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Bak
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.02.27 15:37:51 -
[121] - Quote
Genesis looks kind of dumb |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
217
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 16:41:43 -
[122] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Brutus Utama wrote:As a fairly new player who has no experience using the "skynet" advantage i disagree with it being removed...
they should have limited it to bandwith as said earlier in this thread per 25mb bandwith you should be able to field 1 assigned fighter so vexor for example can 4 a harbinger can take 2 and most frigates can take 0 etc etc.... this is still a nerf but also not so badly it makes everyone flip their **** and claim caps are useless ( i wouldnt know i dont have the skills to fly one), wasnt the original argument that small ships using the fighters was the issue....? so they remove the biggest advantage of carriers altogether?
also if you know a system has assigned fighters in just ignore it and go elsewhere....there is hundreds of systems out there they dont all have a carrier assigning fighters...
if they are removing off grid fighters then it would only make sense to remove off grid boosters aswell... i have often seen a loki/confessor arrive in system loki cloaks up confessor runs around with huge boosts to speed sig shield etc and the loki is 100% safe whilst cloaked is this not basically the same thing as "skynetting"... getting a bonus from a ship which is 100% safe and not on grid... Exactly. They have so many options that they could use that would kill the thing they want to kill ("skynet") without totally screwing over carriers and fighters (for pvp and pve), and the option they choose is the one that...totally screws over carrier and fighters for pvp and pve lol.
That's just a huge pile of bullshyt. Before the fighter/drones balance pass the assign mechanic was barely being used by anyone ... yet, now CCP is totally screwing over super and carrier pilots?
CCP says they don't like it from a design point of view and for once that's a 100% valid call. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6319
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 16:43:48 -
[123] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:I have no opinion on this but reminder that hunting the carrier is impossible with the new "deadspace safe spot" tactic. And what may i ask is that? It isn't new, it exists since there is gated deadspace area or dungeons as CCP calls them. It only became more popular since Burner missions and Skynet. It is simple, get into a Ceptor and burn out in any gated deadspace area until you can warp to your Ceptor again and don't land on the gate. Then turn your Ceptor around until you hit the invisible border, it can be 10k to 30k km from the main grid depending on the dungeon. Mark the border, get +3km out, warp your Carrier to your Ceptor and slowboat your Carrier into the "can't be warped to area". As long as the dungeon is active you can't be warped to directly and have plenty of time to react if some probes you and tries via align to the probed bookmark to catch your Carrier.
Ahhh the creativity of the nullbears.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9954
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 16:45:15 -
[124] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:
That's just a huge pile of bullshyt. Before the fighter/drones balance pass the assign mechanic was barely being used by anyone ... yet, now CCP is totally screwing over super and carrier pilots?
CCP says they don't like it from a design point of view and for once that's a 100% valid call.
See that bolded part. That means the THING THAT ALREADY EXISTED didn't cause the problem, the 'balance pass' did. So if you have 2 things (1 thing that causes a problem and 1 thing that doesn't cause a problem) who in hell does it make sense to change the thing that didn't cause the problem?
Creative people found uses for the fighter delegation mechanic before CCP muffed it up with drone mods/bonuses. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
217
|
Posted - 2015.02.27 16:49:40 -
[125] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ab'del Abu wrote:
That's just a huge pile of bullshyt. Before the fighter/drones balance pass the assign mechanic was barely being used by anyone ... yet, now CCP is totally screwing over super and carrier pilots?
CCP says they don't like it from a design point of view and for once that's a 100% valid call.
See that bolded part. That means the THING THAT ALREADY EXISTED didn't cause the problem, the 'balance pass' did. So if you have 2 things (1 thing that causes a problem and 1 thing that doesn't cause a problem) who in hell does it make sense to change the thing that didn't cause the problem? Creative people found uses for the fighter delegation mechanic before CCP muffed it up with drone mods/bonuses.
CCP wanted to make fighters a viable weapons platform, which they successfully did with the drone rebalancing. What they didn't intend to happen was skynet. So they're removing it ... makes sense to me :P
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
403
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Posted - 2015.02.27 17:26:24 -
[126] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:I have no opinion on this but reminder that hunting the carrier is impossible with the new "deadspace safe spot" tactic. And what may i ask is that? It isn't new, it exists since there is gated deadspace area or dungeons as CCP calls them. It only became more popular since Burner missions and Skynet. It is simple, get into a Ceptor and burn out in any gated deadspace area until you can warp to your Ceptor again and don't land on the gate. Then turn your Ceptor around until you hit the invisible border, it can be 10k to 30k km from the main grid depending on the dungeon. Mark the border, get +3km out, warp your Carrier to your Ceptor and slowboat your Carrier into the "can't be warped to area". As long as the dungeon is active you can't be warped to directly and have plenty of time to react if some probes you and tries via align to the probed bookmark to catch your Carrier.
Heh, I had forgotten you can align to the probed bookmark. Not impossible then to catch the carrier but certainly quite the feat.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Thayden Reid Nordic
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
7
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Posted - 2015.02.28 02:20:50 -
[127] - Quote
I lost a Naga on Station undock, literally AS I undocked. I saw two LITTLE frigates on my overview, and thought, "Meh.." Then I saw them targeting me and thought, "That's cute." But as I was in a fast lock frig popper, I decided to dock up to be safe. (I had JUST undocked, mind you) Next thing I know, I'm in structure, and POOF! No more Naga. It took looking at the killmail to realize the frigs had fighters assigned to them. And that was my 2nd day in Null Sec. |
HarlyQ
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
66
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Posted - 2015.02.28 03:46:47 -
[128] - Quote
Thayden Reid Nordic wrote:I lost a Naga on Station undock, literally AS I undocked. I saw two LITTLE frigates on my overview, and thought, "Meh.." Then I saw them targeting me and thought, "That's cute." But as I was in a fast lock frig popper, I decided to dock up to be safe. (I had JUST undocked, mind you) Next thing I know, I'm in structure, and POOF! No more Naga. It took looking at the killmail to realize the frigs had fighters assigned to them. And that was my 2nd day in Null Sec.
Welcome to nullsec :) I'm looking forward to this nerf though it is exciting no more ratting tengus with fighters assigned so excited. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2015.02.28 05:08:06 -
[129] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Daerrol wrote:I find it interesting the only people I have seen IN GAME complain about skynet are notorious station campers and gang bangers. Whenever I found a skynet system, I just didn't go in there unless I wanted to die. I suppose it's annoying in the way it's annoying to a three year old to be told not to go into his parents room, but there are literally thousands of systems to visit, many uninhabited. If you were looking for a fair fight, Skynet users were never going to give you one to begin with... Those fighters will become an ECM Alt fast enough (Something I personally despise FAR more than assigned fighters) Yeah, people whined even though the tactic was severely limited in scope. I don't think I ever once saw someone freely roaming around in that sort of setup with a gang wrecking anything in their path making sure no one was safe. Nope, it's just limited to a defensive position in an entity's home system. And instead of just going around, they have to cry.
Or you can just anchor a tower in a popular FW nexus/pipeline system, drop a carrier next to it and assign fighters to an instalocking ceptor sitting on a gate to farm kills all day whilst risking nothing but a 30M ISK ceptor, secure in the knowledge that going around you requires a 10 jump detour and that none of the local FW entities will be able to muster the firepower to knock down your POS.
You abused it for easy kills and now it's gone. Now go on, I just know there's a gate somewhere in null that's feeling neglected.
So much tears. I love it. God forbid I HAVE TO RISK MY SHIP TO GET KILLS. |
mannyman
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
4
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Posted - 2015.02.28 11:24:08 -
[130] - Quote
First of all, I have to say I am deeply disappointed with CCP for just "removing" the functionality. I will give you all the reason for it here:
There are different mechanics in play in lowsex and Nullsec today:
Lowsec:
* Possible to stay outside dickstar with carrier or super carrier and dip into shields within 20 sec if something happens on grid.
* Super is not web-able, so super gets in. Carrier can be webbed
* Possible to sit at online POS with no forcefield, open the management window and enter password and shield goes up if something happens on grid.
* NO bubbles allowed in Lowsec. This means, the delegated/assigned fighters nerf makes SENSE in Lowsec as it is too overpowered vs the risk. It is fair to say it is "safer" to use carrier/super on grid in a fight in Lowsec.
* Lowsec does NOT have structure grinding which it has in nullsec. No SBU's, TCU's, Ihubs, stations to shoot.
NullSec:
* Carrier and Super can be bubbled by a 40m isk interdictor, and get tackled.
* Fighters can NOT track a fast moving agile ship if tank is in lowslots and mids.
* Alot of stucture grinding compared to nullsec
* Due to the fact that a super carrier drones can not track a cheap 40m interdictor, a "safer" environment with lower dps should be allowed for a 30b ship incl fittings.
* Therefore the POS mechanic as sitting outside POS should be ALLOWED to delegate fighters (not the bombers), mabye minimum 20km off the POS forcefield. Still exposing the super carrier and can be tackled. It is all about a players preparations with the POS that can save him.
General:
* Sitting next to online POS with no forcefield, seems to me as a exploit. I used it myself to jump supers and carriers around, and it is fairly safe to move like that with a small POS, launch a cyno next to online stick, and once carriers are on grid, enter password and shield is up. This functionality should be removed together with delegating fighters that close to the POS stick itself.
There is alot of fun a single player can do with delegated fighters in nullsec, lots of fun small fights because of it. whether you loose or win. I agree to expose the super carrier or carrier more, but not nerf it totally from nullsec. I can easy see why this should be nerfed in lowsec, as there are no structure grinding done there, so if you want to gate camp with fighters, ok, expose your super or carrier on that gate, as you can not get bubbled. But in nullsec you get bubbled easily. You should still be able to get tackled/bubbled and exposing super/carrier more in null, but again, removing the delegation/assignment of fighters in null is totally unreasonable as it is a fun mechanic for all parties.
What CCP will see if they remove delegation/assignment in null, is that they will only see subcap fights, no cap fights, as cap usage only will be used when system is safe or no hostile fleet is near. so stacking up more supers in game is gonna happen. Supers will not be used for ratting where you assign/delegate fighters anymore, so it wont get exposed with that, unless someone uses a super on grid offcourse.
There will be more nullsec stagnation due to this nerf.
The fights will be done when its "safer", wait a few days until attack happens again.
repeat - repeat - rinse - die - repeat subcaps.
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Jori McKie
TURN LEFT
The Camel Empire
212
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Posted - 2015.02.28 12:45:09 -
[131] - Quote
You are wrong on so many levels not even funny, most importantly Fighters do track and one volley Frigs, Cruiser.
Read this blog from Gorski:
http://gorsking.blogspot.de/2015/02/****-skynet.html
Better get your facts straight next time
You don't need a POS/station to set up Skynet read this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5532655#post5532655
Yep, safespots galore.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
30659
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 12:50:00 -
[132] - Quote
lol. Someone is obviously the brightest rock in the pile.
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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mannyman
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
4
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Posted - 2015.02.28 17:42:27 -
[133] - Quote
I wrote this: Fighters can NOT track a fast moving agile ship if tank is in lowslots and mids
If you setup tracking yes, you can one volley fast going frigs. but then u have to drop some of the tank.
Interesting to see someone saying its wrong in so many ways without stating the fact ! |
Suitonia
Genos Occidere
Warlords of the Deep
462
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 20:10:59 -
[134] - Quote
mannyman wrote:I wrote this: Fighters can NOT track a fast moving agile ship if tank is in lowslots and mids If you setup tracking yes, you can one volley fast going frigs. but then u have to drop some of the tank. Interesting to see someone saying its wrong in so many ways without stating the fact ! Safespots are really not safespots, they are probe-able. Any decent pvper with respect for himself, atleast a super hunting dictor, has combat probes.. easy peasy. I do own a super toon and super, and I have tried many times to get my fighters hit agile ships. Only way to take my own fast going frigs is to setup good tracking, 2 omnis in lows, and 2-3 omis with tracking script in mid. Even then, the drones dont hit that good. with more tracking you drop tank, so that isnt an option either.
There is absolutely no need for tank however as the Invulnerable POS Forcefield is your tank.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
140
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 23:37:07 -
[135] - Quote
Quote:. i have often seen a loki/confessor arrive in system loki cloaks up confessor runs around with huge boosts to speed sig shield etc and the loki is 100% safe whilst cloaked is this not basically the same thing
thats not how it works at all |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
30668
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 23:38:48 -
[136] - Quote
Looking at my last loss again I noticed a thanatos and nyx on it (for the first time). What you don't see on the kill parade is the archon they had in triage at the undock. And I thought the archon was bad. lol. black legion best legion.
come to think of it, BL and PL are getting kicked squarely in the groinds repeatedly over these last several months.
(camping out a revenant for two months is not gameplay m8s)
Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
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Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
140
|
Posted - 2015.02.28 23:46:13 -
[137] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:mannyman wrote:I wrote this: Fighters can NOT track a fast moving agile ship if tank is in lowslots and mids If you setup tracking yes, you can one volley fast going frigs. but then u have to drop some of the tank. Interesting to see someone saying its wrong in so many ways without stating the fact ! Safespots are really not safespots, they are probe-able. Any decent pvper with respect for himself, atleast a super hunting dictor, has combat probes.. easy peasy. I do own a super toon and super, and I have tried many times to get my fighters hit agile ships. Only way to take my own fast going frigs is to setup good tracking, 2 omnis in lows, and 2-3 omis with tracking script in mid. Even then, the drones dont hit that good. with more tracking you drop tank, so that isnt an option either. There is absolutely no need for tank however as the Invulnerable POS Forcefield is your tank.
are people really denying the fact that people are sitting in the supers poking out of of the pos shield, forgoing tank instead of full wrack of drone mods?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
16154
|
Posted - 2015.03.01 10:37:58 -
[138] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Ab'del Abu wrote:Rroff wrote:Sigh... nerf into ground != balance... The only way to properly balance them (that I can think of) would have been to have boni from drone damage amplifiers, tracking computers and so forth not apply off grid. But I guess that's not something that CCP could have implemented easily, if at all, or else they probably would have done it. at this point CCP just needs to ball up and remove every capital from the game because as it is every time capitals come up, its a nerf, nerf nerf nerf. hell, the titan is literally a bus, it has next to 0 combat use unless the enemy has their own cap fleet, that is usually more effective to just counter with dreads anyways, for the most part capitals and subs even on the same grid at this point are fighting separate fights, because of all the restrictions on who can damage what for *balance* its a joke. just ******* delete them if you want them to be nothing more than bragging rights and glorified freighters
T2 Seige & Triage modules were a huge nerf, for instance.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
310
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Posted - 2015.03.01 10:50:04 -
[139] - Quote
Holysmokes some of the stuff in this thread is funny.
Cloaked Links, 6000DPS assigned fighter damage etc... (as pointed out if your a TL;DR person, links don't work cloaked, and you can only assign a max of 5 fighters ).
There are clearly some people that believe the only way they die is when the others had a "unfair" advantage.
This is Eve. It is your job to be on the other side of unfair.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jori McKie
TURN LEFT
The Camel Empire
216
|
Posted - 2015.03.01 12:24:22 -
[140] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Holysmokes some of the stuff in this thread is funny.
Cloaked Links, 6000DPS assigned fighter damage etc... (as pointed out if your a TL;DR person, links don't work cloaked, and you can only assign a max of 5 fighters ).
There are clearly some people that believe the only way they die is when the others had a "unfair" advantage.
This is Eve. It is your job to be on the other side of unfair.
Ahhm, before you start sperging, you should check your facts ;)
How many times i have to post this?
http://gorsking.blogspot.de/2015/02/****-skynet.html
Read it carefully.
Quote:http://puu.sh/g4gH2/b9e630ead6.png
As you can see all the fighters do the same dps per 5 drones. Whats different is the volley, speed, tracking and damage profile. Tracking is what really stands out here. These fighters will track frigs easily and will easily remove entire fleets especially if your assigning ship has some webs and painters. Another thing that's really overpowered with these is the speed. This is not even the maximum speed these are able to reach. By changing the drone nav comps you can get Einherjis to almost hit 7k m/s. It's worth noting that the dps and volley number is per ship you assign to. A single carrier can provide fighters to 3 players increasing the dps on Einherjis to 3334 with a 20k volley for example.
^^ this 1xCarrier, 3.3k DPS with 20k volley from 15 Fighters delegated to 3xships
Quote:Now lets touch a subject I haven't talked about yet. Supercarriers assigning drones. These massive ships have a insane price tag with them but they have ewar immunity allowing them to easily mwd into a pos shield if you are sitting on the edge of it. Supercarriers have another type of fighter called Fighter Bomber. These are different from fighters in that they shoot missiles that use the missile damage formula instead of the damage formula. While Fighter bombers benefit from drone damage modules like any other drone. They get nothing from Omni directionals and this means that they will never be as great as normal fighters for killing smaller stuff. Fortunately for us supers can use Fighters as well and they can pack way more of them and they get a nice 100% bonus to damage. 15 super Templars will be able to dish out 6668 dps with 40k volleys for example and that's using t2 drone damage amps.
^^ this 1xSuper, 6.6k DPS with 40k volley from 15 Fighters delegated to 3xships
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Steppa Musana
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2015.03.01 17:41:33 -
[141] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:Holysmokes some of the stuff in this thread is funny.
Cloaked Links, 6000DPS assigned fighter damage etc... (as pointed out if your a TL;DR person, links don't work cloaked, and you can only assign a max of 5 fighters ).
There are clearly some people that believe the only way they die is when the others had a "unfair" advantage.
This is Eve. It is your job to be on the other side of unfair.
Yeah they are using capital ship weapons, on subcaps, without putting the capital ships at risk. Id say thats unfair. The subcap ships are all balanced against one another and you throw that all away allowing these kinds of drones to be fielded like that. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
10002
|
Posted - 2015.03.01 17:53:35 -
[142] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:Delt0r Garsk wrote:Holysmokes some of the stuff in this thread is funny.
Cloaked Links, 6000DPS assigned fighter damage etc... (as pointed out if your a TL;DR person, links don't work cloaked, and you can only assign a max of 5 fighters ).
There are clearly some people that believe the only way they die is when the others had a "unfair" advantage.
This is Eve. It is your job to be on the other side of unfair. Yeah they are using capital ship weapons, on subcaps, without putting the capital ships at risk. Id say thats unfair. The subcap ships are all balanced against one another and you throw that all away allowing these kinds of drones to be fielded like that.
And again that wasn't in the least bit a problem when those "capital ship weapons" couldn't hit anything sub-capital sized. The problem wasn't fighter delegation it IS CCP's phoebe fighter changes. Rather than getting rid of cool and unique features, CCP should attack the actual problem, which was their own poor thinking prior to the Phoebe patch when it comes to fighters.
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Hicksimus
Xion Limited
Resonance.
543
|
Posted - 2015.03.01 19:06:36 -
[143] - Quote
I'll gladly put my Archon at risk but with hotdrop mechanics being what they are we seem to have gone from near 0 risk to maximum risk and I'd really rather have a middle ground. Not that I have any alts subbed to assign to at this point because CCP has returned to lazy mode and my interest in the game is near 0.
Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you?
Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
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mannyman
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 21:58:23 -
[144] - Quote
Potamus Jenkins wrote:
are people really denying the fact that people are sitting in the supers poking out of of the pos shield, forgoing tank instead of full wrack of drone mods?
So the problem is more that the mid/low slot modules are still IN EFFECT when fighters are off-grid of the super/carrier ! |
Davir Sometaww
Snuff Box
Snuffed Out
27
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 22:05:15 -
[145] - Quote
Hell; removing is a stupid idea. Its a unique form of gameplay and you can make it more risk adverse. Removing it will be a bad idea because A:
-Less carriers will get killed because nobody will undock them.
-No more large turd carriers killed. The last one that was skynetting? Risk adverse my ass. After some planning - got DD'd.
Easy fix:
Can't assign fighters while near a pos shields at 5km ((Carrier is too far to safely get inside and leaves it vulnerable to hotdropping)).
Done and done. Thank you I just fixed eve.
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Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2015.03.04 02:31:51 -
[146] - Quote
Oh man. Just resubbed after a 2 years break to just find out about these coming changes which I wouldn't support in any ways... Not only the fighters, but also the t3 ships as a whole plus bonus points for nerfing the tengu -once againGäó-.
What a massive letdown to find out the mindset regarding balance hasn't evolved a crap over the years. Instead of exploring the depths of asymmetrical balance, just keep it on par with ****** medieval fantasy mmorpgs. Homogenize the **** out of everything. Yet devs have the courage to come up with t3 destroyers and bring them onto live server in their current state.
I leave disappointed. |
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