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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.12 18:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm mixed on this topic.
Attribute implants make up a decent part of the eve market. I'm not sure just ripping it out is a good idea. Would all the attribute implants I own just vanish with no reimbursment?
But there is definitely a problem with people not wanting to go into null sec because of bubbles.
What if you could warp your pod out of a bubble? The risk in null sec would be the same as the risk in low sec/high sec.
It seems less drastic than making all these implants go out of existance and changing several others that include this bonus.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.12 23:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Cearain wrote:I'm mixed on this topic.
Attribute implants make up a decent part of the eve market. I'm not sure just ripping it out is a good idea. Would all the attribute implants I own just vanish with no reimbursment?
But there is definitely a problem with people not wanting to go into null sec because of bubbles.
What if you could warp your pod out of a bubble? The risk in null sec would be the same as the risk in low sec/high sec. Pods would make nearly unstoppable scouts - probably not a good thing.
Aren't cov ops already nearly unstoppable? With the ability to cloak and scan they would still seem to be a better choice than a pod.
Comparing that to increasing everyone's attributes by 5 points, taking valuable assets from players with no reimbursment, and demolishing what is left of already almost useless lp stores, it seems a relatively minor disadvantage.
Plus allowing pods to warp out of bubbles would lead to more people buying implants and actually make the economy more robust instead of eliminating a large part of it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
It seems a very disruptive way to accomodate the fact that bubbles in null sec catch pods.
I think if you want to lessen the impact of null sec bubbles then lessen the impact of them and let pods out. Until I see what the big deal is with that, I am not sure changing this core part of the game is the best way to accompish the end result.
Instead of changing the mechanic that is causing the trouble this proposal rewrites a whole swath of the game, by giving everyone faster learning (which was already buffed with the loss of learning skills), gives the already suffering lp stores another kick in the crotch - likely just killing them off, and takes valuable assets from players without reimbursement, eliminating a considerable part of the market.
Changing the game around for *everyone* to mitigate a very narrow problem seems a bit like having the tail wag the dog.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
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Posted - 2011.12.20 16:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quote:Say guys, if there was a shorter, 4h or something, timer for clone jumping within the same station, would it solve the issue with wrong hardwiring + learning implants?
If you're going down that route, you might as well allow implants to be plugged out without being destroyed. Jumpclones were meant to be as a means of travel to save pilots the excruciating 50 jumps back to empire, not as implant switching method.
Do you have a source for this claim?
Anway what does it matter what the original intent was? I'm sure many things in this game work out ok even if they are not used as intended.
edit: this seems like a less disruptive option than simply removing all learning implants from the game. If the only objection to it was the functional fixedness one expressed above then I think it would be a contender. Sadly I think there are other problems with reducing the timer to 4 hours.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
111
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Posted - 2011.12.27 19:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
The underlying problem with implants in this game is pod killing/saving mechanics are stupid.
In empire killing/saving a pod is a matter of how good your internet connection is. In null sec/wh its just a matter of whether there is a bubble or not.
In either case there is no real game play or skill involved in saving/killing a pod. Yet allot hangs in the balance!
This proposal has some merit because it makes it so there can't be as much hanging in the balance of this terrible mechanic.
A better solution would be for ccp to make pod killing/saving mechanics better.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
233
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Posted - 2012.01.20 17:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:I am sure that quite a lot of people here disagree with the proposal just because a goon posted it- so they think there simply has to be some secret, evil agenda behind it.
Funny, how far this hatred can go.
I'm sure quite a lot of people here will ignore all the downsides that have been clearly pointed out to this proposal, and think people who don't like the proposal must just have something against the goons.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
233
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Posted - 2012.01.20 19:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Obvious goonswarm testicle troll is obvious.
Obvious Mittani link is obvious.
Nobody cares what you think. Now what a kind person you are... Maybe I wouldn't care about my opinion, too, if I were you. But I do care about the proposal, because I think it is a very good idea and would help me- a desperate carebear that got stuck in highsec forever- a great deal to have more fun in eve.
Seriously if you can't have your skills training at less than the absolute optimal for a 24 hour time period of jump cloning you are a bit too obsessive compulsive to be doing pvp anyway. You need to loosen your grip if you want to have fun pvping in eve and based on your attitude toward skill training you are way too uptight. Things don't always go exactly as you would like.
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
The main argument people are posting here is: evil 0.0 alliances would profit from it (true. everybody would profit), so I am against it. They would rather see that nobody gets such a nice benefit, since the mere idea that their hated archenemies would get the same benefit is just unbearable for them. ...
Among others you forgot the argument that there are trillions of isk in learning implants going into the eve economy. Erasing that from the economy will all but kill every lp market in eve. Sorry there is no reason to kill a large part of the game in order to cater to the crowd that is ridiculously uptight about learning.
Also if you would like to pvp there are low sec options that do not have bubbles so you can usually warp your pod out.
But nice strawman.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
234
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Posted - 2012.01.20 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Boo mkII wrote:Cearain wrote:I'm sure quite a lot of people here will ignore all the downsides that have been clearly pointed out to this proposal, and think people who don't like the proposal must just have something against the goons. Could you please sum up these downsides ? Because so far, I have read mostly the Risk vs Reward argument. i.e. you play without implants (no risk, no reward) or you play with (risk and reward). But you do not mention the third option : You don't play, so you still get the reward and have no risk. How can that be good for the game ? If a mechanic makes some people prefer not playing, it is a bad mechanic.
Did you know some people prefer not to pvp because they may lose a ship?
So lets use your logic:
Pvp may cause people to lose a ship
Some people prefer not to pvp because they may lose a ship
Therefore pvp is a bad mechanic
Nice lets just make it impossible for players to attack eachother.
Your reasoning is bad.
Downsides:
1) It will kill the already floundering lp stores
2) How exactly is ccp going to reimburse people who paid a tone of isk for learning implants that are now worthless?
3) It will be a huge isk sink that is lost
4) It will be a large area of the market and economy will just all of a sudden stricken. 
Why? Well because people want bubbles to hold pods and others don't want to train a bit slower for 24 hours. Sorry thats not really all that great.
Again just make it so bubbles don't hold pods and your "problem," to the extent there is one, is solved.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
235
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Posted - 2012.01.20 21:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Pretty sure that if they remove learning implants they will likely give us stat boosts to cover the missing +5 to each skill.
Yeah but what about the people who paid isk for the set. Are they going to be treated the same as those who didn't? This proposal seems to do that.
When they removed learning skills they gave the sp back, so people who invested time in the learning skills were reimbursed and those who didn't weren't.
Giving everyone the benefit of something only some paid for is not really more fair than simply taking the benefit away entirely. It just makes the dumb happy.
Might as well give everyone a hundred million skill points. Yay!
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
236
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Posted - 2012.01.21 00:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Boo mkII wrote:Cearain wrote:Your reasoning is bad. No it's not. My point is that people have enough incentive to avoid risks already, and the learning implants are an unnecessary burden. They prevent certain people to participate in some parts of the game, which is bad. Hell, it doesn't even changes anything to the outcome of a fight, since they are not combat-related. What does it change that your target has or hasn't attribute enhancers ? Cearain wrote:Downsides: 1) It will kill the already floundering lp stores 2) How exactly is ccp going to reimburse people who paid a tone of isk for learning implants that are now worthless? 3) It will be a huge isk sink that is lost 4) It will be a large area of the market and economy will just all of a sudden stricken. Why? Well because people want bubbles to hold pods and others don't want to train a bit slower for 24 hours. Sorry thats not really all that great. 1) So the LP store is floundering ? 2) Really ? 3)You have data behind that ? 4) If so, how can this represent a large area of the market ? 5)And why would economy stricken ?  6) The ISK sink will not change : people will still use their LP, which will sink the same amount of ISK. 7)Regarding the reimbursement, I don't care.
I numbered your responses/questions so its easier to track my answers/ responses
1) Yep
2) Really
3) No ccp hasn't realeased but they said they were looking into it in a thread about the lp store tanking
4) By being a large part of the market.
5) I didn't say the economy is would be stricken
6) Not really if the store is broken people will no longer get lp and sink their isk in it.
7) Ok you don't care if items that you bought just suddenly disappear from the game without any reimbursment. Others disagree you shouldn't ignore them.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
245
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Posted - 2012.02.07 10:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Smiling Menace wrote:Think a lot of people are totally missing the point in this thread.
It's not about riskless pvp in null sec. Anyone living in null for longer than 10 minutes will probably be using a jump clone if they don't want to lose implants or have so much isk that they don't care anyway.
This is about removing an unnecessary barrier to new players that will not have jump clones nor the isk to replace implants if they get podded.
All the things mentioned in this thread about people not participating in fleet is usually from newer players that can't afford the losses the bitter vets can.
Anything that makes the game fun for new players can only ever be a good thing.
And before anyone says anything, yes I do live in null and I have not had any implants in over 3 years so I don't run any risk in loosing pods anyway. I couldn't care less about the 2-3 days I could save on learning something by having learning implants. It isn't that important. Playing the game and killing things is.
There used to be corps that allowed people to get free jump clones. Is this no longer the case? Can't null sec alliances let people know how to get free jump clones?
Yeah people who learn about the game actually have advantages over people who remain ignorrant. Do we need to flatten that learning curve? Do we need to dumb down the game for everyone, so we can get more noobs in null sec blobs?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
247
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Posted - 2012.02.07 22:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:
Implants are a significant isk sink.. got any actual cites on that?
Because the reality is....
The reality is in the market order histories. You can see for yourself. Someone posted data earlier in this thread too. It was just ignored.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
266
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Posted - 2012.02.14 14:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:Cearain wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:
Implants are a significant isk sink.. got any actual cites on that?
Because the reality is....
The reality is in the market order histories. You can see for yourself. Someone posted data earlier in this thread too. It was just ignored. Tell you what though, claiming that Implants are a significant part of the EVE economy (do you have any idea how big the EVE economy is ) is a positive claim and as such the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. ...
That last quote is a positive claim that you are making. Do you have a proof that it is true, or is what you say self defeating?
Anyway, you can look up the historys of these items yourself. I did and there are allot of them sold for allot of isk.
Or you can refuse to see if what you say about "reality" is true, and continue to try to talk out of the wrong hole. Its your call.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
347
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Posted - 2012.04.25 17:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Andski wrote:Nathaniel Sandalphon wrote:No way is this supported!! Read all the post to page 10 and I believe all has been said there. The most important thing is: EVE is a risk game, if you don't like it go play WOW or some other crap more suitable to your ***** gameplay style. If you don't want to loose implants then just don't buy them, simple as that. Oh wait...you want to skill faster,well guess what buy an implant!! Goos69 for president  nah...not really but I like his style  tell me more about the risks you take avoiding PvP
Your argument here is a bit hamfisted. Your logic is that anything that involves risk in pvp can prevent pvp and therefore should be removed. That sort of ruins the entire point of the game.
If implants are a particular problem for null sec due to bubbles then make it so null sec bubbles don't hold pods. Thats easy. But don't ruin the game for everyone due to one particular isolated problem.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
353
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Posted - 2012.05.02 13:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Anton Abo wrote:Malcanis wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Iri'yana wrote:Eternal Error wrote:Negative. Implants are there to provide an additional element of risk and choice. Good argument. Plus, implant also serve a an ISK drain on the game economy being only produced and offered by NPC. Get rid of them and CCP will take away your money in just another way or limit you income by botteling up one or two ISK faucets. You don't know what an ISK sink is, do you? Learning implants sourced from the LP store are a considerable ISK sink (12M ISK for a +4, I believe) Not exactly ; The LP store is an ISK sink. The implants are just one of many elements of the store. If you don't buy implants with the LP, you will still use those points for other things, and the sink will remain. And, no, implants are a reward for not taking risk. Hence i support the thread from OP.
The lp store is pretty much dead already due to lots of lp from incursions and the agent quality changes. The implants are a very large part of what is left of it. If you take out that substantial amount of the store without replacing it then the few items left will be swampted and the lp stores will almost certainly be worthless.
That is a big impact on the game.
Now why not allow pods to warp out of bubbles? And then you don't have this problem anymore. I mean shooting bubbled pods is not really that challenging is it? You want to destroy a major part of the game (the lp store) that requires thought and research so you can continue to shoot fish in a barrel. That is about as clear an example of dumbing the game down that I can find.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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