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Edgar Erata
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
1
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Posted - 2015.02.18 18:58:18 -
[1] - Quote
According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969 |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2002
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Posted - 2015.02.18 18:59:35 -
[2] - Quote
I'm pretty sure a Titan warping at 1.5AU/s is pretty fast |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
6512
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Posted - 2015.02.18 18:59:46 -
[3] - Quote
Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969
Did Apollo 10 have a warp drive that I didn't know about, because I have an Atron that'll zip across 20AU in a couple of seconds.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Edgar Erata
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
1
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:05:02 -
[4] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969 Did Apollo 10 have a warp drive that I didn't know about, because I have an Atron that'll zip across 20AU in a couple of seconds.
Lol I was taking about naked ships |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4257
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:05:28 -
[5] - Quote
It might have been going fast, but how about that turning radius? Bet it couldn't pull off a turn at that speed in smaller than a dramiel going at the same speed could.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Nalia White
Tencus
75
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:05:30 -
[6] - Quote
Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969
did they measure that speed in the film studios in area 51? impressive :P |
Memphis Baas
171
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:07:37 -
[7] - Quote
Issue has been brought up in the past; you'd be shooting at a dot on the radar if realistic speeds are implemented, because realistic speeds also require realistic distances, and the ships will just be dots at 10-100-1000 km ranges.
So for the sake of pretty graphics, they've limited the range of guns and speed of ships. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
6512
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:16:09 -
[8] - Quote
Edgar Erata wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969 Did Apollo 10 have a warp drive that I didn't know about, because I have an Atron that'll zip across 20AU in a couple of seconds. Lol I was talking about ships in normal flight
You're comparing video game mechanics to real physics. This is your error, because for the sake of gameplay, we have to keep things simple.
There was an Xplane game about a decade back I remember playing that gave you a few hypothetical spacefighters and I remember putting them to the test with some friends. No engagement ever took place because whenever an intercept was attempted, the inertia was always too great for practical turning into the engagement. Not just that, but as we passed our intercept targets, they only appeared for a brief fraction of a second before disappearing from view behind us because they were just moving too damn fast relative to us.
Ever since then, I've always wondered what a space combat game with real orbital physics might be like. You could, theoretically, engage ships in a high enough orbit with a proper intercept trajectory but if your targets were to see you coming, they could shift their orbit to avoid the intercept. Likewise, you could shift yours as well to set up a new intercept. But what might happen once you made engagement range? Well, if the orbit is too low, maneuvering of any kind might simply be out of the question, because you'd risk deorbiting and if your objective is to stay in space, you've got a problem. With a high enough orbit though, some low-speed maneuvering might actually be possible, and you could well see some close-up space battle action, but the speeds of engagement relative to one another would have to be low, while your orbital speed could remain quite high. Each ship maneuvering around other ships, though, would be shifting its own orbit in the process to some degree or another, but that's the thing - EVE, like most other space games, doesn't bother with gravity, while reality does, and that complicates how real space combat might go down.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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HeXxploiT
Little Red X
98
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:22:02 -
[9] - Quote
Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969
You are correct. In fact the large majority of ships in eve would not even reach the escape velocity required to break away from earth which requires 11.2kps. |
ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
59
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:22:29 -
[10] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969 did they measure that speed in the film studios in area 51? impressive :P
greaaaaaat. one of you people.
my linked dram approaches 11k/s
and has absurd agility.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3091
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:40:22 -
[11] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:In fact the large majority of ships in eve would not even reach the escape velocity required to break away from earth which requires 11.2kps.
And now you know why the Atmospheric Flight designs for Eve were scrapped.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1989
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:50:20 -
[12] - Quote
Relative to what?
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
6512
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Posted - 2015.02.18 19:51:08 -
[13] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:HeXxploiT wrote:In fact the large majority of ships in eve would not even reach the escape velocity required to break away from earth which requires 11.2kps. And now you know why the Atmospheric Flight designs for Eve were scrapped.
Ship speeds have nothing to do with that, that's a matter of complex code, nothing more. There's no reason that unrealistic ship speeds would hinder atmospheric flight mechanics because reality doesn't factor into video game mechanics, only playability.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1452
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:03:33 -
[14] - Quote
Ship speeds were set to levels that make the game enjoyable and balanced to play. Man. That's really a mindblowing revelation, Edgar.
As for normal speed, eve spaceships go 0 m/s at normal speed, because they are neither normal nor real. If you're referring to the maximum speed of the ship, than warp drive IS its normal speed, as that is how the ship propels itself. You dont say that the normal speed of a lungfish is how fast it can wriggle on land when comparing it to how fast a pig can move, you compare it at it's top sustainable speed. Its normal.
So no, eve space ships are not slow. Even the absolute slowest of ships in Eve completely blows anything real and current out of the water. |
Varathius
Blood Fountain Massacre LOADED-DICE
157
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:15:15 -
[15] - Quote
as an aerospace engineer let me explain you all that .... lol
back on topic, I think it is best not to get too much involved into realism detail here (as hard as this will be for Asperger affected people), but eve ships behave as they would navigate under water and compared to modern day submarines on planet earth all I can say is that they are going dang fast. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15031
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:25:02 -
[16] - Quote
Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969
Casuals.
Voyager 1 is doing 61,000 km/h on by far the best road trip ever.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
19898
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:30:37 -
[17] - Quote
Im sure that Eve ships could easily attain such speeds if gravitational slingshots were a thing in Eve. Just orbit your Megathron around a moon for a few days and then burn at the correct time.
Alright gents, were going to kite the enemy next week, start your slingshot trajectories now.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6262
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:39:50 -
[18] - Quote
In real space real combat would be next to impossible.
There are only a few earth based systems that can shoot a rocket travelling at high speeds.
Hence I think the future will be lasers and "spall". Machines will "predict" where the target is going and rely on pattern bursts and "metalstorm" guns (multiple projectiles per cartridge).
Presently a guided air to air missile is supersonic, some I think fly at Mach 7 or more. But unless the target is coming or going it's not going to hit and even if faster than a target, there stands to be a good chance of running out of fuel before reaching it (assuming the target is tallied from "the usual distance" which is tens of miles).
If this were a true space sim game there would hardly be any PVP.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Artenso Vestindal
Dark Flames of Amarr
6
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:57:01 -
[19] - Quote
1. EVE Online isnt spaceship simulator but submarine simulator... (friction of vacuum leading to ship slowing after putting AB/MWD offline? Aligning horisontally when no movement? no, were are not in space, we are in water/ether/something other and we aree floating in there... And why else would you be limited to tens of kilometres in range of weaponry, when real life railguns that are currently ready for military uses have greater effective range in Earths gravitation field and with all variables of atmosphere than large railgun in EVE space? 2. if flying around, ranges,... still seems slow for you, multiply everything (distances, speed,...) by 100 or 1000. No big deal... |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
588
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Posted - 2015.02.18 21:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:In real space real combat would be next to impossible.
Not really, you just can't have dogfights or drones. Combat will look more like what we do in battleships at long range than anything else.
Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
301
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Posted - 2015.02.18 21:14:29 -
[21] - Quote
We are not playing a space game. We are playing Internet Submarines with a space-themed backdrop, and this is fine. |
Artenso Vestindal
Dark Flames of Amarr
6
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Posted - 2015.02.18 21:53:28 -
[22] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:In real space real combat would be next to impossible.
There are only a few earth based systems that can shoot a rocket travelling at high speeds.
Hence I think the future will be lasers and "spall". Machines will "predict" where the target is going and rely on pattern bursts and "metalstorm" guns (multiple projectiles per cartridge).
Presently a guided air to air missile is supersonic, some I think fly at Mach 7 or more. But unless the target is coming or going it's not going to hit and even if faster than a target, there stands to be a good chance of running out of fuel before reaching it (assuming the target is tallied from "the usual distance" which is tens of miles).
If this were a true space sim game there would hardly be any PVP.
Lets look on it realistically... Lasers? Maaaaybe... But i think beam dispersion would be too big for lasers to be used in space for military purpose.You would most likely be limited to few thousands of kilometres. What is an effective range of nowadays military lasers? 10km, maybe less?. Also energy needed for sufficient laser beam is just TOO DAMN HIGH! Guns? Maybe, I dont know what do normal guns use to burn its explosive propulsion for bullet. If this part of fuel would be provided in ammunition, i dont see much problems... Well, exept muzzle velocity would make its realistic rangehorrible... And its kinetic energy too... Rockets? Great idea! Liquid fuel, some small maneuvering thursters,... Would work great, but i am affraid it would take just too much space... All that fuel for main propulsion, for maneuvering, warhead, liquid oxygen (or whatever) for warhead, probably nuclear warhead? or something like HEAT? Possibly thungsten or something, pure kinetic energy might be good enought... Problems? Too expensive, resources consuming, large... Railguns? Yeah, EM guns would do wonder in space. They dont need any atmosphere, fuel,... just electromagnet. In way of energy consumption they take much less than lasers...
Possibilities of space combat? 1) Finding ship. Just try to find 100m object at 10000000km distance... 2) effective range. Not effective range of weapon, which is infinite (if you dont fire lasers, if you do, you are in kilometres...) but effective range to at least small possibility to hit. So lets say maximum of 30 light seconds distance, so something like 9000000km. Thats limit for missiles (you want to guid them to their target, right? Then you are limited by speed of light - how fast do you get information about target movement and give it to rocket to alter its path. It delay is too big, you will miss... 30s from target to you, 30s back, 1 minute delay could be quite accurate for spaceship battle) For railguns, currently tested ones have muzzle velocity around 2500m/s (thats quite good, compared to something around 1000 for conventional firearms). Lets say you might by some devevlopment get to... 50km/s... It would be extremely hard to hit somethign with so slow. Not impossible, but hard... So railguns might be few thousands of kilometres range. Simmilar to laser, maybe lasers wont be so bad after all with its physically limited range simmilar to range limitation of railgun for accuracy reasons. And lasers would be extremely accurate on this distances... This also show that standart minmatar-like weapon systems is by far inferior to everything else. Sorry, slaves, no place for you in spacecombat :D
I would say missiles would be only real option for space battles, otherwise it would be too hard to even get in range to fight. Congratulations to Caldari state |
hollywood118921
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.18 22:11:02 -
[23] - Quote
It could happen if there were thrusters at key parts in the ship to turn you |
Serene Repose
2266
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Posted - 2015.02.18 22:48:09 -
[24] - Quote
Well. Did you see the engine on that thing? Sure, it dropped off. But, if you want to talk speed, you have to talk the engine. It was a pre-catalytic converter modified Twin-V Harley. I think they kept the plush dice mirror hangers. Side note: They were runnin' with a Craig 8-Track playin' The Stone's Sticky Fingers...in QUAD!
Treason never prospers. What is the reason?
Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1429
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Posted - 2015.02.18 23:10:37 -
[25] - Quote
eve isn't a spaceship combat simulator
eve is a submarine combat simulator |
Memphis Baas
171
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Posted - 2015.02.18 23:47:10 -
[26] - Quote
We already have the sufficient brightness for background nebulas, so all we would need is just minor details here and there, and the "sky" can easily be made to look like a fishtank. |
Mori Dey
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.02.19 01:29:30 -
[27] - Quote
Speed is measured relative to another object. Your car drives 60 mph faster than the rotation of the earth. In reality it moves much faster. The earth rotates around the sun, the sun around the central black hole of the milky way and the galaxy moves away from where the big bang originated.
We have very fast cars. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1409
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 02:20:53 -
[28] - Quote
Eve may appear to be a submarine simulator.
It is really a "Rubber Duck in a bathtub simulator".
This can be demonstrated by examining the collision model and also the way your ship bobs up and down when parked near a celestial. |
Hal Morsh
Icendus Corux Warp to Cyno.
260
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:29:50 -
[29] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Edgar Erata wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Edgar Erata wrote:According to the 2002 Guinness World Records, Apollo 10 set the record for the highest speed attained by a manned vehicle at 39,897 km/h (11.08 km/s or 24,791 mph) during the return from the Moon on May 26, 1969 Did Apollo 10 have a warp drive that I didn't know about, because I have an Atron that'll zip across 20AU in a couple of seconds. Lol I was talking about ships in normal flight You're comparing video game mechanics to real physics. This is your error, because for the sake of gameplay, we have to keep things simple. There was an Xplane game about a decade back I remember playing that gave you a few hypothetical spacefighters and I remember putting them to the test with some friends. No engagement ever took place because whenever an intercept was attempted, the inertia was always too great for practical turning into the engagement. Not just that, but as we passed our intercept targets, they only appeared for a brief fraction of a second before disappearing from view behind us because they were just moving too damn fast relative to us. Ever since then, I've always wondered what a space combat game with real orbital physics might be like. You could, theoretically, engage ships in a high enough orbit with a proper intercept trajectory but if your targets were to see you coming, they could shift their orbit to avoid the intercept. Likewise, you could shift yours as well to set up a new intercept. But what might happen once you made engagement range? Well, if the orbit is too low, maneuvering of any kind might simply be out of the question, because you'd risk deorbiting and if your objective is to stay in space, you've got a problem. In that case, it might just be a straight-up shootout with whatever's coming to intercept you. With a high enough orbit though, some low-speed maneuvering might actually be possible, and you could well see some close-up space battle action, but the speeds of engagement relative to one another would have to be low, while your orbital speed could remain quite high. Each ship maneuvering around other ships, though, would be shifting its own orbit in the process to some degree or another, but that's the thing - EVE, like most other space games, doesn't bother with gravity, while reality does, and that complicates how real space combat might go down.
Play space engineers. The speed may be extremely limited but it's still a pain in the ass at attempting to speed towards and follow a NPC ship whilst being shot at. It goes something like this.
I'M GETTING CLOSER!! I'M GETTING CLOSER!! **** I CAN'T TURN AROUND FAST ENOUGH!!! Well now he's all the way over there..
Hitting things manually is just as difficult, and bringing your ship in close and adjusting your speed to his is a really great way to get shot up by it's automatic turrets if you don't end up smacking right into him anyways, which is also hard to do because usualy I just flew on by (while being shot at).
CCP - Outpost code is scary.
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permion
Second Battlegroup Nerfed Alliance Go Away
13
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Posted - 2015.02.19 03:38:56 -
[30] - Quote
I thought warp drive coils/whatever were always online. Which means you're always interacting with "extra matter". So if you completely shut down your warp drive you'd be able to kick Apollo 11's rear end.
Your crew would probably mutiny immediately after shutting down your standby warp drive.
Pretty sure your ships life expectancy would be a matter of days as well. Since you're litterally a sitting duck with a known trajectory, even if you did change course it's not like you can hide in space. Seriously what could be more delicious than a ship that can't run away. |
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