salvador Saparti as he is a GM run character and crime boss. To locate a target add them to your address book, you will now be able to tell if they are online or not at any point. To find them go to a locator agent. They are mission agents that can find people for a fee. Get a good one like Vodber in Abudban and he can find anyone, nearly anywhere and tell you if they are in space or where they are docked.
After that it is normally a good idea to stalk your target for a while. Maybe watch them in a CovOps. See what they fly, where they hunt. Get some ship / cargo scans if you can to work out ship fittings and ammo types they carry. See who they fly with and add them to your address book so you know when they have backup around. Check out public killboards like battleclinic or one supplied by their corp. The killmails will tell you what they like to fly and where. It will also give you an idea of when they are most active and whether they like to camp gates (hauler kills) or hunt belts (barges and ships fitted for ratting).
Then pick a time to strike. In 0.0 an interdictor is excellent for holding a ship and pod. In lieu of that smartbombs make short work of them. Practice tackling though, a sensor boosted 'ceptor dedicated to catching the pod as it ejects is a godsend.
Of course if a few of you band together you'll have more luck. Maybe look like a harmless mining outfit or something and get some specialists going (CovOps / Tracker, Mr Kill-It, Tackler). Get some contacts going for intel and away you go.
The only problem I see with the bounty system is that anyone, including a mate of the pirate, can claim it. Thats why many bounties are so low, often pirates get a mate to pod them and split the isk.
I don't like your ideas but I see where you are coming from. I have outlined how bounty hunting works but it is not an easy way to make a living. It is fun and that is what that is all about. Remember some people with low sec and bounties are good guys. A bounty hunter takes sec hits for shooting first in low sec as much as the next guy and bounties can be put on by anyone. I know Matari Freedom Fighters who have low sec status and bounties from the attacking slavers but they are not pirates (well maybe in the eyes of the slavers).
Last thing, race does not determine faction. I am a Matari, I could be a Republic Citizen, a migrant worker in the Federation or a Nafantar traitor living in the Mandate. One mans pirate is anothers heroic pilot.
Good hunting.
>> RECRUITING << |
Changaroo
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.06 09:37:00 -
[19]
There are some PvP corps solely dedicated to eradicating pirates, pirate corps and alike. Each one has the simple choice of choosing their style of play. Gotta lub EVE for its diversity.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.10.06 09:46:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ghoest on 06/10/2006 09:47:35
The original poster has a great point, but his ideas are wrong.
The mechanics of EVE favor pirates over anti-pirates.
EDIT: For the record the mechanics favor carebears over pirates.
-Im completely against making the game safer for carebears.
-Concord should be no more powerful than it is currently against pirates.
The flagging system should be changed to make it easier for a group of good guys to go in and attack a gate camp. I know there are ways to do it now, but they work against good guy types who dont spend all their time trying to manipulate flagging.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Micia
Minmatar
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.10.06 09:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Ya OP is right. No incentive or real rewards for playing the sheriff of the old west
Why should there be? 
_______
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Raith Seinar
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Posted - 2006.10.06 09:52:00 -
[22]
Some interesting points here. I am of the opinion, admittedly without much experience, that bounty hunting is a much less attractive proposition than piracy.
Look at it from a practical point of view. A pirate is able to commit piracy in low sec space pretty much at will. Sure, his low sec rating means he can't enter empire and shop, but he has alts for that. There are risks such as losing his ship, but he has a choice of the target to take out and when to do it so this risk is mitigated as much as possible as long as he is a good judge of his chances.
The bounty hunter can attack only select targets. He often has to track over several systems, to only then find out that his target has just gone offline. Should he take out the pirate, he gets the bounty....as we have seen, often quite low as it is possible that the high bounty has already been claimed and split by the pirate's friend.
Perhaps we could consider some ways of increasing the risk/reward relationship for the pirate/BH respectively. Removal of the ability to collect bounties after a set sec level, say -7. This discourages the pirate from losing the ability to claim his own bounty, unless he's going for all out infamy and -10  Also, improve the gains to be had from bounty hunting. As well as the cash boost, perhaps an improved faction boost for the BH in those factions for whom the pirate had a low rating. This adds extra RP in terms of race, as a pirate rated badly by Gallente for example can expect himself to be hunted by those looking to increase their gallente standing. Thoughts?
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Tommy Vercetti
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.06 09:53:00 -
[23]
www.worldofwarcraft.com
Hey OP, take a look at this mate, might be your cup of tea.
Originally by: "Murukan"
It's like really you ******* ***, it also out damages my tempest so maybe i shouldn't saunter up to the thron at 2km like i'm ready to **** it's ****.
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Lardarz B'stard
Amarr
Out Of Exile
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:00:00 -
[24]
The fact that you used the word "toon" removes any trace of credibility from what was a pretty silly post anyway.
Join Out Of Exile Today |
Eno Matterre
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:05:00 -
[25]
I haven't read anything apart from the original post, so don't yell at me if this has already been said (I'm in a hurry, sorry). Any type of computer game is a action-no_reaction pair. There is and never will be any responsibility, any consequences of illdoings, no "law" and "imprisonment". The reason is simple, people want to be able to kill other people's ships/pods without any kind of responsibility for those actions. Humans are competetetetive (damn this word) and therefore will take any chance to compete with others, especially if they can only win (hence 10:1 ganking, log-on traps, uber-fittings etc.). CCP is making money of people's desire to be "the winner". People do not want to have real-life-like-experience, they want to kill and get away with it, have that short moment of "kill the damn carebear" glory. Changing the game so being a pirate would limit your choices significantly is not happening EVER. Besides, there are alts that let you escape ANY kind of responsibility for your actions, and your typical "pirate" has one, right?
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:13:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/10/2006 10:13:32
Originally by: Aknot Wat
EVE is tailor made for the 0.0 and now the low sec ganker. Why?
No, its not. And just because you say so doesn't make it true.
Let me try one of these too:
"EVE is tailor made for Australian koalas to use to take over the world. Why?"
Equally valid!
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Complacency's Bane
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:27:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Raith Seinar
Some interesting points here. I am of the opinion, admittedly without much experience, that bounty hunting is a much less attractive proposition than piracy.
From a game mechanics point of view, piracy is easier then low-sec antipiracy simply due to more targets.
The reason you see a massive number of pirates and fairly few antipirates? Well, try being an actual anti-pirate for a while (I've done it, its easier then most people make it sound). You'll realize that the people youre trying to protect in low-sec are people whom evolution forgot, and who manage to be so idiotic that you'll be amazed that theyve figured out Pants, then Shoes.
Its not worth being an anti-pirate because you'll hate the people who youre trying to protect and you'll eventually go pirate. The only real exceptions are combat corps which do the odd bit of anti-pirate work between wars or conflicts.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lardarz B'stard
The fact that you used the word "toon" removes any trace of credibility from what was a pretty silly post anyway.
QFT
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Nerf Caldaro! |
VinLieger
Caldari
The Beiatch Corp Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:46:00 -
[29]
I look at the op's post in 2 ways either you are a noob and actually dont know enough about the game to make a suggestion like this or your posting with an alt which just proves that you know its a stupid idea and are scared to post with your main
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Namtuk
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:50:00 -
[30]
Maybe WOW is the better game for you if u want more players and u donŠ`t want to get ganked very safe game very hard to get ganked lol. Ther is one unique thing about EVE that no other MMO has in that way and thats the fact that this is one huge world where eveyone can interact with each other ur not gonna find that in ne other MMO in this form and size.
If u spent a little more time finding out what the game has to offer and spend less time whining about the game you might get to like it.
Being smart is a very big part of this game which also includes traveling in a smart way and not getting ganked. Knowing of major chokepoints is a great help there.
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