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Anti Pirate question

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Katrina Coreli Vindication Angels	Posted - 2006.10.13 21:58:00 - [1] Just to clarify the antipirates i am reffering to here are not people who kill pirates who enter their space for security reasons, i am talking about players who attack pirates (Not always beyond -5.0 sec) without warning under the banner of "Anti pirate". To put it simply i am wondering what is the point? I was chatting to one of this breed of anti pirates and he didnt realy seam to have the answers to any of my questions. 1. Is anti piracy not just piracy with a limited scope? It atleast seams to share similar traits, i got a severe finger wagging for attacking players weaker than me but i cant imagine anti pirates engaging with a pirate far stronger than them. 2. Who does it help? Assuming killing a certain pirate is not a revengeful attack then what exactly does killing a pirate achieve, forcing them to give up their lives of crime? Some how i doubt it. Yet again this is very similar to question one in that it seams to me that anti pirates simply want the riches and pvp joy of piracy but dont have the nads to go the whole hog and go pirate. I know there are some serious anti pirates out there, but for the majority of "anti pirates" out there i simply cant see the point at all
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.10.13 22:11:00 - [2] Some antipirates are in it for the roleplay. They like the idea of enforcing the law on the fringes of settled space. Others are just in it for a higher grade of PvP. After all, your average pirate is going to be quite a bit more challenging than your average player. Some are just in it for justification. "I'm not a pirate. I'm a pirate HUNTER. I killed you because you're a pirete. You MUST be a pirate, because I wouldn't have killed you otherwise." In short, there are as many justifications for antipiracy as there are for piracy. The first kind of antipirate helps chase the low-skill (annoyance) pirates out of certain sectors, especially when they settle in an area in force. However, most skilled pirates are pretty good at picking off lost lambs before help arrives. In many cases, the presence of "protection" encourages more carebears to show up and mine like they have nothing to worry about. This, in turn, attracts pirates who want to pick off fat grapes who think they're safe. Example: Big Blue (back when it existed). The other kinds of antipirate are just helping themselves, for the most part. _ The Billionaire Buccaneer (Now with 50% more Roleplay!)
Leikeze Mrotserif Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.13 22:18:00 - [3] The point is that its fun for the person doing it? Im a supporter of anti-pirates, as it brings more people into my local for me to kill -------------------------------------
Rumorsky Gallente Panzershrek	Posted - 2006.10.13 23:59:00 - [4] It's all the same really, but with anti pirate, there is that Roleplay side you can get from it, And It's alot of fun, When you do find Anti Pirate Roleplyer, at less thats what i think. Then you got your 'Anti pirate' some of them hold up to it, Some dont, Pirate are kill like, Kill what ever i see. And Anti pirate are like, Kill what ever pirate i see. Then you got the people who just Wear the anti tag, Just to gank anyone, Then pull the Sheep wool back on and claim inocennts.
Sapha Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 01:42:00 - [5] Anti-pies only attack those who pray on others. Pirates...well they attack other players. Basically the same thing but the anti's dont eat DOG P00PY muwhahahaha...what the hell was I doing? Ohh yeah, ummm pirates are bad and killing is bad...ohhh mining is good VELDS 4TW! /me walks away confused and wet Oh God it burns!
Qel Hoth Kensei Mercenaries	Posted - 2006.10.14 02:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Qel Hoth on 14/10/2006 02:21:10 Edited by: Qel Hoth on 14/10/2006 02:20:20 To answer the origional questions, yes anti-piracy is piracy with a far smaller target base, and it does not deter most pirates from their life of crime; however, if you manage to pod them, they may not return to your system, depending on how far away the clone is. Many of the "Anti-Pie" you find are corps, alliances, or just groups of locals who like to mine, rat, and/or mission, come out to blob pirates when they show up. This type of AP you find is not generally a threat unless they are in groups, but watch out. Make your kills fast, unless they are alone in local, expect company as soon as you engage them. The second type of anti-pirate you find is far more dangerous; they are people who intend to fight, and are generally ex-pirates or mercenaries with good PVP skills and experiance. @rum: I don't mean to offend you, but please learn to use punctuation and capitalization correctly as it would make understanding your posts far easier. EDIT spelling
Michayel Lyon Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.10.14 05:41:00 - [7] What I don't get is pirates complaining about anti-pirates... You want to hurt other players, but whine when other players try to hurt you? Oh, the best whine must have been this pirate that complained about us anti-pirates being selective in our anti-piracy, because we didn't attack the members of a local PvP corp that sometimes went into negative sec status... But hey, they wanted to run missions and they didn't bother us. And being anti-pirate helped me, because a) it felt good killing the same kind of people that killed me when I just tried to haul stuff through low-sec, and b) PvPing is fun, especielly when it's against people that actually have a clue and are fitted to fight (as opposed to killing defenseless miners and industrials). Although, I must say I'm not very anti-pirate anymore. It's too easy to avoid fights in this game, if you don't want to fight. At least if you know what you're doing, which most PvPers do. So these days, I am much less restrictive when it comes to chosing my targets. I guess some people may even call me a pirate. Yarr.
Mathias Orsen Gold-dust	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:24:00 - [8] The Pirate himself is the number one anti-pirate. Pirate "A" enters system "Z". Pirate "B" does what has to be done to be sure that system and the targets in it remain his. Pirate "B" now considers Pirate "A" to be the priority target in the system. Most people with the "anti-pirate" tag are actually nothing more than people that don't like pirates killing them while they mine. There have been times where i have gone into the anti-pirate role.. Reason was for better kills. Better to kill a nice HAC or BS with good mods for pvp than it is to kill a noob with all plain t1 gear. Also offers a nice challenge. For instance, a system is controled by a small pirate corp. Moving into this system to pop them off all by my lonesome makes for a good time, good challenge, and just more fun that killing a ferox with a mining setup. PVP in low sec for smaller sec hits is a bonus to look for too.. If my sec status is getting low and i don't want to loose any more, I'll go after pirates with -5 sec status. I think that is the main objective to alot of real anti-pirates. Still have to pop of some of the pirates in the area that are not outlaws to lower the threat level. If you find 3x BS all in the same pirate corp and only one is an outlaw then it is wise to pop the non outlaws off if you happen to get them alone. Otherwise you could be engaging the outlaw and his two friends come to help. Another HUGE thing about many Anti-pirates. They are just simply looking for things to kill while under a good flag... sorta speak. Much how Rome Send Crusades, Inquisitors killed people by the thousands, and the Knights Templar were executed all under the name of god. Under the name of "anti-pirate" they may pirate as they feel without people looking down upon them for it. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
LadyShu Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:48:00 - [9] ah come on.. most pirates arent better. In fact there are only a few roleplayers on both sides i think. There are guys out hanging in 0.4 all the time when they play just to kill and gank easy targets. So wheres the point hum? ------------------------------- certified ferox crashtest pilot
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:19:00 - [10] I kill people who come into or around the system where I run missions. It helps anyone that wants to run missions in peace. I enjoy missions but I enjoy the hunt more. I've killed a LOT of pirates and I die too. But they've learnt that they won't get easy ganks or stupid targets round "my" neck of the woods.

Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:55:00 - [11] Anti-pirates are in it for the fun ;) ----------------------------------------------
Tone'Def	Posted - 2006.10.14 14:57:00 - [12] Edited by: Tone''Def on 14/10/2006 15:00:45 I'm in the same boat as the above poster (no pun intended). As part of a group of mission runners in a low-sec system, I work with my teammates to keep the place cleaned up whenever possible. The pirate population has dropped dramatically, and we also have immense fun. We only engage against those with security levels at -5 or below, or against known pirates or someone who has shot up another pilot in system. I encourage more mission runners and miners to do the same. You'll be surprised at the results you can get with groups as small as three or four pilots. Use expendible ships (four frigates or cruisers fitted in roles to take down the opponent's offensive edge are devastating). Learn how to use the scanner and scan probes. Set up a bait ship. Pop a prototype cloaker on a ship and use it as a warp-in point. Get on TS or Vent for effective comms. Amongst the ships taken down last night was an assault ship we figure was worth more than 100mil with all of its tech II and faction gear. Funny thing is, he attacked one of us, who was loaded up with leftover junk gear on a 3 mil cruiser. High risk vs. no reward has become our motto in system. Cheers, TD
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:49:00 - [13] People who attack Mining Bardges for the strip miners or blow up industrials for the loot are pirates. People who kill that aformentioned person is an Anti-Pirate. Thats how I see it anyways. ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
Zoxia Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:25:00 - [14] hmmm
Leuko Uratne Vindication Angels	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:36:00 - [15] This is based on my experiences in a former corporation: We mostly went out doing anti-piracy to have some PvP fun. We only attacked players with -5.0 or below standing, or players on the list of local pirates. In the end we didn't achieve much apart from having fun, not many pirates moved on to other areas due to being on our KOS-list.
Lanfear's Bane Daughters of the Night	Posted - 2006.10.15 11:30:00 - [16] Creepy creppy roleplayers and people who want CONCORD as their corp. Basically the eccentrics of EVE, the sort of person than lives near your nan, has newspaper stuck to the windows, never mows the lawn and stores all their urine in jars. Lanfear's Bane. _ _ _
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.15 12:33:00 - [17] Anti-piracy died when the old pirate corps died. m0o, jokers, space invaders etc. They used to camp a system for days at a time killing absolutely everything that tried to pass through (including concord :P). Activites like this led to the birth of our corp and 'anti-piracy'. Our members would actively look for these gatecamps and attempt to take them down. It worked well because the old pirates actually wanted to fight, even outnumbered. These days the mechanics are different and pirates don't just want to fight for the sake of fighting, its all about getting the isk. If we assemble a fleet with the aim of taking down pirates they don't fight. They're there to make isk not to entertain us. There may be some noteworthy exceptions, Veto. and possibly TDG now they have their mothership and some balls :P. In summary the vast majority of pirates in modern Eve are there to grief and make isk, not to give 'anti-pirates' stand up fights. This leads me onto another problem with 'anti-piracy', it's far too easy for the pirate to get away. The fun:success ratio for modern 'anti-piracy' just isn't good enough to warrant long-term interest. Nerf stabs and maybe things will change. You can't win against most pirates, if you bring too few they warp off cackling calling you a noob because you couldn't kill them. If you bring enough ships to actually hold them down then you're instantly branded blobbers. Eve's current pirates aren't warriors in the same way the old ones were. That's my biased view anyway. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
happymappy Amarr Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.10.15 15:34:00 - [18] I would say anti-pirates are just people looking for a good fight being a pirate myself i have become oh so very bored with ganking newbs, so bored infact that im thinking of going anti-pie myself just beacause they offer a challenge
Ange1 Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:04:00 - [19] Originally by: welsh wizard They're there to make isk not to entertain us. There may be some noteworthy exceptions, Veto. and possibly TDG now they have their mothership and some balls :P. Don't forget our Mothership. Cause's havoc in her own right you know The Establishment is at your service...
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Ange1 Originally by: welsh wizard They're there to make isk not to entertain us. There may be some noteworthy exceptions, Veto. and possibly TDG now they have their mothership and some balls :P. Don't forget our Mothership. Cause's havoc in her own right you know :P What I'm trying to say is that anti-pirates don't really exist in any organised capacity any more. Theres nothing to keep anyone doing it on a regular basis. The game needs to cater more for both the pirate and the pirate hunter, just more so for the latter. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

Friedrick Psitalon The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 16/10/2006 02:42:57 Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 16/10/2006 02:42:38 Most assuredly, anti-pirate organizations still exist. They're usually smart enough not to wear the name on their collars (because that has a funny way of attracting more pirates at once than you can deal with), but they're around. We're one such group, and it's pretty well-known in our chunk of space, so I don't mind discussing it. Why are we anti-pirate? 1- Simple revenge. We know these folks enjoy ruining other people's time, and most of us when we were new got the same treatment. We like giving it back. 2- Inconvenience factor. We know full well we'll never make them stop, but pirates don't enjoy having to hunt up new gear for their ships any more than anyone else. Given two equal systems, but one where ten or eleven people come piling in and blow you apart before you get any of them, and one where you have no organized anti-pirates... most go to the other place. (The rest are slower learners.) 3- Improving our own PvP skills. I actually have found your average pirate IS a bit smarter than your average player. At the very least, they don't seem to freeze up, and they're smarter about hit-and-run. If we want to get better at defending what we value, anti-piracy is a way to do it. 4- Who does it help? Depends who you ask. I'd say it helps the mission runners in our system that aren't scan-probed regularly, unlike other systems. Might help the occasional lucky miner who isn't jumped, because the pirate wonders if it's another "bait" operation we're running, because it just seems too easy. Might help the newbie who's just trying to complete the courier mission in scary space, and might actually COME BACK to low-sec because they didn't die to an instant gate-camp. 5- Do I have the "nads" to go pirate? Surely. What I don't have is the abscence of morals. I seek out people who actively enjoy hunting down others, and I bring their own medicine back home. I do it unfairly, in large numbers, without warning, and with cheesy tactics. When pirates do that and people complain, they usually laugh, scoff, and call them ignorant noobs. When I do it to them, apparently I'm still the ignorant noob because I think they should have a taste of their own medicine. When I see someone whose sec rating is positive, who's still in a newbie corp or small corp, and clearly has no idea what they're doing, I don't shoot at them. I warn them about the territory they're in, and suggest tips to get out alive. That has nothing to do with nads; I CAN kill that guy, and since I live in low-sec, the sec hit wouldn't ruin my day. It has everything to do with understanding that killing every single person you meet means you'll start meeting less, and in turn having less fun. Maybe that's why so many pirates are complaining over in the General forum about no one going into low-sec anymore. Do two wrongs make a right? Absolutely not. Is being a vigilante in a lawless place okay? Tough call to make. As for myself, I know that my corporation and my alliance are growing rapidly because of these decisions, and because of our possibly naive determination to drive pirates from our space. We welcome those who don't shoot first and ask questions later, and drive out the ones who do. Ironically, the pirates and I agree on one thing: We're both very sure we're doing what we want to be doing, and for the right reasons. That's what really matters, and THAT is the real point. ;) The Dead Parrot Shoppe: always hiring the intelligent/mature, ubernoob or vet. Experience we can give you; brains, we can't.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon ......Most assuredly, anti-pirate organizations still exist. They're usually smart enough not to wear the name on their collars (because that has a funny way of attracting more pirates at once than you can deal with), but they're around.... LOL! Our corp has always had the opposite affect, I envy you. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:27:00 - [23] to put it in historical context anti-pirate would be like english privateers such as francis drake. he raided looted and plundered. but because england said it was okay he didnt get treated like a pirate. Are they in it for themselves ?? YES! but so is everyone in eve from the miner to the agent runner.
Gardarsdottir Caldari Freeland's Corporation Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2006.10.16 08:31:00 - [24] Probably just think like pirates. you start firing at weaker players anti pirates hate you for that and want you dead ^^ My char is the prettiest in the whole wide world, and I love her so much.
Silane Daktor Soar Angelic Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Creepy creppy roleplayers and people who want CONCORD as their corp. Basically the eccentrics of EVE, the sort of person than lives near your nan, has newspaper stuck to the windows, never mows the lawn and stores all their urine in jars. Now THAT is funny!
Silane Daktor Soar Angelic Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Most assuredly, anti-pirate organizations still exist. They're usually smart enough not to wear the name on their collars (because that has a funny way of attracting more pirates at once than you can deal with), but they're around. We're one such group, and it's pretty well-known in our chunk of space, so I don't mind discussing it. Why are we anti-pirate? I like anti-pirates, indeed respect them. Nice to have piracy balanced out IMHO I am curious though- how do you pick your targets? If a mark is, say, -3.0 sec status, doesn't have anything piratey in his bio and isn't in a known pirate corp or alliance... then would you attack him? I assume you take sec hits in your line of work, or do you only attack blinky reds? If the former, what shows ppl that you aren't a pirate yourself with neg sec status? As I say, just curious really, seems like a tough gig.
Masu'di Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:20:00 - [27] Originally by: welsh wizard What I'm trying to say is that anti-pirates don't really exist in any organised capacity any more. I think the anti-pirates that are about now, choose to keep a much lower profile. The main problem that happened for celestial apocalpyse's anti-pirate work, with no disrespect, is that they became too well known.
Friedrick Psitalon The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.10.16 11:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Silane Daktor Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon Most assuredly, anti-pirate organizations still exist. They're usually smart enough not to wear the name on their collars (because that has a funny way of attracting more pirates at once than you can deal with), but they're around. We're one such group, and it's pretty well-known in our chunk of space, so I don't mind discussing it. Why are we anti-pirate? I like anti-pirates, indeed respect them. Nice to have piracy balanced out IMHO I am curious though- how do you pick your targets? If a mark is, say, -3.0 sec status, doesn't have anything piratey in his bio and isn't in a known pirate corp or alliance... then would you attack him? I assume you take sec hits in your line of work, or do you only attack blinky reds? If the former, what shows ppl that you aren't a pirate yourself with neg sec status? As I say, just curious really, seems like a tough gig. We have a specific threshold for our RoE, above which status we won't engage without grossly obvious pirate markings (Bio, corp description including words like "pirate" or "your mom") and it does sometimes draw sec hits. We also do a fair amount of ratting, missioning, etc, though, and pirate activity in the area is noticeably down since we really starting cranking things up. My sec rating used to be above 3, and now it hovers in the 1.8 range, as I mission a decent amount too. (+5 implants, unlike their lower peers, still sell pretty well, heh.) We've actually seen the occasional Soar Angelic, too. ;) The Dead Parrot Shoppe: always hiring the intelligent/mature, ubernoob or vet. Experience we can give you; brains, we can't.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.16 12:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Masu'di Originally by: welsh wizard What I'm trying to say is that anti-pirates don't really exist in any organised capacity any more. I think the anti-pirates that are about now, choose to keep a much lower profile. The main problem that happened for celestial apocalpyse's anti-pirate work, with no disrespect, is that they became too well known. You're quite right. :( Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Queen Hades	Posted - 2006.10.16 12:21:00 - [30] NBSI is the only thing that stands between a nice, peaceful low sec system and "Egghelende reloaded".



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