So I have gang of 20 ceptors, fit for extreme speed (20km/s for example and 150km locking range) and t2 Entosis Link. Who/What can stop my gang from reinforcing the whole region? The module needs to either disable any prop mods or make the ship stationary like siege does. That will give you the fights you are trying to force.

Also whats up with this prime time? Should we only have USTZ alliance, EUTZ alliance etc in huge blocks focused on very specific 4hour window in time?

Obvious "Prime Time" issue aside, there needs to be more risk involved with Entosis.

I hope the module uses like 5k PG so only BC and above could use it.

My two cents on this. I'd make the entosis link incompatible with afterburners, mjd's and mwd's which would prevent the concept of the trollceptor. And in the event of a tie on the combat for a station or ihub I would automatically make the defenders win to allow a bit of home field advantage.

the only thing that hits an interceptor at 100km+ is praying for a wrecking shot

Even if it's super cap hungry, you will only be going through 1 cycle. So you turn everything off, start up the E-Link, and then go back to burning around.

They have stated that they are looking to have E-Link have low fitting requirements. Most people are assuming it'll be about the same as fitting a turret or a launcher.

There a lot of other issues with the new sov, interceptors are just the most obvious and easily picked at. There is still very little benefit to owning sov. The indecies are still very crude guides (especially the Industry one).

i guess if they are standing still, sure

if you rig for misl distance you are getting about 125km range on a cerb with a flight time of 12s

an interceptor orbiting at 120km covers 48 km in this time

120 + 48 > 125

You have a sniping missile ship that can hit a frigate orbiting 110km away at 4km/s? Post it.

20 (or fewer) Kitsunes.

So thats 2bil in intys countered by 400mil in ewar frigs.

a misl range rigged orthrus only has an engagement envelope of 100km, and that is while further gimping the tank to include the sensor booster needed to lock that far

an interceptor also beats a heated orthrus's speed by a good kilometer a second or so

Slacker, I was already across the finish line....

it doesn't have to beat the orthrus, just not die to it until the artosis link finishes the job

also i do like that you are having to use a 280m ship and 750m of implants to kill a 20m frig with an 80m module

I have no connection to Goons whatsoever. I live in a single constellation that my alliance owns. I'm worried about these interceptors trolling and keeping me from being able to go have real fights by either swatting at them or endlessly counter-camping.

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)

the problem is that the appropriate size to counter interceptor shenanigans increases by ten for every pilot in the opfor

did it occur to you that with our numbers, we can make any defense untenable

Your ability to counter a troll fit with a troll fit of your own, in numbers, is not what is being sought here.. It is content and gameplay...
Time-wasting, while it may float some peoples boats, is not really, I don't believe, something CCP wants, necessarily. By having a minumum ship-size fitting requirement the probability of actually engaging in combat/content increases...
With trollceptors, the concept is NOT to engage in combat but rather in griefing-type activities! You wanting to fit one to your ibis says a lot...
So, hopefully, it is not necessarily "no way.."

But you are, m8.
You're going to have tools come in, system to system and give you a factor times more work fixing it than them causing it...
All these folk saying, I'll just undock my sniper and blat them are b#&lshitters! They'll do that if they've got superiority and eyes everywhere but not if they're logged on in sys alone... Even if they log on alts to scout it before engaging.. the timer has flipped (you have lots of work to do....).. If they undock a combat ship, they have to warp to site (assuming off scan) and then see an uncatchable inty flitting around... They then warp back to get another ship... timer has flipped...
I don't know mate, but all this hot-air bravado does nothing to get to the bottom of things...
The goons are saying they'll do it to show it's a flawed mechanic and even if it that means they're secretly afraid of it being done to them (which is a good reason to condone it), it's still annoying grief-type game play... Stamp it out!

single system is guarded 4/7

+1

The timer should tick back over time at like 50% speed. That way you only need to kill enemy links instead of having to deploy your own. Should allow more freedom in defensive tactics.

Edit: With that approach you could just alpha link ships off the field once they activate, effectively forcing a large portion of enemy ships to fit links.

Except that they did defend their own things. By killing the guy who tried to contest it.

Once the active influence of the attacker is gone, so should the effects be gone.

Regardless of how it happened, someone came and defended the space. It's obviously space which is still defendable, or it wouldn't be defended.

Please tell me why, in any way, the attacker's influence should be permitted to linger after the attacker himself is dead.

That'd be like drones that kept on shooting after the parent ship had been destroyed.

Well, they did, didn't they? They thwarted the reinforcement attempt, and either they someone from their alliance . What's the problem?

I'm guessing what you're going to end up with is instead of "blues", you'll have corps joining an alliance, just like today.

I've no idea what you're trying to get at, since at worst there'll be a specific alliance which all the corps are in, so no matter what you do, you've got "a single alliance".

Alphaing links of the field is an imperfect solution by itself. There will always be more links from both sides. Its still a losing battle to try and defend a timer without the owner present.

You mean like POSes are completely incapable of regenerating their own shield after they've been reinforced?

What im saying is, if you are presented with a batphone defense and no owners there's only so many alpha fleets they can field. Bring links in something that fleet cant hit and all of the sudden they're useless.

Also I proposed an exponential regen with a delay. Say for example they volley off all the links. It could take 5 minutes to even start regen and another 20 for it to be a meaningful amount of regen. All you need to do is barely start one cycle to reset that. Meanwhile that alpha fleet is hanging out in the open waiting for another group to roam on in and kill them.

Its helpful for owners as well. It will allow defenders to pursue an enemy when they leave a structure to go attack another one of the owners structures, which i imagine will not be uncommon. But I will cede that there are much larger issues than this plaguing the sov plans.

The problem is there's going to be a good chunk of low level occupancy systems until the isk starts raining in 0.0 and tbh even after. It should be harder to defend such space but not impossible. Say I own two constellations, there will probably only be a handful of high level occupancy systems with the rest being medium to low. The strategy for my oppenent is just going to be to bounce around my space reinforcing all of my stuff bit by bit. If i drive them off they go to the next system. I then have to follow them leaving marginally degraded timers all around my space.

I'd be satisfied if they only regened if they were above say, 85% and slowly at that.

Umm, itll take more than just data to implement the null income changes. Especially when its needs to be balanced with hisec, and provide meaningful space content. There are a million factors to be considered and it may have to be coupled with an overall industry revamp. It will take time to do it right.

If I am shooting at a pos and I get blapped, if I do not return the pos will regenerate it's own shields over time.

I would expect nothing less from the successor mechanic. Only the timeframe is really changing.

The real way to prevent most of the trolling isn't to make the timer reset but to make the trolling harder to do. The 250km range on the T2 module is absurd. Why didn't they just make the T2 version's range just double from T2 or hell quadruple if you really must? No instead they introduced a module with 10 time the effective range. No wonder people are theorycrafting an epic amount of trolling with SOV when you can do it from the very limit of any targetting systems and also potentially be fitted to the most mobile kind of ships and people wonder why we might end up playing space tag...

Yep I'm aware of how it works currently - I wouldn't be averse to a slow tick down (maybe half or quarter speed) in the defences favour if NO links are left on it (1 link each still results in a pause)

And this is precisely why the whole proposal is incredibly, ridiculously weak when it comes to risk-reward and game balance. Even worse, I'm not seeing an easy to way to make this workable. It would probably take less time to modify the existing mechanics and increase the null-sec life benefits to make this non-sense workable.

I'm betting that the majority of CSM already said no when this was revealed to them.

Sometimes, I feel as if my words are falling short to describe the level of incompetency here. I thought before, when the pre-Phoebe blog hit, that this shortsighted and shallow approach was an issue specifically with Greyscale. However, now I fully realize that it is not something that is isolated to Greyscale.

The issue is, as is obvious, not actually killing them.

It's that, since it only takes two minutes to complete a reinforce (which then forces you into a four hour sitdown on the structure), that you functionally would need to have said Caracal and Maulus sitting 50km off of the structure literally all the time.

Idk about you, but I missed the memo where EVE is supposed to be a job instead of a game.

I don't get any of it.

I didn't say that was my plan. My position is that any distance longer than about 40km is too large.

The most major issue is with the cycle time. Structure grinding set the bar rather too high to take a crack at owning sov. But a 2 minute cycle time and a 100 million isk module is setting the bar entirely too low.

You. Can. Reinforce. The. Structure. At. Any. Time.

As far as I understand, The Module has a 2 minute spool up time after which it starts affecting the timer. So each time you enter the grid you have to spend at least 2 minutes on grid to start affecting the timer. If you leave the grid, the timer stops. If you return, you need to spool up for 2 minutes again.

Now if there are two of you and one leaves, the other one continues to spin the timer, but if you return, activate the module and your buddy leaves immediately, the timer stops until your personal spin up timer passes. So you can't do a rewarp relay race, and each and every person willing to affect the timer HAS to spend at least 2 minutes on grid.

http://www.themittani.com/features/proposed-sov-changes-rise-trollceptor

In reply to the issues raised in this article about interceptors being used to "troll" alliances, the answer is simple.

You add a fitting restriction.

And what that really means is that, during your "prime time" you are automatically on the back foot, and have to babysit each and every structure in your alliance.

You'd be spending your peak hours guarding your sov instead of using it. To me, this seems remarkably hostile to small groups without the necessary numbers to have a presence in numerous timezones. (because large groups have more ability to manipulate their prime time to their advantage)

Its my biggest fear CCP will make the same mistakes again.

Only in the heads of those who don't want to hear about it. How about leaving it to the Devs to decide whether its a problem or not, rather than the rather biased views of posters?

I'm not scared. It's just question of risk/reward. Where on one hand 750 kk for iHub and on the other 20 kk for interceptor.

Yes. My cerberus alt is ready for this.
In fact I'm just worrying that visual effect that shows which ship is applying Entosis Link is hard to notice in swarm of such bastards before it is to late.

So basically your answer to that 100M trollceptor is to bring a 200M+ cerberus ..unless of course, there are a few more names in local, which may or may not be a support fleet waiting for you just to do so, in which case you'll stay docked?

On second thought, make that a support fleet anywhere in range and a single additional pilot in local, to keep the point till his friends arrive.

On the surface that might be true. But the real truth is that that 'younger audience' has the attention span of a brain damaged goldfish where as the types of people who inhabit null now (and who can mentally and emotionally endure the structure grind environment of the current sov system) will be able to deal with situation of the new system in the longer run.

That also illustrates the problem with this sov system, it's Faction warfare 2.0, small gang 'penny packet' gangs and solo hunters will be the order of the day. That's great if you live in low sec and have a 'boxer/gladiator mentality', but sucks if you're a 'soldier' type that actually found fleet warfare interesting (fun is too strong a word).\

Imposing a low sec/FW syle of play on null sec...when actual low sec/FW exists is not the smartest development idea I've ever experienced. If null had to change, making it more like wormhole space would have been more interesting that making it like FW.

While the constellation based capture mechanic might give CCPs servers a break, it's still trading one system that favors massive numbers for another, the winner is going to be the side that can bring a cast of thousands and control multiple grids simultaneously, and/or keep a constant stream of link fitted ships coming, so, the only way for small entities to "win" will be to harass the defenders until they simply get tired of defending and give up. Then your prize for all that effort is becoming the defender yourself.

If you make light fast ships able to run the link, it's going to make escalation to larger ships a lot less likely. If it'll be possible for the link ships to speed-tank a BS-backed by triage fleet, there'll be little motivation to bring such fleets, or the super-cap fleets that would be the counter to them. These fights will come down to grid control by hac-logi style fleets defending the speedy link-runners. Sure, someone could try the "defend it with a Titan" approach as a hail mary if they aren't able to control the grid with sub-caps, inviting a counter-drop, but I think that'll be highly unlikely, given how easy it'll be to flip the system back.

The only real loss with this mechanic will be loss of a pimped I-Hub, but, since they are now decoupled from sov, I'd imagine that the landlords of Eve are already drafting "bring your own i-hub" rental agreements as we speak.

All in all, though, if you view 0.0 as a place to fight, you should be loving this change. If you don't want the PITA of being the sov-holding defender, your ability force fights from those who are without having to bring a super-cap fleet that would get steamrolled just got a big buff. If your reason for taking sov is to invite fights, you likewise just got a buff to your play style.

If your reason for taking sov is to bear it up in the safety of an ocean of blue to be able to afford a war machine to build an even bigger ocean of blue, there's a lot to hate here. Your play style just got hammered.

And the problem with that is that most of it's not worth living in. As in, so bad you might as well be grinding missions in Egglenaert instead.

Instead of being given to the ubiquitous little guy, that sov is going to be used as a DMZ between the areas actually worth having.

If you want to force people to live in their space to defend it, fine.

Just make it worth living in in the first place. Or is that too much to ask?

Yeah, how dare people expect that the most dangerous space in the game would pay off better than L4 missions in highsec.

This is the part where people can tell that you're just here to troll, by the way.




That's not personal level income, by any means.




If you weren't being deliberately dishonest, it would make perfect sense.

What I know is that it exists, not what it's content is.

But please, keep acting like your rumor mongering has any relevance on the thread.



No, that's not the point. You can scream "Grr Moons!" until you pass out, it means nothing. SRP is not individual income. Moons are not individual income.

Individual income should not be worse than highsec.

Period.

The problem here is that you are completely off base. You've convinced yourself that alliance boss types are keeping all the isk and that somehow they are the problem.

They aren't.

Such poverty out there in 0.0. How do you guys survive on your piddly 50m isk/hour direct isk handouts from CONCORD?

I don't disagree with you that Moon Minerals are a benefit (no-one would waste hours of their life on tower shoots/saves if they weren't seeing some of the money in some way), but an issue that has to be considered is that Moon Minerals are not a Sovreignty benefit or income. You don't need to hold a single system of sov to mine moons. For years organisations have held moon outside of their sov, and indeed, quite frequently in other peoples sov. The concern people have is that the additional ball-ache factor in sov just isn't going to be worth it, and large groups might just pick up their sov and sit in NPC nullsec and hold the moons (Despite living in parts of Pure Blind, Fade and Deklein all my null-life, i've never docked in X-70... I get a feeling that might soon change). Anomoly income is shaky at best as well, since the good systems are always dominated by the same dozen people anyway, so the rest of us aren't going to give two ***** about their IHUB being reinforced again.

Never forget Malcanis Law:

"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."

Obviously if these changes go ahead as proposed, it'll be the current powers that will abuse it to hell. You'll see...

playerbuild module in space: "Status Effect module" This module can set to an effect to give positive or negative effects for fleets entering your sov, this forces enemy to fight your style and your doctrines with buffs, failure to fight in the ships the sov holder enforces gives your fleet a great disadvantage as in wormholes.

Smaller entitys can now force attackers to weird ship doctrines were the defender has trained for and are far more expirienced in then the attackers.

30M ticks pretaxes on a Kronos/Vindicator, aka 76,5M/h post taxes. Shut up john snow.

People like you deserve answers that drive directly to a forum ban :)
Dear CCP, even with a perfect character and flying a shiny ship a nullsec pilot make the same money than a mission runner, with delayed local and 4h harass-party a day. That's a better statement john snow.

That's nice for you?
I bought my dread and carrier with my own ISK, and so has almost everyone else in this alliance.

Capitals are alliance level assets used to further the goals of the organisation as a whole. There's a reason why they specifically give you the capital hull rather than a pile of ISK to blow on exotic dancers or interceptors to derp around in lowsec, because they expect you to give them a return on the investment by showing up to structure shoot/rep ops.