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Seifern	Posted - 2003.10.29 14:36:00 - [1] I was on the way for a pick up, when i jumped into a zone. well, i still had the tuning into space freq loading bar on my screen, when i hear explositions and lazers firing. when i finally get to see what is happening. i am jammed and in a huge pirate trap. i look at my ship health, i am half gone. Needless to say i died and got podded. There was a CRAP load of things on the screen. Droids, ships, cargo canisters. By the definition CCP gives of exploit: Quote: An exploit is when someone deliberately bypasses the normal game mechanics, by utilizing a bug, a weakness in the system or any other possible loophole in order to personally gain from it, and/or by intentionally use said means to take advantage of other players. I know the trap itself is NOT and exploit. But being fired upon before i even have control to do anything to my ship. What would that be then? Just looking for some feedback
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.10.29 14:38:00 - [2] It ain't an Exploit. [Heterocephalus glaber]
PropanElgen	Posted - 2003.10.29 14:51:00 - [3] Quote: It ain't an Exploit. What is it then, Einstein? All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
psychonaut	Posted - 2003.10.29 14:53:00 - [4] Tactics
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.10.29 14:57:00 - [5] Quote: Tactics What he said [Heterocephalus glaber]
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:00:00 - [6] Seifern, keep in mind the definition of PvP in eve: "Use any means necessary to lag your opponent as much as possible so you can kill him before he knows what's happening."
Othnark	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:06:00 - [7] Who posted that welcome to last week picture? Can we get a repost? -Othnark
Seifern	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:06:00 - [8] You know, i wouldn't even care if i had a fair shot. I mean hell. there trap would have got me hands down and a couple of feet too. I wish i knew the command for screen shot. they had SO much crap on the screen. it was actually kinda cool to see. Next time just wait like 5 seconds and THEN kill me
DATEK	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:12:00 - [9] Tactics my ass. It is using a weakness in the game to gain an unfair advantage over people who jump into systems and using this advantage to kill them before they can even see you. It a serious problem and needs to be addressed ASAP. In the mean time, the griefers are having a field day with it. DATEK CEO, Frog Morton Industries
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:14:00 - [10] Quote: You know, i wouldn't even care if i had a fair shot. I mean hell. there trap would have got me hands down and a couple of feet too. I wish i knew the command for screen shot. they had SO much crap on the screen. it was actually kinda cool to see. Next time just wait like 5 seconds and THEN kill me Then because of the game mechanics, you'd be gone. AP will pull anyone who has a destination set beyond the current system out of any ambush a good 85% of the time. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
var'ulfur	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:23:00 - [11] this problum i think is adressed in the next patch and they will not be abel to see your ship till your fully in the system also i think thier going to make ita total random jump in so you never come into a sector at the same place again. since the jumpgate is only a one way push with no enty gate it should put you at random places in system anyway. and pirates are cowards that only attack when thet know they cant lose. and if it looks bad they jump to a moon go off line. pirates have a place in the game i agree on that. but to say useing a weakness in the game to kill a person who has no way to even fight tatics is a bunch of bull turds.
Varia	Posted - 2003.10.29 15:34:00 - [12] Quote: I was on the way for a pick up, when i jumped into a zone. well, i still had the tuning into space freq loading bar on my screen, when i hear explositions and lazers firing. when i finally get to see what is happening. i am jammed and in a huge pirate trap. i look at my ship health, i am half gone. Needless to say i died and got podded. I can't say if how you died is an exploit or not, but I can tell you that sometimes the loading bar remains in the centre of your screen even after you have entered space and unless you close this box you will be unable to control your ship correctly. This happens to me every once in a while, just right click on box and select close. Oh and I almost forgot to mention, autopilot will still attempt to work even if the above problem occurs and as long as you have not reached your current destination. Women that strive to equal men lack ambition.
Salamon	Posted - 2003.10.29 16:42:00 - [13] Sorry to hear about your loss. While it is an extremly ugly way to lose a ship CCP doe snot consider it to be an exploit (trust me I have lost 2 BS this way). Apparently they consider it a TACTIC but they are aiming to change it in the next patch (or so they say) so that you will not appear in system until u are fully loaded into that system. I personaly think if it is not an exploit why fix it and if it is being fixed then just admit its a darn exploit but I guess thats why I am just a player not a GM.
Seifern	Posted - 2003.10.29 16:45:00 - [14] well from what varia says. it sounds like a bug. I figured i would get replies from both points of view. however, im sure if it happend to you, maybe you would me asking the same question. i ask you this, if this is in fact " working as intended" <-- eq's famous answer i wonder how many people would have signed up knowing that you could work real hard to get some isk and a ship but due to game mechanics, you could lose it all and not have a chance to defend yourself. HEY SIGN ME UP!
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.29 16:48:00 - [15] The problem is that all carebears has made CCP have a 10 second invulnerability time. Hence it's impossible to kill anyone in this game unless you can lag away that 10 second time. Blame CCP and the carebears. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.10.29 16:51:00 - [16] Quote: The problem is that all carebears has made CCP have a 10 second invulnerability time. Hence it's impossible to kill anyone in this game unless you can lag away that 10 second time. Blame CCP and the carebears. Uh, no, you saying if there was no invulnerability timer, people wouldn't use lag to their advantage?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:04:00 - [17] Jump-in camping is too easy now. Unless it is completely erradicated, no-one will choose to camp jumpgates or whever regardless of whatever changes CCP bring in UNLESS they nullify jump-in camping. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
NEMESISTER	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:06:00 - [18] If CP actually wanted to stop the spawn camping they would just place a few sentry guns at the spawn in locations. This would stop the camping. They would still be able to kill a few ships but not all that pass during a course of the whole day.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:09:00 - [19] three things: - It's not only pirates that use this method to snare enemies. - It doesn't happen as often as people make out. - Don't cry about pirates running when they know they could die. You'd run too, if an overwhelming force turned up. That's common sense, and complaining about it won't put you any higher on the intelligence ladder. .
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:18:00 - [20] Quote: Quote: The problem is that all carebears has made CCP have a 10 second invulnerability time. Hence it's impossible to kill anyone in this game unless you can lag away that 10 second time. Blame CCP and the carebears. Uh, no, you saying if there was no invulnerability timer, people wouldn't use lag to their advantage? Kinda, yes. How many battles in this game are fought with equal fleets? Not many. Hence you not really need the lag to win a battle. But lag is needed to be able to stop an enemy from running. So if there were no invulnerability time, people could camp gates/stations and go out and attack players in the belts, instead of having to camp a jump in point to be able to lock the opponent. Thereby not saying none would camp jump in points. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:20:00 - [21] All you have to do is open the big map and do a little research before jumping to 0.0 systems. It's no ones fault but your own for falling into such traps. The map will clearly show you the trouble spots. So next time you blow up and think, "what the hell was that all about?".. Open the big map, color the stars by Ships Destroyed in last 24 hours, and you will have your answer. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:31:00 - [22] Quote: Sorry to hear about your loss. While it is an extremly ugly way to lose a ship CCP doe snot consider it to be an exploit (trust me I have lost 2 BS this way). Apparently they consider it a TACTIC ... CCP explicitly state that this is an exploit. They make a point of stating (I forget where, offhand ) that any method which involved making use of any feature in the game which isn't intended to be there, is an exploit. Well .. you're supposed to jump in at the gate, not in the middle of nowhere. Setting up a camping spot in the middle of nowhere because you know that ppl will jump in there when they're not supposed to, is, explicitly, an exploit. That said, CCP seem quite happy to contradict themselves by declaring that it isn't an exploit and not taking action against the perpetrators. So we're all kinda screwed. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.10.29 17:33:00 - [23] Quote: Quote: Quote: The problem is that all carebears has made CCP have a 10 second invulnerability time. Hence it's impossible to kill anyone in this game unless you can lag away that 10 second time. Blame CCP and the carebears. Uh, no, you saying if there was no invulnerability timer, people wouldn't use lag to their advantage? Kinda, yes. How many battles in this game are fought with equal fleets? Not many. Hence you not really need the lag to win a battle. But lag is needed to be able to stop an enemy from running. So if there were no invulnerability time, people could camp gates/stations and go out and attack players in the belts, instead of having to camp a jump in point to be able to lock the opponent. Thereby not saying none would camp jump in points. It'd still take a good 6+ seconds for a battleship to lock something, and time to move within 20km of the target to jam it, so I don't think you'd see any difference in tactics.
dalman	Posted - 2003.10.29 18:24:00 - [24] ehm, 6+ for a battleship without neither skill trained or sensor booster on. A Caldari battleship (slowest) is easy to get down to 2.7 seconds. A cruiser can lock in 1 second. A frigate can lock in 0.5 seconds. And why wouldn't you already be within 20km range from the beginning? Or even 10km so he can't MWD past? M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.10.29 18:37:00 - [25] Because if as you said in your example, you go into a belt, you will most likely NOT warp in right on top of the target. Then of course, people could easily jump to a random planet/moon before coming to a gate, which would give them a good chance of warping in outside the 20km warp jammer and 10km webifier range. And coming out of stations with no lag gives you plenty of time to hit the autopilot button before you're jammed. My point is, people would figure out how to counter the tactics and run away in 0 lag situtaions, and then people that want to kill someone will again resort to lag, as it'd be the only way of guaranteeing kills. Of course there is almost no such thing as a 0 lag situation in the game yet, since just having 5+ ships in an area already slows loading time down...
Laer	Posted - 2003.10.29 19:56:00 - [26] I just have to point out that I have had several times when people have tried to do this to me in my Scorpion. Every time I have easily walked out, taking minimal damage. And, as was stated above, check you map. You can look for the number of pilots in space, and be prepared. If there are 20 guys in a 0.0 system in the middle of nowhere, I think that is a clue. Besides, if you are going in to 0.0, you need to be prepared.
Seifern	Posted - 2003.10.29 20:11:00 - [27] just some FYI 1. the system was a .4 not 0.0 2. i didnt know that about the map ( thank you this should help in the future) 3. I was in an osprey. No chance of withstanding that bombardment. the question was is this an exploit or bug. seemed to get a bit off topic, but i like the input.
Bexxly	Posted - 2003.10.29 20:24:00 - [28] Quote: and pirates are cowards that only attack when thet know they cant lose That really is a monumentally stupid thing to say
Xander Teg	Posted - 2003.10.29 20:35:00 - [29] Edited by: Xander Teg on 29/10/2003 20:35:22 Quote: quote: ------------------------------------------------ and pirates are cowards that only attack when thet know they cant lose ------------------------------------------------ That really is a monumentally stupid thing to say No No Bexxly, its totally true. I mean sacking a Regional alliance when you are outnumbered 2 to 1 is perhaps the most cowardly thing i have ever heard of, dreamed about, or seen on television. _________________ "For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack." -Rudyard Kipling
Endorphin	Posted - 2003.10.29 20:40:00 - [30] Jump in camping and lag tactics are an exploit. Hence why CCP is addressing the issue next patch.
Gildon	Posted - 2003.10.29 20:50:00 - [31] Actually according to CCP's definition of an exploit, it IS an exploit. CCP is NOT considering it an exploit because they know the incredible outcry of 'replace my ship' would happen. Then they'd actually have to take responsibility for some terrible coding of theirs. So lets call a spade a spade - it IS a tactic used by pirates. It DOES exploit bad coding/design.....by definition it IS an exploit. AND IN TRUE CCP FASHION - since they can't stop it and dont want to replace ships and would have a firestorm of bad public relations, they RE-DEFINE it as NOT an exploit. And to be fair, we can't expect them to actually 'document' anything - because that way we could call them on it. Show me security status documentation. Show me 1.0 attack rules documentation (see other thread) Show me documentation on stealing bp's due to bad coding glitch in divisions for companies. Show me how the market 'really' works documentation etc. G
Seifern	Posted - 2003.10.30 12:21:00 - [32] Quote: Actually according to CCP's definition of an exploit, it IS an exploit. CCP is NOT considering it an exploit because they know the incredible outcry of 'replace my ship' would happen. Then they'd actually have to take responsibility for some terrible coding of theirs. So lets call a spade a spade - it IS a tactic used by pirates. It DOES exploit bad coding/design.....by definition it IS an exploit. AND IN TRUE CCP FASHION - since they can't stop it and dont want to replace ships and would have a firestorm of bad public relations, they RE-DEFINE it as NOT an exploit. And to be fair, we can't expect them to actually 'document' anything - because that way we could call them on it. Show me security status documentation. Show me 1.0 attack rules documentation (see other thread) Show me documentation on stealing bp's due to bad coding glitch in divisions for companies. Show me how the market 'really' works documentation etc. G Well it seems to me that there player base knows this is an exploit. WE get a Thank you for pointing this out to us. we will fix it in the next patch, however if you died due to this you will not get your stuff back. I have been back and forth with a petition about this going on 2 days. 3 different gm's answer half way through the petition. 1 says it is Boarderlinr exploit. others say no. 1 told me that it loads faster for some people then others. understood. NOONE has said. hey them being able to shoot you before you fully load in the system. Yeah that is a bug. we are fixing it. here is your stuff. thanxs for helping us make eve better. does anyone know if gm's read these boards? if you are a gm and reading this. You guys are not doing your job. fix your bugs and exploits which makes it fun for everyone and you get to have your job longer
Deadflip2	Posted - 2003.10.30 12:25:00 - [33] Quote: I was on the way for a pick up, when i jumped into a zone. well, i still had the tuning into space freq loading bar on my screen, when i hear explositions and lazers firing. when i finally get to see what is happening. i am jammed and in a huge pirate trap. i look at my ship health, i am half gone. Needless to say i died and got podded. There was a CRAP load of things on the screen. Droids, ships, cargo canisters. By the definition CCP gives of exploit: Quote: An exploit is when someone deliberately bypasses the normal game mechanics, by utilizing a bug, a weakness in the system or any other possible loophole in order to personally gain from it, and/or by intentionally use said means to take advantage of other players. I know the trap itself is NOT and exploit. But being fired upon before i even have control to do anything to my ship. What would that be then? Just looking for some feedback it IS and exploit well the costomer guy i talked to did say that.. but ccp wotn admit it becouse it doesnt get logged and therefore they cant be sure if ur lying or not --- "this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me. I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist OMG im a pretzel!!!
Archemedes	Posted - 2003.10.30 13:00:00 - [34] Is it an exploit? Well, yes... maybe. It is certainly a bug, but the problem is that some people load before they get shot, and others don't. It depends on connection speed, latency, server lag at that instant, and probably a bunch of other things. So there's no way for the campers to KNOW for sure if you're lagged or not, since they have to lock and fire the instant they see you to have any chance at all to make a kill. And since there's no way for CCP to know if you loaded before or after the shooting started, it can't be considered an official "exploit" (since it can't be proven). It's one of those borderline cases that all we can do is gripe about and hope that CCP makes the required code changes (which would take a few hours, tops ) to prevent. What certainly IS an exploit is deploying things to cause extra lag, but again... it's very hard to prove. After all, drones DO have valid uses in combat, and cans MIGHT be the useless items left from former victims (hey, I don't buy it either, but the pirates claim it sometimes)... Again, very hard / impossible to prove, so CCP can't call it an official "exploit" unless they do something insane like drop 500 cans and 50 derelict noob ships. And to be fair, I do see the pirates' side of this. I've never camped a gate or jump-in (ug, the BOREDOM!) but I imagine the sequence goes something like: 1) See a new name appear in Local 2) Quickly try to spot the ship (or if you're lucky, you see the ship arrive) 3) Lock on and try to scramble before their autopilot kicks in I would imagine it's quite a click-fest to get them locked and shut down in the few seconds before they warp out, so if you worry about waiting to make sure they aren't lagged you'll lose almost all your victims. Personally, I'd stop camping if I killed EVERYONE who jumped in before they had a chance to do anything (as it would be obvious that lag was involved), but then I'm too nice a guy to ever be any good at piracy.
Albar Gray	Posted - 2003.10.30 13:17:00 - [35] I escaped BioMass jump in camping at Sarum twice. And it wasn't the AP that saved me but my trusty MWD's, afterburners, nanofibres, overdrives and the fact that I was in a battle ship. (6+ km/s is a life saver) In both instances I was already taking damage, and the AP was disabled (Warp scrambled i assume) before the black loading screen had gone. The damage I sustained before i left them eating engine flare was easily enough to kill any indy or frigate, a cruiser might have survived. Indeed some would not have survived till the loading screen had cleared. I don't mind pirates waiting in the trade lanes for easy prey, and I don't expect them to take on tough fights if they don't need to. But I do see this as an exploit, because they must know that the arriving ships are have no chance to react and are 'lagged' out while arriving. They can't have missed all the posts in these forums. That said I now use Sarum as a main stopping point. I log on in system and undock, so the AP arrives me at a station when I go through the system. And when I'm ready to quit I return to Sarum and dock again. I suppose this is an exploit as well, as now both BioMass and I are using the weaknesses of the travel system to our advantage. ----------------------------------------------- IÆm not schizophrenic... ThatÆs my alt
Dark Nyte	Posted - 2003.10.30 13:33:00 - [36] On thing that confuses me (I have to admit i have never been in PvP situation) Can not the pirates disrupt your warp? (or is that disabled during this ten second invurablity)? and thus not need the lag ? Also (I'm guilty of this too) when ever i see post similar to this the pirates complain because the can't kill people at place-X and others complain that its too easy for them to kill people a same place? whats going in on is someone lying? Could it be that CCP actually have tha balence right ? and we just don't realise it? and we all just want our lives to be easier (having said that a repeat again I have'nt had PvP even though I've been in 0.0 space so I really don't know)
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2003.10.30 19:29:00 - [37] Quote: On thing that confuses me (I have to admit i have never been in PvP situation) Can not the pirates disrupt your warp? (or is that disabled during this ten second invurablity)? and thus not need the lag ? Also (I'm guilty of this too) when ever i see post similar to this the pirates complain because the can't kill people at place-X and others complain that its too easy for them to kill people a same place? whats going in on is someone lying? There's no way of disrupting a warp in progress; if you meant, scrambling you before you go into warp, no, they can't do that until the 10-second invulnerability timer is up. It's next to impossible for a pirate to sneak up on anybody and shoot at them; and because of the 10 second invul. timer, their prey can warp to a gate, see the ships, and warp away again before they are in any danger. The only place you can ambush anybody as things stand, is at the jump-in point in the middle of nowhere. And if you do this in a system where the jumpgates are guarded by sentry guns, that's using an exploit, because the jump-in point is supposed to be at the jumpgate. In short, pirates either exploit, or don't pirate. Which is why they complain, and is also why non-pirates complain about the ones who resorted to exploiting. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Tease	Posted - 2003.10.30 20:19:00 - [38] Quote: In short, pirates either exploit, or don't pirate. Which is why they complain, and is also why non-pirates complain about the ones who resorted to exploiting. No, there's real pirates out there who actually patrol belts in 0.4 and below and demand money/cargo from you before opening fire, etc.. True, there's only like 3 of them, but they still exist.. Anyway, you're one of the biggest carebears in the game anyway Baldour, don't know why you're even commenting. ----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way
Graffix	Posted - 2003.10.30 20:55:00 - [39] I thought, and could be wrong, that the main problem is that there is no 10 second timer when u spawn (load) into a system, and that the only time you have 10 seconds of invulnerabilty is when coming out of a warp.
Belzavior	Posted - 2003.10.30 21:07:00 - [40] What I'ld like to see is a warp nullification devise. It operates in a sphere(say 50km radius) and pulls ships out of warp, and prevents warp (even you and your gangmambers) for an x amount of time. The module would have to require alot of capacitor usage and not able to be turned off immediately(thus you couldn't flip the switch and run away when things get bad) I would also think this module should make your ship immobile upon use, thus you couldn't just keep following someone so they couldn't ever get free of the anti-warp field. Combine this with haveing your ship spawn only after you load would go along way to helping pvp, and that it wouldn't any longer be relying on lag exploits to make kills. Also players would have some kind of chance.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2003.10.30 22:22:00 - [41] Quote: No, there's real pirates out there who actually patrol belts in 0.4 and below and demand money/cargo from you before opening fire, etc.. True, there's only like 3 of them, but they still exist.. I'm aware that they exist, but it's effectively impossible for them to play there trade ... as soon as the potential victim sees them anywhere nearby, he's gone. Quote: Anyway, you're one of the biggest carebears in the game anyway Baldour, don't know why you're even commenting. Because I want to see a system where pirates CAN do precisely as you suggest, without the potential victim vanishing into thin air snickering at them. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Igwilve	Posted - 2003.10.30 23:25:00 - [42] Someone tried to lag cap me just yesterday (a 0.4 system in Molden Heath), but my auto-pilot kept my little frigate going before the Ogre or the warp scramblers could act. So, when passing through areas where you might get lag camped, just set the auto-pilot to go one system past the one you want. That said, I'm curious as to whether I could have outrun the guy without my warp drive. I make 800m/s with full afterburner in that thing.
Tease	Posted - 2003.10.31 00:15:00 - [43] Quote: Because I want to see a system where pirates CAN do precisely as you suggest, without the potential victim vanishing into thin air snickering at them. nah, you're just a big fluffy carebear. that likes unicorns ----------------------------------------- [2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level? [2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you [2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way
Captain Flex	Posted - 2003.10.31 01:23:00 - [44] I think you guys are kind of missing the point: The act of ambushing someone on the way into the station isn't an exploit. However, having a rating of -5.0 or lower and being permitted to fly around empire space freely, seems to me in my book, either a bug or a big error. If I'm out in 0.0 I expect to be ambushed, but when I'm travelling in my cruiser doing a couple of agent missions being ambushed is ussually the last thing on my mind. In any case, if that type of ambush works, then why not use it, I would.
Archemedes	Posted - 2003.10.31 06:55:00 - [45] Quote: What I'ld like to see is a warp nullification devise. It operates in a sphere(say 50km radius) and pulls ships out of warp, and prevents warp (even you and your gangmambers) for an x amount of time. The module would have to require alot of capacitor usage and not able to be turned off immediately(thus you couldn't flip the switch and run away when things get bad) I would also think this module should make your ship immobile upon use, thus you couldn't just keep following someone so they couldn't ever get free of the anti-warp field. Combine this with haveing your ship spawn only after you load would go along way to helping pvp, and that it wouldn't any longer be relying on lag exploits to make kills. Also players would have some kind of chance. Actually, the devs are planning on introducing just such an item in the form of an anchorable warp disruptor. It was mentioned in a dev blog. Bounty hunters and pirates will both be very happy when those come in...
Twisted Whispers	Posted - 2003.10.31 07:34:00 - [46] Jump-in camping is lame as hell; 0-skill PvP. Anyone who uses it is using a flaw in the game mechanics to their advantage; which equates to an Exploit by any definition. The idiots defending the "tactic" are just that; idiots. Frankly, I don't care if "pirates" haven't the ability to catch people at jumpgates; that's for CCP to address. Using Exploits is never justified.

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