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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vors
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:38:00 -
[1]
There are many people unhappy over the fact that some people are using suicide gankers in high sec. (A cheap fitted BS and frigate with scanner killing haulers before concorded)
Now this is an exploit for several reasons:
1. To gain is to risk in EVE. EVERY form of serious moneymaking
in EVE involves risk or is very time consuming, be it mining in low
sec or doing missions, there is NOT supposed to be a way to make
large amounts of money quick and easy. These guys KNOW they will
lose the BS and don't care, because they are gaining more than they
lose. I've heard of 500+ million cargoes lost to this.
2. EVERY form of pvp in EVE gives you a chance. If you are in
low sec, you KNOW you are risking yourself, so getting jumped is
fine. Going to war, you KNOW there are war targets, and you can
avoid them. This exploit gives you NO chance, you can be popped
ANYWHERE ANYTIME by ANYONE with no warning. That is ridiculous.
3. Even after you are popped and lose your valuable cargo, the
ones who popped you are in an npc corp, so there is nothing you
can do back to them, so they get away free. That to is total bull.
Even in war, you can strike back. Pirates in .4 or less in npc
corps are one thing, you can avoid em or are warned, but in a
system with 100+ people, where anyone can pop you with impunity,
THAT is an exploit.
Now, just so I'm not your typical whiner I can offer a solution that is simple
and involves minimum effort to do without changing the game much:
1. Make using a cargo scanner a Concordable offense. I do not
see why it isn't already, it's obviously a hostile act.
2. Make a cargo scanner have a delay that is long enough for
Concord to kill the user.
There. Simple, and you can STILL attack people in empire, just this way, you don't automaticly get far more than you lose, the element of risk is back as it should be.
To those who say use a shuttle for bpos, or a BS, I ask, why the hell should I be inconvenienced because of losers who abuse the rules? It DOES NOT matter how I carry my stuff in empire, what matters is that this act is wrong and against the spirit of the rules. There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire. PERIOD!
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Cmdr Sy
Off Balance Sheet Entity
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:42:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Vors
It DOES NOT matter how I carry my stuff in empire, what matters is *snip*
Yeah, it does.
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RichThugster
Gallente
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:42:00 -
[3]
S
T
F
U
Originally by: KIATolon
I just got owned
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Major Dim
Caldari
Russian SOBR
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:43:00 -
[4]
I partially agreee....however there is a problem. I fu look at the forums atm there is a post in another section about a kill of a freighter which could be scanned in empire...with making cargo scanning a concord act u would cut the alliances warfare logistics. cuz freighters and indies mostly arn't in the corps that u declare war on but in NPC corps or alt corps.
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Illegal
Khanid Manufacturing and Delivery
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:45:00 -
[5]
1. The risk is losing ship before you destroy your target. Where's the risk in running a mission you've run a hundred times before?
2. Transport ships cannot be taken down easily with this tactic.
3. Kill rights.
1. Stupidity doesnt deserve a fix, nor is it a bug.
--
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Major Dim
Caldari
Russian SOBR
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Illegal
2. Transport ships cannot be taken down easily with this tactic.
3. Kill rights.
1. Stupidity doesnt deserve a fix, nor is it a bug.
Shhh.....dont teach the people too much! they might become smarter!
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
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Posted - 2006.10.13 23:50:00 -
[7]
They die, you die, universe in perfect harmony!
Just hire out a freighter or transport ship to move the most important stuff, also kill rights.
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Xs 142
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Posted - 2006.10.14 00:37:00 -
[8]
Stupid people consider it an exploit
Smart people consider it stupid because of the bodyguards you brought.
*Choose your side.
Originally by: Oveur
Eternally yours,
The other dumbass 
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X ChaosX
Panzershrek
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Posted - 2006.10.14 00:44:00 -
[9]
Can't really fix an exploit that isn't there. No rules were broken like you said they were. You say you know that you could get attacked in low sec, wars, and 0.0. Well you should also know by now that you can be attacked in empire. Fit your ship accordingly. Empire was never safe, only safer.
______________________________________________
Originally by: Bill Shankly
i see your another one of those lousy pirates that cant fight fair and call yourself apvper, what a joke u are.
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Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:00:00 -
[10]
you could always just suicide gank them back. eye for an eye.
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Mayoz
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:12:00 -
[11]
didn't read um ...paragraph(sp) ur best buddy :D
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Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vors
To those who say use a shuttle for bpos, or a BS, I ask, why the hell should I be inconvenienced because of losers who abuse the rules?
EvE is a persistent universe and is not designed to be nice. People want to take advantage of you and enforce their will upon you. It's a cold, hard place and it helps if you trust noone.
You cannot expect game mechanics to cover for your lazyness / stupidity / stubborness and make things risk free for you.
You understand the mechanics, you understand the risk.
I transport expensive stuff almost daily. I take the appropriate precautions. If you cba then you deserve to explode.
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Gift
Amarr
Loot
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vors
There are many people unhappy over the fact that some people are using suicide gankers in high sec. (A cheap fitted BS and frigate with scanner killing haulers before concorded)
Now this is an exploit for several reasons:
1. To gain is to risk in EVE. EVERY form of serious moneymaking
in EVE involves risk or is very time consuming, be it mining in low
sec or doing missions, there is NOT supposed to be a way to make
large amounts of money quick and easy. These guys KNOW they will
lose the BS and don't care, because they are gaining more than they
lose. I've heard of 500+ million cargoes lost to this.
2. EVERY form of pvp in EVE gives you a chance. If you are in
low sec, you KNOW you are risking yourself, so getting jumped is
fine. Going to war, you KNOW there are war targets, and you can
avoid them. This exploit gives you NO chance, you can be popped
ANYWHERE ANYTIME by ANYONE with no warning. That is ridiculous.
3. Even after you are popped and lose your valuable cargo, the
ones who popped you are in an npc corp, so there is nothing you
can do back to them, so they get away free. That to is total bull.
Even in war, you can strike back. Pirates in .4 or less in npc
corps are one thing, you can avoid em or are warned, but in a
system with 100+ people, where anyone can pop you with impunity,
THAT is an exploit.
Now, just so I'm not your typical whiner I can offer a solution that is simple
and involves minimum effort to do without changing the game much:
1. Make using a cargo scanner a Concordable offense. I do not
see why it isn't already, it's obviously a hostile act.
2. Make a cargo scanner have a delay that is long enough for
Concord to kill the user.
There. Simple, and you can STILL attack people in empire, just this way, you don't automaticly get far more than you lose, the element of risk is back as it should be.
To those who say use a shuttle for bpos, or a BS, I ask, why the hell should I be inconvenienced because of losers who abuse the rules? It DOES NOT matter how I carry my stuff in empire, what matters is that this act is wrong and against the spirit of the rules. There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire. PERIOD!
There are a whole lot of assumptions in the gigantic paragraph, and pretty much everyone of them is wrong.
Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
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Lucas Garin
Caldari
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:18:00 -
[14]
As I said in another thread about this same subject recently, this tactic is one of the EASIEST things to avoid in the whole freakin game. Use your head, follow the advice that's been posted a zillion times and you will probably never get ganked.
It's not rocket science people. It's getting blown up because you're too st pid or lazy. 
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elbenito
Battlestars
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:30:00 -
[15]
Use a freighter. They have lots o' hit points, and they drop no cans when destroyed, so there's no profit in the gank. Yes, there are drawbacks, namely speed and cost involved, but being able to haul massive quantities of cargo safely in empire is definitely a useful trait. You could probably recoup your investment by working for hire.
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Steph Wing
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Posted - 2006.10.14 01:35:00 -
[16]
I think a more pertinent question is why so-called "victims" are exclusively mining in high-sec space.
Suicide ganking in high-sec space wouldn't be a problem if there were any serious mining ops elsewhere.
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Hakiem
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Posted - 2006.10.14 03:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Hakiem on 14/10/2006 03:28:53
Originally by: Mayoz
didn't read um ...paragraph(sp) ur best buddy :D
Simply put he said "I am a noob, I was killed in empire, while carring something valuable in a cardboard box and it is not fair."
Then there was a lot of crying.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.10.14 05:55:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Audri Fisher on 14/10/2006 05:56:04
Originally by: Illegal
1. The risk is losing ship before you destroy your target. Where's the risk in running a mission you've run a hundred times before?
2. Transport ships cannot be taken down easily with this tactic.
3. Kill rights.
1. Stupidity doesnt deserve a fix, nor is it a bug.
Since when do you get kill rights when your ship is killed?
That only applies to pod kills. Like you said, there is no fix to stupidity, esp yours.
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Pestillence
Chav-Scum
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Posted - 2006.10.14 06:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Edited by: Audri Fisher on 14/10/2006 05:56:04
Originally by: Illegal
1. The risk is losing ship before you destroy your target. Where's the risk in running a mission you've run a hundred times before?
2. Transport ships cannot be taken down easily with this tactic.
3. Kill rights.
1. Stupidity doesnt deserve a fix, nor is it a bug.
Since when do you get kill rights when your ship is killed?
That only applies to pod kills. Like you said, there is no fix to stupidity, esp yours.
You get killrights if your ship is destroyed and you dont aggress back,
Might want to change the bit about stupidity there champ
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Vors
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Posted - 2006.10.14 06:19:00 -
[20]
Wow, not a SINGLE person refuted ANYTHING I said, most of the replies are the unbeleivably stupid "Gee, don't get killed" variety. Thanks, how helpfull. Some said I was wrong, but no reason as to why. All in all, not a single helpfull reply.
Yes, EVE is about risk. Duh. So then why do these suicide gankers have NO RISK at all, but they gain a lot? Why are the haulers at risk but not the gankers? To gain without risk by abusing the rules is an exploit. This ain't about a noob complaining about losing his hauler (I'm no noob, and I'm no stranger to losing stuff) This is about people taking advantage of a loophole to gain without risk. Duh.
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X ChaosX
Panzershrek
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Posted - 2006.10.14 07:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vors
Wow, not a SINGLE person refuted ANYTHING I said, most of the replies are the unbeleivably stupid "Gee, don't get killed" variety. Thanks, how helpfull. Some said I was wrong, but no reason as to why. All in all, not a single helpfull reply.
Yes, EVE is about risk. Duh. So then why do these suicide gankers have NO RISK at all, but they gain a lot? Why are the haulers at risk but not the gankers? To gain without risk by abusing the rules is an exploit. This ain't about a noob complaining about losing his hauler (I'm no noob, and I'm no stranger to losing stuff) This is about people taking advantage of a loophole to gain without risk. Duh.
The gankers are at risk, you can always get some people and suicide gank them first right? Again with the abusing the rules, they aren't. If attacking in high sec was against the rules, CCP would just use some dev magic to turn it off.
______________________________________________
Originally by: Bill Shankly
i see your another one of those lousy pirates that cant fight fair and call yourself apvper, what a joke u are.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.14 08:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Pestillence
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Edited by: Audri Fisher on 14/10/2006 05:56:04
Originally by: Illegal
1. The risk is losing ship before you destroy your target. Where's the risk in running a mission you've run a hundred times before?
2. Transport ships cannot be taken down easily with this tactic.
3. Kill rights.
1. Stupidity doesnt deserve a fix, nor is it a bug.
Since when do you get kill rights when your ship is killed?
That only applies to pod kills. Like you said, there is no fix to stupidity, esp yours.
You get killrights if your ship is destroyed and you dont aggress back,
Might want to change the bit about stupidity there champ
1) You get aggresion rigth for 15 minutes;
2) you don't get them on the friends of the attackers that pick your cargo;
3) the use of disposable ALT to avoid the standing loss is an exploit;
4) if you use your main or a character you will keep, you are starting a pirate carrer and no problems.
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Cloud Alexander
Nubs.
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Posted - 2006.10.14 08:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vors
Wow, not a SINGLE person refuted ANYTHING I said, most of the replies are the unbeleivably stupid "Gee, don't get killed" variety. Thanks, how helpfull. Some said I was wrong, but no reason as to why. All in all, not a single helpfull reply.
Yes, EVE is about risk. Duh. So then why do these suicide gankers have NO RISK at all, but they gain a lot? Why are the haulers at risk but not the gankers? To gain without risk by abusing the rules is an exploit. This ain't about a noob complaining about losing his hauler (I'm no noob, and I'm no stranger to losing stuff) This is about people taking advantage of a loophole to gain without risk. Duh.
1. You get killrights, since im almost sure the hauler wont fight back in time. So yes you do get to do something to that very same character when you see him agian.
2. His sec will drop to the point where he cannot enter high sec to do this.
3. They do loose there there ship, they dont get away without loosing something.
All of the above is the risk the character that does the killing will have to face. So its not a "NO RISK" thing.
Heres my counter to your arguement.
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.14 09:22:00 -
[24]
Unbelievable.... MORE whining about fairness.... WHEN will people EVER get that life ISNT fair?? Course it's unfair, course its not nice, course it sucks and should be punished. DUH! But that's real-world thinking and small-town morality, while this, is a game. A virtual world where people can release their true nature with impunity. Noone is fined, noone is jailed, noone gets lashes or a lynching. The closest thing to an actual punishment would be an IP-ban, but that can be circumvented in literally minutes with simple IP-spoof tools available freely on the net.
This is what we are as a species, life with it.
I honestly believe that one could set up a fund for "poor underprivileged grief victims", and pull in just as much as those funds for the "poor underprivileged african kids". In fact, I'm surprised noone's used that as a scam yet. With some of the insipid behaviour I've seen in this game, I am truly amazed that noone has stooped that low.
Frankly IMHO it's just a matter of time, really... Maybe this post will give someone the idea and then I'll be the evil grieferdevilpirate behind the whole thing. Have fun flaming me if it makes you feel better.
Now Vors, while I applaud your valiant attempt to bring justice to this issue by doing nothing about it and whining like a little eco-warrior floating his little dingy in the way of global commerce and complaining the half million ton tanker ignored and almost hit his 40 pound inflatable raft, I would suggest you stop your childish campaign for fairness, and get proactive.
If you dont want to lose your ship, dont fly paperweights. Use freighters, use escorts, use scouts, use teamspeak. If you run through space that falls under a faction, bribe the faction. Instas, safespots, cloaks and coordinated movement will get you wherever you want to go. If specific people hassle you, study them. Find out their daily log patterns, and move your stuff when they're offline.
In short : get your act together and stop whining.
my 2cents
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.14 09:27:00 -
[25]
Although, since youre all whiney about noone helping you, here a hint : carry stuff in passworded secure cans.
that one's free.
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Johnny Twoshoe
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.14 09:32:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Johnny Twoshoe on 14/10/2006 09:33:04
Originally by: Vors
<snip>
1. And yet, people like you will run level 4s all day, with almost no risk. I seem to remember a bug in Worlds Collide that allowed people to make billions by waiting for the battleships in said mission to respawn. Billions could be made with some hours of camping. No, it's not fast, but it is easy.
As for the suicide gankers, they prey on people who are not prepared; just like pirates in low-sec. You were not prepared, therefore you died.
2. You're right. You can be popped anywhere, at any time, by anyone, including high-sec. This is not an exploit, but a lack of preparation on the part of the target.
You did indeed have a chance, but you chose not to take advantage of it. You did not take every precaution available to you; had you done so, the odds of something like this happening would have drastically decreased (tech 2 hauler tanked to hell and / or escorts) or become non-existent (a freighter.)
0.5+ is not safe space, it is safer space.
3. Kill rights.
[Your Solutions]
1. How is cargo scanning a hostile act? If you want to make sure they don't know what you're carrying, fill your hold with secure cans and put your load into those cans. They won't be able to open them to see what's inside, thus they will be less likely to take the chance.
2. Refer back to 1.
- - -
There is a penalty for attacking someone in high-sec - loss of a ship. Yet the gankers know that their targets are not smart enough to prevent themselves becoming targets. EVE is brutal, harsh, and unforgiving. CCP planned it that way from day one - survival of the fittest; natural selection; adapt or die.
It seems that your objective is to make piracy, such as suicide ganking, totally unprofitable. In conclusion, I can see nothing wrong with this tactic; it is valid and acceptable (though, not always from the victim's point of view.) You were not ready to carry 500+ million ISK worth of assets, and you paid dearly. Learn your lesson and move on.
~~~
Like a blind hammer...
That destroys what it can't see... |
Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2006.10.14 09:52:00 -
[27]
hey hey
I recently had my suicide cherry popped. shame i was afk and missed it but . . .
the ship (fleet firetail) i was in survived and the ganker didnt. :)
he wasnt doing it for the cargo (implants, faction stuff etc . . ), he was doing it for the fun and anoyance factor.
The only thing i agree on is that cargo scanners should be an act of agression. Where i agree that empire should be safe there is plenty of game mechanics that will help prevent suiciders and empire does not mean 100% safe. CCP have not and probably will not come out and say its an exploit. Its within current game mechanics and within current game rules.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.14 10:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Although, since youre all whiney about noone helping you, here a hint : carry stuff in passworded secure cans.
that one's free.
Well, you really are not very bright. Secure cans only work if they are anchored, DUH!
I see nothing wrong with suicide ganking in empire space if:
1. the players are not using trial accounts
2. the players are not getting insurance
3. if there was actually a defense other than have a ship they cannot pop before Concord can kill them
Now since we all know there is no risk vs. rewards in Eve. I donÆt expect the ôno-risk suicide gankingö to change. However, the ôyouÆre too stupid to know how easy this is to avoidö line of excrement is getting old.
If CCP really wanted to fix empire piracy to so that there really was risk vs. rewards, then they should make a few simple changes:
1. You cannot use trial accounts for fighting in high sec empire space.
2. If youÆre not in a corp war with the target you aggressed, then you donÆt get insurance pay out.
3. Put a timer, say 15 minutes, that keeps anyone not in the same corp/alliance or a corp/alliance that is at war with the own from opening.
Not that I expect CCP to do this since the truth is, they want to make high sec as unpleasant as possible so that people will be forced into 0.0
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.14 10:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vors
There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire. PERIOD!
It's called Sec loss, and losing your ship. Sides, If your making it profitable for the player to kill and still lose their ship, well, the problem is not with the players popping haulers. It just gives them incentive to do it again. It's why so many people are doing it now. They found that they can make money, and people, instead of adapting ingame, whine on message boards out of the game, which gets more people interested into popping haulers to make isk.
If it's a concern, make more trips, carriny less cargo per trip. If your only hauling 50 million worth of good, I doubt a 60 million BS and a Frig are gonna pop you.
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Lucus Ranger
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.10.14 10:26:00 -
[30]
As long as the player looses his ship, I don't see the problem. It's the haulers fault if they allowed themselves to be ganked.
Btw last time I checked Cargo Scanners don't distinguash whether a blueprint is a bpo or bpc, so there is somewhat risk involved 
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.14 10:31:00 -
[31]
Edited by: M4sterm1nd on 14/10/2006 10:31:01
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Well, you really are not very bright. Secure cans only work if they are anchored, DUH!
Can you see into the can with a scanner?
No.
next?
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.14 10:46:00 -
[32]
Edited by: F''nog on 14/10/2006 10:48:05
Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Edited by: M4sterm1nd on 14/10/2006 10:31:01
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Well, you really are not very bright. Secure cans only work if they are anchored, DUH!
Can you see into the can with a scanner?
No.
next?
Um, YES.
PWN'd.
Next.
Edit - I do not in any way agree with the OP's whine. I just like highlighting stupidity when I see it, even if it's from an Alliance mate.
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.14 11:34:00 -
[33]
You can see into a can while it's in a ship?
Thats actually news to me, thanks for the heads up, mate.
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Evil RedEye
Minmatar
Maquis Drakonic
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Posted - 2006.10.14 11:46:00 -
[34]
-sigh- not another thread....
Okay, this is NOT an exploit, why?! Because the person who suicides looses his ship which follows game mechanics. Concord warp in, concord kill you. It really is that simple. Dont want to loose your ship? Get a transport ship and tank it up. They're not particularly easy to suicide when tanked up, or as suggested load your stuff into containers unless things have changed, afaik scanners do NOT show what's in them.
Also Risk/Gain factor isn't aslways perfect. I've seen almost 2bill isk worth of morphite blow up in my face.
Destroyed items:
Morphite, Qty: 86047 (Cargo)
But what was carrying it!?
Victim: *************
Alliance: None
Corp: **********
Destroyed: Badger
System: Kisogo
Security: 1.0
You also miss the point that once I have UNLAWFULLY killed you via suiciding you will have killrights on me for the next 30days when you can hunt me down kill me etc
And finally, There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire... wait, kill rights, loss of ship and lowered security status ISNT a penalty!?...
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Nikla Uthaan
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Posted - 2006.10.14 11:51:00 -
[35]
One tactic i enjoy?
Flying expensive loot such as implants, BPs etc in a Condor.
What numptee would scan condors instead of cargo ships?
One word,, emo,,, |
Stephar
The High Priest
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Posted - 2006.10.14 12:07:00 -
[36]
I think there's definitely a problem with high security ganking. Get 4 trial accounts, train up for Caracals, pick a gate in high security to camp. Pop anything that is profitable. Considering that the cost of losing 4 caracals + fittings after insurance is like, 10 million(?), and assuming that half of the cargo is destroyed, you'll basically profit on any target with a cargohold value of over 20 million ISK. That's kinda low. Add in the fact that these characters aren't even PAYING for a subscription, and they are griefing actual subscribers... I'm not seeing how this is good for the game.
I'd have less of a problem with high security ganking if it was only done by veteran pilots who could be hunted down at a later date. But as it stands, the gankers are often disposable non-paying accounts who disappear from the game after the trial period expires.
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Beringe
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2006.10.14 12:09:00 -
[37]
CCP implemented kill rights to try and help fix stupidity.
It did, but not in the way the whiners thought it would.
-------------------------------------------
"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.14 12:31:00 -
[38]
I'm on the fence as to weather I consider suicide ganking to be…. “acceptable” to some degree, although given I’ve considered doing it with my alt (a mainey kind of alt, not a disposable one) so I guess that puts me in the “its ok” dept.
However one argument that’s being made here is that the risk and reward fallacy*cough* I mean risk and reward ‘system’ is still intact because they lose there ship and security status.
This is completely wrong.
Seriously trying to convince anyone that, for example 500 million isk of minerals, or a T2 BPO, or many decent T1 BPOS…. Or indeed Anything that would be worth doing this for is in any way equal to a ship, a ship which btw is OBVIOUSLEY going to be worth less than the cargo of the ship it is targeting, or equal to a little sec hit which might force you to rat 0.0 for a week which is of course profitable in itself, is just nonsense and quite frankly insulting the intelligence of most of the people here.
Maybe it is ok to do this, but the penalty does not anywhere nearly fit the crime, and before anyone starts whining “but its not supposed to be fair”, stuff like logon traps, or copying BM’s to create lag isent fair either, at what point does bending the game mechanics for profit become an exploit exactly? Mabey just maybe there should be harsher penaltys for doing this, or other ways to guard against it besides skilling for an entire MONTH to fly a T2 hauler, for what may be a one time move.
---
(.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny. |
Lillith Argent
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 12:52:00 -
[39]
It's acceptable for just as long as macrominers are.
/wave OP.
|
M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 13:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Nikla Uthaan
One tactic i enjoy?
Flying expensive loot such as implants, BPs etc in a Condor.
What numptee would scan condors instead of cargo ships?
OMG! Kewl! I use Ibises to move my BPOs  
|
|
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 13:38:00 -
[41]
You know this is partly the reason i got a alt after 2 years. Save transport is worth a lot, so thats why my alt is training into transport ships. Just freacking adapt. If i was a industrial char i would have had transport ships trained a looooong time ago.
_________________________________________________
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 13:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Evil RedEye
Destroyed items:
Morphite, Qty: 86047 (Cargo)
But what was carrying it!?
Victim: *************
Alliance: None
Corp: **********
Destroyed: Badger
System: Kisogo
Security: 1.0
OMFG there is money to be made!!
_________________________________________________
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thatguyinpc
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 21:59:00 -
[43]
Hi gang,
First off, neither containers nor escrow/courier packaging blocks the scanner.
If CCP will add a cheap high slot mod with low fitting requirements that block scanners then the majority of this problem will go away.
Guy
|
Yggdrassil
Amarrian Missionaires
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 22:14:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
*stuff*
1. You cannot use trial accounts for fighting in high sec empire space.
*more stuff*
Quoted for truth. Getting a char with enough damage to insta-pop haulers in a trial account, with a few friends assisting is too easy, and has ZERO downsides as the trial account will be gone after the timeout/all 3 char got -5.1 security standing, whatever comes first.
Yggdrassil |
Vors
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 22:39:00 -
[45]
Thank you, finally some intelligent responces. But many people still just don't get it. The suicide gankers are still gaining far more than they lose. (If you call them really losing anything)
It's not whining if you have a solution to the problem:
1. Cargo scanners become an act of aggression. I do not understand why this is not a duh thing, what possible reason would ANYONE have to scan your cargo unless they are planning to kill you? It is standard military policy that anyone who lights you up with targetting radar is hostile and will be killed. Oh, darn, let's not bring anything resembling reality in here.
2. Make Cargo Scan a long enough delay so they die from concord. You can still have these pathetic lil suicide gankers do their thing, just now they would actually share the same risk as the rest of us since they would not know what the cargo is.
(Oh, and the little stuff I lost WAS in secure cans, I found out later scanners go right through em) So much for precautions.
The suggestion for carrying stuff in a Freighter are so terribly helpful, thanks.
|
Pestillence
Chav-Scum
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 22:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Vors
Oh, darn, let's not bring anything resembling reality in here.
It's a game where we fly around in eggs with tubes up our arses. If I want reality I'll go outside.
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thatguyinpc
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 02:21:00 -
[47]
Edited by: thatguyinpc on 15/10/2006 02:22:56
Vors,
If we were to implement your idea the logical conclusion for the pirates would be to merely have one of their members (read: alts) scan you from a velator (starter ship). Then gank as normal.
IÆve spent a lot of time thinking about this problem (despite the fact that I havenÆt been a victim yet). Everyone (but the pirates themselves) agree that disposable alts are a problem. However, the very nature of a disposable alt makes it to hard for the players or CCP to track and ban.
Restricting new players (in an effort to stop alts) would seem to be a solution that CCP doesnÆt want to pursue, as itÆs a great way to introduce new players to the game. It also would do nothing to restrict this very lucrative business for vets.
Restricting PVP in High Sec is never gonna happen, nuff said.
So, I come back to my earlier idea. Introduce a high slot mod that blocks scanning.
ItÆs in the best tradition of EVE in that every tactic has a counter, for other examples consider ECM vs ECCM & Warp Core Scramblers vs Warp Core Stabilizers
DoesnÆt prevent suicide gankers from conducting business if they so choose.
DoesnÆt prevent anyone from getting revenge in high sec if they so choose.
Does allow new players to enjoy the same level of game play they currently have.
Puts the risk back into the risk/reward ratio for pirates/suicide gankers.
It doesnÆt give an I-win button to haulers or anyone else for that matter, the are just as vulnerable as ever, only now pirates have to gamble on whether or not they are a worthwhile target. (Makes a spies job all the more important).
Think it through, the implementation of this single mod would largely make this problem go away.
Guy
|
Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 03:14:00 -
[48]
Scanner's should not be hostile... its not a hostile offense... concord guys use passive targetters and scan you for drugs.
----------------------------------------
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DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 04:23:00 -
[49]
Edited by: DeODokktor on 15/10/2006 04:24:34
ccp just need to remove insurance on concord kill
they say they want because "mistakes happen"
but most of those "mistakes" get petiton'd and who knows how many of those get refunded (gank's dont get refunded)
concord kill = no insurance
and
Sentry guns sensor jam ;)
|
Reckless Eddie
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 05:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vors
1. Cargo scanners become an act of aggression. I do not understand why this is not a duh thing, what possible reason would ANYONE have to scan your cargo unless they are planning to kill you? It is standard military policy that anyone who lights you up with targetting radar is hostile and will be killed. Oh, darn, let's not bring anything resembling reality in here.
this is a bad idea because many people gang with others who will haul their mission loot for them
they sometimes fit scanners so that they can keep the hauler honest
it's bad enough that people can't share loot through cans any more because of the paranoia around can flagging
more mod nerfs are not the answer
nerf insurance for criminal actions resulting in ship death
watched you cry, watched you fly, watched you die |
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Caleb Paine
ISS Navy Task Force
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 05:24:00 -
[51]
How about walking through New York at day time with a couple of $100 bills hanging half from your pockets, all alone. Guess what happens...
There IS a way to make your cargo unscannable, there IS a way to make your ship survive an alpha strike and there IS a way to have a scout ahead to check for trouble. I don't see the problem really, you refused to put in effort, you refused to even think for a second about how you could secure your valuable cargo, therefore you chose to be blown up.
--------------------------------
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back |
thatguyinpc
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 08:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Caleb Paine
There IS a way to make your cargo unscannable, there IS a way to make your ship survive an alpha strike and there IS a way to have a scout ahead to check for trouble. I don't see the problem really, you refused to put in effort, you refused to even think for a second about how you could secure your valuable cargo, therefore you chose to be blown up.
How do you make your cargo unscannable?
Guy
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 11:44:00 -
[53]
Okay, can anyone get a final word on this?
Can someone otherwise just get out there and test a few things?
1. Can you scan a cargo can in space?
[ ] YES [ ] NO
2. Can you scan a secure can in space?
unanchored, no password..........[ ] YES [ ] NO
anchored, no password..............[ ] YES [ ] NO
unanchored, with password........[ ] YES [ ] NO
anchored, with password............[ ] YES [ ] NO
3. Can u scan a cargo can in a ship?
[ ] YES [ ] NO
4. Can you scan a secure can in a ship?
with password...........................[ ] YES [ ] NO
without password.......................[ ] YES [ ] NO
5. If you load a secure can into your cargo hold and password it, does it stay passworded if you eject it to save it from your ship's destruction?
[ ] YES [ ] NO
tyvm
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 12:35:00 -
[54]
1. Can you scan a cargo can in space?
[X] YES [ ] NO
2. Can you scan a secure can in space?
unanchored, no password..........[X] YES [ ] NO
anchored, no password..............[X] YES [ ] NO
unanchored, with password........[X] YES [ ] NO
anchored, with password............[X] YES [ ] NO
3. Can u scan a cargo can in a ship?
[X] YES [ ] NO
4. Can you scan a secure can in a ship?
with password...........................[X] YES [ ] NO
without password.......................[X] YES [ ] NO
5. If you load a secure can into your cargo hold and password it, does it stay passworded if you eject it to save it from your ship's destruction?
[ ] YES [X] NO
Addendum:
I use a Small secure Audit-Log Container for testing.
There is a way to make yourself unscannable. It requires the use of something that borders on lagsploit: Put a few hundred BMs into a small can and carry that around too.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 12:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Evil RedEye
-sigh- not another thread....
Okay, this is NOT an exploit, why?! Because the person who suicides looses his ship which follows game mechanics. Concord warp in, concord kill you. It really is that simple. Dont want to loose your ship? Get a transport ship and tank it up. They're not particularly easy to suicide when tanked up, or as suggested load your stuff into containers unless things have changed, afaik scanners do NOT show what's in them.
Also Risk/Gain factor isn't aslways perfect. I've seen almost 2bill isk worth of morphite blow up in my face.
Destroyed items:
Morphite, Qty: 86047 (Cargo)
But what was carrying it!?
Victim: *************
Alliance: None
Corp: **********
Destroyed: Badger
System: Kisogo
Security: 1.0
You also miss the point that once I have UNLAWFULLY killed you via suiciding you will have killrights on me for the next 30days when you can hunt me down kill me etc
And finally, There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire... wait, kill rights, loss of ship and lowered security status ISNT a penalty!?...
All the above is valid only if you do it with your main. If that is true my hat to you, but most of those doing it use disposable alt, then the effect is zero (remember the insurance).
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Argenton Sayvers
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 12:48:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 15/10/2006 12:54:01
Ban people who define exploit as "something i dont like". Problem solved.
Your "arguments" are a mockery to facts, logic and reason. Better researched ones have been refuted a thousand times.
The problem is that some people believe that hauling expensive items - or even hauling in general - should just be a mindless afk timesink instead of an adventure.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
All the above is valid only if you do it with your main. If that is true my hat to you, but most of those doing it use disposable alt, then the effect is zero (remember the insurance).
I have 21 mains spread over 7 accounts. Alts are a totall different topic that affects EVERY aspect of eve. And alts are here to stay.
And the fun part? You cannot even suicide anyone unless you spend skill points. Guess what, i have "lab rats", meaning an account where all 3 slots are filled with characters that have trained the research skills. So thats an exploit as well? Please stop this "disposable" nonsense. If you actually get ganked by a truely disposable alt (on a trial account), you deserve to be named and shamed.
|
Saffin
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 12:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Xenofur
1. Can you scan a cargo can in space?
[X] YES [ ] NO
2. Can you scan a secure can in space?
unanchored, no password..........[X] YES [ ] NO
anchored, no password..............[X] YES [ ] NO
unanchored, with password........[X] YES [ ] NO
anchored, with password............[X] YES [ ] NO
3. Can u scan a cargo can in a ship?
[X] YES [ ] NO
4. Can you scan a secure can in a ship?
with password...........................[X] YES [ ] NO
without password.......................[X] YES [ ] NO
5. If you load a secure can into your cargo hold and password it, does it stay passworded if you eject it to save it from your ship's destruction?
[ ] YES [X] NO
Addendum:
I use a Small secure Audit-Log Container for testing.
There is a way to make yourself unscannable. It requires the use of something that borders on lagsploit: Put a few hundred BMs into a small can and carry that around too.
I haven't tried this but i have heard that escrow packages are un scannable. So if you put stuff on escrow for 1 day to a person and they dont claim it is returned to you in a escrow package. Then transport the escrow package.
As for this being a expliot i have heard this MANY times before, mostly from newer players because they think secure space is supposed to be safe. It isn't concord are not police they do not stop crime they just enact retribution. You can do what you want to anyone (without consent) in secure space, however the price you MUST pay is your ship.
Saf
|
Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 13:12:00 -
[58]
argenton, we're talking about throwaway trial alts, not fulltime running paid alts. ;)
|
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Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 13:29:00 -
[59]
Vors: Here's a tip, when your post content is really large, its useful to break up the post into chunks so people can easily reply and contribute to the thread. Without doing that some people will just start unneccesarily flaming and trolling. When there's too much of flaming and trolling we will lock a thread. Due to that your voice/opinion will get lost, and you dont want that to happen do ya?
I'm not the grammer police, but I'm trying to make my job easier and your point heard.
Anyways, here's a simple example of how your post would look formatted.
__
There are many people unhappy over the fact that some people are using suicide gankers in high sec. (A cheap fitted BS and frigate with scanner killing haulers before concorded)
Now this is an exploit for several reasons:
1. To gain is to risk in EVE. EVERY form of serious moneymaking in EVE involves risk or is very time consuming, be it mining in low sec or doing missions, there is NOT supposed to be a way to make large amounts of money quick and easy. These guys KNOW they will lose the BS and don't care, because they are gaining more than they lose. I've heard of 500+ million cargoes lost to this.
2. EVERY form of pvp in EVE gives you a chance. If you are in low sec, you KNOW you are risking yourself, so getting jumped is fine. Going to war, you KNOW there are war targets, and you can avoid them. This exploit gives you NO chance, you can be popped ANYWHERE ANYTIME by ANYONE with no warning. That is ridiculous.
3. Even after you are popped and lose your valuable cargo, the ones who popped you are in an npc corp, so there is nothing you can do back to them, so they get away free. That to is total bull. Even in war, you can strike back. Pirates in .4 or less in npc corps are one thing, you can avoid em or are warned, but in a system with 100+ people, where anyone can pop you with impunity, THAT is an exploit.
Now, just so I'm not your typical whiner I can offer a solution that is simple and involves minimum effort to do without changing the game much:
1. Make using a cargo scanner a Concordable offense. I do not see why it isn't already, it's obviously a hostile act.
2. Make a cargo scanner have a delay that is long enough for Concord to kill the user. There. Simple, and you can STILL attack people in empire, just this way, you don't automaticly get far more than you lose, the element of risk is back as it should be. To those who say use a shuttle for bpos, or a BS, I ask, why the hell should I be inconvenienced because of losers who abuse the rules? It DOES NOT matter how I carry my stuff in empire, what matters is that this act is wrong and against the spirit of the rules.
There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire. PERIOD!
___
Email Us (Report a bad post) | Forum Rules - Read 'em! | Website |
|
Evil RedEye
Minmatar
Maquis Drakonic
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 13:30:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Evil RedEye
-sigh- not another thread....
Okay, this is NOT an exploit, why?! Because the person who suicides looses his ship which follows game mechanics. Concord warp in, concord kill you. It really is that simple. Dont want to loose your ship? Get a transport ship and tank it up. They're not particularly easy to suicide when tanked up, or as suggested load your stuff into containers unless things have changed, afaik scanners do NOT show what's in them.
Also Risk/Gain factor isn't aslways perfect. I've seen almost 2bill isk worth of morphite blow up in my face.
Destroyed items:
Morphite, Qty: 86047 (Cargo)
But what was carrying it!?
Victim: *************
Alliance: None
Corp: **********
Destroyed: Badger
System: Kisogo
Security: 1.0
You also miss the point that once I have UNLAWFULLY killed you via suiciding you will have killrights on me for the next 30days when you can hunt me down kill me etc
And finally, There is supposed to be a penalty for killing someone in empire... wait, kill rights, loss of ship and lowered security status ISNT a penalty!?...
All the above is valid only if you do it with your main. If that is true my hat to you, but most of those doing it use disposable alt, then the effect is zero (remember the insurance).
Yup always use my main, but using disposable alt/trial accounts needs to be stopped if people really are using them =(
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|
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 13:31:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Xenofur on 15/10/2006 13:31:50
@ Eldo Davip
i think this is at the same time the most excellent and most confusing post i have ever seen. o.o
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Caleb Paine
ISS Navy Task Force
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 15:50:00 -
[62]
There is ANOTHER way of making your cargo unscannable which isn't "borderline exploit" like the BM trick.
--------------------------------
Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back |
thatguyinpc
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 16:21:00 -
[63]
Edited by: thatguyinpc on 15/10/2006 16:23:05
To the gentleman that just took the time to test the can. Sorry I fell asleep bud, I could have answered that question (in fact I did earlier in the post).
Using the escrow/courier plastic wrap trick does not work either.
I have even tried putting the plastic wrap item in a can and got a message that it's not possible to put a packaged item into the can.
So I ask again Paine, how do you make your cargo unscannable?
_____________________________________________
Asking for a high slot mod that blocks scanning negates the whole exploit argument, and takes the wind out of the sails of suicide gankers because if they argue against the mod it shows their own carebearness in that they want relatively risk free reward.
Guy
|
Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 16:23:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Caleb Paine
There is ANOTHER way of making your cargo unscannable which isn't "borderline exploit" like the BM trick.
Feel free to enlighten us. :)
|
Vors
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 00:05:00 -
[65]
Thanks for some VERY good and intelligent replies, I will use the BM trick, but it still does not solve the problem. I want to fix this because I believe it will make EVE better, it's already an amazing game.
To all those who tell me that EVE is about risk, I agree. But you guys are making my point for me. When a suicide ganker attacks, he will KNOW exactly what he will lose, and he will KNOW exactly what he is going to gain. Um...where is the risk? Kill rights and sec loss are not much penalties at all really.
So once again, I ask, why is it ok for suicide gankers to benefit without real loss?
P.S. I love the idea of a high slot Scan Blocker mod, VERY good idea.
|
Jones Maloy
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 01:15:00 -
[66]
dude one of my core mates almost killed a covetor with a t2 rifter just for kicks. he was running from concord about 2 minutes, then he got popped. i was laughing my ass off that the covetor just kept mining like nothing had happened. he should have been suspicious of 4 frigs with crappy sec status just milling around a belt.
P.S. lol
P.P.S. i have used a ship scanner to check the loadout of a war target (i was not in the corp at the time). and i've considered just going around scanning people for interesting fitting ideas. lock everyone you see and hope one panics and attacks you. free loot.
it's not an exploit because they lose sec status, their ship, and you have kill rights on them. a battleship costs at least 60-mil. just use instas-smaller faster ships-warp out of there-tank tank tank-use frieghters-and generaly make it less profitable for them to kill you. it sucks to get killed in high-sec but there are workarounds to avoid it however expensive-hard-time consuming they may be.
sig indecision...lol
Gaming Laptop |
thatguyinpc
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 16:00:00 -
[67]
Paine,
We're still waiting to hear how you make your cargo unscannable.
Guy
|
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 19:34:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Vors
I love the idea of a high slot Scan Blocker mod, VERY good idea.
Yeah it is pretty bright tbh.
I suggest that the whole scanning thing would have to be revamped to allow for ranges of modules of varying scan strength and blocking strength, so that Concorde scans would be extremely hard to block.
Snake implants could then be adjusted to modify the block strength of appropriate modules, instead of adding a bonus to the vague "smuggling chance" statistic.
"If you kill all the wolves, you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies. And by bunnies I mean stupid people." Ask Ninja |
Raven Norsca
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 19:59:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Saffin
Originally by: Xenofur
1. Can you scan a cargo can in space?
[X] YES [ ] NO
2. Can you scan a secure can in space?
unanchored, no password..........[X] YES [ ] NO
anchored, no password..............[X] YES [ ] NO
unanchored, with password........[X] YES [ ] NO
anchored, with password............[X] YES [ ] NO
3. Can u scan a cargo can in a ship?
[X] YES [ ] NO
4. Can you scan a secure can in a ship?
with password...........................[X] YES [ ] NO
without password.......................[X] YES [ ] NO
5. If you load a secure can into your cargo hold and password it, does it stay passworded if you eject it to save it from your ship's destruction?
[ ] YES [X] NO
Addendum:
I use a Small secure Audit-Log Container for testing.
There is a way to make yourself unscannable. It requires the use of something that borders on lagsploit: Put a few hundred BMs into a small can and carry that around too.
I haven't tried this but i have heard that escrow packages are un scannable. So if you put stuff on escrow for 1 day to a person and they dont claim it is returned to you in a escrow package. Then transport the escrow package.
As for this being a expliot i have heard this MANY times before, mostly from newer players because they think secure space is supposed to be safe. It isn't concord are not police they do not stop crime they just enact retribution. You can do what you want to anyone (without consent) in secure space, however the price you MUST pay is your ship.
Saf
shrink wrap used to be unscanable but now you see through it
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 20:00:00 -
[70]
The only two options that are even close to workable and fair to both sides would be to:
1: End insurance payouts for ships killed by Concord. However, you are going to hear a lot of screaming about it from people that accidentally trigger a Concord response. And yes, we will all laugh at them.
2: Make secure cans unscannable. This allows the suicide gankers to prey on the lazy, but protects the Empire dwellers that have a few grey cells left. They are, after all, supposed to be secure so I could see that including being proofed agains a scan.
And no, I do not think it is too easy to suicide gank in Empire... but I'm getting sick of listening to the endless sobbing.
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Farscape Hw
Solidline Enterprise
Kith of Venal
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 20:12:00 -
[71]
2006.10.02 00:55
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Catalyst
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.02 01:41
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.02 03:03
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Megathron
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.02 05:37
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.16 05:28
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: Kith of Venal
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.16 05:47
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: Kith of Venal
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.16 06:40
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: Kith of Venal
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.16 07:07
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: Kith of Venal
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.16 19:37
Victim: Farscape Hw
Alliance: Kith of Venal
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.01 23:48
Victim: Bloodst0ne
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.02 00:54
Victim: Bloodst0ne
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
2006.10.02 02:26
Victim: Bloodst0ne
Alliance: NONE
Corp: Solidline Enterprise
Destroyed: Thorax
System: Jita
Security: 0.9
omg i got like 40 more but i better not post them or it will be spamming
my sig got nerfed by serethathetawhatever |
Farscape Hw
Solidline Enterprise
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.10.16 20:18:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Farscape Hw on 16/10/2006 20:19:55
but dude the thing is, dont fly around afk, thats where 99% of suicide ganks come from, afkers that have reached destination, eve is not an afk game. use your instas and if your transporting bpo's or officer mods do it in a covert.
also nearly all the loot that i blow a guy up for gets destroyed, ive blown up billions over the last month or so and have just broke even on cost of the ship and guns.
its not an exploit so stop your *****ing
its just something fun to do :)
my sig got nerfed by serethathetawhatever |
thatguyinpc
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Posted - 2006.10.17 04:12:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Ranger 1
The only two options that are even close to workable and fair to both sides would be to:
1: End insurance payouts for ships killed by Concord. However, you are going to hear a lot of screaming about it from people that accidentally trigger a Concord response. And yes, we will all laugh at them.
2: Make secure cans unscannable. This allows the suicide gankers to prey on the lazy, but protects the Empire dwellers that have a few grey cells left. They are, after all, supposed to be secure so I could see that including being proofed agains a scan.
And no, I do not think it is too easy to suicide gank in Empire... but I'm getting sick of listening to the endless sobbing.
While I can agree that CCP should strongly consider suspending insurance payouts for ships destroyed by Concord, I disagree with you about the secure containers.
IÆm not sure how you concluded that the above two ways are the only ideas that are close to workable and fair to both sidesà.
I believe that the high slot mod to block scanning is the better answer. ItÆs fair for both sides, easy to implement, and is in the best tradition of Eve in that every tactic has a counter.
It also ends the ôexploitö argument. Yes, suicide gankers will still be able to kill whomever they can, for whatever reason they wish. However, they will not be guaranteed a profit, and may not even cover their losses (unless of course they have inside information from a spy etc).
Guy
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dennyreborn
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Posted - 2006.10.17 05:08:00 -
[74]
1. use a trasnport ship.
2. have a 1 in corp battleship escourt. (surely your not such a dork that one friend is not unfindable for when youg ot to haul 200mil + of stuff)
if you get ganked in a tanked transport ship. use your battleship to blow anyone up trying to loot from the can. while the trasnport pilot gets another ship to get contents to nearest base for refit.
if the gank fleet is such a size that even after haveing been concorded that they could take out your battleship then simply pop the can with your battleship and be happy in that you have denied the would be gank squad a single isk of profit among considerably loses needed to take down a tanked transport ship.
you will find if you get a reputation for preventing gankers from getting a single isk of profit they will look for someone else to gank.
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thatguyinpc
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Posted - 2006.10.17 05:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: dennyreborn
1. use a trasnport ship.
2. have a 1 in corp battleship escourt. (surely your not such a dork that one friend is not unfindable for when youg ot to haul 200mil + of stuff)
if you get ganked in a tanked transport ship. use your battleship to blow anyone up trying to loot from the can. while the trasnport pilot gets another ship to get contents to nearest base for refit.
if the gank fleet is such a size that even after haveing been concorded that they could take out your battleship then simply pop the can with your battleship and be happy in that you have denied the would be gank squad a single isk of profit among considerably loses needed to take down a tanked transport ship.
you will find if you get a reputation for preventing gankers from getting a single isk of profit they will look for someone else to gank.
Your right that worksà unless of course the gankers are smart enough to have someone standing by in say a velator (starter ship) to switch the goods over to another can they just dropped, so the only kill rights the battleship gets are on a velatorà.
Yep, a high slot mod that blocks scanning is looking better and better.
Guy
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Spenz
Gallente
Empire POS Experiment
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Posted - 2006.10.17 05:56:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Spenz on 17/10/2006 05:56:58
I lost a 550 mil item to a suicide ganker in .6 space due to lag (believe it or not). Was in a nice Taranis with inty 4 and 3 local hull nanofibers. It just plain sucks when you lose something so valuable to something you cannot control.
On that note I think suicide ganking is the easiest isk-maker you can find. I mean looking at the killmail, the person must have alot of isk if they are willing to lose a T2 fitted geddon to concord just to kill a taranis that *COULD* have gotten away.
It happens, but I still dont believe that it should in some cases (trial accounts esp.). You could argue that mission-running is no risk, but the payment involved is so pitiful in comparison to empire ganking that it is actually a grind. You can make in 1 good empire gank what would take dozens of missions and dozens of hours to do. I mean one 30 second encounter making hours worth of isk at the loss of a ship you KNOW you will be able to replace and a pitiful amount of sec you can easily gain back chaining a 0.0 spawn for 15 minutes.
Doesnt seem that fair to me. Then again there are alot of ppl here that depend on it not being fair.
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Flitz Farseeker
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.17 08:15:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Flitz Farseeker on 17/10/2006 08:15:59
Might be a bit tough on noobs but why not just limit starter accounts to frigates. That would make it more difficult to suicide gank a well set up indy witha disposable alt on a trial account. Admittedly it won't stop griefers with paid accounts.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.17 10:14:00 -
[78]
It's not an exploit in any way, shape or form. If your carrying valuable cargo, spend a few quid and get a t2 hauler with massive tank or anano's n stabs, use bm's, use a scout, use your brain basically.
I actually look over my shoulder more in empire than i do in 0.0 (hugs lawless space) , whenever i carry something worth gettin ganked for, i always take precautions. Had a few attempts done on me, like rainwater off my shields before i hammered into warp.
Bottom line, stop being a lazy, tight whiner, adapt or die (ingame of course)
Iron and G eat babie's, my views are my own and do not reflect my corp or my alliance |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.17 10:38:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Farscape Hw
...
its not an exploit so stop your *****ing
its just something fun to do :)
That makes it griefing.
Cruise missile kestrels were nerfed by CCP just to stop this type of griefing.
Suicide ganks in hi-sec have no risk with high reward, show me the risk and I'll stfu!
Can I attack a suicide ganker before he pops my hauler: NO
Can I protect/save my hauler before it gets popped by the massive alpha-dmg put out by suiciders: NO
Can I retaliate against the suiciders by declaring war: NO
Can I claim my cargo back by destroying the looters: NO
Is the time and money investment done by the freighter or T2 hauler pilot equal or lower than the efford the suicide ganker puts out: NO
Hi-sec and low-sec has too much attackers advantage, while 0.0 has too much defenders advantage... with lil to no risk involved, it is killing the game in the long run!
I went to 0.0 straight away when I started the game, I wanted to challange and be challanged, test my skills in pvp against other intelligent opponents. Pvp is meant to be fun for both sides (even if you're ratting and get ambushed by hostiles you have your choices), suicide ganking is not pvp, it is griefing.
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:29:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Too Kind on 17/10/2006 11:36:52
Just remove this disposable alt stuff, like remove the ability of trial accounts to attack in high-sec or if you want to give them a chance to try ot pvp in high sec, then limit where they can do it.
And for payed accounts: Maybe don't allow chars with a negative sec. rating to be deleted (at least for some weeks).
Besides that I think suicide ganking is a ligitimate tactics. Eve is also about non-consentual pvp and often you use the weakness of your opponent to your advantage. It doesn't matter, if your opponent always feels comfortable and enjoys each pvp engangement. It's his job to take care of himself in EVE.
The EVE world is harsh, but noone can force me to play a victim or sheep. It's all up to me and my behaviour. And I have chosen not to be play a chanceless sheep/victim/juicy target ! And so I am not ! Isn't it cool ? Maybe that's it what makes EVE so attractive to me. I like to have control and in EVE I have all the power to control my own destiny. The most evil person can't stop me ! They can try, mabe slow me down sometimes, but in the end I'm still there and still strong ! ( ... laughing about my own post now)
--------------------------
Post with your main !!!111 |
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Das Yad
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:52:00 -
[81]
bleh,
Do muggers get instagibbed irl?
Do people call muggers exploiters?
Do people get mugged in "Safe" places?
Do people get killrights irl if they get mugged?
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Filuren
Eldaria Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:07:00 -
[82]
From the Player Guide Tips and Tricks section:
--snip--
* Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses. Like in the real world, law enforcers often arrive too late at the scene of the crime, and even though they able to punish the criminal, they can't always prevent the crime.
--snip--
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente
MC Cubed Inc
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:30:00 -
[83]
Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Unbelievable.... MORE whining about fairness.... WHEN will people EVER get that life ISNT fair?? Course it's unfair, course its not nice, course it sucks and should be punished. DUH! But that's real-world thinking and small-town morality, while this, is a game. A virtual world where people can release their true nature with impunity. Noone is fined, noone is jailed, noone gets lashes or a lynching. The closest thing to an actual punishment would be an IP-ban, but that can be circumvented in literally minutes with simple IP-spoof tools available freely on the net.
This is what we are as a species, life with it.
I honestly believe that one could set up a fund for "poor underprivileged grief victims", and pull in just as much as those funds for the "poor underprivileged african kids". In fact, I'm surprised noone's used that as a scam yet. With some of the insipid behaviour I've seen in this game, I am truly amazed that noone has stooped that low.
Frankly IMHO it's just a matter of time, really... Maybe this post will give someone the idea and then I'll be the evil grieferdevilpirate behind the whole thing. Have fun flaming me if it makes you feel better.
Now Vors, while I applaud your valiant attempt to bring justice to this issue by doing nothing about it and whining like a little eco-warrior floating his little dingy in the way of global commerce and complaining the half million ton tanker ignored and almost hit his 40 pound inflatable raft, I would suggest you stop your childish campaign for fairness, and get proactive.
If you dont want to lose your ship, dont fly paperweights. Use freighters, use escorts, use scouts, use teamspeak. If you run through space that falls under a faction, bribe the faction. Instas, safespots, cloaks and coordinated movement will get you wherever you want to go. If specific people hassle you, study them. Find out their daily log patterns, and move your stuff when they're offline.
In short : get your act together and stop whining.
my 2cents
That's one of the best posts I read on this forum so far!
It's evil, but I couldn't stop loving!
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Bing Lee
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Posted - 2006.10.17 14:29:00 -
[84]
An easy solution CCP could do is stop paying out insurance claims on kills by CONCORD.
Obviously you did something wrong to get blown up in the first place, so you should also wear the cost of losing your ship.
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Keleth
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Posted - 2006.10.17 15:57:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Vors
Wow, not a SINGLE person refuted ANYTHING I said, most of the replies are the unbeleivably stupid "Gee, don't get killed" variety. Thanks, how helpfull. Some said I was wrong, but no reason as to why. All in all, not a single helpfull reply.
Yes, EVE is about risk. Duh. So then why do these suicide gankers have NO RISK at all, but they gain a lot? Why are the haulers at risk but not the gankers? To gain without risk by abusing the rules is an exploit. This ain't about a noob complaining about losing his hauler (I'm no noob, and I'm no stranger to losing stuff) This is about people taking advantage of a loophole to gain without risk. Duh.
Yes, you were refuted, quite thoroughly. The suicide gankers will lose their ships. That's their risk. They may lose their ships for nothing, for a number of causes. The high-payout cargo they ganked you to get may get destroyed in the ship explosion. You may have friends nearby to scoop up the cargo before they can. They may screw up the planning of the gank and get Concordoken before they kill you.
You're not safe anywhere. Deal with it, and welcome to Eve.
Keleth
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.17 17:05:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Das Yad
Originally by: Das Yad
Do muggers get instagibbed irl?
Why yes they do when they try to mugg someone in from of the police.
Originally by: Das Yad
Do people call muggers exploiters?
Well, this was a waste typing.
Originally by: Das Yad
Do people get mugged in "Safe" places?
Yes, but not often, and the mugger does not get to have a friend pick up the swag after they are arrested.
Originally by: Das Yad
Do people get killrights irl if they get mugged?
Well, yes, since killing in eve does not do permanate damage , kill rights are just like a citizen arrest (less actually) which is legal in most countries.
So basically, you dont have a clue and trying to match a game to RL did not work for you.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.17 17:12:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Keleth
Yes, you were refuted, quite thoroughly. The suicide gankers will lose their ships. That's their risk. They may lose their ships for nothing, for a number of causes. The high-payout cargo they ganked you to get may get destroyed in the ship explosion. You may have friends nearby to scoop up the cargo before they can. They may screw up the planning of the gank and get Concordoken before they kill you.
Lets see, they may loose thier fully insured ships. What was the loss again?
They may destroy the the cargo. What was that loss again?
They may not get to the cargo first. What was that loss again?
Some one will have killrights on them for a short time. What was the loss again?
Get the point. They dont have any loss in this. The worst that happens is that they get paid insurance and have to try again.
This is not risk vs reward. This is abusing game mechanics, which CCP supports as an indirect effort to force players out of high sec, with little or no risk. The rewards when they happen are great but the risk is next to nothing.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.17 19:39:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Naran Darkmood
Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Unbelievable.... MORE whining about fairness.... WHEN will people EVER get that life ISNT fair?? Course it's unfair, course its not nice, course it sucks and should be punished. DUH! But that's real-world thinking and small-town morality, while this, is a game. A virtual world where people can release their true nature with impunity. Noone is fined, noone is jailed, noone gets lashes or a lynching. The closest thing to an actual punishment would be an IP-ban, but that can be circumvented in literally minutes with simple IP-spoof tools available freely on the net.
This is what we are as a species, live with it.
I honestly believe that one could set up a fund for "poor underprivileged grief victims", and pull in just as much as those funds for the "poor underprivileged african kids". In fact, I'm surprised noone's used that as a scam yet. With some of the insipid behaviour I've seen in this game, I am truly amazed that noone has stooped that low.
Frankly IMHO it's just a matter of time, really... Maybe this post will give someone the idea and then I'll be the evil grieferdevilpirate behind the whole thing. Have fun flaming me if it makes you feel better.
Now Vors, while I applaud your valiant attempt to bring justice to this issue by doing nothing about it and whining like a little eco-warrior floating his little dingy in the way of global commerce and complaining the half million ton tanker ignored and almost hit his 40 pound inflatable raft, I would suggest you stop your childish campaign for fairness, and get proactive.
If you dont want to lose your ship, dont fly paperweights. Use freighters, use escorts, use scouts, use teamspeak. If you run through space that falls under a faction, bribe the faction. Instas, safespots, cloaks and coordinated movement will get you wherever you want to go. If specific people hassle you, study them. Find out their daily log patterns, and move your stuff when they're offline.
In short : get your act together and stop whining.
my 2cents
That's one of the best posts I read on this forum so far!
It's evil, but I couldn't stop loving!
ME?? EVIL???
Oh, you DONE it now. 
You can't call me EVIL, that's not FAIR! I'll SUE! I'll PETITION!
I dont see myself as evil, I just don't happen to have a lot of patience for socialist thinking.
Besides, if you filter all the pasive agressive behaviour out of some of the more regular posters' reactions to these Pro-Fairness whines, you'll see it's all been said before.
But thanks for the props mate *bows* Always nice to hear!
Headline one-liners:
Suicidal Teen Kills Twin By Mistake!
(My sig left after Eldo called her fat)
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.17 19:45:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
....hmmm
Ever had a puppy?
Headline one-liners:
Suicidal Teen Kills Twin By Mistake!
(My sig left after Eldo called her fat)
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Ixianus
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Posted - 2006.10.17 19:48:00 -
[90]
Every single one of these posts i see the same old tired responces. If this were reality, the police would eventually find a solution to the same crap happening over and over and over and over and over and over. Even given that simple realistic truth, its still a problem and it needs addressed. You wouldnt expect to see trucks get jumped and blown up daily outside your appartment, why is this any different.
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M4sterm1nd
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.17 19:56:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ixianus
Every single one of these posts i see the same old tired responces. If this were reality, the police would eventually find a solution to the same crap happening over and over and over and over and over and over. Even given that simple realistic truth, its still a problem and it needs addressed. You wouldnt expect to see trucks get jumped and blown up daily outside your appartment, why is this any different.
Huh, go figure. Does Fallujah fit into this delusion too, or don't you know where that is?
Be careful how you use the word "truth", unless you happen to have a few gallons of KoolAid handy.
Headline one-liners:
Suicidal Teen Kills Twin By Mistake!
(My sig left after Eldo called her fat)
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.10.17 20:16:00 -
[92]
Problem is not ganking itself. Problem is ganking from trial accounts.
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Boukharine
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.17 21:24:00 -
[93]
I suspect this has been suggested before but... why not just give ownership of the can dropped on ship destruction back to the victim ? That way the victim's corp would have kill rights on whoever comes to pick up the loot - an alert interceptor pilot would soon get it back. It would only happen if you have kill rights on the suicide gankers (not stupidly killed by NPCs for instance , or tried to fight back)
High sec pirate's ships would be at risk the way back - so it becomes a balanced high risk / high reward activity.
Oh , and I don't see why cargo scanning should be hostile. Myself , I cargo scanned lots of ships early in the game out of curiosity  but some methodical trading corps may use it to anticipate price fluctuations , and pirate intel auxiliary is a valid job.
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thatguyinpc
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Posted - 2006.10.17 22:41:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Zixxa
Problem is not ganking itself. Problem is ganking from trial accounts.
While the trial accounts are certainly a part of this issue, the root of the problem is a skewed risk/reward.
Thus the need for a high slot mod that blocks scanning.
Guy
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Dalseta Volitare
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Posted - 2006.10.17 23:03:00 -
[95]
"you can be popped ANYWHERE ANYTIME by ANYONE with no warning"
Welcome to eve. Deal with it.
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Ixianus
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Posted - 2006.10.17 23:06:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Ixianus on 17/10/2006 23:15:57
Quote:
Huh, go figure. Does Fallujah fit into this delusion too, or don't you know where that is?
Thats cute, cause you know, we dont have low sec for all our insurgent needs.
Sitting in my appartment, in the middle of the city, with police patrols and the like all over, i have yet to see one truck jumped and bombed. There should be some tangible downside to suicide ganking, other than the hundreds of crew killed on every ship thats ganked... Its completely unrealistic. How many pod pilots have went through the years of training, only to gank a few people at a gate and commit suicide, ie character deletion. Security impact should affect the main character, insurance should not be paid out, or some other solution.
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Sir Bart
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Posted - 2006.10.18 00:15:00 -
[97]
I agree, they should and probably will fix this eventually.
For those people saying this isn't an exploit, you're right it's not but ccp doesn't want people ganking people in jita and so it should be fixed. Problem is that people are very resourceful and find ways to do things you don't want them doing.
(remember when a corp was sniping in empire and had people armor repairing him so he could beat concord? They fixed that, they will fix this too)
-Sir Bart
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Jiano Hito
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Posted - 2006.10.18 00:36:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Sir Bart
I agree, they should and probably will fix this eventually.
For those people saying this isn't an exploit, you're right it's not but ccp doesn't want people ganking people in jita and so it should be fixed. Problem is that people are very resourceful and find ways to do things you don't want them doing.
(remember when a corp was sniping in empire and had people armor repairing him so he could beat concord? They fixed that, they will fix this too)
-Sir Bart
Where has CCP said that they don't want ganking in Jita? Some anti-gank people seem to be pulling their "facts" out their backside.
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heidrun
Caelli-Merced
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Posted - 2006.10.18 01:55:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Dalseta Volitare
"you can be popped ANYWHERE ANYTIME by ANYONE with no warning"
Welcome to eve. Deal with it.
mommy mommy look what he says about daddys hauler
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.18 02:05:00 -
[100]
zzzzz we've been through this before.
The answer is no.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.18 02:10:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Cipher7
zzzzz we've been through this before.
The answer is no.
Cipher, where is the risk vs reward. Sucide gankers dont risk anything but they at times get fantastic rewards. And the present way the game mechanics support this is ok why?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Jiano Hito
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Posted - 2006.10.18 02:18:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Cipher7
zzzzz we've been through this before.
The answer is no.
Cipher, where is the risk vs reward. Sucide gankers dont risk anything but they at times get fantastic rewards. And the present way the game mechanics support this is ok why?
Level 4 high sec missions.
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oodin
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2006.10.18 10:07:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Jiano Hito
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Cipher7
zzzzz we've been through this before.
The answer is no.
Cipher, where is the risk vs reward. Sucide gankers dont risk anything but they at times get fantastic rewards. And the present way the game mechanics support this is ok why?
Level 4 high sec missions.
so very true.should be impossible living in a 1.0 system killing hundreds of npc bs. 0.5-1.0 frig npcs/0.4-0.1 cruiser npc/0.0-well you can guess where im going
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Teri's Sister
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Posted - 2006.10.18 14:05:00 -
[104]
I love Vors, what can I say. *hug*
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.21 13:36:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 21/10/2006 13:36:06
[EA]Woebringer: How do CCP feel about the current trend of highsec suicide-ganking. Are there any plans to remove insurance payouts on ships involved in crimes?
Oveur: it's not a new trend, it's always been around
Oveur: also, removing insurance payout would really help this alot, it would certainly increase the lower end of what you select as a target
Oveur: but with people flying around with 100s of millions of ISK, it'll be profitable, insurance payout or not
Oveur: so far it's been a part of EVE, as long as you take the consequences
Oveur: if you're recycling alts or trial accounts though, to bypass the consequences, we'll ban those and your mains
Oveur: with much pleasure, i might add
Notice the last phrases.
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Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
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Posted - 2006.10.21 15:15:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 21/10/2006 13:36:06
[EA]Woebringer: How do CCP feel about the current trend of highsec suicide-ganking. Are there any plans to remove insurance payouts on ships involved in crimes?
Oveur: it's not a new trend, it's always been around
Oveur: also, removing insurance payout would really help this alot, it would certainly increase the lower end of what you select as a target
Oveur: but with people flying around with 100s of millions of ISK, it'll be profitable, insurance payout or not
Oveur: so far it's been a part of EVE, as long as you take the consequences
Oveur: if you're recycling alts or trial accounts though, to bypass the consequences, we'll ban those and your mains
Oveur: with much pleasure, i might add
Notice the last phrases.
Just when I thought "Hey, that suicide ganker thread got off the page and has stayed off, sweet!" Bah.
But yeah, it seems the devs don't really think of it as an exploit. Otherwise they would have made it so you couldn't shoot ANYTHING in high sec, and not just get (almost)instapwned.
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Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc
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Posted - 2006.10.21 15:25:00 -
[107]
the only flaw in the suicideganking is that you actually is getting your insurance for your criminal act.
Insurance should be made 0 if you engange into something illegal.
So you get 0 from suicide ganking... that is .. apart from whatever the hauler is having in his cargo ofcourse.
That way suicide ganking in a Battleship will cost you 100 mill + equipment not 60 mill + equipment...
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
Alyssa Sears
Fuuka Gakuen
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Posted - 2006.10.21 15:32:00 -
[108]
If you're going to introduce a scan-blocker module, there's no way it should be a high slot item. Otherwise, it would make scanners 100% useless since I doubt anyone hauling stuff through Empire has any other uses for their high slots. Make it a low slot item, so at least people would have to give up an expander/overdrive/stab or whatever.
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Ryan Scouse'UK
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Posted - 2006.10.21 15:53:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Ryan Scouse''UK on 21/10/2006 15:53:42
I Think there is nothing wrong with this really , after all pirates are pirates so why would they not want to gank in high sec along side police? It adds more fun to the game. U know there are Tech II Ships with better armour , Bms & such that will stop this happenin to ur transport ship , Its also hard work for the pirates to work out how much ur cargo is worth & thus worth the attack :)
Carebeare mission runner / miner ganker =P
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