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Sticky:[Scylla] Medium Railguns

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Specia1 K State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2015.03.02 14:43:50 - [91] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Before damage mods a thorax with 5 250mm railguns, navy antimatter, and level 5 skills will deal 300 DPS currently. After this nerf it will do about 277 DPS, it is not that big of a nerd and comically enough still has almost as much DPS as 425mm railguns. large rails have underwhelming dps.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 150	Posted - 2015.03.02 22:07:32 - [92] - Quote This is also a nerf to Galente Cruisers, will the hybrid bonused ships get a compensation? Also I agree, 150 dual rails are not too strong to deserve a nerf. CCP, you go the lazy way. I'm my own NPC alt.
Zekora Rally Negative Density 10	Posted - 2015.03.03 10:21:20 - [93] - Quote Rail proteus is far worse than a rail tengu. You ain't seen nothing.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1613	Posted - 2015.03.03 18:54:59 - [94] - Quote Sinigr Shadowsong wrote: CCP Rise wrote: As announced last night on the o7 show, we have a list of high-impact balance changes planned for Scylla. One of those changes is a reduction in rate of fire for all medium railguns by 7.5% for all types. Did you mean increase in rate of fire? Because lower RoF value goes more DPS you apply. "Attack speed" goes the other way, but there is no such term in EVE. Rate of fire is the amount of shots you take in a certain amount of time. The fact that EVE display it the other way around (how much time per shots) does not change the actual meaning of the words. Weapon rate of fire for example are ususally rated in shots/minutes. Lowering the rate of fires gives less shots per minutes.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 586	Posted - 2015.03.03 19:07:20 - [95] - Quote Specia1 K wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Before damage mods a thorax with 5 250mm railguns, navy antimatter, and level 5 skills will deal 300 DPS currently. After this nerf it will do about 277 DPS, it is not that big of a nerd and comically enough still has almost as much DPS as 425mm railguns. large rails have underwhelming dps. At least I'm no longer the only one, who thinks this. signature
Odethia Rondass 1	Posted - 2015.03.03 19:16:01 - [96] - Quote Though Railguns are obviously extremely good on some ships, I don't think the Eagle need a nerf. It's definitely not overpowered even with it's broken guns.
Spugg Galdon Aliastra Gallente Federation 622	Posted - 2015.03.04 13:41:43 - [97] - Quote how is this 7.5% reduction in RoF (or increase in duration) calculated? The math I'm doing is coming out at a rough 8-9% reduction in dps
Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 270	Posted - 2015.03.04 14:29:07 - [98] - Quote And after a full 5 pages and at least 5 days since the OP commented, NO COMMENTS FROM CSM 9 One of those changes is a reduction in rate of fire for all medium railguns by 7.5% for all types, I trust you did the math CCP, but keep an eye on it if it needed only to be 5% after the Tech 3 cruiser nerf The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans. http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg GÇÖChilde Roland to the Dark Tower came.GÇÖ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY3oMRLfArU
Davir Sometaww Snuff Box Snuffed Out 36	Posted - 2015.03.05 02:13:58 - [99] - Quote While we are at it; Can we actually make heavy missiles NOT suck anymore?
Iyacia Cyric'ai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 125	Posted - 2015.03.05 03:55:10 - [100] - Quote Umm... let's calm it down a bit shall we? How about we start with a -5% reduction in ROF and see where things end up?

Vincintius Agrippa The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology 77	Posted - 2015.03.05 09:35:07 - [101] - Quote Did I miss something? Last time I checked rails had **** tracking and mediocre damage. I've never seen rails on anything other than tracking bonused hulls like the thorax. Occasionally a moa fleet, but rarely. `Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!`
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 816	Posted - 2015.03.05 09:49:15 - [102] - Quote Vincintius Agrippa wrote: Did I miss something? Last time I checked rails had **** tracking and mediocre damage. I've never seen rails on anything other than tracking bonused hulls like the thorax. Occasionally a moa fleet, but rarely. Was that in 2008?
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1998	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:39:48 - [103] - Quote Vincintius Agrippa wrote: Did I miss something? Last time I checked rails had **** tracking and mediocre damage. I've never seen rails on anything other than tracking bonused hulls like the thorax. Occasionally a moa fleet, but rarely. They have WAAAAY more trackign than arties. A bit less than beams. They have WAY MORE damage then both of them. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1998	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:41:09 - [104] - Quote Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: I have to agree on two points raised: - the nerf seems a bit excessive, with the more frequent update scheme smaller steps would make more sense. - your most compelling argument is the proliferation of railguns in doctrines. There are two main factors contributing to that, hull power and weapon system power. You're adressing both parameters at the same time, which is scientifically unsound. It would make more sense to follow up on the defensive subsystem change with a period of observation and then follow up with a railgun change - if it is still necessary. Again the more frequent update scheme would easily allow such a strategy. The problem are NOT the hull. If you put medium rails on a STABBER, it still does more damage than an ARTI STABBER. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Specia1 K State War Academy Caldari State 18	Posted - 2015.03.05 14:51:43 - [105] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: I have to agree on two points raised: - the nerf seems a bit excessive, with the more frequent update scheme smaller steps would make more sense. - your most compelling argument is the proliferation of railguns in doctrines. There are two main factors contributing to that, hull power and weapon system power. You're adressing both parameters at the same time, which is scientifically unsound. It would make more sense to follow up on the defensive subsystem change with a period of observation and then follow up with a railgun change - if it is still necessary. Again the more frequent update scheme would easily allow such a strategy. The problem are NOT the hull. If you put medium rails on a STABBER, it still does more damage than an ARTI STABBER. But same Stabber with Beams does about the same damage. Slightly less range, but slightly better tracking.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1998	Posted - 2015.03.05 15:04:09 - [106] - Quote Specia1 K wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: I have to agree on two points raised: - the nerf seems a bit excessive, with the more frequent update scheme smaller steps would make more sense. - your most compelling argument is the proliferation of railguns in doctrines. There are two main factors contributing to that, hull power and weapon system power. You're adressing both parameters at the same time, which is scientifically unsound. It would make more sense to follow up on the defensive subsystem change with a period of observation and then follow up with a railgun change - if it is still necessary. Again the more frequent update scheme would easily allow such a strategy. The problem are NOT the hull. If you put medium rails on a STABBER, it still does more damage than an ARTI STABBER. But same Stabber with Beams does about the same damage. Slightly less range, but slightly better tracking. With WAY higher fittings are more cap usage. At the end rails do not have any serious disadvantage "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Erihn Sabrovich Bionesis Technologies 0	Posted - 2015.03.06 19:10:47 - [107] - Quote 1) If the goal is to nerf a particular ship/gun combination, I think that it'd be better to nerf the ship than the gun. It'd avoid to touch the balance for all other ships. 2) as pointed before, the possible overpower of the railgun does not apply on the same way to all Medium rails... a similar nerf on all med-rails seem a little odd. 3) What about the other parameters ? PG, CPU, Cap ? Comparing Rails to Arty don't take in account the difference in Cap usage. Cap is the ability to sustain AB, MWD, Reps, Shields, ... and, for rails and laser, the ability to fire. Tracking difference must also be taken in account... Aswell the delay between firing and hitting. 4) Maybe the problem is in having Caldari using railguns (instead of missiles), ... Using a kind of weapon not related to the ship should have some penality... 5) Rails are the only weapon that can't switch damage type... You only have thermal/kinetics... what magnitude can you give to that drawback ? You can't compare raw damages of lasers or arty which can switch damage type to raw damages of Rails. 6) CCP is targetting mostly a few number of ships... and nerf both the ships and one kind of weapon... I think that a more sensible behaviour is to do only one change at the time. This would allow to get a better view at the effects of the changes.
Nalha Saldana Shattered Void Test Alliance Please Ignore 882	Posted - 2015.03.06 20:28:26 - [108] - Quote These changes might be good to fix the extreme use of this weapon system but the problem isnt the weapon system! The ships that are popular for these are the Moa, Eagle and mostly the Tengu. What is the actual problem then? A typical fleet Moa fit has 58k (!) EHP, thats more than a Maller with 1600mm plate and nothing but tank in the low slots. The Eagle has 114K EHP, thats more than many battleship fits! Combined with a small sig radius these just dont die. And the Tengu? Yea i think you can guess... Please don't nerf the Gallente rail ships! They are underpowered enough as is.
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 270	Posted - 2015.03.07 10:24:08 - [109] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: With WAY higher fittings are more cap usage. At the end rails do not have any serious disadvantage The disadvantage of rails is that they do kin/therm damage, which is a massive disadvantage. This nerf is completely stupid. Medium rails are only really used on ships with double range bonuses in order to outrange sentry drones. If you're planning to engage at under 130k, you should be in Ishtars as they completely dominate all other ships inside that range. All this nerf does is make the only real Ishtar counter have to blob even harder to break through reps. You're already shooting right into the T2 resists and doing next to no damage, now it's even worse.
Nina Lowel Ministry of War Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2015.03.08 05:40:10 - [110] - Quote It's not rails that need a nerf, it's blasters need a buff, and it's only 3 ships that are too good with rails...hence no other doctrines that fit rails. I mean, I wish CCP would actually use their brains. If you want to know what's OP, look at the most heavily used doctrines in null, I can tell you it's not rail demios or proteus, it's freaking tengu! I've given up on CCP's ability to recognize problem areas and how to fix them.

Arinola Pendoler The Imperterrits 0	Posted - 2015.03.08 09:32:58 - [111] - Quote It's pretty frustrating for a new player (late 2014) to be afected by a nerf, on a -+10? years old game... I just finished "railgun spec" weeks ago; at this moment its my only seriuos lvl 5 skill for PVE. Instead to focus the solution in a weapon, I think, in my opinion, that they should focus in the ships that are overpowered and are mentioned in the article. Ships that I dont use... I use 250 medium for PVE to get some little ISK. Railguns use thermal and kinetic always, thats big a disavantage, between little others. Just an opinion of a frustrated new player ;)
Ben Ishikela 21	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:47:12 - [112] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: (...)strong pressure to field rail platforms: Moas, Tengus, Vultures, Proteii, Eagle, etc. (...) but railguns are simply the simplest angle of attack for us 1st simple =/= best. Status: .Rails are a good average. they have no big issue with falloff, tracking, damagetypeselection. that makes them versatile and good to begin with for new players. Compared to other turrets. .they are heavily used in fleetdoctrines and solo/small gang not so much, right? .many new players have indeed trained Rails. Goal: .lets keep their strength = simplicity .make them a good base for lower skillpoints and skills. .make other turrets a specialty by them dealing more damage in comparison for skilled pilots. .create incentive for Starters to move on to other specialized WeaponPlatforms, once they have enough practise. Change: .make it faster to train for rails .let them scale with skillpoints and pilotskill slower than other turrets. ..less damage bonus per skill level compared to other weapons ..tengu/vult/eagle gets less bonus to damage/etc per skill level, but higher base ..better tracking and even lesser falloff to punch it more into its new role ..?increase damage per skill on others? ..crazy: make every T3 able to use Rails effective. .advertise them as good starter Issues: atm i cant think of any. help me! No more nerfing of percieved Overpowered Content! It makes a game boring after too many iterations. Instead add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to fight the current Meta.
Suitonia Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep 465	Posted - 2015.03.09 14:29:05 - [113] - Quote afkalt wrote: Vincintius Agrippa wrote: Did I miss something? Last time I checked rails had **** tracking and mediocre damage. I've never seen rails on anything other than tracking bonused hulls like the thorax. Occasionally a moa fleet, but rarely. Was that in 2008? Blammo Contributer to Eve is Easy: https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Ben Ishikela 24	Posted - 2015.03.16 00:53:42 - [114] - Quote If you reduce the damage output of dual150 too, could there be a way to decrease their signature to get them up to speed? I remember being a noob and putting dual150 on my thorax to hit frigates better, but then realising they have more sig then single 150 small guns. Or please rename them, because its one step less too learn and is no meaningful choice. Hint: there is also the rapid light missile launcher that is a good medium weapon against frigs. give us a proper turret that can do this! Add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to fight the current Meta!
Rek Seven The Scope Gallente Federation 1968	Posted - 2015.03.18 10:47:35 - [115] - Quote So basically, if they ship doesn't have a bonus to the weapon, don't use it... That will do wonders for fitting options. +1
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 2024	Posted - 2015.03.18 14:30:01 - [116] - Quote Erihn Sabrovich wrote: 5) Rails are the only weapon that can't switch damage type... You only have thermal/kinetics... what magnitude can you give to that drawback ? You can't compare raw damages of lasers or arty which can switch damage type to raw damages of Rails. WHAT? ever heard of Pulses, Beams and blasters? "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 2024	Posted - 2015.03.18 14:32:59 - [117] - Quote Ben Ishikela wrote: CCP Rise wrote: (...)strong pressure to field rail platforms: Moas, Tengus, Vultures, Proteii, Eagle, etc. (...) but railguns are simply the simplest angle of attack for us 1st simple =/= best. Status: .Rails are a good average. they have no big issue with falloff, tracking, damagetypeselection. that makes them versatile and good to begin with for new players. Compared to other turrets. .they are heavily used in fleetdoctrines and solo/small gang not so much, right? .many new players have indeed trained Rails. Goal: .lets keep their strength = simplicity .make them a good base for lower skillpoints and skills. .make other turrets a specialty by them dealing more damage in comparison for skilled pilots. .create incentive for Starters to move on to other specialized WeaponPlatforms, once they have enough practise. Change: .make it faster to train for rails .let them scale with skillpoints and pilotskill slower than other turrets. ..less damage bonus per skill level compared to other weapons ..tengu/vult/eagle gets less bonus to damage/etc per skill level, but higher base ..better tracking and even lesser falloff to punch it more into its new role ..?increase damage per skill on others? ..crazy: make every T3 able to use Rails effective. .advertise them as good starter Issues: atm i cant think of any. help me! RAIls are overpowerred not the hulls If you deconsider all ship bonuses rails are already more powerful than other weapon systems. They do way more damage with way better tracking and WAY lower fittings than arties. Do a close to same damage damage with a bit less tracking.. with MASSIVELY easier fittings than beams. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Arsine Mayhem Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 385	Posted - 2015.03.19 17:16:04 - [118] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: The problem are NOT the hull. If you put medium rails on a STABBER, it still does more damage than an ARTI STABBER. Are there still minmatar ships in this game? And for the rails vs artys, this is only for medium.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 2025	Posted - 2015.03.20 14:21:47 - [119] - Quote Arsine Mayhem wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: The problem are NOT the hull. If you put medium rails on a STABBER, it still does more damage than an ARTI STABBER. Are there still minmatar ships in this game? And for the rails vs artys, this is only for medium. Yes, only mediums have a HUGE unbalance. The large ones have a smaller unbalance, still present, but bearable because alpha is way more important on the large gun scale. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
Tyranis Marcus Bloody Heathens 1412	Posted - 2015.03.21 01:39:04 - [120] - Quote It's not going to nerf ships that don't need a nerfing is it? I'm talking about medium railgun platforms that aren't currently too strong? If there are any? Do not run. We are your friends.



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