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Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:16:00 - [1] I've been a blasterfan my entire life. However feeling the need to try something new, I'm training for T2 Medium Autocannons. What are the differences? Orbit or keep distance? Stay at optimal or rely on the greater falloff? Ammo types to carry? Other loose ends I've forgotten? --------------
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:19:00 - [2] there isn't enough ammo in existance to keep autocannons firing so stock up on any and every type of ammo there is! Use the falloff luke... Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:23:00 - [3] The falloff of A/C's is your friend, generally you just sit there at the higher ends of your Web range (when using Med A/C's), using a bit of manual piloting to stay there, and just keep raining the rounds down on your target. Blasterboats cant reach oout and touch you back. ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:24:00 - [4] In the case of something like a stabber or vagabond, does it require a web? I've heard with something like 220's you don't need the web. --------------
Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:12:00 - [5] Anyone else want to wiegh in? --------------
Clavain Gobuchul Minmatar Neogen Industries	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:26:00 - [6] You might find this useful: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=59
Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:29:00 - [7] Thanks :) --------------
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:33:00 - [8] Bring a web :) Ammo types to carry are: Barrage, Hail, and Phased Plasma. Sometimes EMP, but Barrage should be your primary ammo. You see a hardcore shield tanker or T2 Amarr ship switch to Phased Plasma. Use falloff and your speed to give yourself an advantage of higher DPS at a longer range. And don't fly a Minnie ship without a MWD. :) Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Nir	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:39:00 - [9] Like others have said, use the fall off. As for ammo.. I personally use a mix of EMP/Fusion - 1 part EMP, 2 parts Fusion. Unless dealing with a heavy shield tanked ship. I also carry some Plasma around for T2 Amarr. Barrage for the added range, great versus blasters & droneboats. Hail is nice in gangs, despite its many penalties it can be a great source of extra DPS for when the need calls for it.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:41:00 - [10] If you are used to blasters, you will be so very, very disappointed with the damage of our autocannons.... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
lofty29 Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.10 16:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Twilight Moon The falloff of A/C's is your friend, generally you just sit there at the higher ends of your Web range (when using Med A/C's), using a bit of manual piloting to stay there, and just keep raining the rounds down on your target. Blasterboats cant reach oout and touch you back. But a decent thorax will jam you (ECM drones) and come rapez0r your ass --- Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting!
xlop Gallente Yes no maybe - i dont know	Posted - 2006.10.10 17:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor If you are used to blasters, you will be so very, very disappointed with the damage of our autocannons.... true, but the much much greater range coupled with the cap and speed kinda makes up for it. if only they fixed hail -- Imperial College London FTW --
Montolio Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2006.10.10 17:53:00 - [13] Edited by: Montolio on 10/10/2006 17:53:55 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Twilight Moon The falloff of A/C's is your friend, generally you just sit there at the higher ends of your Web range (when using Med A/C's), using a bit of manual piloting to stay there, and just keep raining the rounds down on your target. Blasterboats cant reach oout and touch you back. But a decent thorax will jam you (ECM drones) and come rapez0r your ass ECM doesn't let you come into range. A good Rupture pilot who knows what he's doing beats a Thorax with a regular setup (blasters, mwd, web, scramb, armor-tank, ecm/dmg drones). Edit: typo.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.10 18:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor If you are used to blasters, you will be so very, very disappointed with the damage of our autocannons... Ah but they sound so good, they almost make turning the sound back on worth it! Ratatatatatatata! :D ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Ruciza	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Ruciza on 10/10/2006 19:46:57 Use the falloff, use the falloff, use the falloff. Rubbish. Falloff=50% Hit Chance. Who wants a 50% Hit Chance if you can get better? It all depends. Sometimes the falloff doesn't matter, so don't use it. Golden Rule with all weapons, not only AC: Go as close to optimal as you possible can. There is nothing else.
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 10/10/2006 19:48:05 Use the falloff, use the falloff, use the falloff. Rubbish. Falloff=50% Hit Chance. Who wants a 50% Hit Chance if you can get better? It all depends. Often the falloff doesn't matter, so don't use it. Golden Rule with all weapons, not only AC: Go as close to optimal as you possibly can. There is nothing else. if falloff = 50% chance to hit then why not use it when your guns fire twice as fast? Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Montolio Edited by: Montolio on 10/10/2006 17:53:55 Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Twilight Moon The falloff of A/C's is your friend, generally you just sit there at the higher ends of your Web range (when using Med A/C's), using a bit of manual piloting to stay there, and just keep raining the rounds down on your target. Blasterboats cant reach oout and touch you back. But a decent thorax will jam you (ECM drones) and come rapez0r your ass ECM doesn't let you come into range. A good Rupture pilot who knows what he's doing beats a Thorax with a regular setup (blasters, mwd, web, scramb, armor-tank, ecm/dmg drones). Edit: typo. and if i dont use regular thorax setup ? if ui use uber ganka rax with 600 dps +? join me be cool
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.10.10 20:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 10/10/2006 19:48:05 Use the falloff, use the falloff, use the falloff. Rubbish. Falloff=50% Hit Chance. Who wants a 50% Hit Chance if you can get better? It all depends. Often the falloff doesn't matter, so don't use it. Golden Rule with all weapons, not only AC: Go as close to optimal as you possibly can. There is nothing else. This is why open forums are bad, idiots can come on and spout things that are completely wrong in every possible way and get heard just as much as those who know what they are talking about. Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Tara'Quoya Rax Black-Sun	Posted - 2006.10.10 20:57:00 - [19] True, but at least it separates the smart ppl from the dumb ppl...
Twin blade	Posted - 2006.10.10 21:13:00 - [20] The best way to use them is Load up ton's and tons of ammo and have 2-3 web's and just hope you don't run out of ammo
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.10 21:58:00 - [21] The guy who said falloff sucks is talking out their exhaust port. Falloff is the only thing that makes AC's useable. You MUST keep distance from blasterships to have ANY chance of winning. You get 50% accuracy. They get 0%. Simple maths. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.10 22:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/10/2006 22:13:38 Originally by: wierchas noobhunter and if i dont use regular thorax setup ? if ui use uber ganka rax with 600 dps +? The rupture can use its superior speed to stay out of web and blaster range but within range for barrage, thus destroying your gank-rax. EDIT: This could be carried over to the battleship level if only the range on normal warp disruptors was 30km. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.10 22:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Benglada on 10/10/2006 22:49:43 I dont usually use webs on my acs boats but a webb on an ac boat serves a different purpose: A web on an ac boat is used to keep your opponant at thier most dis advantaged range possible, while you pummel them in falloff The tracking of ac's is pretty good imo. Edit:if you are remotely close to your optimal, your doing something wrong, i try to stay as close to my max falloff as possible.. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Ruciza	Posted - 2006.10.10 23:20:00 - [24] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 10/10/2006 19:48:05 Use the falloff, use the falloff, use the falloff. Rubbish. Falloff=50% Hit Chance. Who wants a 50% Hit Chance if you can get better? It all depends. Often the falloff doesn't matter, so don't use it. Golden Rule with all weapons, not only AC: Go as close to optimal as you possibly can. There is nothing else. This is why open forums are bad, idiots can come on and spout things that are completely wrong in every possible way and get heard just as much as those who know what they are talking about. Now, Eve weapons are made of a handful of stats, as are ships. Even idiots like me are able to fully comprehend the strenghts and weaknesses of a items with a handful of stats. The only situation when you use falloff is when the opponent has blasters. Read my post again slowly. I highlighted the following: "It all depends." The enemy has blasters? Use falloff The enemy has ACs? Your choice The enemy has missiles? Don't use falloff The enemy has pulses? Don't use falloff The enemy has drones? Don't use falloff The enemy is long ranged? Don't use falloff All other considerations depend on your setup, your ship, and the enemy ship, and your ammo. The smart people in this open forum are only talking about possibility one: The enemy has blasters.
Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.10 23:52:00 - [25] Edited by: Benglada on 10/10/2006 23:52:59 The enemy has blasters? Use falloff The enemy has ACs? Your choice The enemy has missiles? Use Falloff due to him having a nos and webb, inhibiting your The enemy has pulses? Use falloff because pulses have terribly tracking, and to stay out of webb and nos range The enemy has drones? Use falloff, web+nos again The enemy is long ranged? Don't use falloff Fixed. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Inen Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.10.10 23:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 10/10/2006 23:28:42 Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 10/10/2006 19:48:05 Use the falloff, use the falloff, use the falloff. Rubbish. Falloff=50% Hit Chance. Who wants a 50% Hit Chance if you can get better? It all depends. Often the falloff doesn't matter, so don't use it. Golden Rule with all weapons, not only AC: Go as close to optimal as you possibly can. There is nothing else. This is why open forums are bad, idiots can come on and spout things that are completely wrong in every possible way and get heard just as much as those who know what they are talking about. Now, Eve weapons are made of a handful of stats, as are ships. Even idiots like me are able to fully comprehend the strenghts and weaknesses of items with a handful of stats. The only situation when you use falloff is when the opponent has blasters. Read my post again slowly. I highlighted the following: "It all depends." The enemy has blasters? Use falloff The enemy has ACs? Your choice The enemy has missiles? Don't use falloff The enemy has pulses? Don't use falloff The enemy has drones? Don't use falloff The enemy is long ranged? Don't use falloff All other considerations depend on your setup, your ship, and the enemy ship, and your ammo. The smart people in this open forum are only talking about possibility one: The enemy has blasters. And you are right, but the problem is you ended your statement with the golden rule being go to optimal range, basically negating everything else you said. But you are right, you did mention almost every situation. It was just misleading and it took me a second read to understand what you meant.
Ruciza	Posted - 2006.10.11 00:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Benglada Edited by: Benglada on 10/10/2006 23:52:59 The enemy has blasters? Use falloff The enemy has ACs? Your choice The enemy has missiles? Use Falloff due to him having a nos and webb, inhibiting your The enemy has pulses? Use falloff because pulses have terribly tracking, and to stay out of webb and nos range The enemy has drones? Use falloff, web+nos again The enemy is long ranged? Don't use falloff Fixed. That depends too. If he has Nos and web, why don't you have? The tracking of pulses is not that bad, remember that if you are at falloff, he is at optimal. Pulses at optimal track well enough. He is at 100% damage minus the worse tracking, you are at 50% damage. Your transversal speeds have to be ridiculously high, like 1500+, before AC damage is better at falloff than pulse at optimal. Web doesn't change the equation much, only that you do more optimal damage the closer you get. And don't forget that you have very good resists against EM as minnie. The rule if you go against pulse users is: Go as close as you can and Nos him!
Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation	Posted - 2006.10.11 01:52:00 - [28] I've heard a lot of vagabond and stabber setups that don't use Webs.. for instance, where they fit 1x mwd 1x small gistii booster 1x large shield extender 1x warp scrambler. Bad mojo? Old thread? Or unique to the ship? --------------
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.10.11 05:21:00 - [29] webber on a stabber or vaga is not a good idea... these ships, in the usual speed config, use their transversal to reduce incoming damage, to fit a webber mean you have to enter in the opponent web range to use it and if he have a webber too you are in big troubles. also a big part of tracking issues on these ships is their own speed so the webber can help but will not resolve all the tracking problems at max speed. for faloff... personally i think is a bit overrated, as someone alredy said in the post is the only thing that keep ACs usable, but this doesn't mean necessary that it is good. you get more range at expense of dps, imo not that good for a weapon that have alredy poor dps dps and we should consider also that tracking modules boost only the optimal, not the falloff.
Inen Minmatar OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.10.11 05:27:00 - [30] Just think of autocannons as ****ing with morning wood. It will shoot far, but it may not necessarily hit its target.
Benglada Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.11 06:11:00 - [31] Well, If your in an autoship that isnt insanely fast (Vaga,stabber) The only reason you will have a web on is for if when your opponant webs you, you can webb him, then get out of webb range again. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.10.11 07:06:00 - [32] Falloff != 50% chance to hit. Go back to the tracking part of the player guide. At optimal+falloff you have a 50% chance to hit, and you'll do less damage on top that isn't covered by that guide. Fight way above opt only if there's no other chance to do it. At opt+2xfalloff you'll have nearly no chance to hit and you'll land many near hits, err misses. Deactivate your guns. You'll just shoot holes into the void. At opt+1m you will fight at nearly 100% efficiency - as long as your tracking is good enough. Yay, the forum's still fubar. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.10.11 07:11:00 - [33] Yeah, just because you're in falloff doesnt mean right after optimal you take a 50% accuracy hit... it's a curve, not a line. BTW even Optimal + 2x falloff can be great, got a hit of 204 damage on a rax in a single shot w/ dual 650s using barrage and he was at ~43km. Optimal + Falloff is about 32 w/ barrage lol. BTW person w/ enyo in sig (sorry forgot name ♥ ) is right in the "when to use falloff" chart, other person is a noob. Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Ruciza	Posted - 2006.10.11 08:42:00 - [34] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Yeah, just because you're in falloff doesnt mean right after optimal you take a 50% accuracy hit... it's a curve, not a line. BTW person w/ enyo in sig (sorry forgot name ♥ ) is right in the "when to use falloff" chart, other person is a noob. And you are offlining half of your firepower for no good reason in a fight while calling those who don't "noobs" and "idiots".
Deviana Sevidon Gallente easyCredits O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.11 10:42:00 - [35] Everyone who says: "Use Optimal" should look at the Autocannon stats. A 220mm Vulcan Autocannon ll is a Cruiser sized weapon. Without Skills it has an optimal of 2.160 m and a fall-off of 8000 m. If you really want to use your optimal you have to go below 3km, and give up any speed advantage. If your opponent is using Blasters he will rip you to pieces. On the other hand, if you are using fall-off range you can stay out of webber-range and slowly turn him into shreds. Again, if you are going to into Autocannon optimal, your opponent will also be in his optimal and that will be the Death of your AC-Ship.
Ruciza	Posted - 2006.10.11 11:05:00 - [36] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Everyone who says: "Use Optimal" should look at the Autocannon stats. A 220mm Vulcan Autocannon ll is a Cruiser sized weapon. Without Skills it has an optimal of 2.160 m and a fall-off of 8000 m. If you really want to use your optimal you have to go below 3km, and give up any speed advantage. If your opponent is using Blasters he will rip you to pieces. On the other hand, if you are using fall-off range you can stay out of webber-range and slowly turn him into shreds. Again, if you are going to into Autocannon optimal, your opponent will also be in his optimal and that will be the Death of your AC-Ship. If your opponent is using blasters. Are all of your opponents using blasters?
Deviana Sevidon Gallente easyCredits O X I D E	Posted - 2006.10.11 11:30:00 - [37] Many of my opponents are using blaster. I am using them myself, so I have had first-hand experience. My questions are: Can you the same thing? Have you ever used an Autocannon in a PvP Situation? It is a lot of difference in putting a ship together using Quickfit and actually flying the same ship. @Port Hadlend. Use the falloff range. Against NPC or general use Phased Plasma is the best choice. Barrage or Fusion is best against armor tankers while Proton is the choice against Shield-Tankers.
Threefisted Olie	Posted - 2006.10.11 12:20:00 - [38] I put an ac on a raptor just now. Opti of 892m, fallof 4400m. Plugged the numbers into eve tracking guide calculator. Transversal of 1m/s=peak damage 0.82km 10m/s=0.91km 100m/s=1.55km 1000m/s=4.09km 2000m/s=5.64km This isn't rocket science. If you are in optimal, and your target has ANY transversal, your ac will not be able to track, and you will do less damage than you would if you were somewhere in falloff. How far in falloff depends on the amount of transversal. It doesn't matter if the other guy has blasters or snowball launchers.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.10.11 12:24:00 - [39] @Deviana: Where do your posts invalidate the 'Go for optimal range unless your opponent uses blasters.' stance? Where do you give up your speed when you go for a close range orbit (as long as your tracking is good enough and your opponent doesn't gain an advantage by blasters/webbers)? Seems it still holds true to go for optimal range as long as you're not handing out a great opportunity to rip you a new one to your oppenent. Sure you can hit at opt+2xfalloff. But your chance ti hit is really close to zero. And the damage cathegory will be horrible (unless you'-re landing a wrecking hit that is done by a fixed chance). You wont break the tank of a ship of the same size as yours at opt+2xfalloff unless you have a really lucky streak. But then you should hurry and play lotto anyway. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20

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